Avril Lavigne - "Breakaway"

[SabrinaFan]

Avril has just released her cover of Kelly Clarkson's "Breakaway," which she originally had a co-write credit on.

[Deleted]

Would we call it a cover?

[erzo01]

This is actually included in the 20th anniversary edition of her debut album Let Go.

[Au$tin]

Jun 6, 2022 22:39:30 GMT -5 @silver16 said:

Would we call it a cover?

I personally wouldn't. She's the original writer, it was going to be on her album initially until she passed it along, she recorded a demo long before it got to Kelly. I'm not really sure if there's a term for what this is, but it's not a cover. To me, a cover is when someone not initially involved in the creation of the track performs/records the track after its initial commercial release. So Kelly's is the original, but Avril's is the... origin?

You could look at it like Taylor Swift releasing her version of "Babe" on Red TV. She originally wrote it, but passed it along to Sugarland, who recorded and released the first commercially available version. But Taylor's 2021 recording isn't a cover of "Babe," it's just her releasing a recording of her doing the song she was involved in creating beforehand.

At least this is all how I view it. Anyway, stream "Breakaway (Avril's Version)"!

[jenglisbe]

Jun 7, 2022 12:36:17 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Jun 6, 2022 22:39:30 GMT -5 @silver16 said:

Would we call it a cover?

I personally wouldn't. She's the original writer, it was going to be on her album initially until she passed it along, she recorded a demo long before it got to Kelly. I'm not really sure if there's a term for what this is, but it's not a cover. To me, a cover is when someone not initially involved in the creation of the track performs/records the track after its initial commercial release. So Kelly's is the original, but Avril's is the... origin?

You could look at it like Taylor Swift releasing her version of "Babe" on Red TV. She originally wrote it, but passed it along to Sugarland, who recorded and released the first commercially available version. But Taylor's 2021 recording isn't a cover of "Babe," it's just her releasing a recording of her doing the song she was involved in creating beforehand.

At least this is all how I view it. Anyway, stream "Breakaway (Avril's Version)"!

When were each actually recorded?

If this is an old recording, it's not a cover. If Avril (and Taylor in the other example) recorded it now after another version was a hit, it's a cover.

[Au$tin]

Jun 7, 2022 13:13:43 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Jun 7, 2022 12:36:17 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

I personally wouldn't. She's the original writer, it was going to be on her album initially until she passed it along, she recorded a demo long before it got to Kelly. I'm not really sure if there's a term for what this is, but it's not a cover. To me, a cover is when someone not initially involved in the creation of the track performs/records the track after its initial commercial release. So Kelly's is the original, but Avril's is the... origin?

You could look at it like Taylor Swift releasing her version of "Babe" on Red TV. She originally wrote it, but passed it along to Sugarland, who recorded and released the first commercially available version. But Taylor's 2021 recording isn't a cover of "Babe," it's just her releasing a recording of her doing the song she was involved in creating beforehand.

At least this is all how I view it. Anyway, stream "Breakaway (Avril's Version)"!

When were each actually recorded?

If this is an old recording, it's not a cover. If Avril (and Taylor in the other example) recorded it now after another version was a hit, it's a cover.

I don't think I agree with that. The demos existed long before Kelly Clarkson and Sugarland got ahold of them and these new recordings aren't modeled after the Kelly and Sugarland versions, they're modeled after the original demos. I mean, she even keeps the original demo's lyrics in this new* recording. "When the rain would fall down" is still "When the snow would fall down" here, for example. Like if Jessie J were to release a recording of "Party in the U.S.A." with the original lyrics of coming to the US from the UK, I wouldn't call that a cover of Miley's song just because Miley's recording released first. Jessie J still wrote the original.

This is Avril's original demo.


Can you really call a song a cover if you wrote it?

*I actually don't know when this particular recording was done. "Babe" from the Red TV was obviously in 2021, but this "Breakaway" recording here released with 20th anniversary Let Go could literally be from any point. Avril's voice really hasn't changed much in 20 years lol. If I were a betting man, though, I'd bet the vocals from this recording were done in 2019 when Avril had "Breakway" on her tour setlist.

Also, to add even more confusion, Taylor still has background vocals in Sugarland's "Babe."

Personally, artists who were involved in the creation of the song releasing new recordings later on aren't doing covers, they're just doing new recordings. It's just not at all the same as someone not involved at all with the original track releasing a recording of it years later like Avril has done before with "Knockin' on Heaven's Door," "Bad Reputation," and "How You Remind Me."

There's also the fact that one could absolutely do a cover of a cover. Take "Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This)" for example. There's two very popular versions of the song: the original Eurythmics version and the Marilyn Manson cover. Both tracks are the same song, but the recordings are in pretty different styles from each other and it's totally possible to do a cover inspired by one version but not the other. Marilyn Manson's version is a cover of Eurythmics because it is inspired by the Eurythmics version, but if, say, Machine Gun Kelly were to do a new version of the song inspired by Marilyn Manson's, would it be a cover of Eurythmics or a cover of Marilyn Manson. Both technically since it's the same song, but also not because he'd be making a rock cover inspired by Marilyn and not a dance cover inspired by Eurythmics. In my eyes, to do a cover means to take inspiration from a version that came before, and that's not what's happening here since this recording is based off of Avril's original demo.

If anything, it's more correct (though I'd still argue it's not) to say Kelly's "Breakaway" is a cover of Avril's. But like I said, I wouldn't consider that to be correct either since in order to be a cover, there needs to be a version of the song commercially available beforehand. You're no longer recording a cover at that point, you're recording the first version to ever be released.

And note that being released commercially doesn't necessarily mean "to be purchased," it just means "to be consumed by a larger audience," so this can include tracks that can be intentionally consumed for free.

TL;DR:
In my mind
Cover - a new recording based off a previous commercially available version of a song you had no involvement in (if I were to release a recording of "Breakaway," could be inspired by either Kelly's or Avril's version)
Rerecording - a new recording of a song you have worked on previously (this new 2022 version of "Breakaway," inspired by the original demo)
Original - the very first version to be released commercially (Kelly's version of "Breakaway" released in 2004)
Demo - the first version to ever exist, commercially released or not (Avril's first recording of "Breakaway" posted above from 2000)

[Devil Marlena Nylund]

Jun 7, 2022 13:13:43 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Jun 7, 2022 12:36:17 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

I personally wouldn't. She's the original writer, it was going to be on her album initially until she passed it along, she recorded a demo long before it got to Kelly. I'm not really sure if there's a term for what this is, but it's not a cover. To me, a cover is when someone not initially involved in the creation of the track performs/records the track after its initial commercial release. So Kelly's is the original, but Avril's is the... origin?

You could look at it like Taylor Swift releasing her version of "Babe" on Red TV. She originally wrote it, but passed it along to Sugarland, who recorded and released the first commercially available version. But Taylor's 2021 recording isn't a cover of "Babe," it's just her releasing a recording of her doing the song she was involved in creating beforehand.

At least this is all how I view it. Anyway, stream "Breakaway (Avril's Version)"!

When were each actually recorded?

If this is an old recording, it's not a cover. If Avril (and Taylor in the other example) recorded it now after another version was a hit, it's a cover.

A “cover” implies that it’s a new take of an existing version of the song, which this isn’t. Avril isn’t covering Kelly. She’s releasing her version of the song she created, which existed before Kelly’s version. Maybe there’s no term for it yet, but unless Avril’s take was somehow inspired by Kelly’s version (ie, the melody or delivery), a cover it is not.

[jenglisbe]

Jun 7, 2022 13:30:44 GMT -5 Devil Marlena Nylund said:

Jun 7, 2022 13:13:43 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

When were each actually recorded?

If this is an old recording, it's not a cover. If Avril (and Taylor in the other example) recorded it now after another version was a hit, it's a cover.

A “cover” implies that it’s a new take of an existing version of the song, which this isn’t. Avril isn’t covering Kelly. She’s releasing her version of the song she created, which existed before Kelly’s version. Maybe there’s no term for it yet, but unless Avril’s take was somehow inspired by Kelly’s version (ie, the melody or delivery), a cover it is not.

There are plenty of covers that weren't inspired by the original version or most well-known version.

And if Avril recorded this version within the past 3 years, it is literally a new take of an existing version.

We don't all have to agree, it's just the way I see it.

[Devil Marlena Nylund]

A hypothetical example I thought of was, what if Dolly’s version of I Will Always Love You was never publicly released but at some point after Whitney’s, she decides to finally release it and it’s in the same style as the way she wrote it, which is very unlike Whitney’s version. Would that be a cover?

That’s how I think of this. The difference being, of course, that Kelly’s version isn’t much different from what Avril wrote based on that demo.

Another example might be with artists known for writing for other musicians but who also record their own songs. Lori McKenna is the sole writer of “Humble and Kind,” a number one country hit for Tim McGraw. After his version, she included her own recording on her own album.

[jenglisbe]

Jun 7, 2022 13:52:02 GMT -5 Devil Marlena Nylund said:

A hypothetical example I thought of was, what if Dolly’s version of I Will Always Love You was never publicly released but at some point after Whitney’s, she decides to finally release it and it’s in the same style as the way she wrote it, which is very unlike Whitney’s version. Would that be a cover?

In that example, it sounds like Dolly's version was recorded before Whitney's version, though.

Let me provide a hypothetical twist on the example you used; if Whitney and David had never heard Dolly's version (and I have no idea if either actually had), is her version still a 'cover' since to that degree it would be no different to them than a brand new song presented to them to record?

[Deleted]

I don’t think it’s a cover, even if it’s a newly recorded version. It’s just their newest version of a song they created for themselves.

[Devil Marlena Nylund]

Jun 7, 2022 14:03:45 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Jun 7, 2022 13:52:02 GMT -5 Devil Marlena Nylund said:

A hypothetical example I thought of was, what if Dolly’s version of I Will Always Love You was never publicly released but at some point after Whitney’s, she decides to finally release it and it’s in the same style as the way she wrote it, which is very unlike Whitney’s version. Would that be a cover?

In that example, it sounds like Dolly's version was recorded before Whitney's version, though.

Let me provide a hypothetical twist on the example you used; if Whitney and David had never heard Dolly's version (and I have no idea if either actually had), is her version still a 'cover' since to that degree it would be no different to them than a brand new song presented to them to record?

Possibly not if they didn’t have a reference point from which to record it from.

(In the initial example, I had been thinking that Dolly’s was recorded after the Whitney one came out, but using her own originally written version as the reference. Presumably there’d have been a demo or something as a guide from the original writing of it.)

[Choco]

I really like this. It's a well crafted pop song and it shows on both versions.

[Ty]

This is so good. Something I didn't know I needed. I've played the Kelly version for god knows how many times but I actually immediately prefer this version.

[dbhmr]

Almost can't stand this, it sounds like a demo to me still and her harsher vocals don't work with the song's breathy, earthy vibe. This fell into the right artist's hands.

As for the cover conversation, I guess that's the best term for it, but it doesn't ~feel right. I think "version" is the best word choice, but it feels insufficient.

What did people call Pink's recording of "What Do You Want From Me?" It's the same situation.

[Active Aggressive]

Jun 8, 2022 0:57:38 GMT -5 Ty said:

This is so good. Something I didn't know I needed. I've played the Kelly version for god knows how many times but I actually immediately prefer this version.

I'm With You on this one totally. Tbh, I never cared for the song when Kelly sang it, but I have always said that I never cared for the pop-rock version of Kelly anyway, so...yeah. Avril's version>>>>.

[Ty]

Jun 8, 2022 19:26:40 GMT -5 dbhmr said:

Almost can't stand this, it sounds like a demo to me still and her harsher vocals don't work with the song's breathy, earthy vibe. This fell into the right artist's hands.

I respectfully disagree with this diagnosis.

After hearing Avril's version, I must say she adds authenticity to it. Kelly's version, in comparison, is a bit too well-rounded, polished, and mature.

[Devil Marlena Nylund]

The final chorus of Kelly’s is better though. It feels more climactic. Avril’s doesn’t hit that sweet spot. But I do enjoy Avril’s otherwise though it totally wouldn’t have fit on Let Go.

[Dylan :)]

This is so good!! The Kelly version is good, but this is so much better. I feel the song suits Avril's vocals so much more, especially in the chorus

[#brayden]

I prefer Kelly's voice/version but this isn't bad by any means. I enjoyed it.

[MyLastView]

This is really just such a good song. I really enjoy her version! Kelly’s is still obviously fab. It’s great to hear Avril’s take on it since she wrote it.

[Dylan :)]

I am HOOKED on this, I can’t stop listening. Perfection

[Au$tin]

This confirms my suspicion of it being a new recording, but it looks like it's from this year! Or at the very least recorded during the Love Sux recording sessions.

Interesting that none of the other bonus tracks were rerecorded, but this one was. They could have just used the old recorded demo and beefed up the production a bit, but decided to go with the rerecording route.

[Deleted]

It was definitely a new recording, you can tell by the changes in her voice.