Biggest flops?

[rainie]

Okay so we have threads about the most unexpected or most undeserved flops, but I was wondering what are statistically speaking some of the biggest flops that you guys can think of? I'm not taking about small underperformances or songs by unknown artists you thought would take off but didn't -- I'm talking about what songs by established artists had a massive drop off in performance compared to their previous singles?

I'll start with Young and Menace by Fall Out Boy. With the exception of one #21 peaking song during the height of their irrelevance, Fall Out Boy have never had a lead single peak lower then #8 on alt or not cross over to pop to some extent -- however Young and Menace barely scraped the alt top 50 and missed the hot 100 and pop top 50 completely.

What are some other examples?

[Sherane Lamar]

"statistically speaking"

I'd be really interested in seeing a stastical model that measured how big of a flop a song is. No sarcasm, I'd really love to see it.

As it stands, I think "flop" is a very subjective term. It requires us to compare reality to our own expectations, which will always have a bit of bias in them.

I don't think it's impossible to create some sort of prediction model for measuring how much of a "flop" something is. In order to do that though, you'd have to make a system for guessing how big a song is going to be (which would probably be more interesting than a flop model). I guess a very rudimentary system would be merely to compare the lead single of an album to the lead single of a follow up album.

But then there's other variables, such as time between albums, controversies, etc. And each of those will have subjective interpretation as well. For example, is More Life a "flop" because it didn't do as well as Views? Or does its status as a "playlist" excuse its decrease in popularity? All very up for interpretation.

[MilesW1998]

I think Team by Iggy Azalea qualifies as a flop. It could have been a hit, but luckily it did flop, and since then it looks like Iggy's career is basically dead at this point. All that hype for the 2nd album must have gone as soon as Def Jam dropped her, or at least I think that's what happened with Iggy.

[Deleted]

Friends by Justin Bieber?

[MilesW1998]

Sept 9, 2017 11:07:55 GMT -5 @walker9 said:

Friends by Justin Bieber?

You could also add 2U by David Guetta and Justin Bieber, but we don't really know if Friends will be a definite flop. It's not doing that well on sales, but I feel it could pick up on streaming and airplay, if it isn't already that is. 

[Deleted]

In the US at least, everything from Pop God Kylie Minogue after Love At First Sight, so sad cause she is amazing
She was always too good for the US, evidenced by Slow not being a big hit  :'(

[MilesW1998]

^I feel the only Kylie hit in the U.S. was Can't Get You Out Of My Head, and nothing else. Although to be fair, that was really the only song from her that I really know, so maybe I'm missing something here.

[Harx]

Sept 9, 2017 12:00:57 GMT -5 MilesW1998 said:

^I feel the only Kylie hit in the U.S. was Can't Get You Out Of My Head, and nothing else. Although to be fair, that was really the only song from her that I really know, so maybe I'm missing something here.

Her cover of Loco Motion was also a #3 hit in 1988

[Deleted]

Love At First Sight was a mild hit with a #23 peak and #10 on pop radio, after it only 2 other songs charted and they peaked at #91 (the song above, Slow is one of them)

[MilesW1998]

Sept 9, 2017 12:03:11 GMT -5 Harx said:

Sept 9, 2017 12:00:57 GMT -5 MilesW1998 said:

^I feel the only Kylie hit in the U.S. was Can't Get You Out Of My Head, and nothing else. Although to be fair, that was really the only song from her that I really know, so maybe I'm missing something here.

Her cover of Loco Motion was also a #2 hit in 1988

Wait, she existed as far back as 1988? Wait, she's almost 50? Loco-Motion was a #3 smash in '88? How? CGYOOMH is one of the catchiest and most recognizable dance hits of the 2000s, I assumed she was just some young girl in her teens or twenties make pop music. And this was her best song, and most successful to date. So how in the nine Hell's did she go from Loco Motion to one of the best songs of the last decade. 

[Deleted]

Sept 9, 2017 12:08:04 GMT -5 MilesW1998 said:

Sept 9, 2017 12:03:11 GMT -5 Harx said:

Her cover of Loco Motion was also a #2 hit in 1988

Wait, she existed as far back as 1988? Wait, she's almost 50? Loco-Motion was a #3 smash in '88? How? CGYOOMH is one of the catchiest and most recognizable dance hits of the 2000s, I assumed she was just some young girl in her teens or twenties make pop music. And this was her best song, and most successful to date. So how in the nine Hell's did she go from Loco Motion to one of the best songs of the last decade. 

She's a Pop Goddess 

[कामसूत्र]

Sept 9, 2017 12:08:04 GMT -5 MilesW1998 said:

Sept 9, 2017 12:03:11 GMT -5 Harx said:

Her cover of Loco Motion was also a #2 hit in 1988

Wait, she existed as far back as 1988? Wait, she's almost 50? Loco-Motion was a #3 smash in '88? How? CGYOOMH is one of the catchiest and most recognizable dance hits of the 2000s, I assumed she was just some young girl in her teens or twenties make pop music. And this was her best song, and most successful to date. So how in the nine Hell's did she go from Loco Motion to one of the best songs of the last decade. 

Kylie was always much more successful outside of the U.S. She continued to be successful after her cover of "The Locomotion" came out and through CGYOOMH. While she may not be as big a name in the U.S., internationally, she is pretty close to Madonna in terms of pop culture impact and in terms of her many musical and image-related reinventions. It's only recently that some of her releases haven't been as successful though the choice of people she works with and the way said work is promoted hasn't helped. Her recent releases haven't done much here because of poor management. She should have never gotten with Roc Nation.

In terms of recent singles (like within the last 20 years), I would highly recommend "Breathe", "Confide In Me", "Too Far", "Did It Again", "On A Night Like This", "Spinning Around", "In Your Eyes", "Butterfly", "Love At First Sight",
"Come Into My World", "Red Blooded Woman", "I Believe In You", "The One", "All The Lovers", "Put Your Hands Up", "Into The Blue", "Get Outta My Way", and "Right Here, Right Now." There are many others, but these are the ones I come back to the most.

[Devil Marlena Nylund]

I'd say Nelly Furtado is one of the top ones for this thread.

[कामसूत्र]

Katy Perry. Each single has been doing much worse than the last here in the U.S. If it's really true that she has a different marketing team now, that would explain some of the messiness and underperformance. But the wrong single choices will also do that too and it just make it worse.

[Luckie Starchild]

Sept 9, 2017 0:15:42 GMT -5 rainie said:

What are some other examples?

The Bee Gees had six consecutive #1 singles… then "He's a Liar," their lead single from Living Eyes peaked at #30 and the album peaked at #41... that's about as bad as it gets.

Also, Debbie Gibson's Electric Youth album spent five weeks at #1 in 1989… the following year, she released her Anything Is Possible album which peaked at #41...

[Deleted]

It's too bad the prerequisite for this 'biggest flops with stats' thing is being a previously successful artist, b/ I'm pretty sure the biggest statistical flop with receipts is Carly Hennessy's debut in 2000 (2001? I forget the exact year). MCA Records spent $2.2 million trying to launch her; she opened with 278. No, that's not a typo and I didn't forget the zeroes. Probably goes without saying that MCA Records folded shortly thereafter. There's 'we lost money on this' flopping and then there's 'so who's the best bankruptcy attorney in town again?' flopping. Idol message boards exploded when she resurfaced as Carly Smithson in 2008 and the show's producers tried to act like that didn't happen.

In light of that, I'm hard pressed to think of another example of Carly Hennessy proportions. Something like Katy's current sitch only feels huge because we were used to her having hits; it's not likely so bad that Capitol can't pay the light bill. The concert ticket bundle probably offset most if not all losses. If an artist is signed to a 360 deal or anything close to it, the label gets a cut of endorsements, touring, and/or merchandise revenue.

Maybe JC Chasez' Schizophrenic? He wasn't the *NSYNC member the label was interested in pushing solo so I suppose the expectations weren't super high in the first place, but even 'flop' solo attempts back then could usually scrape up 500k and a Hot 100 top 20 just off of name recognition if coming from a huge group. JC sold 121k and only charted as high as #88 with the lead single (the second single didn't chart). That fall was rough.

Nelly Furtado's Spirit Indestructible was a shockingly big flop, too.

[Troublemaker]

Sept 9, 2017 21:01:53 GMT -5 @antigonerising said:

Nelly Furtado's Spirit Indestructible was a shockingly big flop, too.

Indestructible broke my heart because I was expecting her to build on the success of loose. I guess we had different expectations

[कामसूत्र]

Sept 9, 2017 21:01:53 GMT -5 @antigonerising said:

It's too bad the prerequisite for this 'biggest flops with stats' thing is being a previously successful artist, b/ I'm pretty sure the biggest statistical flop with receipts is Carly Hennessy's debut in 2000 (2001? I forget the exact year). MCA Records spent $2.2 million trying to launch her; she opened with 278. No, that's not a typo and I didn't forget the zeroes. Probably goes without saying that MCA Records folded shortly thereafter. There's 'we lost money on this' flopping and then there's 'so who's the best bankruptcy attorney in town again?' flopping. Idol message boards exploded when she resurfaced as Carly Smithson in 2008 and the show's producers tried to act like that didn't happen.

In light of that, I'm hard pressed to think of another example of Carly Hennessy proportions.

This is probably the definitive example of epic floppage.

I still cannot wrap my head around how they spent that much on developing her and promoting yet so few copies were sold (according to Wikipedia it was 378 but that's still not any better). There are independent artists who are able to sell more and they spend much, much less, like even just a few thousand dollars. Clearly their spending was out of control and there were many issues. There is no guarantee that promotion will lead to something being successful or selling a lot if the public is not liking it (I did hear the album and it was pleasant for what it was but it's nothing to write home about; I do love "I'm Gonna Blow Your Mind" and "Beautiful You" though). Clearly whatever they did try to do did not work at all. I also read that they spend $250,000 on the video for that single. It does not look like it cost that much unless they actually built a nightclub and bought the car and stuff for those scenes.

There was an article in the Wall Street Journal about what happened.

[Joe1240]

Robin Thicke.Everything since "Blurred Lines" has flopped.He is in the same position as Iggy Azalea.One Big Solo Hit and nothing else after.Two Artists who ended their own career.

[think pink.]

Crying In The Club.

Camila had the industry and her peers hyping her solo release for a good year and the single was written and produced by big time heavy hitters, was released the same time as the video, had all major A.List popstars tweeting out the song along with a big performance slot at the Billboard awards. Only to go on and peak at #19 on CHR and #47 on the Hot 100.

[कामसूत्र]

Sept 9, 2017 21:45:25 GMT -5 Joe1240 said:

Robin Thicke.Everything since "Blurred Lines" has flopped.He is in the same position as Iggy Azalea.One Big Solo Hit and nothing else after.Two Artists who ended their own career.

I wish Robin would go back to doing good, mature R&B like he did before "Blurred Lines."

That whole Paula album he did in the hopes of getting his now ex-wife back was totally self-indulgent and shameful. If he didn't want to lose her, he shouldn't have freaked Miley Cyrus on stage and slutshamed her afterwards even though it was clear he enjoyed her putting her ass on his crotch. If he was so "offended" by this, he shouldn't have been thrusting it and grinding it in ecstasy. It made me cringe seeing Robin do a song about winning his ex back while he is humping and grinding the floor. Remember how you got to where you are now. :sip2:

[Deleted]

Sept 9, 2017 21:45:14 GMT -5 कामसूत्र said:

Sept 9, 2017 21:01:53 GMT -5 @antigonerising said:

It's too bad the prerequisite for this 'biggest flops with stats' thing is being a previously successful artist, b/ I'm pretty sure the biggest statistical flop with receipts is Carly Hennessy's debut in 2000 (2001? I forget the exact year). MCA Records spent $2.2 million trying to launch her; she opened with 278. No, that's not a typo and I didn't forget the zeroes. Probably goes without saying that MCA Records folded shortly thereafter. There's 'we lost money on this' flopping and then there's 'so who's the best bankruptcy attorney in town again?' flopping. Idol message boards exploded when she resurfaced as Carly Smithson in 2008 and the show's producers tried to act like that didn't happen.

In light of that, I'm hard pressed to think of another example of Carly Hennessy proportions.

This is probably the definitive example of epic floppage.

I still cannot wrap my head around how they spent that much on developing her and promoting yet so few copies were sold (according to Wikipedia it was 378 but that's still not any better). There are independent artists who are able to sell more and they spend much, much less, like even just a few thousand dollars. Clearly their spending was out of control and there were many issues. There is no guarantee that promotion will lead to something being successful or selling a lot if the public is not liking it (I did hear the album and it was pleasant for what it was but it's nothing to write home about; I do love "I'm Gonna Blow Your Mind" and "Beautiful You" though). Clearly whatever they did try to do did not work at all. I also read that they spend $250,000 on the video for that single. It does not look like it cost that much unless they actually built a nightclub and bought the car and stuff for those scenes.

There was an article in the Wall Street Journal about what happened.

There were apparently two videos, but the one with the club in it isn't online anywhere that I know of. Instead it's just her and her band in a room with a busted couch, a wind machine, and a bunch of leaves. So it was an even worse waste of money b/c the first video must have gotten scrapped for some reason.

Reading through the comments on the video it seems that MCA was just terribly off with the marketing. They wanted to aim her at young audience, but Disney and Nick wouldn't play the song b/c the lyrics were too sexual. Meanwhile, she was too young to appeal to older people. And also the song didn't sound bad but IMO it was very mid- '90s, so in a post-Britney/Christina world it was already dated. I remember hearing the song once or twice but never knew who the artist was until years later when her Idol appearance brought it all to the forefront again.

[rainie]

^^Wow that Carly Hennessy thing is fascinating. After listening to her first two singles, yeah I have to agree -- her music sounds very dated and doesn't really seem to fit into either of the late 90s pop niches, bubblegum teen pop or adult singer songwriter pop. She's almost like a young Alanis Moresette in that sense, but the label didn't seem to realize this and marketed her as this teenage pop star with awful cheap pop sounding backing tracks.

[कामसूत्र]

Here is the original Carly video in the nightclub

[Deleted]

I think flops don't get any bigger than Cassie
Me & U was huge, but by other then that she simply was gone

Sucks though cause Long Way 2 Go, Is It You, & Official Girl were all hit worthy.

[Enigma.]

Oh dear God that Carly Hennessy track is awful, although might have been a little less so in 2000.

Tyra Banks' music career came to mind, Shake Ya Body was produced by Darkchild and she used her hit tv show to promote it. Also just found out that she recorded a song with Kobe Bryant. Must have had a huuuuuuge success on chart.

[Deleted]

Another one probably can be In Common - Alicia Keys

For an artist with much chart successes,that song not doing well was such a shocker
Especially since it was a really good song too, then again the whole Here project went invisible imo
And she was a judge at The Voice and promoted at SNL, BET Awards, The Voice finale, and more

So it not even making the Hot 100 at all was surprising

[कामसूत्र]

Sept 10, 2017 1:06:34 GMT -5 Enigma. said:

Tyra Banks' music career came to mind, Shake Ya Body was produced by Darkchild and she used her hit tv show to promote it. Also just found out that she recorded a song with Kobe Bryant. Must have had a huuuuuuge success on chart.

"Shake Ya Body" was being given away for a free download on the UPN (gosh, I loved that network's comedies) website and they heavily promoted it on the show and hyped up the music video. I liked the song at the time. It was fun for what it was. I could have seen it doing something if it were properly promoted.

In the early 2000s, Inside Edition's presenter Deborah Norville wrote and recorded a song and shot a video so she could experience what it's like to make a song and do a video. She came up with this. This too is decent enough for what it was, but it was not going to do much on the charts (fun fact: the instrumental used for the track went on to be used for a remix of "I Wanna Dance With Somebody" by Whitney Houston).

[Deleted]

Sept 10, 2017 0:53:06 GMT -5 कामसूत्र said:

Here is the original Carly video in the nightclub

Ooh, so it is still around! I had never seen it before and someone on the other vid's comments was saying they couldn't find it so I assumed it had been wiped from the face of the earth. But, um, that might have been what should have happened; this video is terrible lol. The wind machine and the leaves were much better and her styling was much more on point in the leaves vid as well. Also, the dance breakdown gave me second-hand embarrassment (it was off-beat, she wasn't good at it, and nothing about this song calls for a dance break anyway). I think they were trying and failing to recreate a You Drive Me Crazy or What a Girl Wants vibe.

And now I really don't understand how they managed to blow 250k on that. I feel like early 2000s was the peak period of wastefulness when it came to video budgets though. I might be wrong but I think I recall 200-250k actually being kind of the standard rate for video expenses then. Labels were burning money just b/c they had it to burn, smh.

A lot of that 2.2 mil could have been saved just by someone realizing that they needed to change her sonic direction and reworking the production (or even scrapping the song(s) completely and starting fresh) before putting one cent toward anything else.

[Enigma.]

Several Missy Elliott videos cost like 1-2 million, wonder if that money ever came back to label when She's a Bitch for example was a huge #90 smash (and the album barely went platinum). I love Missy so it's not that but there was a proper hyperbole back then.