nick64
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Post by nick64 on Feb 17, 2016 23:30:44 GMT -5
And in response to your last paragraph, the fragmentation of the country radio format is certainly an interesting idea, and while it could happen, I don't think it's very likely to happen (it's certainly not imminent), mostly because iHeartMedia (the biggest radio conglomerate) would rather not see it happen, and I don't think most of the country music industry is in favor of it, either. I do see what you mean in your first few paragraphs and I definitely agree that Sam is more pop than country. But I still don't think he would be such a great fit on pop radio either. Yes, pop is very diverse, but pop fans also tend to be very stubborn and many claim to hate anything country. And just from my own experiences, pop listeners just seem to "sense" something country about him, and it turns them off. Yes, on a technical standpoint, his songs are definitely more pop, but to the ears of a pop-exclusive listener, there just seems to be something country in his music. I don't know if it's because of his vocals, lyrics, or production, but it does seem to exist. But yeah, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there. But on to the quoted part now. Unfortunately, I do agree that it probably won't be happening anytime soon, but I am curious about why iHeart might not like it. They would still own the stations, which would each most likely still have relatively large listener bases. They'd just be specialized. And I feel that people in the industry would like it as well. Artists would be happy because more of them would have chances at success, and some of the ones that claim to hate the radio climate could finally release stuff they like more. The labels would also be able to profit more if more artists found success, and having multiple formats clears room on the charts that would allow them to (and the dual release strategy I previously mentioned would be good for them too). My knowledge on the inner workings of the music industry is only moderate, so this questioning is just out of curiosity, not for the sake of argument, just to be clear.
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Post by 43dudleyvillas on Feb 18, 2016 0:26:31 GMT -5
But on to the quoted part now. Unfortunately, I do agree that it probably won't be happening anytime soon, but I am curious about why iHeart might not like it. They would still own the stations, which would each most likely still have relatively large listener bases. They'd just be specialized. Country radio has been able to charge ad rates and court specific types of advertisers on account of its (outdated) image as a multi-generational, family & faith-friendly format, and the ad rates it does charge benefit from the collective audience it picks up. The rates do not increase/decrease in a linear fashion where x amount less audience just means y amount less ad revenue, so it's not like redistributing the audience across several sub-formats means the same amount of ad revenue, just split. Radio stations can effectively charge higher per-listener rates for higher audience levels. A format split would make it very unlikely, especially in the short-term, that any of the country sub-formatted stations would reach country's current audience levels, so the format (and conglomerates like iHeart) would lose out on a good chunk of ad revenue. And given the degree to which radio is supported by local ads, national conglomerates negotiating national ad buys wouldn't make up the shortfall. So considering that radio conglomerates like iHeart and Cumulus are hemorrhaging money at the moment, a format split is simply not something they can afford in the short term (and maybe not in the long term, either). Besides, Cumulus tried to initiate a format split about eighteen months ago with the introduction of the Nash Icons format, which was meant to be the country equivalent to the Adult Top-40/Hot AC format. After a promising start where the Nashville Nash Icons station was actually getting higher ratings than the power-current iHeart station there, the Nash Icons station in Nashville has faded, maybe in part because it never really delivered on its promise to bring the class of '89 and big '90s artists into the mix, at least beyond the ones with Nash Icons record deals. Now, the Cumulus leadership has changed and no one's really talking about the future of Nash Icons as a format. I've said this in another thread but my fundamental disconnect with the "but Sam wouldn't get a lot of pop airplay today" argument is that it makes no sense to me to define music by radio formats when radio formats are decided by suits in corporate boardrooms based on demographic considerations for ad purposes, not musical ones. Sam Hunt gets airplay on country radio these days, Kacey Musgraves does not. That doesn't make Sam Hunt country and Kacey Musgraves not country. It makes country radio not country. Sam Hunt makes music that would have gotten Hot AC and CHR/Pop airplay five to fifteen years ago because that's the kind of pop/contemporary R&B mix that worked there at one time. The fact that that music now plays on the country format is not a sign of country music evolving, it's a sign of country radio playing pop/contemporary R&B. The fact that Sam Hunt came along maybe five or six years too late to break big at pop doesn't make me sympathetic to the idea that he had to land at country because otherwise he had no format. Honestly, Montevallo is hit music and Sam Hunt is a very savvy guy. He would have found his way eventually even without mislabeling his music. If he had lost a few years in the process? Well, Mickey Guyton, Charlie Worsham and others are losing years instead, and it feels more unfair because their blends of country and other genres scan as actual country music. I completely understand that aspect of things... it's a very practical way of seeing this. I'm just not so sure everybody (or even most people) are as aware of the country music business as you or we are in this forum, to have such a well constructed view of this situation as you put in the first part of your post, but I'm sure that applies to a lot of people in here. I absolutely agree that most people are probably not as dialed into the business implications of definitions as we are here or as people are in the country blogosphere. But I also think that for long-time country fans, the term used to mean that we were all linked into a musical tradition and history, so there's a sense of loss as the term "country music" becomes increasingly devoid of meaning in country radio's hands. I guess the second part you presented seems more in line with what I've encountered all over the internet, that those people feel "lied to" and that "turns them off" of music they would otherwise like. That sounds completely reasonable. I guess my point of thinking of it as an "interesting" perspective is that I don't personally associate my connection or liking of music (or art in general) to business... I just like it or dislike as a piece of art that speaks to me above everything. That makes perfect sense. I think what I'm trying to say, though, is that the mislabeling of Sam's music is a case where the business side intrudes on the art, and thereby distracts from the art -- it's impossible to separate the two when we hear a Sam Hunt song on a radio station that was talking up the George Strait farewell concert from last year or the Garth Brooks show in town this week, or the station that just a few years ago was the station you tuned into to hear an Alan Jackson or Reba or Josh Turner song. Damn... it's hard trying to put your thoughts together coherently in a different language just as good as you would in your native language! I hope I make any sense! LOL Not only do you make perfect sense, which is more than I can say for any writing I do in a non-native tongue, but there's a really beautiful fluidity to your English writing. It's really a pleasure to read!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2016 1:30:28 GMT -5
Going to apologize in advance because this is a very long post.. I do see what you mean in your first few paragraphs and I definitely agree that Sam is more pop than country. But I still don't think he would be such a great fit on pop radio either. Yes, pop is very diverse, but pop fans also tend to be very stubborn and many claim to hate anything country. And just from my own experiences, pop listeners just seem to "sense" something country about him, and it turns them off. Yes, on a technical standpoint, his songs are definitely more pop, but to the ears of a pop-exclusive listener, there just seems to be something country in his music. I don't know if it's because of his vocals, lyrics, or production, but it does seem to exist. But yeah, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there. I'm certainly not saying that you and your friends are wrong, but I wonder...would anyone "sense" anything country about Sam Hunt if he had never been marketed as a country artist in the first place (in other words, if he had been marketed as pop when he first came onto the scene)? I think it's possible that the country moniker has influenced (in a subconscious way) how Sam's voice and music sound to country and non-country listeners alike. But of course there's no way to prove this :) Unfortunately, I do agree that it probably won't be happening anytime soon, but I am curious about why iHeart might not like it. They would still own the stations, which would each most likely still have relatively large listener bases. They'd just be specialized. And I feel that people in the industry would like it as well. Artists would be happy because more of them would have chances at success, and some of the ones that claim to hate the radio climate could finally release stuff they like more. The labels would also be able to profit more if more artists found success, and having multiple formats clears room on the charts that would allow them to (and the dual release strategy I previously mentioned would be good for them too). My knowledge on the inner workings of the music industry is only moderate, so this questioning is just out of curiosity, not for the sake of argument, just to be clear. I don't know all the reasons for the opposition (I certainly don't have extensive knowledge on the inner workings of the music industry either), but I have done some research. I'll get to that in the paragraphs below, but to put things simply, resisting a fragmentation of the country radio format is just something I've noticed over the years...it seems that the country industry doesn't want the country radio format to fragment, largely because Music Row and the major radio conglomerates (Cumulus is, or at least was, maybe a bit of an exception) are against it. In 2014, Cumulus partnered with Big Machine to form a Nash Icon imprint under the Big Machine Label Group umbrella, and several Cumulus country stations started branding themselves as "Nash Icon" stations (most Cumulus country stations are branded as "Nash FM", however, and they all play current/recent country music). The Nash Icon-branded stations still play some current music (especially from artists like Reba McEntire and Ronnie Dunn, who signed to BMLG's Nash Icon imprint) but the bulk of their playlists consist of popular Gold hits (think Garth, George, Alan, Faith, Trisha, etc) from the 1990's and 2000's, with a few 80's hits sprinkled in as well. Some people (including some of us here at Pulse) wondered if that might be the start of the country format fragmenting, but it never really got going. I mean, Cumulus still has some Nash Icon stations but iHeartMedia never bought in (to the idea of fragmenting), and what little momentum that Cumulus' "movement" had fizzled out pretty quickly. There has been discussion (on fragmentation) before, and even some attempts, but nothing has ever taken. I found an old Billboard issue dated January 22, 2000, that talked a bit about fragmentation with respect to the country radio format. (Note: the four short paragraphs below can be found on page 112 at this link). The following is from a 2008 Edison Research write-up, in which the author (Sean Ross) was more in favor of the country radio format fragmenting. I'd encourage reading the comments at the link, too. There are some great and/or interesting comments from Gregg Swedberg (PD/OM of iHeartMedia's KEEY-FM in Minneapolis), Jaye Albright (a major country radio consultant), RJ Curtis (current editor for AllAccess' country page), and others. Lastly, here's another piece written by Sean Ross in 2014, and published by Billboard. This piece addresses Cumulus' Nash Icon format (which I talked about way at the top of this post). This is a much longer piece, but it's packed with great info, and Sean does a really great job of expounding and adding to what he wrote back in 2008 for Edison Research. I find the idea of fragmentation to be fascinating (haven't decided if I'm for or against, but I'm leaning towards "for"), but Music Row, iHeartMedia, and pretty much the entire country music industry seems to be against it. They've both privately and publicly resisted fragmentation. In short, I think that one of the big things that has kept country radio from fragmenting is the fact that the country industry always prides itself on being more of a 'community' as compared to other genres/formats. Because of this whole community aspect, it's basically as if all the major decision-makers are on the same page (against fragmentation) and anybody who speaks in favor of fragmentation gets shut down pretty quickly, because their opinions/views are such a minority that they never gain any traction. I almost wonder if country radio would have fragmented naturally if it hadn't been for the Telecommunications Act of 1996 (we can blame Bill Clinton for signing it), which allowed Clear Channel (now iHeartMedia) and others to buy up a ton of radio stations and become huge conglomerates. They have so much control (way too much, in my opinion) when it comes to radio formats, and while they're OK with the Pop format having a lot of sub-genres, they seem to agree with Music Row and country industry insiders that the country radio format is 'healthiest' when it's one big format. Perhaps the biggest factor, as 43dudleyvillas noted in her excellent post just above mine, is that radio stations make most of their money from advertising, and country radio stations can make more money from one big country format than they could from 2-3 fragmented country formats. It's pretty common knowledge that the big radio conglomerates are in debt, and so one of the big reasons that they've resisted a fragmentation of the country format is because they'd lose out on a lot of ad revenue. I've also seen the argument that country radio doesn't have enough cumulative audience to support two different country formats (for the record, I don't really buy this argument, mostly because country radio as it is now is already the most-listened-to radio format in the US, and also because there's such a wide variety of country music styles). I pretty much got way away from Sam Hunt, but to get back to him a bit, I think he would be one of the superstars of a younger country format, along with artists like Luke Bryan, FGL, Thomas Rhett, Cole Swindell, Kelsea Ballerini, etc. And on the flip side, we'd see Kenny Chesney, Tim McGraw, George Strait, Alan Jackson, Keith Urban, Reba McEntire, Miranda Lambert, and others dominate the other country format. And of course plenty of artists could see hits on both radio formats, so long as they made music that could simultaneously appeal to younger demographics and older demographics. Labels and artists could release singles to both formats or only one of the formats. But again, while a fragmenting of the format might make sense to some, for the most part it just doesn't seem feasible to those who are major players in the country music industry.
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Post by The Brazilian Guy 🇧🇷 on Feb 18, 2016 7:14:55 GMT -5
That makes perfect sense. I think what I'm trying to say, though, is that the mislabeling of Sam's music is a case where the business side intrudes on the art, and thereby distracts from the art -- it's impossible to separate the two when we hear a Sam Hunt song on a radio station that was talking up the George Strait farewell concert from last year or the Garth Brooks show in town this week, or the station that just a few years ago was the station you tuned into to hear an Alan Jackson or Reba or Josh Turner song. I totally get what you're saying and it makes total sense for someone with a history of listening to country radio (which I can't say I have unfortunately) to have that mindset and make that connection. I was not really disagreeing with any of your points on your previous post. As much as I love reading other people's perspectives as a learning experience, I just wanted to throw my 2 cents because another poster suggested that seeing country fans accept all kinds of music as country was "sickening" (or something to that effect, i could be paraphrasing here) and I felt that was very offensive way of sharing an opinion. So, instead of fighting I wanted to make a point from my perspective and maybe have a positive effect on those people through a new way of seeing people who might not think like them. Not only do you make perfect sense, which is more than I can say for any writing I do in a non-native tongue, but there's a really beautiful fluidity to your English writing. It's really a pleasure to read! You have no idea how much that means to me. I've been reading this forum from a very young age, when i started taking English classes, but I've always been very self-aware (see that as an euphemism for insecure lol) and always dreaded that other people would make fun or not take me seriously because of an imperfect English. As I grew older and got the chance to live abroad and travel more, I grew in confidence and started being more active on forums I would only read. I really appreciate getting that feedback from a poster like you who I've always like reading to! Thanks!
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trebor
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Post by trebor on Feb 18, 2016 8:45:08 GMT -5
Going to apologize in advance because this is a very long post.. Amazing! Thank you so, so much! :)
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bksouthga
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Post by bksouthga on Feb 19, 2016 0:53:58 GMT -5
There's a lot of interesting discussion on this thread but I haven't seen hardly any on "Make You Miss Me". In fact, I haven't heard the song yet. In fact, I've been hearing "Raised On It" on my radio stations. What's the deal?
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Feb 19, 2016 14:44:41 GMT -5
There's a lot of interesting discussion on this thread but I haven't seen hardly any on "Make You Miss Me". In fact, I haven't heard the song yet. In fact, I've been hearing "Raised On It" on my radio stations. What's the deal? Some stations opted to play "Raised on It" in lieu of adding "Breakup in a Small Town" (likely because that one is probably the least-country sounding singles from the album thus far), but you should be hearing "Make You Miss Me" on radio fairly soon but it's still new and hasn't even been given an adds date yet.
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on Feb 19, 2016 15:20:26 GMT -5
This is actually quite interesting. "Raised On It" got 3 more adds this week and 12 adds overall so far, which is a lot of stations playing an album track. WUBL in Atlanta and WFUS Tampa have both spun "Raised On It" for months now -- I think the Atlanta station might date back to 2014. Other spin leaders include KBEB in Sacramento, KBQI in Albuquerque and WRNX in Springfield.
"Make You Miss Me" has started getting spun this week on two stations (WQYK in Tampa and WHKO in Dayton). "Make You Miss Me" is the song that MCA intends to be the fifth and final single but the radio support from "Raised On It" is certainly showing.
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bksouthga
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Post by bksouthga on Feb 19, 2016 18:15:23 GMT -5
Albany has two country stations: one is iHeart and the other is Nash (Cumulus). I know I've been hearing ROI on iHeart, and only since BUIAST peaked. I will have to keep my ears peeled on the other station to see which they're spinning.
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someguy
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Post by someguy on Feb 20, 2016 0:23:48 GMT -5
Yeah, radio doesn't seem so willing to give up on "Raised On It". It's even approaching the top 40 now. I wonder if MCA will maybe change their mind about the single.
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gardyfan
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Post by gardyfan on Feb 20, 2016 17:22:14 GMT -5
Yep was coming here to post the same as above that my stations here stated playing Raised On It this week.
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justin5545
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Post by justin5545 on Feb 20, 2016 17:58:25 GMT -5
Why in the freaking world is Raised on it climbing Billboard Country AirPlay?
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Colton
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Post by Colton on Feb 20, 2016 17:59:28 GMT -5
i wanna sit on his face
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on Feb 20, 2016 18:02:15 GMT -5
Why in the freaking world is Raised on it climbing Billboard Country AirPlay? Because 12 monitored Mediabase/Billboard panel stations have added it and four of those stations have it in heavy rotation.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2016 2:17:13 GMT -5
Yeah, radio doesn't seem so willing to give up on "Raised On It". It's even approaching the top 40 now. I wonder if MCA will maybe change their mind about the single. I suppose it could happen, but "Make You Miss Me" picked up its first 3 adds this week, although the leading spinner, WHKO out of Dayton, Ohio (45 spins in the last 7 days), is a Mediabase-only station, so I don't think "Make You Miss Me" will chart on Billboard yet. "Raised On It", on the other hand, is up 21 spins at WUBL in Atlanta over the last 7 days (it's up to 66 plays there in the last 7 days, which is moderately high rotation), and it's also still increasing in spins at a number of other stations, most of which are iHeartMedia stations (WBBS Syracuse, KHEY El Paso, WDXB Birmingham, KYRS Corpus Christi, WMIL Milwaukee, etc.) This should be another big hit for Sam. "Raised On It" would have been my choice, and I think that "Single For The Summer" and "Ex To See" are better songs, but this is a good choice too. It'll probably be a bridge between the first and second albums, which I would expect out by the end of the year. Initially I was in favor of "Make You Miss Me" over "Raised On It", but I've been listening to both of them quite a bit lately and now I find myself wishing that "Raised On It" had been chosen instead. I like both songs, but "Raised On It" has such a great spring/summer vibe and it would sound excellent on the radio in the coming months. And it definitely appears that radio wants "Raised On It", although I'm sure they'll turn "Make You Miss Me" into a big hit as well. Anyway, I agree that "Make You Miss Me" makes sense as a sort of sonic bridge between albums (in that it's not as edgy as "Break Up In A Small Town" is), and like you, I also think we'll see the release of Sam's sophomore album toward the end of the year. But if the folks at MCA do change their minds and go with "Raised On It" instead, I certainly won't complain. According to his wikipedia page, "Raised on It" was his first single, peaking at #49 in 2013. Some sources say it was a single that they released independently and was later included on Montevallo. Personally, I'd consider that his debut single if it charted on Billboard. I responded to this back on page 1 (by pointing out that "Raised On It" was a SiriusXM-exclusive single), but I wanted to add to my explanation. In August 2014, "Raised On It" did indeed chart at #49 on the Billboard Hot Country Songs chart (this is noted on Wikipedia), but that was primarily from sales and streams due to the SiriusXM airplay (which does not figure into the Billboard or Mediabase charts). Also, Sam has charted on Hot Country Songs with both "Ex To See" (37) and "Speakers" (40), and again, the reason that they charted is due to sales and streams. Album tracks that are popular enough can chart on the Hot Country Songs chart with little or no airplay at all (from Billboard panel stations). Back to "Raised On It"...it didn't chart on Billboard Country Airplay until the week ending December 20th, 2015, which was the same week that "Break Up In A Small Town" moved into the top 10. "Raised On It" has now spent 10 weeks on Billboard Country Airplay, but it was not released as a single, meaning that this airplay is unsolicited. "Raised On It" really shouldn't be listed as a single on Sam's discography page at Wikipedia, but as sabre14 said on the 1st page of this thread, anybody can edit Wikipedia (I never do though...otherwise I'd move "Raised On It" from the "singles" section to the "other charted songs" section).
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Dustin J.
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Post by Dustin J. on Feb 25, 2016 8:18:38 GMT -5
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maine
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Post by maine on Feb 25, 2016 10:06:38 GMT -5
I would personally love "Single For The Summer".
I added this to my playlist, and I kinda noticed that this song didn't really pop out to me when I listened to the album, and I still get that feeling. "Raised On It" is great, but something about this feels like an era ender, which makes it work as a single.
ETA: lol "Raised On It" just randomly came up on my shuffle
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Post by straitouttanashville on Feb 25, 2016 10:46:05 GMT -5
Another great POP song from Sam Hunt! Can someone help me out and tell me what part, if any, of this song qualifies as country music? I like this song as I do so many of Hunt's songs, but this might be his furthest song from Country he has released to radio. I might have asked this before, but, can an artist release any song no matter how far from country it sounds and if people buy the song or listen to it and the label says it's country then the radio plays it? Does anyone care anymore how much garbage comes out of Nashville now?
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dm2081
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Post by dm2081 on Feb 25, 2016 11:02:33 GMT -5
Another great POP song from Sam Hunt! Can someone help me out and tell me what part, if any, of this song qualifies as country music? I like this song as I do so many of Hunt's songs, but this might be his furthest song from Country he has released to radio. I might have asked this before, b ut, can an artist release any song no matter how far from country it sounds and if people buy the song or listen to it and the label says it's country then the radio plays it? Does anyone care anymore how much garbage comes out of Nashville now? I feel like this has been addressed a hundred thousand times already on these Sam Hunt threads, but I'll take another stab at it. To answer your question, as long as the said artist is on a COUNTRY based label that is being marketed to COUNTRY stations and and as a whole is viewed as a COUNTRY artist, then the artist will be considered a country musician. Some might think Sam sounds more like a Pop artist, and they might be right, but Pop radio won't touch his music because for the most part the industry recognizes Sam as a country artist. If he were on a Pop based label in NY or LA then that perception would probably change, but the reality is Sam is based on a Nashville label. Now for the other part of your question, I'm sure there is a certain line that country radio would prefer artists don't cross. We could easily argue that "Break Up In A Small Town" and "Beautiful Drug" already crossed that line. But if the songs aren't getting bad reviews or bad callout scores, are selling like crazy (especially in Sam's case), then radio basically doesn't have any reason to play it other than pure bias on their parts. Country label, great callout scores, popularity, more radio listeners, and great sales. Country radio would be crazy to not play Sam at this point. He's a super valuable asset and popular artist that Country radio can claim as their own now. Yes, some listeners are probably turned off by Sam's music and will change the dial or quit listening to Country radio all together, but the reality is Sam brings in more listeners than radio probably loses, and the audience numbers really seem to reinforce. His +/- is positive and he's one of the most popular artist of any genre right now, so don't expect Country radio to stop playing him until he receives poor callout scores, slumping sales, or changes labels to a more Pop friendly one.
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phil1996
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Post by phil1996 on Feb 25, 2016 11:43:21 GMT -5
His Instagram bio is currently "New single Make You Miss Me available now"
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Post by straitouttanashville on Feb 25, 2016 13:54:52 GMT -5
Another great POP song from Sam Hunt! Can someone help me out and tell me what part, if any, of this song qualifies as country music? I like this song as I do so many of Hunt's songs, but this might be his furthest song from Country he has released to radio. I might have asked this before, b ut, can an artist release any song no matter how far from country it sounds and if people buy the song or listen to it and the label says it's country then the radio plays it? Does anyone care anymore how much garbage comes out of Nashville now? I feel like this has been addressed a hundred thousand times already on these Sam Hunt threads, but I'll take another stab at it. To answer your question, as long as the said artist is on a COUNTRY based label that is being marketed to COUNTRY stations and and as a whole is viewed as a COUNTRY artist, then the artist will be considered a country musician. Some might think Sam sounds more like a Pop artist, and they might be right, but Pop radio won't touch his music because for the most part the industry recognizes Sam as a country artist. If he were on a Pop based label in NY or LA then that perception would probably change, but the reality is Sam is based on a Nashville label. Now for the other part of your question, I'm sure there is a certain line that country radio would prefer artists don't cross. We could easily argue that "Break Up In A Small Town" and "Beautiful Drug" already crossed that line. But if the songs aren't getting bad reviews or bad callout scores, are selling like crazy (especially in Sam's case), then radio basically doesn't have any reason to play it other than pure bias on their parts. Country label, great callout scores, popularity, more radio listeners, and great sales. Country radio would be crazy to not play Sam at this point. He's a super valuable asset and popular artist that Country radio can claim as their own now. Yes, some listeners are probably turned off by Sam's music and will change the dial or quit listening to Country radio all together, but the reality is Sam brings in more listeners than radio probably loses, and the audience numbers really seem to reinforce. His +/- is positive and he's one of the most popular artist of any genre right now, so don't expect Country radio to stop playing him until he receives poor callout scores, slumping sales, or changes labels to a more Pop friendly one. That seems like a pretty ass-backwards way of looking at the subject. You're basically saying if a Nashville label signed a band like say System Of A Down and people like their music or specific single they chose then country would play it and that song would be a country song. I 100% understand I am in the minority here but that pretty stupid way of suggesting a certian artist or single is "Country" (not saying you're wrong, just seems dumb). I actually love Sam Hunt as an artist for the record, the guy is super talented. I love his entire debut album, I love all the non-single and single songs with my favorite being "Speakers". That said no "right-minded" person can tell me that his music is even a tad bit country (I listen to an argument for "Raised On It"). I think my overall point here is if we all sit back and do nothing and dont voice our opinion Radio or whoever is going to think we are fine with the direction the genre is headed. My whole problem with "Pop" songs on "Country Radio" is not with the songs being played, its what it does to all the great artists who can't get their music played so maybe they follow the trend, and who is to blame them. Look at Thomas Rhett, "Beer With Jesus" was a great song in my opinion but Thomas knew he had to follow the trend to get played so he is a complete sell-out R/B wannabe and again I can't blame him. Artists like Josh Turner or even Josh Thompson can even get a song played. I feel like one of the great artists of our time has been killed by "Country Radio" (Josh Turner) and we might never hear from him again and he is so talented and that is a waste to me. Sorry so long, I think I got that off my back
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dm2081
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Post by dm2081 on Feb 25, 2016 14:03:07 GMT -5
I feel like this has been addressed a hundred thousand times already on these Sam Hunt threads, but I'll take another stab at it. To answer your question, as long as the said artist is on a COUNTRY based label that is being marketed to COUNTRY stations and and as a whole is viewed as a COUNTRY artist, then the artist will be considered a country musician. Some might think Sam sounds more like a Pop artist, and they might be right, but Pop radio won't touch his music because for the most part the industry recognizes Sam as a country artist. If he were on a Pop based label in NY or LA then that perception would probably change, but the reality is Sam is based on a Nashville label. Now for the other part of your question, I'm sure there is a certain line that country radio would prefer artists don't cross. We could easily argue that "Break Up In A Small Town" and "Beautiful Drug" already crossed that line. But if the songs aren't getting bad reviews or bad callout scores, are selling like crazy (especially in Sam's case), then radio basically doesn't have any reason to play it other than pure bias on their parts. Country label, great callout scores, popularity, more radio listeners, and great sales. Country radio would be crazy to not play Sam at this point. He's a super valuable asset and popular artist that Country radio can claim as their own now. Yes, some listeners are probably turned off by Sam's music and will change the dial or quit listening to Country radio all together, but the reality is Sam brings in more listeners than radio probably loses, and the audience numbers really seem to reinforce. His +/- is positive and he's one of the most popular artist of any genre right now, so don't expect Country radio to stop playing him until he receives poor callout scores, slumping sales, or changes labels to a more Pop friendly one. That seems like a pretty ass-backwards way of looking at the subject. You're basically saying if a Nashville label signed a band like say System Of A Down and people like their music or specific single they chose then country would play it and that song would be a country song. I 100% understand I am in the minority here but that pretty stupid way of suggesting a certian artist or single is "Country" (not saying you're wrong, just seems dumb). I actually love Sam Hunt as an artist for the record, the guy is super talented. I love his entire debut album, I love all the non-single and single songs with my favorite being "Speakers". That said no "right-minded" person can tell me that his music is even a tad bit country (I listen to an argument for "Raised On It"). I think my overall point here is if we all sit back and do nothing and dont voice our opinion Radio or whoever is going to think we are fine with the direction the genre is headed. My whole problem with "Pop" songs on "Country Radio" is not with the songs being played, its what it does to all the great artists who can't get their music played so maybe they follow the trend, and who is to blame them. Look at Thomas Rhett, "Beer With Jesus" was a great song in my opinion but Thomas knew he had to follow the trend to get played so he is a complete sell-out R/B wannabe and again I can't blame him. Artists like Josh Turner or even Josh Thompson can even get a song played. I feel like one of the great artists of our time has been killed by "Country Radio" (Josh Turner) and we might never hear from him again and he is so talented and that is a waste to me. Sorry so long, I think I got that off my back Hey I don't necessarily disagree with anything you say, but I was simply trying to sum up why things are the way they are. Country Radio is a business and I think sometimes we forget that here on this board. You certainly have every right to call up your country station and complain, in fact you should if your that upset. Your voice and opinion should matter. But just keep in mind that everyday they get calls/tweets/FB posts/etc. saying how,uch they love Sam Hunt and want to hear his songs. Fortunately we live in a day and age of iPods and Spotify, so really country radio is pretty obsolete IMO.
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Post by Fan Voted Chart on Feb 27, 2016 21:48:33 GMT -5
My apologies. My mistake was in assuming that the peak listed was from airplay in 2013 and that the staff at Wikipedia had verified the sources as a legit single. They will make notes when a song charts because of unsolicited airplay, but hadn't done that for "Raised on It"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2016 2:13:18 GMT -5
My apologies. My mistake was in assuming that the peak listed was from airplay in 2013 and that the staff at Wikipedia had verified the sources as a legit single. They will make notes when a song charts because of unsolicited airplay, but hadn't done that for "Raised on It" No need to apologize! I was simply pointing out that "Raised on It" had only recently charted on the airplay chart. :)
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Post by thesouthbumpking on Feb 28, 2016 22:27:49 GMT -5
The song received 135 spins during the February 21-27 tracking week. In accordance with those spins, the fifth official “Montevallo” single earned enough Mediabase chart points to rank as the country panel’s #61 song.
It was #70 last week.
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maine
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Post by maine on Feb 29, 2016 0:39:37 GMT -5
I guess I'll chime in here on whether he's country or pop: I definitely view Sam more as a country artist than I do pop. Sure, his music isn't traditional country or whatever, but his music, for the most part, is country with a pop tinge. If anything, he'd be more Hot AC oriented than CHR. Even if he were branded as a pop artist from the get go, I would still view him more country based than pop. The reason CHR hasn't latched onto him isn't because he's branded as a country artist, it's because his music doesn't fit pop at all. I could never see his singles being played on CHR, especially in today's climate. The pop climate now is ridiculously hard to break into unless you're purely a pop artist. Country, Alternative, Rhythmic, Urban, literally every other radio genre, barely get pop hits nowadays. It's very rare. Alternative usually has one hit at a time (I say this as an Alternative crossover is #1 lol) and Rhythmic/Urban get very minor hits unless your name is The Weeknd. Active Rock hasn't had a Pop hit since 2010. I can't even think of the last Country song that went Top 10 on Pop. I know how much you guys run on about how his singles, especially "Break Up In A Small Town", should just be sent to CHR, but personally, I still cannot see "Break Up In A Small Town" taking off on pop even though it's more pop geared than country; let alone any of his other singles. Even "Take Your Time" flopped on CHR despite being the biggest overall hit from the album and having great callout scores for the format.
As for this, I think this is the second most country sounding single he's released, behind "House Party". I'd say all but "Break Up In A Small Town" are more country sounding than pop. I know most of you harp on the outside posters that come in here, calling us "pop posters", but this is coming from someone who's from the rock part of the board, but I get around. Just thought I'd put my two cents in.
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bksouthga
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Post by bksouthga on Feb 29, 2016 1:09:18 GMT -5
I guess I'll chime in here on whether he's country or pop: I definitely view Sam more as a country artist than I do pop. Sure, his music isn't traditional country or whatever, but his music, for the most part, is country with a pop tinge. If anything, he'd be more Hot AC oriented than CHR. Even if he were branded as a pop artist from the get go, I would still view him more country based than pop. The reason CHR hasn't latched onto him isn't because he's branded as a country artist, it's because his music doesn't fit pop at all. I could never see his singles being played on CHR, especially in today's climate. The pop climate now is ridiculously hard to break into unless you're purely a pop artist. Country, Alternative, Rhythmic, Urban, literally every other radio genre, barely get pop hits nowadays. It's very rare. Alternative usually has one hit at a time (I say this as an Alternative crossover is #1 lol) and Rhythmic/Urban get very minor hits unless your name is The Weeknd. Active Rock hasn't had a Pop hit since 2010. I can't even think of the last Country song that went Top 10 on Pop. I know how much you guys run on about how his singles, especially "Break Up In A Small Town", should just be sent to CHR, but personally, I still cannot see "Break Up In A Small Town" taking off on pop even though it's more pop geared than country; let alone any of his other singles. Even "Take Your Time" flopped on CHR despite being the biggest overall hit from the album and having great callout scores for the format. As for this, I think this is the second most country sounding single he's released, behind "House Party". I'd say all but "Break Up In A Small Town" are more country sounding than pop. I know most of you harp on the outside posters that come in here, calling us "pop posters", but this is coming from someone who's from the rock part of the board, but I get around. Just thought I'd put my two cents in. I certainly appreciate your perspective. I often find myself in the minority on this forum defending Sam and his music. The thing that a lot of people seem to forget is that country music of every era has always borne the stamp of whatever the pop music of that same era was. There have always been genre-bending artists that have taken country in new directions. Some of the things we view as "traditional" were viewed as anything but at the time. Take the Outlaw Country movement as an example. To quote Hank Williams Jr. "Country music singers have always been a real close family, but lately some of my kinfolk have disowned a few others and me". I realize Hank had some unique family circumstances that caused him to write this but it could be applied to any number of these artists in any era. Also, usually when country makes drastic movements toward whatever is pop, there usually is a corrective movement back towards more traditional material after that. These things go in cycles. Take as an example where country was in the early 80s. You had people like Kenny Rogers, Ronnie Milsap, Exile, Dan Seals, even Alabama, moving in a very pop direction. Along comes George Strait, Randy Travis, Dwight Yoakam correcting in the other direction. Btw I like all of these artists. I like Sam Hunt's music and I think it is very interesting what he is doing applying country sensibilities to the urban R&B type influences he has. Based on where pop is, I think it's entirely natural that country would move in this direction. And I think it won't be too long before we see corrective movement in the other more traditional direction.
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Post by 43dudleyvillas on Feb 29, 2016 8:45:28 GMT -5
I guess I'll chime in here on whether he's country or pop: I definitely view Sam more as a country artist than I do pop. Sure, his music isn't traditional country or whatever, but his music, for the most part, is country with a pop tinge. If anything, he'd be more Hot AC oriented than CHR. Even if he were branded as a pop artist from the get go, I would still view him more country based than pop. The reason CHR hasn't latched onto him isn't because he's branded as a country artist, it's because his music doesn't fit pop at all. I could never see his singles being played on CHR, especially in today's climate. The pop climate now is ridiculously hard to break into unless you're purely a pop artist. Country, Alternative, Rhythmic, Urban, literally every other radio genre, barely get pop hits nowadays. It's very rare. Alternative usually has one hit at a time (I say this as an Alternative crossover is #1 lol) and Rhythmic/Urban get very minor hits unless your name is The Weeknd. Active Rock hasn't had a Pop hit since 2010. I can't even think of the last Country song that went Top 10 on Pop. I know how much you guys run on about how his singles, especially "Break Up In A Small Town", should just be sent to CHR, but personally, I still cannot see "Break Up In A Small Town" taking off on pop even though it's more pop geared than country; let alone any of his other singles. Even "Take Your Time" flopped on CHR despite being the biggest overall hit from the album and having great callout scores for the format. I think your post continues to illustrate that the debate about Sam Hunt comes down to one fundamental issue, and it's not whether people are primarily Top-40 radio listeners or rock radio listeners or country radio listeners. The issue is whether one allows the moving goalposts that are radio formats to condition one's understanding of musical definitions. I'll refer you to the argument that I made on this subject earlier on this page (fourth and fifth paragraphs of the post, if you don't want to read the whole thing) so as not to repeat myself. I certainly appreciate your perspective. I often find myself in the minority on this forum defending Sam and his music. The thing that a lot of people seem to forget is that country music of every era has always borne the stamp of whatever the pop music of that same era was. There have always been genre-bending artists that have taken country in new directions. Some of the things we view as "traditional" were viewed as anything but at the time. Take the Outlaw Country movement as an example. To quote Hank Williams Jr. "Country music singers have always been a real close family, but lately some of my kinfolk have disowned a few others and me". I realize Hank had some unique family circumstances that caused him to write this but it could be applied to any number of these artists in any era. I think that we're also at the point of the discussion when acting like only a select few realize that country has always liberally borrowed from other genres of music is reducing contrary viewpoints on Sam's musical classification to a straw man. For one thing, plenty of us like Sam's music and don't think that describing his music as a pop/contemporary R&B/hip hop blend instead of country is a put-down from which he needs defending. For another, most of us are fully aware of country music's blended roots and evolution. Most of us accept several current boundary-pushers (e.g., Eric Church, Carrie Underwood, Little Big Town) as country. If we draw the line at a point that excludes Sam Hunt, it's because "Leave the Night On" is a dead ringer for the kind of music The Script hit with five or six years ago and because Sam's music in general is in the same space as what Jason Mraz, Matt Nathanson and Mat Kearney have been doing for a while. Mat Kearney's guest appearance on Brad Paisley's Wheelhouse notwithstanding, none of those artists is country either.
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Feb 29, 2016 10:42:47 GMT -5
Fairly or not, I think it's clear the marketplace - both inside and outside of country - identifies Sam Hunt as a "country artist." That's why it kind of bugged me that people were so surprised/angry with him sending "Break Up In A Small Town" to country radio. While it certainly doesn't feature a traditionally country sound, it was a top-selling, recognizable track on an album that was primarily consumed by country fans who largely consider Sam Hunt a country artist. From a commercial perspective, there was no reason to differentiate it as a non-country song.
I don't even think we're at a Taylor Swift half-pop/half-country place with him. His fanbase is a country one, and the aggregate of the music audience recognizes him as country. He has massive name value within that core genre -- and virtually none in pop circles.
I also agree with the aforementioned comment about Sam Hunt being more Hot AC-leaning than pop-leaning. The names mentioned - Mraz, Nathanson, Kearney, etc - are all fair comparisons to "Leave The Night On," and they're Hot AC artists as well.
As for why Sam Hunt and/or his music don't seem to be resonating nearly as well with pop and Hot AC listeners, I think you have the freshness dilemma. In the country world, he's bringing you super-catchy songs, interesting production, and a "swagger" you don't often see within country. He's "cool" and "fresh."
In the pop world, his act is less exciting. The songs borrow pop concepts that are somewhat dated - or least more familiar. He's a good-looking guy and usually gets the "Sam Hunt is hot" Tweets whenever he performs on a mainstream show, but the charisma that seems "slick" within traditional country isn't as notable in pop circles. There's a folksiness about him that speaks to his country roots rather than his pop roots, and that takes away some cool points on mainstream stages. People refer to him as the "country Drake" -- and there's something to that -- but his presence obviously doesn't hold a candle to Drake's.
It's sort of the same thing I notice with Luke Bryan. Luke Bryan's biggest selling point among country fans is his undeniable charisma. He's goofy on stage - but he comes off like a superstar. That doesn't translate as well at mainstream events; you'll usually see dead crowds in those environments. Same with Florida Georgia Line and other supposedly cool, poppy country acts.
It's interesting, because I think it's actually a mistake to feature performers like Luke Bryan and Sam Hunt as the "country ambassadors" at mainstream shows. I actually think a Chris Stapleton (granted, not a perfect example because he's arguably more blues/southern rock than "country") would resonate better precisely because he's different. He brings something pop viewers don't see, as opposed to coming across like a diet version of a pop star.
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rsmatto
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Post by rsmatto on Feb 29, 2016 16:01:32 GMT -5
Officially at radio today with add date of next Monday.
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