14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on Nov 3, 2016 17:02:43 GMT -5
Not nearly as bad of a ratings drop as I expected.
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matty005
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Post by matty005 on Nov 3, 2016 17:10:37 GMT -5
Not nearly as bad of a ratings drop as I expected. Agreed. It just makes me wonder how good the ratings could have been if it wasn't for game 7. The ratings for game 7 were unreal.
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ethanhunt
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Post by ethanhunt on Nov 3, 2016 17:34:08 GMT -5
Humble and Kind winning song of the year is borderline offensive.
Happy for Eric, Maren, and Brothers Osborne's wins the rest I could give or take
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matty005
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Post by matty005 on Nov 3, 2016 17:37:19 GMT -5
Humble and Kind winning song of the year is borderline offensive.Happy for Eric, Maren, and Brothers Osborne's wins the rest I could give or take Can you expand on this?
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ethanhunt
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Post by ethanhunt on Nov 3, 2016 17:41:47 GMT -5
Humble and Kind winning song of the year is borderline offensive.Happy for Eric, Maren, and Brothers Osborne's wins the rest I could give or take Can you expand on this? A song about “oh golly I guess I'm a good person" doesn't really strike me as great songwriting, meanwhile a truly great song like Mr. Misunderstood goes unrecognized
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matty005
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Post by matty005 on Nov 3, 2016 17:47:36 GMT -5
A song about “oh golly I guess I'm a good person" doesn't really strike me as great songwriting, meanwhile a truly great song like Mr. Misunderstood goes unrecognized It's not saying the narrator is a good person, it's reminding people to stay kind. And my goodness, in my opinion, there has never been a better time than right now that our country needs that reminder.
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phil1996
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Post by phil1996 on Nov 3, 2016 18:20:25 GMT -5
Is the show re airing anywhere? I spent yesterday night getting my dreams crushed by the Indians so wasn't able to see. Extremely glad about Album of the Year and Duo of the year
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Ten Pound Hammer
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Post by Ten Pound Hammer on Nov 3, 2016 20:06:27 GMT -5
^ Three letters: DVR. I recorded it because my mom wanted to watch the World Series.
So far the only performance that seemed weak was Kelsea. I like that they're doing so much throwback material. I'm currently at Carrie's performance of Dirty Laundry.
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14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on Nov 3, 2016 20:21:02 GMT -5
Is the show re airing anywhere? I spent yesterday night getting my dreams crushed by the Indians so wasn't able to see. Extremely glad about Album of the Year and Duo of the year ABC is putting it on their website and ABC Go services, I believe.
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Ten Pound Hammer
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Post by Ten Pound Hammer on Nov 3, 2016 20:31:36 GMT -5
Right now I'm watching George Strait sing Trouba-bore. Why does Strait's voice always sound so squeaky live? It's really annoying.
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musicfan134
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Post by musicfan134 on Nov 3, 2016 21:47:28 GMT -5
Not even salty about the Carrie loss for EOTY. Why? Because on the CMA's 100th ceremony, they'll be honoring Carrie like they did Dolly on the 50th regardless of whether she wins EOTY or not.
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carrieidol1
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Post by carrieidol1 on Nov 3, 2016 22:03:13 GMT -5
Not even salty about the Carrie loss for EOTY. Why? Because on the CMA's 100th ceremony, they'll be honoring Carrie like they did Dolly on the 50th regardless of whether she wins EOTY or not. Damn straight. Carrie is leading the charge of the next generation of country icons! I have a hard time accepting the loss mainly because I really thought after 11 years of waiting and not being nominated, it would finally just happen all at once. Nominations for women don't happen often, and wins are super rare. If we were talking about Keith or Kenny, the whole "we'll get em' next year" phrase would apply. When it comes to women, it's a whole different game, and it sucks. Carrie could literally set records and still be overlooked (based on sexism and the political voting process). So I think for Carrie's fans it's a little harder to swallow for that reason, especially when talking about the CMAs. In addition, Carrie is a mother and wife now, eventually things will slow down for her. I think we'll get one more album era and tour before she takes any major breaks from making music, but when EOTY nominations are so few and far between for women, and for Carrie specifically, looking forward to that isn't exactly comforting. And then you can get into voting blocs and how Carrie isn't a part of any major ones, so she has that obstacle up against her too... But that's an entirely different and tired discussion. Thrilled Carrie broke through the bullshit and took back her rightful crown of Female Vocalist of the Year, but it's bittersweet knowing she was way more than just the FVOTY...
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McCreerian
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Post by McCreerian on Nov 3, 2016 22:10:48 GMT -5
Not even salty about the Carrie loss for EOTY. Why? Because on the CMA's 100th ceremony, they'll be honoring Carrie like they did Dolly on the 50th regardless of whether she wins EOTY or not. Damn straight. Carrie is leading the charge of the next generation of country icons! I have a hard time accepting the loss mainly because I really thought after 11 years of waiting and not being nominated, it would finally just happen all at once. Nominations for women don't happen often, and wins are super rare. If we were talking about Keith or Kenny, the whole "we'll get em' next year" phrase would apply. When it comes to women, it's a whole different game, and it sucks. Carrie could literally set records and still be overlooked (based on sexism and the political voting process). So I think for Carrie's fans it's a little harder to swallow for that reason, especially when talking about the CMAs. In addition, Carrie is a mother and wife now, eventually things will slow down for her. I think we'll get one more album era and tour before she takes any major breaks from making music, but when EOTY nominations are so few and far between for women, and for Carrie specifically, looking forward to that isn't exactly comforting. And then you can get into voting blocs and how Carrie isn't a part of any major ones, so she has that obstacle up against her too... But that's an entirely different and tired discussion. Thrilled Carrie broke through the bulls**t and took back her rightful crown of Female Vocalist of the Year, but it's bittersweet knowing she was way more than just the FVOTY... There is no man touring the way Carrie is now. With a stage that takes up the arena floor so much it's standing room only. Then the 3 ring circus on the stage that could only be rivaled by Reba's 1996 tour (I recommend looking it up on Youtube, its there). By the way Reba never won EOTY in the 90s when she was selling 3+ million albums a year at one point and being the first woman to do that kind of massive tour. She won it in 1986 when she was just getting into success enough to tour outside of theaters, which doesn't make sense to me but I don't know how the CMA politics went back then. In 50 years the history of Country's truly groundbreaking women will go Patsy-Loretta-Tammy-Dolly-Reba-Shania-Carrie. Many more wonderful women are in between all those names but those are the giant women in history that will be looked at that way. If Carrie never wins EOTY history will judge the CMA very bad and deservingly so. At least the ACMs gave it to her several years back. And the ACMs were the only one to give it to Reba at the height of her 90s success. Kind of ironic how that goes.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Nov 3, 2016 22:26:36 GMT -5
For anyone who is interested, I made a poll where you can weigh in on what you thought were the best performances of this year's ceremony here: Vote here!
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musicfan134
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Post by musicfan134 on Nov 3, 2016 22:28:15 GMT -5
^I may as well be the one to bring this up.
So from what (admittedly little) I know about the CMAs and the ACMs...the ACMs seem to be a bit more "accurate" with their awards. As in, I feel like the ACMs tend to be a lot better about awarding the artists that deserve the title. So I guess my preference actually tends to sway towards the ACM awards, but my question is, what is the actual industry difference between the two? Is one perceived as "better" than the other?
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carrieidol1
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Post by carrieidol1 on Nov 3, 2016 22:39:53 GMT -5
^^^ I'm sure the politics back then were nothing like they are today. I mean, it's not so much politics today as it is one entity (WME) making up the majority of the voting members. I don't think WME goes out of their way to get the wins, they just happen because everyone and their mother in country music is affiliated with them (minus like five artists). Had the ACMs not switched to fan voting, I don't think Carrie would have won two EOTY trophies, it's possible she wouldn't have won any. I don't mean to take away from the significance of her ACM wins, but it's hard to compare because her ACMs were partially fan voted. If the fans could partially vote at the CMAs, Carrie would have won EOTY no doubt last night..
It's interesting, though, because I think Carrie's early ACM wins have a lot to do with her lack of CMA nominations through the years. At some point I think there was kind of a push against giving Carrie country industry awards, and I think that happened after her second EOTY win at the ACMs. Until now, 2009 (2010 ACMs) was the last year she won a country industry award (CMA/ACM). This happened in conjunction with the rise of WME and Miranda Lambert and Carrie's chances thereafter at any CMA/ACM success all but disappeared. Which then makes last night's FVOTY win and her EOTY nomination so significant. She managed to come back and win a category eight years since her last win (which is the longest winning gap in the FVOTY category). AND she managed a nomination in EOTY - which most thought would never happen. So proud of her, truly, she deserves it all and so much more.
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carrieidol1
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Post by carrieidol1 on Nov 3, 2016 22:48:48 GMT -5
^I may as well be the one to bring this up. So from what (admittedly little) I know about the CMAs and the ACMs...the ACMs seem to be a bit more "accurate" with their awards. As in, I feel like the ACMs tend to be a lot better about awarding the artists that deserve the title. So I guess my preference actually tends to sway towards the ACM awards, but my question is, what is the actual industry difference between the two? Is one perceived as "better" than the other? CMA is looked at as more prestigious; like the Oscars of country. Whereas the ACMs are maybe comparable to the Golden Globes?... That's not the best analogy, but the point is that the CMAs are generally looked at as the more significant one. I think the ACMs have a smaller voting pool, which leaves less room for error... lol.
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desertfloods
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Post by desertfloods on Nov 3, 2016 23:32:10 GMT -5
^I may as well be the one to bring this up. So from what (admittedly little) I know about the CMAs and the ACMs...the ACMs seem to be a bit more "accurate" with their awards. As in, I feel like the ACMs tend to be a lot better about awarding the artists that deserve the title. So I guess my preference actually tends to sway towards the ACM awards, but my question is, what is the actual industry difference between the two? Is one perceived as "better" than the other? CMA is looked at as more prestigious; like the Oscars of country. Whereas the ACMs are maybe comparable to the Golden Globes?... That's not the best analogy, but the point is that the CMAs are generally looked at as the more significant one. I think the ACMs have a smaller voting pool, which leaves less room for error... lol. Technically, a smaller voting pool means even easier (for WME) to influence results though.
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carrieidol1
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Post by carrieidol1 on Nov 4, 2016 9:24:20 GMT -5
CMA is looked at as more prestigious; like the Oscars of country. Whereas the ACMs are maybe comparable to the Golden Globes?... That's not the best analogy, but the point is that the CMAs are generally looked at as the more significant one. I think the ACMs have a smaller voting pool, which leaves less room for error... lol. Technically, a smaller voting pool means even easier (for WME) to influence results though. True. Lately they've been just as political as the CMAs, but historically they've definitely done a better job of recognizing the right artists at the right time.
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seak05
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Post by seak05 on Nov 4, 2016 9:28:32 GMT -5
ACM EOTY was popular vote for a while (hello Taylor Swift fans), but they switched that.....and then gave the award to Aldean, so yeah...........
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seak05
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Post by seak05 on Nov 4, 2016 9:31:01 GMT -5
Also, wait, did somebody really just say that politics used to be better? I mean Nashville was totally inbred (no offense).
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Post by myeverything on Nov 4, 2016 9:31:40 GMT -5
If we were talking about Keith or Kenny, the whole "we'll get em' next year" phrase would apply. Well, us Keith fans could have been saying that for the last 11 years then, too. I totally get what you're saying though, I really do.. But I'm just saying that trust me, it's not any better when they're nominated on a decently regular basis and STILL never come up with any wins. As much as I think Keith should have won/wanted him to win, y'all have made a very good argument/point as to why you think Carrie should have had it too. I will now say that i think BOTH of them deserved it and it was a race between the 2. And now I'm even more mad that Garth won it than I was before, lol. In my opinion and experiences, I think that the CMAs are definitely the most prestigious. Other than the Grammys, of course. I do like that analogy with the Oscars and Golden Globes too though, lol. Y'all don't kill me now for saying this, it's just my two cents.. but I think the fan-voting thing in itself does take away from the credibility of it all. If you have the rabid fans that vote 24/7 then fine, but if you don't, then you're screwed. Just saying. Also, can someone please explain into more detail this WME voting block issue? I know someone mentioned it's a tired topic but I never knew there was such a big problem with it. I did look at the master list of artists when it was posted yesterday and I truthfully was shocked that there were SO many on there. I knew it was a really big company, but y'all are right.. there are only a few ones who really aren't on it; Keith being one of them. It's no freaking wonder he never wins anything
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carrieidol1
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Post by carrieidol1 on Nov 4, 2016 9:47:43 GMT -5
If we were talking about Keith or Kenny, the whole "we'll get em' next year" phrase would apply. Well, us Keith fans could have been saying that for the last 11 years then, too. I totally get what you're saying though, I really do.. But I'm just saying that trust me, it's not any better when they're nominated on a decently regular basis and STILL never come up with any wins. As much as I think Keith should have won/wanted him to win, y'all have made a very good argument/point as to why you think Carrie should have had it too. I will now say that i think BOTH of them deserved it and it was a race between the 2. And now I'm even more mad that Garth won it than I was before, lol. In my opinion and experiences, I think that the CMAs are definitely the most prestigious. Other than the Grammys, of course. I do like that analogy with the Oscars and Golden Globes too though, lol. Y'all don't kill me now for saying this, it's just my two cents.. but I think the fan-voting thing in itself does take away from the credibility of it all. If you have the rabid fans that vote 24/7 then fine, but if you don't, then you're screwed. Just saying. Also, can someone please explain into more detail this WME voting block issue? I know someone mentioned it's a tired topic but I never knew there was such a big problem with it. I did look at the master list of artists when it was posted yesterday and I truthfully was shocked that there were SO many on there. I knew it was a really big company, but y'all are right.. there are only a few ones who really aren't on it; Keith being one of them. It's no freaking wonder he never wins anything I think there are a number of posters who can explain the situation much better than I, but I can at least give you the general synopsis. William Morris Endeavor is an artistic management company or talent agency; I understand this to mean that artists' management is handled by this company and their representatives... In 2009, WME came to prominence after WMA (William Morris Agency) and the Endeavor Agency merged. As you can imagine, they immediately became super powerful because in merging they became the largest talent agency (I believe?), at least in music. So when it comes to voting, if an artist is represented by WME, their chances at a nomination and win are huge just because a massive portion of the votes inherently come from WME and their affiliates.
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desertfloods
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Post by desertfloods on Nov 4, 2016 10:01:48 GMT -5
If we were talking about Keith or Kenny, the whole "we'll get em' next year" phrase would apply. Well, us Keith fans could have been saying that for the last 11 years then, too. I totally get what you're saying though, I really do.. But I'm just saying that trust me, it's not any better when they're nominated on a decently regular basis and STILL never come up with any wins. As much as I think Keith should have won/wanted him to win, y'all have made a very good argument/point as to why you think Carrie should have had it too. I will now say that i think BOTH of them deserved it and it was a race between the 2. And now I'm even more mad that Garth won it than I was before, lol. In my opinion and experiences, I think that the CMAs are definitely the most prestigious. Other than the Grammys, of course. I do like that analogy with the Oscars and Golden Globes too though, lol. Y'all don't kill me now for saying this, it's just my two cents.. but I think the fan-voting thing in itself does take away from the credibility of it all. If you have the rabid fans that vote 24/7 then fine, but if you don't, then you're screwed. Just saying. Also, can someone please explain into more detail this WME voting block issue? I know someone mentioned it's a tired topic but I never knew there was such a big problem with it. I did look at the master list of artists when it was posted yesterday and I truthfully was shocked that there were SO many on there. I knew it was a really big company, but y'all are right.. there are only a few ones who really aren't on it; Keith being one of them. It's no freaking wonder he never wins anything I feel for Keith too, honestly. He's like nicest guy in the world, always supportive of others and smiling and enjoying himself at awards shows.... yet he always leaves empty handed. That's the thing with awards shows, I feel that it's even harder for established artists to get recognized than new artists. Unless you're signed with WME, of course. People always go for the new and take the old for granted.
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seak05
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Post by seak05 on Nov 4, 2016 10:16:24 GMT -5
Ok, it's probably helpful to understand that two voting blocks exist. One is the agencies, and the other is the tour promoters, with each of these, two main players exist, and it's an advantage (But also sometimes a disadvantage) depending on what the companies want to do.
So the two main promo agencies are WME and CAA, within the country music awards circuit WME is more powerful. Nearly all male A list stars are with WME: Luke, Garth, Brad, Blake, Dierks, Chris - except Tim & Keith. The upside is that they help you win awards, the downside is they have to many clients, and they can only push so many for awards. This is where the term graduated comes from. Essentially, they decided to push Dierks for awards this year, because they want him to get to the next level star, over say Blake, whose already won a bunch. For the women, the only big name current woman with WME (in country) is Miranda. Maren, Kelsea, like Carrie are with CAA.
The other voting block is the tour promoters. The two big ones are Live Nation and AEG. Basically everyone is with Live Nation except Carrie and Garth. Live Nation wants to promote its megaticket (if you want to know why Luke would still do megaticket, this is one reason, also Blake doesn't do megaticket bc he stopped doing summer tours). So live nation also needs to create touring stars who can fill amphitheaters and arenas. Right now, they're trying to get Dierks and Chris to that level (also if you want to know why Dierks did so well in nominations this year).
One reason, despite being an outsider that Chris does well is he's with the "right" management. And Garth signed with WME this year, and then won EOTY.
Anyways, other reasons people win awards exist outside of the politics, but the politics do also matter, and help maybe explain some things a little bit. Just keep in mind it's still only one factor.
(for instance one problem for Dierks and Keith (who is w/LN & on megaticket btw) is that they're sort of in between. They aren't the biggest guys commercially, and they're not considered as "artistic" as say a Chris or even Eric. Also Keith has already won MVOTY & usually for the guys once you're done winning, you're done winning).
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spencer
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Post by spencer on Nov 4, 2016 10:48:03 GMT -5
Is the only requirement to get an EOTY nomination a successful tour?
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carrieidol1
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Post by carrieidol1 on Nov 4, 2016 11:27:44 GMT -5
Is the only requirement to get an EOTY nomination a successful tour? It would appear on the surface that a big tour is the main criteria. However, Chris managed a nomination without one. It's supposed to be the "all-around" award. Voters are supposed to take into consideration live performance (touring), recorded performance (albums/singles), and overall ambassadorship to the genre (endorsements, TV appearances, philanthropy, overall exposure). In most cases, EOTY is awarded to someone who covers all those bases (i.e. Brad Paisley, Taylor Swift, Blake Shelton, Luke Bryan) - no one would ever question their true deservingness in their respective years; George Strait to a lesser extent but he did have more than just a big tour going for him... Garth is the first winner in some time who I think could really be questioned as to his deservingness. I think generally you have to have new/successful music to even be nominated for EOTY. His nomination is understandable based on his massive tour - you just can't ignore it and it would be a shame not to nominate him. But to win over acts who also have big tours AND released new music AND covered all the bases in terms of ambassadorship is definitely a little questionable. So to answer your question, no, except this year it seems that's all it took to win.
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someguy
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Post by someguy on Nov 5, 2016 9:33:04 GMT -5
I thought that this year's show was very good - probably my favourite CMA show in a long, long time. There was something to enjoy about every performance, though some stood out to me more than others (Dolly tribute, Miranda, Dixie Chicks/Beyonce, Tim McGraw, Garth/Trisha).
I thought that Carrie Underwood and Brad Paisley did a good job hosting again, as usual. Their opening monologue was well done, and they were a nice presence throughout the show as well.
As far as the awards, I think mostly the right people won, and even if my top choice didn't win, I don't think you can make an issue with the actual winner. Vocal Group was the closest, not because I don't like LBT, but because they didn't really do much this year. I know a lot of people are upset with Entertainer, and I see that side of things. But, Garth has had probably the biggest tour in country music history over the last couple of years, and so I don't think his win is undeserving. I think you can make much more of a case for Garth in 2016 than you could for George Strait in 2013. I wouldn't have voted for him (but he might have been my second or third choice this year), but I do think that a strong case can be made for his win.
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Post by myeverything on Nov 7, 2016 13:25:37 GMT -5
Wanted to thank y'all for the explanations. It's definitely easier to see why things are the way they are now. It may not always be right, but it is what it is.. sigh.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Nov 7, 2016 17:20:56 GMT -5
Wanted to thank y'all for the explanations. It's definitely easier to see why things are the way they are now. It may not always be right, but it is what it is.. sigh. You think politics in Washington, D.C. are something. They're nothing compared to what's going on in Nashville. The great thing about Keith Urban (I think he's your favorite-I'm not sure) is that he DOESN'T play the game. He records great songs and releases even better singles. He plays to mostly sold out crowds. If he gets awards, that is just the cherry on top. I have yet to hear him complain about NOT receiving any awards. That is what makes me respect him even more.
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