What counts as a hit?

[Harx]

Ok I think there is demand for such thread because of off-topic discussions that keep coming up in various other threads.

So, what is your opinion on what counts as a hit and what doesn't? What kind of chart run does a song need to have to be a hit in your eyes? You can discuss it all here.

My opinion: Given that majority of music that is released does not even crack the Hot 100 I tend to call more songs hits. I just think that some hits are bigger and some are smaller, some have a run in the top 10 and some peak in the 30s or 40s. I feel like it's unfair to call a song that had a short run and didn't make the year end list a flop. An underperforming song does not mean it can't also be a minor hit. But every case is different, some songs are known by everyone despite not reaching high peak on Hot 100, and some songs with great longevity end up being completely obscure, but both kinds feel like minor hits to me. I know this is an unpopular opinion and most people here tend to call "hits" a much more narrow amount of songs. But as I said, majority of released music does not chart, so if you crack the Hot 100 it already is a success. (Even though I think that a true hit reaches top 40).

[Az Paynter]

Well the thing is there are different degrees of hits and there are different places to be successful than just the Hot 100 (or all-encompassing chart) so to me 'hit status' is better measured on a case by case basis.

Songs that are big on all metrics at the same time are easy to call as hits, but sometimes things don't line up so neatly especially when the different metrics move at paces independent of each other.

Hit status can also be influenced by what precedes or succeeds any particular chart entry (dependent on whether you're viewing things retroactively or viewing things that are currently active) or what people's expectations are. Something could be deemed a 'hit' based on less if the artist hasn't had any major successes prior, whether it be because they're new or they haven't reached a breakthrough moment. Artists without a track record to maintain tend to get a little more leniency but once they establish a benchmark people tend to expect that benchmark continually be met and/or raised.

[Zach]

^You two have hit the nail right on the head when you said that all cases are different. Which is why the everlasting debates over what's a hit and what's not annoy me so much. Different contexts for different songs, the term "hit" cannot be defined by a simple list of criteria. I dare say that what's a hit and what's not is also somewhat subjective. Did a certain song meet your own personal expectations? Are your expectations even reasonable in the context?

[Sherane Lamar]

Well, obviously, it's all semantics.

When I am here, I conform to the Top 40 definition.

Back when I studied the charts by myself, back when they only showed us the Top 10 of the Hot 100, I counted only the Top 10's as "hits".

When I'm talking to people on Rap Genius, I'll just say that any song that hit the Hot 100 is a hit, since they tend to be obsessed with underground artists over there.

[truemusicreviews]

If a song accumulates ~100k points, it's a hit in my eyes.

[truemusicreviews]

Mar 2, 2017 18:08:01 GMT -5 Sherane Lamar said:

When I'm talking to people on Rap Genius, I'll just say that any song that hit the Hot 100 is a hit, since they tend to be obsessed with underground artists over there.

How is Genius? Haven't really been there in ages.

[Sherane Lamar]

Mar 2, 2017 21:15:36 GMT -5 truemusicreviews said:

If a song accumulates ~100k points, it's a hit in my eyes.

About how many songs a year do this? 

Also, RG is weird as it's always been. Maybe a little bit less active than before.

[Zinc.]

Whenever a song enters the Hot 100 it's consider a "hit". Entering the Top 40, 20, 10 or peaking at No.1 is just icing on the cake.

This is just my take on it.

[🅳🅸🆂🅲🅾]

I think reaching at least top 40 of a chart with 100 places constitutes being a minor to moderate hit. Reaching top 30 is more than moderate. Top 20 is a medium sized hit. Anything Top 10 and above is a hit. A #1 is a #1.

I recall some here trying to claim that a #1, a #2 or a top 10 hit with little to no staying power is a flop. It was a hit at that particular moment in time.

[Zinc.]

Anything that goes Top 40 or above is automatic a "hit". The key to a song's success is longevity. We've seen songs reached the Top 40 and don't go passed Top 40 either but continue to maintain longevity on the charts.

[Deleted]

Mar 3, 2017 1:32:28 GMT -5 Zinc. said:

Anything that goes Top 40 or above is automatic a "hit". The key to a song's success is longevity. We've seen songs reached the Top 40 and don't go passed Top 40 either but continue to maintain longevity on the charts.

Not if a song debuts and leaves. Not every song in top 40 is a hit.

[Zinc.]

Mar 3, 2017 1:33:10 GMT -5 @walker9 said:

Mar 3, 2017 1:32:28 GMT -5 Zinc. said:

Anything that goes Top 40 or above is automatic a "hit". The key to a song's success is longevity. We've seen songs reached the Top 40 and don't go passed Top 40 either but continue to maintain longevity on the charts.

Not if a song debuts and leaves. Not every song in top 40 is a hit.

True. But we've also seen songs re-enter the Hot 100 as well numerous times and gradually climb back up the charts as well tho.

[truemusicreviews]

Mar 2, 2017 22:27:01 GMT -5 Sherane Lamar said:

Mar 2, 2017 21:15:36 GMT -5 truemusicreviews said:

If a song accumulates ~100k points, it's a hit in my eyes.

About how many songs a year do this? 

Also, RG is weird as it's always been. Maybe a little bit less active than before.

Probably 100-200 a year. And I went back to annotate the new Lorde song and a moderator started deleting a bunch of my 'tates so I'm probably going to stay away lmao.

[bat1990]

I think of enduring hits based upon how recognizable they are to the general public.

e.g. "Defying Gravity" from Wicked never entered the Hot 100, but has massive recognition by large swaths of the American populous. Conversely, a song like "Angel" by Madonna or "Alejandro" by GaGa were respectable hits at the time but are hardly remembered by most people now.

[Sherane Lamar]

Mar 3, 2017 15:33:17 GMT -5 bat1990 said:

I think of enduring hits based upon how recognizable they are to the general public.

e.g. "Defying Gravity" from Wicked never entered the Hot 100, but has massive recognition by large swaths of the American populous. Conversely, a song like "Angel" by Madonna or "Alejandro" by GaGa were respectable hits at the time but are hardly remembered by most people now.

So you think that more people know a song from the Broadway musical "Wicked" than know "Alejandro"?

That just ain't factual, but you do you. 

[Linnethia Monique]

Mar 3, 2017 15:45:56 GMT -5 Sherane Lamar said:

Mar 3, 2017 15:33:17 GMT -5 bat1990 said:

I think of enduring hits based upon how recognizable they are to the general public.

e.g. "Defying Gravity" from Wicked never entered the Hot 100, but has massive recognition by large swaths of the American populous. Conversely, a song like "Angel" by Madonna or "Alejandro" by GaGa were respectable hits at the time but are hardly remembered by most people now.

So you think that more people know a song from the Broadway musical "Wicked" than know "Alejandro"?

That just ain't factual, but you do you. 

What makes it factual that more people know "Alejandro"?

[Sherane Lamar]

Mar 3, 2017 17:24:45 GMT -5 Linnethia Monique said:

Mar 3, 2017 15:45:56 GMT -5 Sherane Lamar said:

So you think that more people know a song from the Broadway musical "Wicked" than know "Alejandro"?

That just ain't factual, but you do you. 

What makes it factual that more people know "Alejandro"?

IDK. What makes it factual that more people know "Golddigger" than "My Shiny Teeth & Me"?

[pnobelysk]

I love my shiny teeth and me

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

It seems a lot of people think of a hit have a very limited definition as to what a hit is.

I think context matters a LOT when it comes to a hit. You have your traditional hit, internationally-known, big hit on charts all over the world. huge seller, everyone recognizes it, etc, etc, etc.

You can have national hits. Songs known only by people in a certain country. I'm sure most countries have this (except maybe the US oddly enough). I know Canada has had quite a few. Canada has "superstars" in the sense that there are singers and musicians who have been really successful in Canada but not really known in any other country. They still have hits even if they're flops or relatively unknown in the US.

You can have regional hits. I grew up in Newfoundland and that province has a culture of its own. There are musicians known pretty well only in Newfoundland who were actual household names. I remember times when some of these artists released new music and it was a big deal on the local scene. Yet, when combined with the national charts, those albums sold comparatively less.

An artist with worldwide recognition and fame is expected to have songs do well on a worldwide scale. A relative newcomer to the music scene, or an artist with limited geographical exposure doesn't have that same expectation. So when that artist has a song do as well as a worldwide phenomenon, that's matters. A #15 hit for Adele is different than a #15 hit for Tegan and Sara for example.

So in those instances, it's not really apt to compare an Adele single to a Tegan and Sara single. Adele has a wider reach and much more backing behind her. Which brings me to the next point: promo.

Singles from albums vs. singles from soundtracks or other compilations. Is it a first single? Second single? Fifth single? Did it receive a lot of label/artist push? All of these things contribute to the end result and whether a song can be defined as a hit or not.

What's the intention? Is a song intended to only be a hit in one place that just happens to kind of take off and go international? Comparatively, it's not as big as Hello but going to the source of that hit, it could be the biggest thing ever. Ria Mae, an artist from Halifax, has been a pretty big deal around here for the last two years. On the international stage, you're all probably saying "who?" On the Canadian music landscape, you might have heard of her. Here in Nova Scotia, she's pretty well known and one of the few in recent years to have a string of hits. She hasn't hit the Hot 100 (I think she hit the Canadian Hot 100 though) but on a local level, she's had 3 big hits and only the ignorant would argue against that.

So the point is, there's no one answer and it's kind of all relative to the artist, geographic location and general setting.

[leonagwen]

Depends on the artist, different artists have different standards.If Bruno Mars lead single peaked at #15 it would be a dissapointment but if Nial Horan peaked at #15 it would be a success.It's also more about opinion.A song can be a viral hit and debut in the top 10 and the next week fall out of the top 100, while another song can be in the top 100 for 40 weeks and only peak at #30.Which one is the hit?The one that peaked at #30 is the hit.Lots of factors go into it.Chart longevity airplay,Sales and Chart peak.

[Deleted]

Everything Max said. but now I will insert my own tl;dr thoughts anyway.

Plus, 10 years from now, songs that spent eons on the chart may be long forgotten, while others that barely registered on the chart for a couple of weeks become preserved in pop culture history for whatever reason. Some well-remembered songs didn't even chart. Numbers don't lie, but charts can only measure a select set of components at a select moment, so they can't and shouldn't be taken as the be-all and end-all of everything that was relevant at that very moment or even over a longer stretch of time.

With that said, we're on a board that is rooted in chart and radio discussion so this is my take on how to call a hit within the moment, for stanning purposes:

(by genre)
- top 5 peak on a particular radio format = a hit for that genre, most likely a smash
- top 10 peak on a particular radio format = at least a moderate hit for that genre
- top 20 peak on a particular radio format = a minor hit for that genre
- I don't use Billboard's hybrid genre charts. Too messy, includes components that don't necessarily represent that genre's audience and can make big format hits look like minor hits or not hits at all. (Example: Miguel's How Many Drinks peaked at #24 on Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs, but #3 on Hot R&B/Hip-Hop airplay. If you asked the average r&b fan they'd likely tell you that HMD was a solid r&b hit but the hybrid chart would have you thinking this was a flop for him.)

(mainstream)
- Hot 100 top 5 peak = a hit, most likely a smash; there are a few exceptions
- Hot 100 top 10 peak = longevity or viral status will determine whether it's a smash or a more moderate sized hit, but it is definitely a hit
- Hot 100 top 20 peak = at least a moderate hit; massive longevity may boost a song into 'big' hit territory but that doesn't happen often
- Hot 100 top 40 peak = a minor hit; massive longevity OR strong performance on a genre chart may boost a song into 'moderate' hit territory, but again, this doesn't happen often

[Deleted]

I'd call a hit something that at least gets somewhat close to making the year-end cutoff points requirement when all of its points are added up (so if a song gets screwed by the year-end cutoff, nothing gets screwed over). So if a song gets, say, 12-15 weeks on the chart, with around 5 of those weeks inside the top 50 or so would be the minimum. A song can get away with less if it gets a couple really strong weeks higher up, or if it spends longer in the lower regions of the chart.

I'm not too picky about formats (Radio, streams, sales, etc.), as long as the numbers add up to something substantial. For example, a radio hit that doesn't sell or stream for crap, but everyone enjoys when it comes on. Or something like the hits from DAMN, which were greeted like the second coming of Christ on streaming services but didn't make much of an impact anywhere else.  Granted, in that case I wouldn't call anything below LOVE a hit (and even that one's borderline), since the numbers just aren't there.

[mkarns]

Jun 21, 2017 1:30:21 GMT -5 @antigonerising said:

Everything Max said. but now I will insert my own tl;dr thoughts anyway.

Plus, 10 years from now, songs that spent eons on the chart may be long forgotten, while others that barely registered on the chart for a couple of weeks become preserved in pop culture history for whatever reason. Some well-remembered songs didn't even chart. Numbers don't lie, but charts can only measure a select set of components at a select moment, so they can't and shouldn't be taken as the be-all and end-all of everything that was relevant at that very moment or even over a longer stretch of time.

With that said, we're on a board that is rooted in chart and radio discussion so this is my take on how to call a hit within the moment, for stanning purposes:

(by genre)
- top 5 peak on a particular radio format = a hit for that genre, most likely a smash
- top 10 peak on a particular radio format = at least a moderate hit for that genre
- top 20 peak on a particular radio format = a minor hit for that genre
- I don't use Billboard's hybrid genre charts. Too messy, includes components that don't necessarily represent that genre's audience and can make big format hits look like minor hits or not hits at all. (Example: Miguel's How Many Drinks peaked at #24 on Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs, but #3 on Hot R&B/Hip-Hop airplay. If you asked the average r&b fan they'd likely tell you that HMD was a solid r&b hit but the hybrid chart would have you thinking this was a flop for him.)

(mainstream)
- Hot 100 top 5 peak = a hit, most likely a smash; there are a few exceptions
- Hot 100 top 10 peak = longevity or viral status will determine whether it's a smash or a more moderate sized hit, but it is definitely a hit
- Hot 100 top 20 peak = at least a moderate hit; massive longevity may boost a song into 'big' hit territory but that doesn't happen often
- Hot 100 top 40 peak = a minor hit; massive longevity OR strong performance on a genre chart may boost a song into 'moderate' hit territory, but again, this doesn't happen often

Tying the definition of a hit too closely to the Hot 100 or any other chart introduces its own limitations based on chart methodology. For example, the Hot 100 in most of the 1990s required songs to be issued as a commercial single to chart, and as fewer such singles were issued in that decade a lot of songs that anyone would consider "hits", then or now, didn't make that chart or did so far lower than their overall popularity (measured by radio/video/club play, amount of albums they helped sell, etc.) would warrant.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Agreed. And to add to that in a modern day context, no two #10s are the same. The amount of overall points a song needs to make the threshold of any given chart position differs from week to week so you can have a song getting a ton of airplay, sales and streaming in the winter while another song is getting even more of all three components the next summer during a particularly competitive period and thus is unable to make the top 10. Even if they have otherwise similar chart runs, it isn't really accurate to say the top 10 song is a bigger hit even though the overall points aren't as high. If that even makes sense.
I just think the Hot 100 and other charts simply provide context but never tell an entire story.

[Deleted]

Rose "Payola" Nylund mkarns No definition will be perfect, but I didn't intend my set of 'rules' to be viewed as my idea of perfection or anything close to it...for that matter they weren't even intended to be viewed as a set of rules for anything that happened more than five years ago, because the chart policies change so much. If you ask me to name a hit from ten years ago for example, I can use Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs instead of having to hunt down the airplay charts, because BB wasn't using hybrid formulas at that time. If I want to look at twenty years ago then I would be better off substituting Hot 100 Airplay for the Hot 100 chart, as that would do a better job of catching songs that didn't get commercial releases and also cut down a great deal on genre-specific hits appearing to be bigger on a mainstream level than what they really were.

Long-term hit status is not what charts are able or meant to measure, and I think that's where this thread's title question gets so tricky. People are trying to define long-term rules based on a short-term measuring stick and it just doesn't work. I feel like as long as we remain aware of the short-term purposes of a chart there's nothing wrong with having some semi-concrete cutoffs - if anything I think that makes it more fun to reflect on how things don't always line up. Like how was Don't Stop Believin' "only" a moderate #9 Hot 100 hit/#8 Mainstream Rock hit during its active run, but now is considered one of the hugest 80s classics of all time? Or why did OSD not really stand the test of time as a 'classic' (it's not even considered one of the biggest #1s in Mariah's own discography, never mind of an entire decade) despite being the longest-running #1 on the Hot 100 chart? Dichotomies like that are interesting to me.

[redrooster]

Things that have no bearing on the definition of a "hit":
1. Your opinion (or anyone's opinion)
2. Being remembered
3. Their other hits not being quite as big as their biggest hit
4. Whether or not they are still relevant today
5. Being a "respected" artist

[Normi]

Well, a lot of you take a really deep take on it
But I feel like most of these things can easily be narrowed down to this:
A song that is in the Top 40 for at least three hits
+ songs that are widely known
For example: How far I'll go never hit the Top 40 but is widely known because of the Oscars and the use in an animated movie
So it is a hit to me

[Deleted]

A hit is a well-known song that gets reasonable success on charts.

But if it were based off my opinion, it would be a rap song that manages to last a week in my playlist and then all I do is hope for it to become popular (and for others to like it).

[Gary]

Before you decide on what a "hit" is, you first have to define the scope, so to speak.

A hit where(local, regional, national, worldwide, or just simply for yourself)?
A hit to what type of people(young, old, in between?)?
What genre? (country, pop, rap, other?
Also are you using a chart to define a "hit" or not? (A 'hit' could simply mean, something your friends like and not necessarily something that a chart says is a 'hit')