Kelly Clarkson - "My December" Era (PT. 5)

[ashley14]

luisro said:

My two cents:

I've always liked Kelly ever since she won AI. I've bought all her albums and all. My December really reeked at first but it grew on me a hell lot. The album isn't radio friendly yes, but they could've promoted it a hell lot better. For starters, they should've released the album during the fall and promote the album as Kelly's vision and her artistic freedom instead of "the label hated it! Kelly fought for it!" and all that non-sense that made people believe, as I did, that the album was an utter piece of s**t which it isn't.

That said, I don't care if she falls off the chart next week or sells 20 million copies within the next year because I admire her for putting yet another personal record, for being as emotional as she has been, for sticking to her guts, and for still being as adorable as she has always been.

the best post ever. and your right about saying they shoulda released it when Kelly gave it to them back in the winter or released it this fall. I also thought the album was bad but once kelly said they didnt like BOY either i gave it another thought and listened to it.

[Bluesy]

ashley14 said:

I dont know if im misunderstanding u or something. but what your saying is that because she wrote it at 24 means that she has no emtional pain at all. She has gone through a lot. her parents divorce. her friend commiting suicide, being called fat, no one believes in you and being cheated on. Im 14 and trust me half the nights I cry myself to sleep because of emotional pain. does that mean im not really feeling emotional pain to?

Ashley, sorry for not responding to you much earlier today. But I can't use the internet while at work. I can only post early in the morning before I go to work, and in the evening after I get home.

Yes, you definitely misunderstood me. I did not say, and did not mean to imply, that a young person cannot feel emotional pain. To many, if not most adults, "My December" is a metaphor for the senior years in a person's life.

Have you ever heard the term "May-December romance?" That's a metaphor for when a young person has an affair with and/or marries someone much, much older.

Here's another example from the world of music. There is a famous old tune called "September Song" written in early 1900's and recorded by many top vocalists. Perhaps Frank Sinatra's version is the best known. This song is about aging. When we are young, it's the springtime of our lives. As we age, we move into the summer, fall and winter of our lives. Here's the lyrics to "September Song:"

When I was a young man a-courtin' the girls,
I played me a waitin' game;
If a maid refused me with a toss of her curls,
I'd let the ol' world take a couple of twirls,
And I'd ply her with tears instead of pearls,
And as time came around she came my way,
As time came around, she came.

Refrain:

But it's a long, long time from May to December,
And the days grow short when you reach September;
When the autumn weather turns the leaves to flame,
One hasn't got time for the waiting game.

Oh, the days dwindle down to a precious few...
Sep-tem-ber...No-vem-ber...
And these few precious days I'll spend with you,
These precious days I'll spend with you.
##

Here's a version I found on YouTube by Sinatra and John Denver: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFP3UmMQgLA Not the best version of the song I've ever heard, but it will give you an idea of what the title "My December" conveys to me.

So, to me, the title "My December" is odd coming from a 24-year-old singer who is in the springtime of her life. This doesn't mean in any way that she can't feel or express emotional pain. In fact, it has nothing to do with emotion at all.

My second sentence in that paragraph reads, "With the majority of songs on it being all about a juvenile take on emotional pain and suffering?" Please read it more closely. Again, I'm not saying that Kelly can't feel emotional pain because she's 24. I'm saying the way she expressed the emotional pain on the album is juvenile. In my opinion.

[Bluesy]

myreflection said:

I'm sorry I just laugh at the idea that Kelly being only 24 means she's not felt real pain.

Please see my reply to Ashley about this.

As for this comment of yours: "music4aw I respect your right to voice your opinion and if you and your circle of friends think this album is too dark and joyless then I'm happy for you that you can't relate to it because that tells me that you've never been hurt to a depth that leaves lasting impressions. I hope that remains true for your entire life."

I just have to laugh at how I was accused of being condescending. Your post just drips condescension and uncalled for nastiness. I'm sorry for the hard times you've had in your life, but as usual, your assumptions about others -- in this case me -- are wildly off the mark. However, I'm not going to sit here and play tit-for-tat with you about the hard lives we've each had. That kind of stuff does not belong on this thread or this board.

[Bluesy]

underneathobsidian said:

Like I said, you have said many things I agree with, but this is kind of offbase. Lots of different people have experienced things like pain and addiction at all different types of ages. You do not have to be old to feel pain or have a friend stab you in the back.

Please see the response I wrote a few minutes ago to Ashley. Thank you.

As for the goth comment, that's my opinion of this album and the cover art. Why is that off base?

[THE LEGENDARY SAINT LUISRO]

I already have a SMASH post! Damn I'm good

[JORDAN]

pce2b said:

I have probably posted this several times, and I am not looking for a response, just to share...

I am 100% on board with that guy at Entertainment Weekly. Can I Have a Kiss is pop magic. The hook is flat out awesome. Definitely my favorite track. It makes me very happy. :)

I agree, CIHAK is one of my favorites. :)

[Mike]

CIHAK = still blah for me. I was starting to warm up to it, but yeah... Definitely one of my least favorites on the record. I can't even believe they were/are considering it for a single. I really don't see it being a hit at all.

[ClevelandRox]

I hate to be a hater because I <3 Kelly, but I am P R A Y I N G that How I Feel is not the third single. I'm hoping for Can I have a Kiss<3

[gbaby]

I want "Yeah" and "Maybe" released at some point. I think those are her best bets.

That said....I don't think she has great odds of having a radio hit from this album. If "Sober" hasn't cut it, I'm not sure anything else will.

I really love the album though.

[gbaby]

Oh, and I have to mention - "Chivas"? I can't get enough of it.

She laid it down. lol. Alcoholic Kelly is great, I guess.

[TimeFlies]

gv0928 said:

Oh, and I have to mention - "Chivas"? I can't get enough of it.

She laid it down. lol. Alcoholic Kelly is great, I guess.

I love "Chivas"!

[trente31]

And pce, I agree with you that Can I Have a Kiss is a great song. It's absolutely false that there are no hooks on this album. It's almost laughable. I remember some big time and well respected posters on this board saying that SUBG didn't have a hook. Hooks are in the ear of the beholder. Personally my ears think "Judas" and "HIF" definately have very strong hooks. There are so many songs on this album that could be hits if Clive cared. He doesn't though.

There are A LOT of potential hits on "My December."

Go, Kelly! :)

[SILENCE]

I just have to laugh at how I was accused of being condescending. Your post just drips condescension and uncalled for nastiness. I'm sorry for the hard times you've had in your life, but as usual, your assumptions about others -- in this case me -- are wildly off the mark. However, I'm not going to sit here and play tit-for-tat with you about the hard lives we've each had. That kind of stuff does not belong on this thread or this board.

so me saying I hope you never feel the kind of pain that leaves a lasting impression on you is nasty? LMAO... trust me, people have seen me be nasty...that wasn't it...but you're getting closer...

To many, if not most adults, "My December" is a metaphor for the senior years in a person's life.

Have you ever heard the term "May-December romance?

I think I see what you're saying but I don't think that's how Kelly has explained the title of the album. She's said it means an end to a bad period and the beginning of a new fresher start. I do know the term "in the december of my life" which is the end of a person life but it can also mean what Kelly meant too. I don't think most people give that much thought to the title of an album or at least I don't LOL.

Here is what I think....IF Kelly had put out Breakaway 2.0 and quite possibly had seen numbers similar to what we're seeing with MD, some people and perhaps the same people would be saying she's flopping because she didn't take a chance and she relied on what already worked and people already have Breakaway and don't need another version.

Kelly was in a lose lose in this situation because IMO this album was never gonna sell as well as BA and Kelly has unforunately acquired a few non fans along the path to her amazing success, out of jealousy and bitterness IMO, not to mention that some people are just tired of hearing her. So she was much better off putting out an album of material she wanted and just letting the chips fall where they may.

music4aw, I read you posting history, it's clear you are a fan of Kelly's. I don't think you're getting your post across however because of the way you are choosing to frame your opinion. People are very reactionary when it comes to their favorites, it's human nature (as you so eloquently stated in a thread discussion on that very topic) and honestly this thread and all Kelly related discussion for the last lil while has been bogged down with negative energy so perhaps we're just overly sensitive at this point to it all.

peace

[GroovyGirl]

One Minute and Hole would make brilliant singles. I hope they are the 3rd and 4th singles, respectively.

[ashley14]

music4aw i get you now.

[pinkfanboy]

crox said:

I hate to be a hater because I <3 Kelly, but I am P R A Y I N G that How I Feel is not the third single. I'm hoping for Can I have a Kiss<3

It'd do well though. She needs HIF or DWYT because they're radio friendly. And an era without a radio friendly single could be a flop era.

gv0928 said:

I want "Yeah" and "Maybe" released at some point. I think those are her best bets.
That said....I don't think she has great odds of having a radio hit from this album. If "Sober" hasn't cut it, I'm not sure anything else will.

Yeah as a single would be :o.
I don't think people would really get the song.

myreflection said:

I think I see what you're saying but I don't think that's how Kelly has explained the title of the album. She's said it means an end to a bad period and the beginning of a new fresher start.

Didn't I hear/read somewhere that 'My December' got it's title through the fact that December is around the holidays and people put away their anger and other emotions and bring out their happy? And in this album Kelly's putting away her anger and bringing out her happy? Or in other words, letting her anger out so she can fill herself with happy? (God I suck at saying things. Basically I think I just said the same as you, just in a more confusing way.)

transformers said:

One Minute and Hole would make brilliant singles. I hope they are the 3rd and 4th singles, respectively.

One Minute would be hot, Hole I think not.
If she were to release any of the 'rockier' songs between Hole or Haunted I think Haunted would be a better choice. Don't get me wrong, I love Hole ALOT, but I don't think other people will. Like how (on the last board?) during the first few pages when Hole leaked alot of people kept posting it at the bottom of their favorite list. And I only remember like two or three people putting it in their top 3.

[Deleted]

Kelly Clarkson's decision to challenge Clive Davis may have backfired
(7/20/07) - Did Grammy-winning singer Kelly Clarkson commit career suicide when she took on the iconic music industry executive Clive Davis?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, is what some pop-music charters are whispering as U.S. sales of Clarkson's third album, "My December," begin to slide.

Some industry watchers say Clarkson's decision to ignore the input of Davis, the man many call the "hit maker" -- in favor of penning her own songs -- could keep the nation's first "American Idol" winner off radio's playlist of Top 40 hits.

While fans and many critics have applauded the effort, as of yet there are no radio chart busters from the rock confessional. The album's first single, "Never Again," didn't crack the Top 5 on the Billboard Hot 100.

"It's great she gets to call her own shots, [but] I think it was a mistake not to realize the singles she was releasing were not Top 40 hits," says music industry analyst and blogger Bob Lefsetz. "If you are in the Top 40 world -- you have to have a hit today. You do not have the luxury of a 'stiff.'"

Sales of "My December" are more than respectable -- the record has sold close to 500,000 copies in the three weeks since its release, bringing it close to gold record status. "My December" debuted at No. 2 and this week slipped to No. 5 on the album sales chart.

But the lack of hits from the album so far is in stark contrast to the four No. 1 singles from her multiplatinum selling 2005 album "Breakaway," which earned the songbird from Burleson,Texas, Grammys for Best Female Pop Vocal Performance and Best Pop Vocal Album.

"Breakaway" was composed by a veritable chorus of producers and songwriters assembled by music business auteur Clive Davis. The highly regarded boss of BMG/RCA (formerly of ARISTA) has shaped the hits and careers of many pop stars, including Aretha Franklin, Barry Manilow, Whitney Houston and Carlos Santana.

"Clive Davis is the last of the song guys who has had hit after hit after hit. That doesn't happen by accident," says Maureen Crowe, who worked with Davis as music supervisor on the movie "The Body Guard." "That happens by someone who really loves music, really 'gets it' and works 24/7 to make it better."

Since the release of "My December," Clarkson has fired her manager and canceled a scheduled summer because of poor ticket sales.

"She's now undermined the pop persona Davis and his team carefully crafted. She may never get it back," writes "Fox 411" entertainment reporter Roger Friedman.

Davis Predicted a Dearth of Hits

When it came time to start work on the new album, Clarkson didn't just want to make it better. She wanted to make it hers. She fought off all efforts to deter her -- even after Davis predicted none of the tracks, as written and produced, would be a hit.

The decision to write or co-write all the songs on "My December" turned into a contentious and unusually public struggle with the 75-year-old Davis this spring. Clarkson was reportedly "damned by faint praise" when Davis addressed a hall full of industry sales people assembled to receive the lowdown on promising winners in the BMG/RCA stable of artists.

"It was nice," Clarkson tells editor Craig Marks in the August issue of Blender magazine.

"It was just the two of us and his dog," recalls the singer. "I was like, 'I don't know you very well, and I am not a bu**sh****r. I get you don't like the album. You're 80; you're not suppose to like my album. But Clive, I'm going to make tons of albums. It doesn't have to be mainstream every time.'"

Representatives for Clarkson and Davis at Sony/BMG declined to comment for this story.

But even Clarkson's attempt at reconciliation may have backfired, as at least one important observer took exception to her comments in the magazine. "American Idol" creator and executive producer Simon Cowell has publicly taken issue with Clarkson's views on Davis' value to artists.

"Clive Davis at 80 is better than 99 percent of the people in the music business in their 20s, 30s and 40s. And he's not 80," Cowell told ExtraTV.com. "[Kelly] is one of the best and she always will be, [but Clive] is boss of the record company & it's his job to advise."

The Creative Struggle

Age differences aside, creative struggles between recording artists and their labels are nothing new.

"This is a dispute that goes on quite frequently at almost every label," says Billboard magazine associate editor Katie Hasty.

"He can have an ear for hits, but at the end of the day Clive Davis does business," says Hasty. "It's obvious Clarkson wants to reclaim some of who she is and what she represents beyond just being an 'American Idol' starlet."

Artistic growth is laudable, but is Clarkson established enough to afford the risk of a heartfelt, reflective, personal rock album?

After the cancellation of her tour, Clarkson reportedly blamed her management company for ignoring her pleas to book performances in medium-size venues she could fill with her fans, instead of scheduling concerts in 15,000 and 20,000 seaters she knew would be hard to sell out.

What Does Clarkson's Future Hold?

Clarkson is likely to honor whatever contract she has with BMG/RCA. Business is business, and she is a talented and versatile singer and valuable to the label.

In replacing manager Jeff Kwatinetz and the Firm with Reba McIntire's husband -- and manager -- Narvel Blackstock, Clarkson may be signaling a move in a certain direction.

She has a duet coming out with Reba, and there is speculation that the versatile songbird may decide to winter down South, perhaps near Nashville and its country music lovers who are among her some of her biggest fans.

[Focus]

I don't think so.

[Deleted]

Well, I would have to fall back on a cliche here. It is dangerous to bite the hand that feeds you.

[exquisite]

2m said:

Well, I would have to fall back on a cliche here. It is dangerous to bite the hand that feeds you.

I would not count KC down and out by any stretch of the
imagination, but I agree with your words. It was almost
like thanking Davis for helping her on the road to success
then telling him that she can do it better from now on.

[Berry]

WOW what an article, even a quote from Roger makes it so much better.


But i do agree with the last part:

What Does Clarkson's Future Hold?

Clarkson is likely to honor whatever contract she has with BMG/RCA. Business is business, and she is a talented and versatile singer and valuable to the label.

I think we could hear 2 more album from Kelly rather quick (if its true that her contract is for 5 albums), then after that she will move maybe country or more of an independent label.

[Deleted]

exquisite said:

2m said:

Well, I would have to fall back on a cliche here. It is dangerous to bite the hand that feeds you.

I would not count KC down and out by any stretch of the
imagination, but I agree with your words. It was almost
like thanking Davis for helping her on the road to success
then telling him that she can do it better from now on.

You are only as good as your last album. Turning on the people that made you a star can be a tricky thing.

Although not impossible, since other people have done it, bouncing back from a mediocre album and returning to superstar status could be a tough road.

[un4gitible]

To many, if not most adults, "My December" is a metaphor for the senior years in a person's life.

December, to me, is the end of a year, not the end of a life. It's another chapter in the book of life. And, well, it's out with the old, and in with the new (hence so many New Year's Resolutions - how you will make the next year better than the one before). For me the title was like a closing the book on that chapter of her life - That door is closed and now she will go through the window that has opened. Of course others will see it differently, and they are entitled to, but that's just how I view it.

I have to agree with the statement above of biting the hand that feeds you - atleast to a point. I do think it was important for Kelly to get her side out (especially after RCA and others leaked the info in an attempt to paint this cd as bad before the public even got to hear it) but I also think it's way past time for Kelly to be the one who ends it. IMO she should start saying "You know, it is what it is. I've talked about this to death and there's really nothing more to say. I'm happy. I got my cd out the way I wanted it to get out, for better or for worse. That was all I ever wanted anywho".

I have to smile when I read about how some people really hated the cd at first but then after a couple listens they are like "Holy cow, I actually LIKE this cd. It doesn't suck like I first thought". I think that can be factored in part back to preconceived notions over the comments by Clive that leaked prior to the cd being released. Sometimes all it takes is putting aside those notions and really listening to find that it's OK to disagree with what you've been told, ya know? Hopefully more people will listen - at all, let alone REALLY listen - to this cd before deciding how bad it is. They may find themselves shocked by how much they really do like it. (I'm not talking to you M4All with that statement - I do think you are a fan and you did listen and it's just not the cd for you. It happens. I can sympathize - Everclear went through like 3 cd's that I absolutely hated before coming out with their recent one that I love. But I hope you understand that there ARE some Kelly fans who DO just LOVE this cd - straight up honest, and not just because it's Kelly. Hopefully whatever her direction with the next cd it will be one that you (and Me toooo! I don't wanna be left out haha) will love :) )

[un4gitible]

Turning on the people that made you a star can be a tricky thing.

I think Kelly's singing and personality had a little bit to do with her becoming a star. I get what you are saying but it's not like they 'made' her, you know? She did have a part in it by writing on some songs and then singing the hell out of them (does anyone really think that SUBG would have been as huge a hit if sung by anyone else? I personally don't - especially not in it's original form, before Kelly worked HER magic on it, you know).

Like I said, I get where you are coming from - but I just don't agree 100% with it (count me 80% on board haha). Without promo and support from the label, your job IS that much harder - but not impossible. I still think, in the end, true talent shines through and cream always rises to the top.

[pce2b]

I'm 80% on board as well. This whole thing wouldnt have happened had it not been for Clive's unprofessional presentation on the album - which generated a load of negative press. They really made a big mistake and shot themselves in the foot. If they were that intent on sending a message to her - they should never have agreed to release it. Either release it and support it all the way or don't release it. Letting it go and letting people know how bad its gonna be ahead of time is so backwards to me. The way Clive handled My December does not normally happen at such meetings. I don't think execs should be able to get away with that just because of who they are. At the same time its frustrating because these execs are the ones with the power so artists are limited to an extent at what they can do.
Kelly has never been one to bite her tongue - remember on AI when she said on air to Ryan that she was tired and the competition was "getting old." I was like, "WHAT!!!???" I was so nervous that she would lose her fan base. But thats Kelly - and I have learned to love her for it. She tells it like she sees it and screw the PR. She was not bashing Clive in that magazine - she was recounting what I am sure she said to Clive in person. She should have had a filter for what was said at that meeting, but what can you do. I just want people to be clear that at the end of the day, she is not biting the hands that feeds her, she is justifiably responding to a situation where she was betrayed by her mentor/boss/superior when perhaps it would have been better to just suck it up and wait till she was gone from the label before saying what happened. That being said, I dont think what she has said about the whole thing has made that much of a difference to album sales overall - the negative PR surrounding this album was pretty massive regardless.

[guava]

Kellie on Kelly (from Kellie Pickler's latest inteview in EW):

EW: How do you feel about the Kelly Clarkson controversy? It seems like there are a lot of people rooting for her to fail right now, for some reason.
KP: I'm honestly a really big Kelly Clarkson fan. And I love how she stands her ground. I respect the fact that she said, ''I really want to do it my way this time. I just want to see what it'd be like to put out my music the way I want it to be.'' She could have done a record the exact way that the record label wanted her to do it — there's still gonna be people out there that don't like it. Either way, you can't win for losing. We've got more important things going on in the world today than whether or not you like somebody's song on their album. There's a freakin' war going on.... [but world issues] are not being given half as much attention as Britney Spears for not wearing panties. Who cares? If the girl doesn't want to wear panties, leave her alone. I'd rather focus on my troops that are dying for me so that I can actually sit here and have this conversation with you, and homeless kids that are in shelters, than whether or not Britney has panties on. To tell you the truth, I don't even have any panties on right now. I don't care! Let's focus on things that are important, and let people be happy. Let Kelly absorb — she just made a record, let her enjoy that moment of being able to turn on the radio and hear her song. Let her enjoy her work and her passion.

www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20007164_20008533_20047451_3,00.html

[SILENCE]

It is dangerous to bite the hand that feeds you.

I would argue that it's not Davis' hand that feeds Clarkson but rather Clarkson's hand that feeds Davis since it's HER talent, HER voice, and HER fans who bought 12 million copies of Breakaway and lined his pockets with 100 million in revenue.

[Deleted]

Where is Kelly Clarkson without Clive Davis? Waiting tables in a diner, I would guess.

As the article said, Clive is the boss and he seems to know what he is doing.

[carriefan0209]

guava said:

Kellie on Kelly (from Kellie Pickler's latest inteview in EW):

EW: How do you feel about the Kelly Clarkson controversy? It seems like there are a lot of people rooting for her to fail right now, for some reason.
KP: I'm honestly a really big Kelly Clarkson fan. And I love how she stands her ground. I respect the fact that she said, ''I really want to do it my way this time. I just want to see what it'd be like to put out my music the way I want it to be.'' She could have done a record the exact way that the record label wanted her to do it — there's still gonna be people out there that don't like it. Either way, you can't win for losing. We've got more important things going on in the world today than whether or not you like somebody's song on their album. There's a freakin' war going on.... [but world issues] are not being given half as much attention as Britney Spears for not wearing panties. Who cares? If the girl doesn't want to wear panties, leave her alone. I'd rather focus on my troops that are dying for me so that I can actually sit here and have this conversation with you, and homeless kids that are in shelters, than whether or not Britney has panties on. To tell you the truth, I don't even have any panties on right now. I don't care! Let's focus on things that are important, and let people be happy. Let Kelly absorb — she just made a record, let her enjoy that moment of being able to turn on the radio and hear her song. Let her enjoy her work and her passion.

www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20007164_20008533_20047451_3,00.html

kellie pickler is so weird...but funny

[Haley]

guava said:

Kellie on Kelly (from Kellie Pickler's latest inteview in EW):

EW: How do you feel about the Kelly Clarkson controversy? It seems like there are a lot of people rooting for her to fail right now, for some reason.
KP: I'm honestly a really big Kelly Clarkson fan. And I love how she stands her ground. I respect the fact that she said, ''I really want to do it my way this time. I just want to see what it'd be like to put out my music the way I want it to be.'' She could have done a record the exact way that the record label wanted her to do it — there's still gonna be people out there that don't like it. Either way, you can't win for losing. We've got more important things going on in the world today than whether or not you like somebody's song on their album. There's a freakin' war going on.... [but world issues] are not being given half as much attention as Britney Spears for not wearing panties. Who cares? If the girl doesn't want to wear panties, leave her alone. I'd rather focus on my troops that are dying for me so that I can actually sit here and have this conversation with you, and homeless kids that are in shelters, than whether or not Britney has panties on. To tell you the truth, I don't even have any panties on right now. I don't care! Let's focus on things that are important, and let people be happy. Let Kelly absorb — she just made a record, let her enjoy that moment of being able to turn on the radio and hear her song. Let her enjoy her work and her passion.

www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20007164_20008533_20047451_3,00.html

lmao! Gotta love Pickles.