Is "chartwatching" dying?

[Devil Marlena Nylund]

Back when I first got the internet in 1998, I eventually found a web forum that consisted of about a dozen people, most of which made their own personal charts. Top 20s and 30s and whatever. At that point, I had been making a chart of my own (while not a "personal" chart in the traditional sense) for three years.
Since then, I had joined the R&R boards where I eventually ran into many more people that made their own charts. Most of these people were inspired either by Billboard or mostly by Casey Kasem from listening to his countdown.
However, it seems nowadays, the "art" of personal chart making seems to be dying out. I know a lot of the people from back in those days that used to make charts have given it up while others are on again, off again and there are a few that are still at it after all these years.

...or maybe we just never run into these people in these parts of the internet. I'm wondering if you guys think that without Casey Kasem and other "chart-info based" and not "gossip based" countdowns (the way AT40 is now), that chart watching could become a thing of the past?

(BTW, I just went to alaskajim.com for the first time in awhile and judging by the number of personal charts there, I could be wrong. Wow!
www.alaskajim.com/charts/currentsingles/personal.asp)

[Deleted]

What is "chartwatching"?

Making your own charts? or following official ones?

I was a huge fan of Casey Kasem, not so much of Ryan Seacrest. Due to Casey Kasem, I have followed the Billboard charts since I can remember but, never got into making personal charts.

[banet2001]

I used to watch the Billboard pop charts very closely for several years. Nowadays I barely pay attention to them. I don't know if many people really listen to top forty chart countdown shows as much as they used to. In the pre-internet era, that was the way you found out which songs were the top songs of the week. Now you can go to Billboard online and see the chart for yourself, without having to listen to a four hour show. With less people listening, less people are probably inspired to make their own. Plus, if there is less than inspiring music out there, less people are interesting in creating their own chart.

[Devil Marlena Nylund]

Yeah, I also meant to make note of how Casey often referred to actual chart achievements and stuff whereas I don't think Ryan actually ever does. So Casey brought the Top 40 songs AND the chart into your radio whereas Ryan simply brings the Top 40 songs and gossip in.

[4 Minutes to be a Legend]

Chart watching has always been an inside music industry thing. The general public is not interested in that.

Basically when it comes down to it...there are only two kinds of people in this world who really do 'chartwatch'...it's Clive Davis and Mariah Carey Lambs.

[Devil Marlena Nylund]

Huh? I've been a chart fan for years and I'm neither. I think you misunderstood what I meant.

By chartwatchers, I mean fans of actual charts. People that like national charts or whatever and eventually make their own because they enjoy ranking songs and seeing records made and stuff. Basically people that are passionate and fascinated by the world of charts, either in watching them and/or making their own.
Personally, my favourite topics in the CHR/Pop forum are topics that relate to specific chart records like longest running #1, Top 10 single, Top 40, etc. Or odd chart movements, or big movers/droppers, that sorta thing. But it seems like interest in that type of discussion has gone way down over the last few years... only unless it involves the favourite diva of someone. But then the people is only interested because a singer they love has a record and not in the actual record itself.

[Adonis the DemiGod!]

I think the general public watches charts more than they ever did in the past. That is the result of instant chart information and bloggers and the internet. However, this caused people to make their own charts less and less. Now people will watch the media base charts change on a daily basis. Plus chart making requires website knowledge that many people refuse to go and get.

[WotUNeed]

Feb 19, 2008 23:47:31 GMT -5 Adonis the DemiGod! said:

Plus chart making requires website knowledge that many people refuse to go and get.

What? I've got news for you... there have been scads of people keeping their own personal song charts since well before they had the Internet.

[Adonis the DemiGod!]

Feb 19, 2008 23:55:13 GMT -5 WotUNeed said:

Feb 19, 2008 23:47:31 GMT -5 Adonis the DemiGod! said:

Plus chart making requires website knowledge that many people refuse to go and get.

What? I've got news for you... there have been scads of people keeping their own personal song charts since well before they had the Internet.

I know but making a chart is different than putting it up on a site for everyone to see.

[John77]

Sometimes "life busyness" can get in the way of chart making, but that doesn't stop the passion for the songs or music... I've been doing personal charts on and off for (gasp!) 20 years... I've found over the years that when a new radio station and/or a certain few songs REALLY captivate me is when I'm most into making my own charts. Last year to me was overall a very boring year for pop music. A lot of good songs, but not a lot of GREAT ones, especially amongst the #1's... and so I kind of didn't have as much of an interest in making PC's in 2007... My interest is being rekindled though now... We now have an almost top-40 leaning HOT AC here in L.A. with KBIG, and there are some new artists that have really caught my attention the past few months - Colbie Caillat & Leona Lewis in particular...

[kingLUKE22]

Luke Sounds, going 11 years strong ...

[Devil Marlena Nylund]

Feb 20, 2008 0:12:26 GMT -5 Adonis the DemiGod! said:

I know but making a chart is different than putting it up on a site for everyone to see.

I have a chart that has been on since 1995 with no breaks or pauses or anything and that's rarely posted for anyone to see. I think a lot of people that made charts before the internet was so available did it for themselves and/or friends and not to get internet attention.

[Pipa]

I wonder what influenced people to make a personal chart before the Internet. I mean, I never would've thought of it before.

[when the pawn...]

Well I gave up my personal chart about a year ago but I'm still obsessive about Billboard & R&R charts.

Also, as I always have (but sorta in place of a personal chart) I always list my ideal grammy nominees.

[K Newman]

I think tis dying. Because reaching #1 doesn't mean as much anymore. I used to be so excited to see who would be #1 way back when, now it means nothing to me. I think being #1 has been cheapened thanks to crap like "Soldier Boy". Kind of like how winning a Grammy doesn't mean as much anymore.

[tortuga]

Feb 19, 2008 23:12:49 GMT -5 4 Minutes to be a Legend said:

Basically when it comes down to it...there are only two kinds of people in this world who really do 'chartwatch'...it's Clive Davis and Mariah Carey Lambs.

[John77]

Feb 20, 2008 9:40:04 GMT -5 Pipa said:

I wonder what influenced people to make a personal chart before the Internet. I mean, I never would've thought of it before.

People have always made lists... I mean that's just the way of the world. I think I started doing my charts more out of frustration with good songs not getting a lot of airplay locally back in the late 80's than anything else... then "Pirate Radio" came along in early 1989 and helped correct things here in L.A. (got KIIS to get back to being a mainstream station) for a good period of time (even after they went away)...

Some of us are just numbers people... so also it was just natural for me to combine my passion for numbers and music into a personally meaningful form.

[atlantaboy]

Feb 19, 2008 23:47:31 GMT -5 Adonis the DemiGod! said:

I think the general public watches charts more than they ever did in the past. That is the result of instant chart information and bloggers and the internet.

Yeah when I talk to people about what's popular, most people seem to pay attention to (1)AT40 or Rick Dees depending on what city they're in, and (2)MTV/TRL...those really seem to be the only charts IMO that the general public (even die-hard music fans) is familiar with

Most people that go to radioandrecords.com or billboard.com (in my experience) seem to be people in the industry, people on internet discussion boards, and people (seem to be very few of them) who just like followin the current music charts

[Arson]

Casey Kasem's countdown motivated me to start chartwatching, and I have tried several times in the past decade or so to quantify what songs I like at that particular time, but have been too busy with work or study to keep it up. I became less interested in the charts between the time Casey Kasem stopped hosting AT40, the AC chart became dead slow and R&R was bought by Billboard. I still save weekly charts on Mediabase but I don't pore over them anymore.

[Libra]

I still follow Billboard and Mediabase weekly, and I still make my combined chart that uses those.

But I stopped making a chart that was based more on my own tastes halfway through 2006. I started 2005 with a Top 20, then halfway through the year I expanded to 25, as I was listening to a broader range of music. I started 2006 at 30, though it wouldn't be too long before a lot of the sources of music that I was listening to dried up. I believe I shrank the chart down again, but I honestly don't remember for sure. But by the time I got through June, I just stopped updating it. I just didn't really feel up to continuing it anymore. Two months later, I started at Saginaw Valley, and ever since I've just listened a lot less to music in general (and even when I am listening to music, only about a third of the time is it Top 40 or any kind of current stuff).

I did try briefly to revive a Top 20 chart last summer, but I couldn't keep it going.

I kinda feel like my giving up on my chart in the first place signified the end of an era, since the chart's first year was my senior year of high school and during the three years after that, I commuted to college. Then two months after that I transferred to a university and have been living on campus there. But then again, I do think it's just by chance that things turned out that way. (I'm inclined to think that if transferring had played the instrumental role, I probably would've wanted my chart to get through the rest of 2006 just to finish out the year, after which that would've been the end.)

I don't think I'll really put a serious effort into starting it up again, simply because what kept it going for those few years was being able to listen to everything that I charted pretty regularly, and I can't see myself as being able to do that to the extent that I did then.

[Love Plastic Love]

I am too lazy to make my own chart, but I wish more people discussed actual charts now. On here or elsewhere. I feel like most music sites are OMG HOT HIT or fan wars now than analyzing the more mathematical trajectory of a song. I would love to discuss patterns and peaks and various charts and methods of making charts with an emphasis on just the data and the factors behind the data and not the fan bias stuff.

[EmersonDrive13Rocks]

Mar 3, 2008 3:45:49 GMT -5 Love Plastic Love said:

I am too lazy to make my own chart, but I wish more people discussed actual charts now. On here or elsewhere. I feel like most music sites are OMG HOT HIT or fan wars now than analyzing the more mathematical trajectory of a song. I would love to discuss patterns and peaks and various charts and methods of making charts with an emphasis on just the data and the factors behind the data and not the fan bias stuff.

Too bad that'll never happen since people always have biases. Also there are very few music fans that are actually interested in chart patterns and methods. Fans definitely like discussing peaks and bias.

I started chart watching in 2005 and found this awesome site in December of 2005. I really like stats so that is why I like chart watching. During 2005 before finding this site I'd print out the top 40 country songs each week and rank them as to how I like them. Once I found this site and saw people posting personal charts I started posting my own. It expanded from 40 to 50 to 75 to 100 (only 3 weeks) and then back to 75.

[WotUNeed]

Mar 3, 2008 5:55:47 GMT -5 EmersonDrive13Rocks said:

Mar 3, 2008 3:45:49 GMT -5 Love Plastic Love said:

I am too lazy to make my own chart, but I wish more people discussed actual charts now. On here or elsewhere. I feel like most music sites are OMG HOT HIT or fan wars now than analyzing the more mathematical trajectory of a song. I would love to discuss patterns and peaks and various charts and methods of making charts with an emphasis on just the data and the factors behind the data and not the fan bias stuff.

Too bad that'll never happen since people always have biases. Also there are very few music fans that are actually interested in chart patterns and methods. Fans definitely like discussing peaks and bias.

That makes no sense. By your logic, any sort of unbiased discussion on any topic is impossible.

Numbers and demographics are fairly straight forward data. One could actually analyze chart data in any number of ways irrespective of one's personal preferences.

[Love Plastic Love]

Mar 4, 2008 8:16:34 GMT -5 WotUNeed said:

Mar 3, 2008 5:55:47 GMT -5 EmersonDrive13Rocks said:

Too bad that'll never happen since people always have biases. Also there are very few music fans that are actually interested in chart patterns and methods. Fans definitely like discussing peaks and bias.

That makes no sense. By your logic, any sort of unbiased discussion on any topic is impossible.

Numbers and demographics are fairly straight forward data. One could actually analyze chart data in any number of ways irrespective of one's personal preferences.

Yep-and forums do exist where people HAVE focused on mature chart discussion. This board used to be one of them before the fans swarmed the place and made it a fanboard.

[John77]

Mar 3, 2008 3:45:49 GMT -5 Love Plastic Love said:

I am too lazy to make my own chart, but I wish more people discussed actual charts now. On here or elsewhere. I feel like most music sites are OMG HOT HIT or fan wars now than analyzing the more mathematical trajectory of a song. I would love to discuss patterns and peaks and various charts and methods of making charts with an emphasis on just the data and the factors behind the data and not the fan bias stuff.

I totally agree with you (though time constraints are probably my biggest reason for not always making a chart)... I think the two events that first fascinated me about chart watching and got me into it in the early 80's were the incredibly long run of Soft Cell's "Tainted Love" on the Hot 100 chart, and the crazy number of weeks that Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of The Moon" spent on the Top 200 album chart. Records like that truly fascinated me and still do today. I still definitely have the "bug" for it. It's neat to see a song have a long trek (or two) to reach the #1 spot like Gavin DeGraw's "I Don't Want To Be," but it's also just as fascinating to see a song by an established artist get 2,000 spins with their new single the first week out of the box and then 5 weeks later or so be peaking in the mid-teens...

[John77]

Feb 19, 2008 23:38:11 GMT -5 Devil Marlena Nylund said:

Huh? I've been a chart fan for years and I'm neither. I think you misunderstood what I meant.

By chartwatchers, I mean fans of actual charts. People that like national charts or whatever and eventually make their own because they enjoy ranking songs and seeing records made and stuff. Basically people that are passionate and fascinated by the world of charts, either in watching them and/or making their own.
Personally, my favourite topics in the CHR/Pop forum are topics that relate to specific chart records like longest running #1, Top 10 single, Top 40, etc. Or odd chart movements, or big movers/droppers, that sorta thing. But it seems like interest in that type of discussion has gone way down over the last few years... only unless it involves the favourite diva of someone. But then the people is only interested because a singer they love has a record and not in the actual record itself.

Some of us here still like this stuff... the odd chart movements always fascinated me - like songs dropping from #1 to out of the top 10... but you and LPL are right - it seems that we are in an "artist/fan based era" rather than a "hit based era." Over here it seems to be like with many current radio stations, people seem to be more interested in the singer, and less in the song and consequently, much less in the story behind the hit or how it develops...