Bringing Back PeopleBase?

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Ok, I've kinda been thinking alittle bit about PeopleBase lately and how I said I'd bring it back in some form on the new boards. It's been about two months since the last chart was made. My plans are, if I decide to bring it back, is to continue from where the last chart left off with weeks and peak position (for songs that that chart and the first new chart have in common). So hopefully I can get all of the PeopleBase stuff off of Bryan.

Now, one of the main things that led to the end of PeopleBase was probably it's complete disorderly fashion. It was so unorganized. I'm not sure how to really organize it so that the chart itself would look relatively "clean". I was kinda thinking of going by a more strict "going for adds" list. Not really limiting the songs people could add but offer a better idea of what songs are to add instead of people just throwing on a bunch of songs.

Payola also really added to the disorganization that PeopleBase resulted in. There's no way to "ban" payola from people's list but it would have to be controlled to such an extent so that it doesn't fully control the chart.

I would have a removal rule of some sort for songs. I'm thinking more along the lines of Once a song falls below the halfway point (#25) and it's 20 weeks old or older without a bullet, it will be removed. Once a song falls below the Top 10 and it's 30 weeks old or older without a bullet, it will be removed. For people saying there'll always be a way around this, yeah, that's true. But, in addition to the stuff I'll discuss below, it'll be harder. A song can't be #26 in its 21st week on with a bullet and then have a continuous bullet for months on end. At some point, it will falter.

Also, another major thing is that charts/playlists won't be emailed to me but posted via the boards. An idea brought up by Rob64 that I never thought about was that they could be PMed to me. Thus keeping them private but you'd still have to be a member of these boards. This also ensures that lists can't be sent in by people who (a) don't post here or, (b) don't exist. So for the people with the issue that the chart could be done up by other people first before they determine their own lists, this won't be a problem.

As of now, the main obsticle for me and bringing PeopleBase back is time contraints. My own chart is late almost every week so depending on how much time it takes to do PeopleBase each week could have an effect on whether or not I want to do it. So the format of the playlists will be important too. I won't be strict with trends though. All I'd want is, in this format:
Points - Artist - Title (whether it's an add or not)

And then list the drops. So, for example:

99 Chantal Kreviazuk - Waiting (add)
56 Rob64 - Get To You

Drops:
Madonna - Hollywood

That would make it a lot easier for me to do the chart in Microsoft Excel and have it compiled within a short amount of time.
The charts would also be released here on the boards and not on a website. If topics get deleted after a couple months here, I'd still have the charts and points on record anyways for the purposes of backtracking.

Anyways, what I'm looking for are suggestions and whether or not you're interested in this. If there are enough people interested, I'll give it a go.

[Mega248]

I'm interested.

[FreakyFlyBry]

Sounds like you've got some good ideas. I like the PM's idea, that way the voting's still done in private while ensuring nobody sends in multiple lists. I had problems with e-mail fraud with the old PeopleBase, so the PM's idea I think would work.

May I suggest that all the weeks on and peak positions start over with this chart? As in, all the songs on the first chart will start with 1 week on and whatever position they're at as their peak.

If I do decide to participate, I will not use any payola, since that was part of the reason why the old PeopleBase became corrupt. I'll likely contribute straight from my personal chart.

I also approve of the recurrent rule to prevent any songs from staying on too long for retaliation purposes or whatever.

I'll make my decision whether or not I want to participate once all the final details have been decided on.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

FreakyFlyBry said:

May I suggest that all the weeks on and peak positions start over with this chart? As in, all the songs on the first chart will start with 1 week on and whatever position they're at as their peak.

I'm not too keen on this idea though because one thing I like about PB is its history. I'd want to carry over the records of longest #1s and biggest movers and all that stuff. I'd say a lot of the songs will be new anyway. Probably less than half of the songs on the last chart will be on the first potential new one anyway. Plus, this would speed the recurrent rule alittle bit too.

One thing I forgot to add above was the point systems. 1000 points per playlist seems find and I guess 99 points max for one song but a lot of people would just send in a list with ten songs on 99 points and then one song with 10 points. As a result, there MAY be a possible minumum: 15 song limit on playlists. My idea for the new PeopleBase is to have playlists look like actual playlists.

Discuss ideas and concerns in this topic! Keep them coming!

[FreakyFlyBry]

Mister said:

One thing I forgot to add above was the point systems. 1000 points per playlist seems find and I guess 99 points max for one song but a lot of people would just send in a list with ten songs on 99 points and then one song with 10 points. As a result, there MAY be a possible minumum: 15 song limit on playlists. My idea for the new PeopleBase is to have playlists look like actual playlists.

Discuss ideas and concerns in this topic! Keep them coming!

I personally like that idea. I almost always included at least 15 songs on my list, and I noticed that way too many songs tied in points when too many people sent in lists with 10 songs at 99 points each.

[Matt4319]

While I recognize the need for changes to the old PeopleBase system, we can't have this chart turn into a Pulse 100 clone. I don't see the problem with 11-song (ten 99s and a 10) playlists.

I think the payola and email fraud problems were somewhat related to each other, so if you get rid of one problem (fake names), that clears up the other problem a little bit. The chart would lose some of its identity if payola were tightly restricted.

The PM idea is a good one, and I have no objections to it.

[Radical347]

Definitely start over with the weeks. That way, the songs that weren't able to chart during the hiatus won't be punished, and songs from earlier that would have otherwise been victims of recurrent rules (but do we really need these?????) won't have an unfair advantage.

[JCMF3]

I think it is worthwhile for someone to try to bring PB back. HOWEVER, I am 100% against any sort of recurrent rules. Why? Well, the only reason you are adding them is because other members insanely kept songs up just to piss off other members. But, the real essence of PB should be to represent the songs that people like. In fact, that was the initial intent to form this chart.

Think about it - suppose John Doe releases a song that 80% of the paneljust LOVES and keeps at the top of their playlists for a few months. Why should I have to drop a song from my playlist just because it is no longer on the chart? And if you're going to say that you will still count points for it (like recurrent airplay on the real charts), then my response will be why have the recurrent rule anyways? Those select people that pushed songs onto the list just to piss people off did it to gain major points for their song. Hence, these recurrent rules will not accomplish that.

And I hate to bring this up on these boards, but nothing you have suggested or proposed will eliminate the pisses of s*** that came out of the PPI camp and cluttered up nearly 20% of the old PB chart. Do you have any suggestions on that?

[BlahBlahBlah]

lol... that is so funny. So I guess we should also eliminate say umm... "Shake Ya Tailfeather" from the chart too, because that piece of s*** is what a lot of people hate too!

[jond7699]

I have got a stupid question. What is Peoplebase? I saw the threads on the R&R board but never paid much attention to them.

[FreakyFlyBry]

jond7699 said:

I have got a stupid question. What is Peoplebase? I saw the threads on the R&R board but never paid much attention to them.

It was a chart compiled by "playlists" sent by members of the R&R boards. The playlists were supposed to be like radio station playlists, with spins assigned to songs. As time passed, payola deals between members had developed, allowing strategy to get songs higher up. After the founder (nickstorm) resigned, I took over as chart manager, and stayed there until the R&R boards shut down, at which time PeopleBase shut down.

[jond7699]

Well I am definitely interested in this idea. Let me know if you need any help Max

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

JCMF3 said:

I think it is worthwhile for someone to try to bring PB back. HOWEVER, I am 100% against any sort of recurrent rules. Why? Well, the only reason you are adding them is because other members insanely kept songs up just to piss off other members. But, the real essence of PB should be to represent the songs that people like. In fact, that was the initial intent to form this chart.

Think about it - suppose John Doe releases a song that 80% of the paneljust LOVES and keeps at the top of their playlists for a few months. Why should I have to drop a song from my playlist just because it is no longer on the chart? And if you're going to say that you will still count points for it (like recurrent airplay on the real charts), then my response will be why have the recurrent rule anyways? Those select people that pushed songs onto the list just to piss people off did it to gain major points for their song. Hence, these recurrent rules will not accomplish that.

Although you do bring about a valid point, most of the time, old songs that were held on to for long periods of time were by artists who had had followups. The recurrent rule isn't something that I stand by 110% like the posting playlists on the board idea (which is now involving PMing the playlists) but I'd still prefer to have it. I did make it relatively lenient thought in that if a song is able to keep a bullet. I guess depending on people's opinions on a recurrent rule, I won't make it final just yet. I'd like more discussion on it. But it is an option that I don't want to make a "Case Closed" of in the future.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Ok, guys. I was thinking more about it and I thought of an interesting new twist that I'd like your input on. It's kind of a similarity to Audience Impressions.

Basically, the goal of PeopleBase is to make Radio playlists if you ran a station.

Ok, let's say Week 1 we all send in our Playlists. A chart is compiled from those lists. Fine enough.

I put the chart online and post the playlists by giving them a random number or code (also note that I won't post the author of the playlists. It's up to you if you want to make your playlist made public that it's yours).

For Week 2, when you send in a playlist, you'll have the option to name a specific playlist by naming the code that you thought was a good list and if it was a real station, you'd listen to it. You can name up to a maximum of, let's say 5 lists. For every list that recieves a "vote" by another member, that person's next list will recieve 25% more points. (For example, a song they have at 50 points will count 12.5 (or 13) points of the total on the chart). If you recieve two votes, the value of a song's points will increase by 50% and so on. The reason why I wouldn't mention the owners of each list is to keep it relatively unbiased. It would be your own descretion.

So then when the chart for Week 2 is released, the playlists that received votes based on the previous week would have "extra value" for that week. However, they won't know that their list got voted on until the new chart is released. It adds another dimension to payola also!

So basically, the goal of making a playlist is to make one that other people would like if you're interested in having "extra value".

------------------------------------------------
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I'll give an example.

------------------------------------------------

Week 1:
I submit a playlist like the following:
99 Chantal - What If It All
99 Jewel - Stand
50 Rob64 - Get To You
10 Chantal - Waiting

And Bryan submits the following list:
50 Beyounce - Baby Boy
50 3 Doors Down - Here Without You
50 Trapt - Headstrong
50 Fountains Of Wayne - Stacy's Mom

The chart is tabulated based on the above points and released, and the playlists are both released but are given codes, such as:
Playlist #1
99 Chantal - What If It All
99 Jewel - Stand
50 Rob64 - Get To You
10 Chantal - Waiting

Playlist #2
50 Beyounce - Baby Boy
50 3 Doors Down - Here Without You
50 Trapt - Headstrong
50 Fountains Of Wayne - Stacy's Mom

------------------------------------------------

Week 2:
Let's say JCMF3 sends in his list of the following:
50 Christina Aguilera - The Voice Within
50 Celine Dion - Stand By Your Man
30 Train - When I Look To The Sky

He'll also add on the bottom of his playlist:
Playlists to vote for: Playlist #2

So when I get that list, I'll take that vote from JCMF into account and then when Bryan sends in his list, the point values for it will be increased by 25% when totalled into PeopleBase. So for example, Bryan's new list is:

50 Beyounce - Baby Boy
50 3 Doors Down - Here Without You
50 Eminem - Lose Yourself
50 Nelly Furtado - Powerless

Then the total point values for each song will be 50+(25%=12.5 (rounded up to 13)) or 63 points. So the "Revised" list is:

63 Beyounce - Baby Boy
63 3 Doors Down - Here Without You
63 Eminem - Lose Yourself
63 Nelly Furtado - Powerless

The only thing is that JCMF3 doesn't know he voted for Bryan's list, only that he voted for the maker of list #2 last week and Bryan wouldn't know that his list got the vote until the new chart is released, in which case, it would show up as:

List #1:
50 Christina Aguilera - The Voice Within
50 Celine Dion - Stand By Your Man
30 Train - When I Look To The Sky

List #2: (25%/1 vote extra value)
50 Beyounce - Baby Boy
50 3 Doors Down - Here Without You
50 Eminem - Lose Yourself
50 Nelly Furtado - Powerless

So this is my idea of a similar chart like audience impressions. If you make a playlist appealing to other contributors, they may vote for your list and you'll get extra credit. It will all be done in secret on my part and you can reveal who you vote for on your own descretion.

I hope I explained it well and look forward to your input and comments!

[FreakyFlyBry]

That sounds like an idea worth trying, but would it take too much time to compile?

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Probably not, I'd just compile the points as usual and then take into account whose playlists receive votes and then add on the "extra value" of the lists.

The idea would present a weighted system but it's up to each person to make a list that they think would "attract listeners." Of course, it's totally up to them how they make their lists again and there's no rule saying you HAVE to vote for other lists if you don't want to.

[billcs]

If you can spell it all out in a complete FAQ on a webpage somewhere, maybe a majority of readers of this forum will be interested. The changes have me a bit intrigued!

[EvanJ]

JCMF3 said:

And I hate to bring this up on these boards, but nothing you have suggested or proposed will eliminate the pisses of s*** that came out of the PPI camp and cluttered up nearly 20% of the old PB chart. Do you have any suggestions on that?

Maybe limit how many points a person can give to user songs.

[codenut]

Mike,

You have some great ideas.......but you have to make the rules simple to the point where everyone can do it without it taking much time.

I'll do PeopleBase if it starts back up......and I'll try my best to make it easier for everyone to get involved (making an easy-to-use templete, making user songs available on my radio station, etc.........)

[ljaesch]

Mike --

You've got some interesting ideas. One question I have concerning voting for playlists:

Would people be allowed to vote for their own playlist, or would this be a "no-no"?

[halo19]

I think it's a good enough idea, but I hope that there's no fights that are similar to the ones on R&R. Also, I agree that there shouldn't be a recurrent rule, and how pointless that is. If someone does payola for a song that I do not hate, I will accept, just like over there. So basically, recurrent rules are the only thing I disagree with.

[j]

Perhaps you can use the poll function or some vote-tracking thing on the Peoplebase website to help keep track of the number of votes for playlists.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

codenut said:

Mike,

You have some great ideas.......but you have to make the rules simple to the point where everyone can do it without it taking much time.

I'll do PeopleBase if it starts back up......and I'll try my best to make it easier for everyone to get involved (making an easy-to-use templete, making user songs available on my radio station, etc.........)

Well, this way the rules will basically be the same as before except if people want to, they can "vote" for other playlists and those playlists will receive 25% "extra credit" for every vote. There won't be any extra work on the part of the voters or none at all if they choose not to vote for other lists. The only main difference in terms of how things will be presented is that I won't give who owns each list. The reason why I'm not doing that is because of biases on the board. Some people will probably vote/not vote for other's lists because of who they are. So I'd leave that part up to you.
I'll probably make up a Q&A section for the chart in itself.

Maybe limit how many points a person can give to user songs.

Doubtful because the definition of "user song" isn't specific enough and if that can be done, rules would have to be stretched to limit points toward rap songs or artists signed to Jive Records or whatnot.

Would people be allowed to vote for their own playlist, or would this be a "no-no"?

Thanks Lesley! That's a VERY important point that I missed and yes, the answer will be no. Voting for one's list won't be accounted for.

I think it's a good enough idea, but I hope that there's no fights that are similar to the ones on R&R. Also, I agree that there shouldn't be a recurrent rule, and how pointless that is. If someone does payola for a song that I do not hate, I will accept, just like over there. So basically, recurrent rules are the only thing I disagree with.

I'm against recurrent rules for the most part too. I'd rather the R&R charts not have them but sometimes, imo, enough is enough. However, it was also my opinion on the old PeopleBase chart that if enough people wanted a song on and/or high on the chart, there's no reason why it shouldn't be there. So I guess for now, a recurrent rule will be put aside but like I said before, I'd rather not eliminate the option altogether.

Perhaps you can use the poll function or some vote-tracking thing on the Peoplebase website to help keep track of the number of votes for playlists.

What do you mean and as opposed to what? The voting for other playlists will be something that would need to be kept strict so I think the best way to do this would be to have people vote when they send in their own playlists. This would eliminate the possibility of someone voting twice for the same list in the same week or multiple voting of one's own list or whatever. But explain your idea because there could be the possibility of something better and/or more accurate.

[Matt4319]

I see where you're going with the 25% extra credit thing, but what if, say, 6 people vote for your playlist? Would your list the next week get a 150% boost?

Maybe the extra credit could be as a percentage of all votes. For example, if there are 40 votes and your playlist gets 4 of them, your next list would get 10% extra credit. If that doesn't turn out to be enough to make things interesting, you could multiply the percentage by 2, 4, 6, whatever.

j said:

Perhaps you can use the poll function or some vote-tracking thing on the Peoplebase website to help keep track of the number of votes for playlists.

If you're talking about a poll on here, it wouldn't work since there are only 8 options and I would assume many more playlists than that.

Outside polls won't be very accurate either, because of the possibility of voting multiple times.

Matt4319 said:

While I recognize the need for changes to the old PeopleBase system, we can't have this chart turn into a Pulse 100 clone. I don't see the problem with 11-song (ten 99s and a 10) playlists.

I think the payola and email fraud problems were somewhat related to each other, so if you get rid of one problem (fake names), that clears up the other problem a little bit. The chart would lose some of its identity if payola were tightly restricted.

The PM idea is a good one, and I have no objections to it.

Sorry for bumping up my own post, but mine was like the only question that wasn't answered, lol.

[dragoneyez]

As I only contributed to a grand total of 5 PB charts (maybe more, I don't remember), maybe my opinions don't mean much, but, if PB is started again and I contribute to it again, I have some things that I'd like to see changed.

1) Trash payolla. The point of the chart is to see what most people like, not to see what person is the best at compaining for their favorite songs.

2) That idea of giving certain playlists more points is intriguing, but I don't really like that either. Again, the idea is to see what everyone likes, and this new idea of giving certain people's charts more influence kills the possibility of people with unique tastes in music, to have their different songs on the chart.

3) Trash some of the user songs. I've heard a few. There are some good / decent ones that are actually artistsic and could be real songs. But, more often than not, they are dumb songs that rip off real songs.

[Matt4319]

dragoneyez said:

1) Trash payolla. The point of the chart is to see what most people like, not to see what person is the best at compaining for their favorite songs.

www.geocities.com/pulsechart

That is the chart that measures what most people here like. Payola is the major distinguishing feature between the Pulse 100 and PeopleBase, and I frankly wouldn't see a point in continuing PB without payola (unless this extra credit/voting thing really takes off).

dragoneyez said:

2) That idea of giving certain playlists more points is intriguing, but I don't really like that either. Again, the idea is to see what everyone likes, and this new idea of giving certain people's charts more influence kills the possibility of people with unique tastes in music, to have their different songs on the chart.

See above.

[ljaesch]

I'm going to be upfront and say that if PeopleBase does come back, I will not be rejoining. This is not due to the fact that I'm angry at anybody or the fact that, because my tastes are so unusual, that very few of the songs on my chart ever make it onto PB.

The reason I will not be returning is the fact that Dan & I are working very hard to turn The AeschTunes Top 40 into a serious chart and radio station, with the eventual hope of our chart & station becoming a resource to help expose more people to the underground synthpop scene. Unfortunately, having The AeschTunes Top 40 being affiliated with a chart like PeopleBase won't do much to help our credibility (because of the payola and politics that have dogged PeopleBase in recent months). However, our chart will still be posted here to count toward The Pulse 100.

Some of you may suggest that I put together a separate playlist to submit to PeopleBase. However, I just don't have the time to put into putting together a separate playlist. I have enough obligations right now between family, housework, websites I maintain, etc., that I really don't have the extra time to work on a separate playlist.

However, I am willing to follow this thread and see what develops, and bring up any issues I see (such as the voting for your own playlist thing I mentioned earlier in this thread). Even though I personally will not be participating in PeopleBase if it's resurrected, I would at least like to be able to, as a former reporter, give input on ideas and ask questions if a detail seems to have been missed (such as the voting for your own playlist question).

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Matt4319 said:

I see where you're going with the 25% extra credit thing, but what if, say, 6 people vote for your playlist? Would your list the next week get a 150% boost?

Maybe the extra credit could be as a percentage of all votes. For example, if there are 40 votes and your playlist gets 4 of them, your next list would get 10% extra credit. If that doesn't turn out to be enough to make things interesting, you could multiply the percentage by 2, 4, 6, whatever.

Well, some stations that contribute to PeopleBase are worth maybe twice as many in audience impression points than other stations, aren't they? So yeah, my idea was if up to 6 people voted, that would be a 150% boost. It does kind of seem like a lot but it's probably not. The % of all votes could be an alternate idea though. We should discuss this one a bit more.

While I recognize the need for changes to the old PeopleBase system, we can't have this chart turn into a Pulse 100 clone. I don't see the problem with 11-song (ten 99s and a 10) playlists.

Sorry for leaving this one out. I meant to answer it but skipped over it. It won't really be a clone since it won't be an inverse chart system like was suggested. The goal for this when making your list is to make a radio station-like playlist. And with the whole voting for extra credit idea, I think it sets PeopleBase apart more from Pulse than ever before because not only is your goal to make a radio-station-like list but to make a list that would appeal to people in order for it to count for extra credit, if you want it to. Someone that makes a list with mass appeal that gets votes from other people will have their next list account for a lot!

I think the payola and email fraud problems were somewhat related to each other, so if you get rid of one problem (fake names), that clears up the other problem a little bit. The chart would lose some of its identity if payola were tightly restricted.

Agreed! Kinda. Although it wasn't really payola that got some unwanted songs high on the chart, I think the main problem was really with the fake names but it just seemed to look like it was a problem with payola. As long as there are no fake names, I'm sure there'll be little problem with payola.

RE: Lesley. Thanks for your additions to this threat and I understand completely your situation and your reasons for not wanting to rejoin so there's definately no hard feelings or anything like that. :)

RE: Dragoneyez. See Matt's post for most of the responses. I think R&R/Pulse and PeopleBase were able to co-exist on the old boards but for here, I'm little sure if there is a purpose that PeopleBase can really serve. I don't want to call a chart "just for fun" because it makes it sound like a waste of time. I'd like to PeopleBase mean something again but with the Pulse Chart held in higher regard more now than ever before, I'm thinking it will be tough for that to ever happen. Thus, PeopleBase will probably be nothing more than just a fun chart, unfortunately. But I wanted to add other dimensions to it to see what it would be like if we all had our own radio stations. This is just a very limited version of that and what we all choose to put on our playlists is up to us so that's why there's no banning or limiting of songs.
Also on the side of payola, since when do stations payola with other stations? ;)

[Diablo Cody™]

I want to see a new peoplebase... :'(

[j]

Mister said:

RE: Lesley. Thanks for your additions to this threat

Thread! Lol.

Someone mentioned that this voting thing could get complicated so I thought an automatic poll function could be useful. But for the reasons Matt mentioned, probably not. Although I don't know who would bother to sit there and click away again and again just to bump their own playlist up. Well, nevermind.