magik
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Post by magik on Jun 23, 2018 10:08:17 GMT -5
Beyoncé is kinda "due" for a true flop.
4 was the closest thing to one, but even that isn't a flop in retrospect.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Jun 23, 2018 10:13:04 GMT -5
Is this the the first week out of the top 10 for The Greatest Showman? How long was it in for? It debuted in December at 71 then it rose to 63 the next week. Week 3 it jumped to #5 (and #1 in week 4) and has not left the top 10 since until, pending major differences in Nielsen Soundscan, this week. So nearly 6 months yes 25 weeks so far
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Keelzit
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Post by Keelzit on Jun 23, 2018 10:22:19 GMT -5
Disas-tuh. The US is finally waking up to their pretentiousness and megalomania. It's a miracle that they even managed to get away with that for so many years since ALL media have been kissing their asses for almost a decade now without ever calling them out. In moments like these, I'm proud to say that I'm European and we haven't been using either one of them since 2009. Imagine being this bitter... Bitter over what? It's the truth and the vast majority of the internet has a similar opinion from what I've observed. We're tired of their propaganda, the gimmicks, the 'surprises', etc and we celebrate this day loud and proud. They had a good run though I must say.
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dbhmr
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>
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Post by dbhmr on Jun 23, 2018 11:10:02 GMT -5
Disas-tuh. Imagine being this bitter... Bitter over what? It's the truth and the vast majority of the internet has a similar opinion from what I've observed. We're tired of their propaganda, the gimmicks, the 'surprises', etc and we celebrate this day loud and proud. They had a good run though I must say. “Propaganda” lol LOCK HER UP!
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Caution
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Post by Caution on Jun 23, 2018 11:25:27 GMT -5
Like it or not Beyonce and Jay-Z are the Kardashians of music. They don't need to sell albums anymore to stay relevant.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Jun 23, 2018 11:29:52 GMT -5
Like it or not Beyonce and Jay-Z are the Kardashians of music. They don't need to sell albums anymore to stay relevant. Frankly Beyonce’s album sales have never matched her hype, but it doesn't matter because she makes her coint elsewhere anyway.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Jun 23, 2018 11:49:55 GMT -5
Like it or not Beyonce and Jay-Z are the Kardashians of music. They don't need to sell albums anymore to stay relevant. Frankly Beyonce’s album sales have never matched her hype, but it doesn't matter because she makes her coint elsewhere anyway. Even during her debut era that was brought up pulsemusic.proboards.com/thread/28808/why-beyonces-sales-spectacular I guess she kinda is similar to Michael in that way. Thriller had huge amazing sales obviously, but the other albums kinda had normal/below par sales for commercially successful albums at the time. You would've expected much higher for the amount of hype his name held. Bad had the most #1 hits ever, insane promotion, AND followed the biggest album ever and that finished at 'only' 9x Platinum during the late 80s when almost all blockbuster albums did 10x+.
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ddlz
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Post by ddlz on Jun 23, 2018 12:23:47 GMT -5
Beyonce is obviously a little bit lost. I think rewatching a few Tina Turner DVDs or going to a Bruno Mars concert could help her find herself.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Jun 23, 2018 12:38:54 GMT -5
Beyonce is obviously a little bit lost. I think rewatching a few Tina Turner DVDs or going to a Bruno Mars concert could help her find herself. Her live shows still own, or did you miss the reaction to Coachella?
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TakeMe
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Post by TakeMe on Jun 23, 2018 13:29:55 GMT -5
Beyonce is obviously a little bit lost. I think rewatching a few Tina Turner DVDs or going to a Bruno Mars concert could help her find herself. Her live shows still own, or did you miss the reaction to Coachella? Her Coachella performance was lame. The only thing that stood out was the big band backing her. Aside from that it’s the same two step kick “dancing” moves, constant twerking and yet another destiny child reunion.
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ddlz
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Post by ddlz on Jun 23, 2018 14:02:43 GMT -5
Her live shows still own, or did you miss the reaction to Coachella? Her Coachella performance was lame. The only thing that stood out was the big band backing her. Aside from that it’s the same two step kick “dancing” moves, constant twerking and yet another destiny child reunion. Agreed. Her Stevie Wonder tribute with Ed and Gary was her last above-average performance that I can remember that can somewhat justify her hype.
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slw84
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Post by slw84 on Jun 23, 2018 14:17:40 GMT -5
Like it or not Beyonce and Jay-Z are the Kardashians of music. They don't need to sell albums anymore to stay relevant. Frankly Beyonce’s album sales have never matched her hype, but it doesn't matter because she makes her coint elsewhere anyway. True. Beyonce has had one of the best brands and always had opportunity to push her products on mainstream and urban platforms yet 4x platinum (once) 5M sales is her highest selling album. She used to get played on pop in addition to her constant urban play. She definitely is that artist that people would rather see live than buy her album (which is strange to me). Frankly Beyonce’s album sales have never matched her hype, but it doesn't matter because she makes her coint elsewhere anyway. Even during her debut era that was brought up pulsemusic.proboards.com/thread/28808/why-beyonces-sales-spectacular I guess she kinda is similar to Michael in that way. Thriller had huge amazing sales obviously, but the other albums kinda had normal/below par sales for commercially successful albums at the time. You would've expected much higher for the amount of hype his name held. Bad had the most #1 hits ever, insane promotion, AND followed the biggest album ever and that finished at 'only' 9x Platinum during the late 80s when almost all blockbuster albums did 10x+. Well, Michael's bad being 8-9x platinum is after his prime era thriller and the top albums of that time were going 7x-12x platinum. He was either top selling or much closer than a Beyonce as the likes of Bobby brown (7x platinum); george Michael (10x platinum); bon jovi (12x platinum) or Prince (14x platinum) were in their prime. Beyonce's debut album (4x platinum - 5M sales) was outsold by top seller Norah Jones almost 2.5x Beyonce's 2nd album (3x platinum - 3M sales) which had a re-release was outsold double by top female seller Carrie Underwood Beyonce's 3rd album (2x platinum -3M sales) which I think had a re-release but definitely was her most iconic pop phenom era was outsold by top sellersTaylor swift and susan boyle Beyonce's 4th album (1x platinum -1.5M sales) was outsold almost 5x by top sellers Adele Beyonce's 5th era she shut it down for females and it wasn't close. Then she and rihanna were on par during Beyonce's 6th era MJ was either surpassing or much closer. I think it wasn't until 2001 when he possibly was outsold by a lot but by then he was competing with a new generation. His 80s/90s work he was quite ahead or barely behind. shockingly for all the good branding Beyonce's stats leave much to be desired...I mean not even a diamond album. I'm sure the Jayz Bey album will go platinum though
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Angel
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Post by Angel on Jun 23, 2018 15:03:20 GMT -5
The US is finally waking up to their pretentiousness and megalomania. It's a miracle that they even managed to get away with that for so many years since ALL media have been kissing their asses for almost a decade now without ever calling them out. In moments like these, I'm proud to say that I'm European and we haven't been using either one of them since 2009. It’s more like Beyoncé fans just don’t like Jay.
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Jun 23, 2018 15:43:30 GMT -5
Apparently Billboard is having some issued with the Tidal streams for Everything is Love. Fake streams are coming?
(This is according to some twitter accounts, might not happen in the end but I would not be shocked if the BB numbers are significantly different)
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Post by Queen of Insomnia. on Jun 23, 2018 16:02:12 GMT -5
It's not just about Jay-z. I know he's easy target, but Beyonce is to blame for that mess too. To me it's pretty obvious she's moving backwards. She's constantly in people's faces, but the fact is this woman despite being over 20 years on the music scene still keeps using dozens of writers and producers for her albums, as well as the same old dance rutines. She could hire 150 dancers next time to create something exciting, but IT won't help her in the long run. She needs to find something genuine or universal to sing about. Change her image, go on hiatus and try again. Her marriage is not IT anymore. Media insising on calling her the G.O.A.T, making disrspectful comparitions to Michael Jackson, make people question her even more. She did see Bruno Mars in 24k Magic tour, but IT seems she didn't learn much about rare musicianship and letting your talent do the taking, that's too bad. Imho they really earned that massive underperformance. They better learn from IT.
Congrats to Christiana.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Jun 23, 2018 16:50:19 GMT -5
Impressive sales longevity for [The Greatest Showman[/i], which likely will hold in the top 10 on the Nielsen sales chart. It was the first album to pass 1 million in 2018 sales.
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divasummer
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Post by divasummer on Jun 23, 2018 17:16:36 GMT -5
Frankly Beyonce’s album sales have never matched her hype, but it doesn't matter because she makes her coint elsewhere anyway. Even during her debut era that was brought up pulsemusic.proboards.com/thread/28808/why-beyonces-sales-spectacular I guess she kinda is similar to Michael in that way. Thriller had huge amazing sales obviously, but the other albums kinda had normal/below par sales for commercially successful albums at the time. You would've expected much higher for the amount of hype his name held. Bad had the most #1 hits ever, insane promotion, AND followed the biggest album ever and that finished at 'only' 9x Platinum during the late 80s when almost all blockbuster albums did 10x+. Just wanted to point out that all those Michael albums sold A LOT more WW than in the US. At least "Bad, Dangerous and History" did I think "Dangerous" even sold more than "Bad" after it's run was over. Yes in the US Michael's sales softened to top 3 A List Superstar selling level and not the top seller every year for "Bad and Dangerous" But WW he killed it.
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Dreams
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Post by Dreams on Jun 23, 2018 18:41:39 GMT -5
Beyonce is obviously a little bit lost. I think rewatching a few Tina Turner DVDs or going to a Bruno Mars concert could help her find herself. Her live shows still own, or did you miss the reaction to Coachella? I agree with this. Beyoncé's still as explosive a perfomer as she ever was, it's musically that this bitch is canceled. She NEEDS a musical and artistic overhaul as soon as possible.
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slw84
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Post by slw84 on Jun 23, 2018 18:43:58 GMT -5
Even during her debut era that was brought up pulsemusic.proboards.com/thread/28808/why-beyonces-sales-spectacular I guess she kinda is similar to Michael in that way. Thriller had huge amazing sales obviously, but the other albums kinda had normal/below par sales for commercially successful albums at the time. You would've expected much higher for the amount of hype his name held. Bad had the most #1 hits ever, insane promotion, AND followed the biggest album ever and that finished at 'only' 9x Platinum during the late 80s when almost all blockbuster albums did 10x+. Just wanted to point out that all those Michael albums sold A LOT more WW than in the US. At least "Bad, Dangerous and History" did I think "Dangerous" even sold more than "Bad" after it's run was over. Yes in the US Michael's sales softened to top 3 A List Superstar selling level and not the top seller every year for "Bad and Dangerous" But WW he killed it. I mean you can't duplicate Thriller sales. That said a consistent 8-10x platinum result afterwards is nothing to downplay especially when "top" sellers of the year during those times were going 7x-12x platinum. I wouldn't compare MJ's sustainability to Beyonce's because MJ's numbers were impressive for Bad/Dangerous and even History (despite it's just RIAA double counting certs going on).
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 19:49:28 GMT -5
I think the only thing I get out of this is that even when she's flopping, non-fans just cannot stop being pressed over the fact that Beyonce is a legend, media propaganda be damned.
She's 15 years into her [extremely enviable and lauded] solo career so the sales decline had to kick in sooner or later. I just hate that she hitched her wagon to Jay on this one because the decline would probably have been more gradual if she'd kept it solo and stopped trying to make Tidal happen. Odds of her outperforming this opening the next time out aren't great, for a few reasons. It's too late in the game for her to try to 'reinvent' her image or sound for the sake of commercial appeal (critics are up her hooha regardless - even EIL has an 82 on Metacritic - so acclaim is not the issue) so I don't know why anyone would even suggest that. But it doesn't matter; her status is set. The general public isn't going to say at once, 'oh wow, we were wrong all this time, Beyonce is trash' and declare her cancelled or anything. It's just a flop album you guys!
I care more about which female r&b act(s) are about to get the major come-up now that Beyonce's oppressive reign of terror is finally giving folks room to breathe.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Jun 23, 2018 20:41:09 GMT -5
Even during her debut era that was brought up pulsemusic.proboards.com/thread/28808/why-beyonces-sales-spectacular I guess she kinda is similar to Michael in that way. Thriller had huge amazing sales obviously, but the other albums kinda had normal/below par sales for commercially successful albums at the time. You would've expected much higher for the amount of hype his name held. Bad had the most #1 hits ever, insane promotion, AND followed the biggest album ever and that finished at 'only' 9x Platinum during the late 80s when almost all blockbuster albums did 10x+. Just wanted to point out that all those Michael albums sold A LOT more WW than in the US. At least "Bad, Dangerous and History" did I think "Dangerous" even sold more than "Bad" after it's run was over. Yes in the US Michael's sales softened to top 3 A List Superstar selling level and not the top seller every year for "Bad and Dangerous" But WW he killed it. Yeah, WW is a different discussion. Their entire careers are different worldwide. MJ was one of the first true global phenomenons. I mean you can't duplicate Thriller sales. That said a consistent 8-10x platinum result afterwards is nothing to downplay especially when "top" sellers of the year during those times were going 7x-12x platinum. I wouldn't compare MJ's sustainability to Beyonce's because MJ's numbers were impressive for Bad/Dangerous and even History (despite it's just RIAA double counting certs going on). The same could be said for Beyonce though. Her sales for her studio albums aren't weak whatsoever, they're what the top-sellers usually sell this decade bar Tay/Adele (1.5-3 million). However when you really notice how much publicity and media coverage she gets, it naturally feels as if it would be higher. MJ's sales weren't bad, but also Bad/Dangerous /History were selling similarly to say Garth Brooks who was also churning 7x-12x Platinum albums during the same period. Or another male Pop act Michael Bolton. You wouldn't think they would have been near each other considering what a diverse audience MJ had, the amount of mainstream hits he got, and his media coverage. The main point I was trying to make is they are able to make a presence that feels bigger than their numbers on paper. Most people probably thought Bad felt just as big as 20x Platinum sized albums. He was just able to be that much of a pop culture event. Similar to how many of the public probably thinks this album is as big as Drake's upcoming album next week just because of the huge names attached & the culture discussion they cause. Despite the fact in reality, Drake's album will do like 5x more first week.
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slw84
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I only tolerate legends
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Post by slw84 on Jun 23, 2018 21:48:49 GMT -5
Just wanted to point out that all those Michael albums sold A LOT more WW than in the US. At least "Bad, Dangerous and History" did I think "Dangerous" even sold more than "Bad" after it's run was over. Yes in the US Michael's sales softened to top 3 A List Superstar selling level and not the top seller every year for "Bad and Dangerous" But WW he killed it. Yeah, WW is a different discussion. Their entire careers are different worldwide. MJ was one of the first true global phenomenons. I mean you can't duplicate Thriller sales. That said a consistent 8-10x platinum result afterwards is nothing to downplay especially when "top" sellers of the year during those times were going 7x-12x platinum. I wouldn't compare MJ's sustainability to Beyonce's because MJ's numbers were impressive for Bad/Dangerous and even History (despite it's just RIAA double counting certs going on). The same could be said for Beyonce though. Her sales for her studio albums aren't weak whatsoever, they're what the top-sellers usually sell this decade bar Tay/Adele (1.5-3 million). However when you really notice how much publicity and media coverage she gets, it naturally feels as if it would be higher. MJ's sales weren't bad, but also Bad/Dangerous /History were selling similarly to say Garth Brooks who was also churning 7x-12x Platinum albums during the same period. Or another male Pop act Michael Bolton. You wouldn't think they would have been near each other considering what a diverse audience MJ had, the amount of mainstream hits he got, and his media coverage. The main point I was trying to make is they are able to make a presence that feels bigger than their numbers on paper. Most people probably thought Bad felt just as big as 20x Platinum sized albums. He was just able to be that much of a pop culture event. Similar to how many of the public probably thinks this album is as big as Drake's upcoming album next week just because of the huge names attached & the culture discussion they cause. Despite the fact in reality, Drake's album will do like 5x more first week. I guess I see your overall point but it still seems like a downplay to MJ because Off the wall/Bad/Dangerous/history going 7-10x platinum was a big deal and I don't think it was looked at as "that's it" or a shock as if people expected Thriller each album. back then they advertised how many times platinum someone went and I don't think it was a point of when he dropped a Man in the mirror or Black or white or scream that it felt like 10x platinum...it just felt like multiplatinum success that he kept doing again. back then, some people would have one album do well and then the next would decline drastically. I believe people felt that MJ kept doing it again and either sustaining or exceed flavors of the moments. Garth brooks was massive and appealed to a wider demographic for certain reasons but him going 20x platinum didn't really make people feel like MJ going 7x platinum was expected to be bigger. For instance, Alicia outsold Beyonce her first 4 eras. That's actually shocking to non music stans because you'd think it'd be the other way around but when George Michael had that one 10x platinum album or Bobby brown had that one 7x platinum album in the late 80s MJ was still matching/exceeding them. I know some people that truly believe Beyonce's sales match or are close to the likes of Madonna/Celine/Mariah/Janet based on how she's marketed and then when they find out she doesn't have 10 #1s or that her albums get all that juice and go 2-3x platinum it's like, really? Basically a 2-3x platinum album from Beyonce is shocking because her brand is so strong people would expect more but when MJ didn't hit Thriller numbers but still pulled 7-10x platinum it was moreso sustaining past a once in a lifetime mega pop culture moment I hate to say this because I know people will be scratching their heads but Taylor Swifts sustainability and even decline past prime still doing ok gives me more MJ esque vibes than Beyonce considering taylor had moments of being outsold by Adele/Susan Boyle and a few others but still had her moment and still kept up. but to bring it back to drake i agree on that. that also happened with alot of cult classic movies that didn't really do well at the box office but the impact seemed like it was massive. Marketing really makes you think those things because most people don't care as much...if you see/hear it enough times you believe it. I have high hopes for Drake's era despite the mess of recent.
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TakeMe
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Post by TakeMe on Jun 23, 2018 22:47:45 GMT -5
All I can say in regards to this Michael and Beyoncé sales talk is that every artist has there commercial peak. By the time Thriller was released and became the biggest album on earth Michael was already 11 years into his solo career. It doesn’t matter how much each individual album sold in the US because overall each of his albums post “Forever, Michael” sold extremely well WW (Aside from Invincible which is said to have not did as well commercially due to lack of promotion and issues with the label Michael was apart of at the time). So in the end you have some artists like Michael, Whitney and Janet who peak years into their solo careers. And then you have overrated artists like Beyoncé who peaks commercially with her debut album☺️ In regards to Beyoncé all I can say is she better be lucky she has a fan base who no matter what she does will always worship her. She’s lucky she can do whatever she wants with her music, hell even go as far as to farting for 5 minutes on a record and they will purchase her music. But the comparisons between her and any larger artist than her stops when she’s called the “greatest artist of all time” or the “new Michael”. Her fans wonder why so many people dislikes her and them and can’t think for a second that articles like this www.thedailybeast.com/beyonce-is-our-michael-jackson-all-hail-the-queen-of-pop?ref=scroll could possibly be the reason why. But like I said. She’s lucky☺️
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Janhova's Witness
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Post by Janhova's Witness on Jun 23, 2018 23:54:55 GMT -5
Disas-tuh. Imagine being this bitter... Bitter over what? It's the truth and the vast majority of the internet has a similar opinion from what I've observed. We're tired of their propaganda, the gimmicks, the 'surprises', etc and we celebrate this day loud and proud. They had a good run though I must say. Preach !!
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Janhova's Witness
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Post by Janhova's Witness on Jun 24, 2018 0:07:20 GMT -5
Wig the roasting of Thiefyoncé in this thread ....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2018 0:31:40 GMT -5
Bitter over what? It's the truth and the vast majority of the internet has a similar opinion from what I've observed. We're tired of their propaganda, the gimmicks, the 'surprises', etc and we celebrate this day loud and proud. They had a good run though I must say. “Propaganda” lol LOCK HER UP! For all propaganda that is in the world this is what they choose to reserve their energy for. This!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2018 0:34:51 GMT -5
Also welcome back Slw84. Haven't noticed you in years! It's good to have you back for familiarity and deep analyzing of situations!
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Keelzit
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Post by Keelzit on Jun 24, 2018 1:11:04 GMT -5
“Propaganda” lol LOCK HER UP! For all propaganda that is in the world this is what they choose to reserve their energy for. This! "You don't know what I do" (Selena Gomez 20:16)
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shayonce
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Post by shayonce on Jun 24, 2018 2:39:40 GMT -5
LOL one flop now her whole career is so fake? This is why pop fans are joke.
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Post by Naos on Jun 24, 2018 4:09:18 GMT -5
LOL one flop now her whole career is so fake? This is why pop fans are joke. Or maybe your assessment is why stans are a joke?
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