Is your AC station "soft rock"?

[atlantaboy]

Hey just wonderin if anyone else has an "AC" station in their market that plays songs like "Someday" by Nickelback, "Semi-Charmed Life" by Third Eye Blind, "It's Not Over" by Daughtry, and "Here I Go Again" by Whitesnake followed by the slogan "Soft Rock"...just seems really bizarre to me

WSB/Atlanta isn't monitored by Mediabase or BDS...not sure if it's because it doesn't fit the "soft rock" mold, or if there are tons of other AC stations out there like that

[cartman2002]

we have both a Hot AC and Soft AC station in our area.

[JCMF3]

May 5, 2008 17:17:50 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

WSB/Atlanta isn't monitored by Mediabase or BDS...not sure if it's because it doesn't fit the "soft rock" mold, or if there are tons of other AC stations out there like that

www.mmr247.com/mmrweb/AllAccess/Stations.asp?c_let=WSB-FM

It certainly is being monitored. And songs like "It's Not Over" did make the AC chart and is played on other AC stations. Some other songs, I agree, are odd for an AC audience.

[EvanJ]

Parts of "Semi-Charmed Life" could be too rap, "It's Not Over" made the AC chart, AC stations have changed since "Someday" was released and it isn't any worse for AC than other Nickelback songs AC played. I don't know "Here I Go Again."
On the topic of songs that maybe AC shouldn't play, here's an example (but it isn't about Soft Rock). New York City's WWFS played "Crazy In Love" (hopefully with Jay-Z edited out but I don't know).
WSB-FM is on the a1m panel but not the smaller a1r panel on Mediabase.

[atlantaboy]

May 7, 2008 11:10:01 GMT -5 EvanJ said:

WSB-FM is on the a1m panel but not the smaller a1r panel on Mediabase.

Yeah thanks...that explains why I can never find it I guess (had no clue it was bein monitored until a poster provided the link)

I have no prob. with mainstream AC stations playin Nickelback songs like "Someday" and "How You Remind Me" (WSB plays both), or "Push" by Matchbox 20, but you'd think they'd change the slogan of their station...seems really far-fetched to call "Someday" or "How You Remind Me" soft-rock IMO

In terms of the Fresh AC station in NYC, I'm thinkin they're tryin to take advantage of WPLJ's lower ratings (esp. closer to the city itself), and serve as a slightly more pop/rhythmic and upbeat alternative to PLJ, even though they keep their songs in such low rotation that they have to be considered mainstream AC I guess rather than Hot AC

[Pipa]

How on earth does a station like WSB manage to have only a 3-letter call letter? I've always wondered.

[atlantaboy]

May 7, 2008 19:22:03 GMT -5 Pipa said:

How on earth does a station like WSB manage to have only a 3-letter call letter? I've always wondered.

Completely not sure but I think the station is really old, datin back to when radio and TV stations only had 3-letter call letters...Memphis has a Hot AC with 3-letter call letters too...also still think there are a lot of AM talk/sports/news stations with 3-letter call letters (assumin they're prob. the oldest radio stations in the country)

[John77]

May 8, 2008 16:26:50 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

May 7, 2008 19:22:03 GMT -5 Pipa said:

How on earth does a station like WSB manage to have only a 3-letter call letter? I've always wondered.

Completely not sure but I think the station is really old, datin back to when radio and TV stations only had 3-letter call letters...Memphis has a Hot AC with 3-letter call letters too...also still think there are a lot of AM talk/sports/news stations with 3-letter call letters (assumin they're prob. the oldest radio stations in the country)

I'm not 100% positive either, but I think this is correct... lots of the heritage stations are only 3 letters... KGB (101 FM) in San Diego for example... KNX 1070 (am) in L.A.

[EvanJ]

May 7, 2008 17:11:25 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

In terms of the Fresh AC station in NYC, I'm thinkin they're tryin to take advantage of WPLJ's lower ratings (esp. closer to the city itself), and serve as a slightly more pop/rhythmic and upbeat alternative to PLJ, even though they keep their songs in such low rotation that they have to be considered mainstream AC I guess rather than Hot AC

I also heard WWFS playing "Love Don't Cost A Thing" by Jennifer Lopez and "Family Affair" by Mary J. Blige.

Some other stations with three call letters are KQV-AM with a low rating in Pittsburgh (I don't know if it does better anywhere else), KYW-AM Philadelphia, WBT-AM and WBT-FM Charlotte-Gastonia-Rock Hill, WSM-AM and WSM-FM Nashville, and WOR New York City.

Edit: Also WWL-AM and WWL-FM New Orleans.

[tico]

There are other three-letter calls out there, such as KSL Salt Lake City, KXL Portland and WGN Chicago.

It doesn't surprise me that WSB-FM is playing those songs. When I lived in the Atlanta area earlier this decade, they were straddling the fence between AC and hot AC. They were one of the few ACs that played "Everything You Want" and "Waterfalls". But it also doesn't surprise me in the sense that AC today isn't the same as it was 20 years ago. Heck, ten years ago, AC wouldn't have played "Here I Go Again". This could part of a permanent shift as the 30- and 40-somethings who listened to AC in the 80s are now in their 50s and 60s and thus, are aging out of the format. When that happens, the songs and artists that appealed to them are slowly being phased out as well.

[atlantaboy]

May 9, 2008 22:41:56 GMT -5 @tico said:

But it also doesn't surprise me in the sense that AC today isn't the same as it was 20 years ago. Heck, ten years ago, AC wouldn't have played "Here I Go Again". This could part of a permanent shift as the 30- and 40-somethings who listened to AC in the 80s are now in their 50s and 60s and thus, are aging out of the format. When that happens, the songs and artists that appealed to them are slowly being phased out as well.

Def. agree that ACs of today are appealin to a new generation of listeners...what's different though IMO (although WSB is prob. an extreme example) is the "soft rock" factor - i. e. AC stations today playin Here I Go Again from the 80s would be like AC stations in the 90s playin hard-rock 70s hits by Foreigner or Bad Company...and an AC station today playin It's Not Over would be like an AC station in the 90s playin Ironic, Push, or Mr. Jones - for some reason, in a bunch of major markets (including Atlanta), the demand for "easy, relaxing music" isn't out there at this point, or with this generation of AC listeners

[atlantaboy]

May 9, 2008 8:08:02 GMT -5 EvanJ said:

May 7, 2008 17:11:25 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

In terms of the Fresh AC station in NYC, I'm thinkin they're tryin to take advantage of WPLJ's lower ratings (esp. closer to the city itself), and serve as a slightly more pop/rhythmic and upbeat alternative to PLJ, even though they keep their songs in such low rotation that they have to be considered mainstream AC I guess rather than Hot AC

I also heard WWFS playing "Love Don't Cost A Thing" by Jennifer Lopez and "Family Affair" by Mary J. Blige.

Yeah WWFS is def. an "original" station...just looked them up, and they're playin Don't Stop The Music, Shadow Of The Day, and even "Underneath" by Alanis Morissette

I think it's just classified as "AC" b/c most of its currents are in pretty low rotation - seems like it's def. competing with WPLJ by both takin some of its core songs and adding in more rhythmic recurrents so it sounds more "exciting" than PLJ...almost like a "compromise" between PLJ and Z100

[tico]

I wonder if WWFS is more like a rhythmic AC than mainstream AC.

In my area, the AC station Mix 98.7 (WJKK) is playing Lynyrd Skynyrd and Boston, as well as "Life Is A Highway" by Tom Cochrane, so I won't be surprised if more ACs start mixing in more classic rock music AC doesn't normally play. Also, and good amount of songs on Mix can also be heard on Jack FM, so I would bet Jack is having an influence on Mix's playlist.

Interesting enough, the "oldies" station here, WQJQ, is playing most of the softer music. No one else is playing "Hello It's Me" by Todd Rundgren, "I Go Crazy" by Paul Davis or any song from Carly Simon.

[atlantaboy]

May 10, 2008 13:23:56 GMT -5 @tico said:

I wonder if WWFS is more like a rhythmic AC than mainstream AC.

Yeah it almost seems like a cross between Hot AC and Rhythmic AC, but all in really low rotation...

[Arson]

I think AC stations are playing more and more Hot AC type music both in their currents as can be evidence by the chart (Daughtry, Lifehouse,) as well as in their golds. I hear ballads a lot less often.

[atlantaboy]

Yeah today on WSB I heard "Higher" by Creed followed by the slogan "Atlanta's soft rock station"...just seems really bizarre to me IMO for them to keep that slogan

I know they're prob. playin it to fill a "gap" of pop/rock "gold" hits that don't really fit the Triple A station, but I'm thinkin they might wanna think of a new slogan to fit their station other than "soft rock," which Higher by Creed def. isn't lol

[Chase]

May 20, 2008 16:50:53 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

Yeah today on WSB I heard "Higher" by Creed followed by the slogan "Atlanta's soft rock station"...just seems really bizarre to me IMO for them to keep that slogan

I know they're prob. playin it to fill a "gap" of pop/rock "gold" hits that don't really fit the Triple A station, but I'm thinkin they might wanna think of a new slogan to fit their station other than "soft rock," which Higher by Creed def. isn't lol

Even more amusing to me is when a station bills itself as "Lite Rock" or "Soft Rock" and then plays Backstreet Boys, or Jennifer Lopez, or Donna Summer...not exactly my definition of "rock" music.

[smack]

I hear in milwaukee, the new ac station, milwaukee's only soft rock station (and they brag #1 AC station too...real hard when only 1 station to be #1)....I hear sister sledge, bon jovi, prince's 1999 etc

[shocker]

The definition of "soft rock" has changed and evolved over the years. I believe the phrase "soft rock" became well-known in the early 1970s with artists like Bread, James Taylor, America, and the Carpenters. Later in the '70s artists like Barry Manilow became a staple for soft rock. Back then, it was more or less easy listening with a beat.

So as we progress through time, the AC format has to keep evolving. It can't be all Elton John and Celine Dion - that would be very boring, and wouldn't attract the newer 30-somethings to its listener base. Therefore, to grab the younger end of the AC spectrum, the format must try out titles that were once forbidden to the format.

So even though a lot of songs by Nickelback and Vertical Horizon aren't considered "soft rock" to the older audience, they would fit that definition according to a lot of the younger crowd - the 30-somethings that are now tuning into AC for the 1st time.

As golden eagle pointed out, AC has to phase out certain songs as time progresses. Even the newer AC-only artists like Josh Groban can't be played continuously, otherwise you'll only get a small portion of the audience. Variety is the key!

[shocker]

May 9, 2008 1:03:21 GMT -5 John77 said:

I'm not 100% positive either, but I think this is correct... lots of the heritage stations are only 3 letters... KGB (101 FM) in San Diego for example... KNX 1070 (am) in L.A.

They are known as "grandfathered" stations, which were in existence before the FCC took hold. Many radio stations that were developed in the 1920s and 1930s had 3 letters.

Another interesting thing is some of these early stations that had 4 letters starting with a "K" were found east of the Misssissippi River. KDKA in Pennsylvania was America's 1st commercial radio station. When the FCC laws went into effect, all newer stations had to have 4 letters; and all stations east of the Mississippi River were required to start with "W". Everything east of the Mississippi had to begin with "K".

[giovannina]

May 10, 2008 11:36:29 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

May 9, 2008 22:41:56 GMT -5 @tico said:

...the demand for "easy, relaxing music" isn't out there at this point, or with this generation of AC listeners

Especially during the daytime, when people may be listening at work or while driving. *g*

Let's not forget that the generation that introduced rock 'n' roll is now over 60, and for the most part they were not all that much into "easy, relaxing music" when they were teenagers, so why should they be now?

[atlantaboy]

Jun 30, 2008 4:39:31 GMT -5 shocker said:

The definition of "soft rock" has changed and evolved over the years. I believe the phrase "soft rock" became well-known in the early 1970s with artists like Bread, James Taylor, America, and the Carpenters. Later in the '70s artists like Barry Manilow became a staple for soft rock. Back then, it was more or less easy listening with a beat.

So as we progress through time, the AC format has to keep evolving. It can't be all Elton John and Celine Dion - that would be very boring, and wouldn't attract the newer 30-somethings to its listener base. Therefore, to grab the younger end of the AC spectrum, the format must try out titles that were once forbidden to the format.

So even though a lot of songs by Nickelback and Vertical Horizon aren't considered "soft rock" to the older audience, they would fit that definition according to a lot of the younger crowd - the 30-somethings that are now tuning into AC for the 1st time.

As golden eagle pointed out, AC has to phase out certain songs as time progresses. Even the newer AC-only artists like Josh Groban can't be played continuously, otherwise you'll only get a small portion of the audience. Variety is the key!

Def. agree, but there are still a lot of markets with AC stations that advertise themselves as "lite-rock" (i. e. a station with relaxing music for the workplace etc.), and Higher by Creed or Someday by Nickelback aren't gonna do the job ...really doubt that anyone of any age considers those songs "soft rock" or "lite rock" when they hear them - I think it's more that they're familiar, and in markets with no Hot AC, the mainstream AC is the only format that can keep those songs "alive"

IMO there's still plenty of "soft" or "lite" music to choose from in the 2000s...Take A Bow by Rihanna, Home by Daughtry, Bubbly by Colbie, etc., so IMO it's not like ACs would be forced to continue to play nothing but recurrent/gold Celine Dion and Elton John if they wanted to stay "lite rock"

It just seems like in a lot of markets, mainstream ACs are choosing to play harder material (that's familiar, but def. not lite-rock), almost like the "lite-rock" thing has run its course

Also thinkin it might have somethin to do with the declining ratings of Hot AC over the past 5-7 years, and many markets losing their HAC station altogether, leaving the mainstream AC station to cover recurrent material that would have been covered by HAC...still not sure though

[johnm1120]

Our AC station tries too hard to be Disco. They play a Disco song in every music set and then advertise their "Friday Lite Fever" during just about every break. It gets kinda repetitive after awhile.

[tico]

Jul 18, 2008 12:12:07 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

Jun 30, 2008 4:39:31 GMT -5 shocker said:

IMO there's still plenty of "soft" or "lite" music to choose from in the 2000s...Take A Bow by Rihanna, Home by Daughtry, Bubbly by Colbie, etc., so IMO it's not like ACs would be forced to continue to play nothing but recurrent/gold Celine Dion and Elton John if they wanted to stay "lite rock"

But AC is all about familiarity. Sure, there is a lot of music from this decade to pull from for AC to play, but the format's core is still the 25-54 year-old female, particularly the upper part of that demo and hearing the artists and songs they've grown familiar with over at least the past couple of decades is important. Not saying that they wouldn't like Michael Buble or Chris Rice, but they haven't made anything really memorable compared to Elton John and Celine Dion. Plus, unlike other formats like CHR or urban, AC has never been about breaking new hits unless it's from artists who are pretty much relegated to the format.

Also thinkin it might have somethin to do with the declining ratings of Hot AC over the past 5-7 years, and many markets losing their HAC station altogether, leaving the mainstream AC station to cover recurrent material that would have been covered by HAC...still not sure though

I can't really agree with that as far as a blanket statement. I might be more incline to think that AC is adding such material because of hot AC and maybe even moreso because of variety hits. In my market, since Jack FM came on the air, the AC station here, Mix 98.7, has added songs like "Sweet Home Alabama", "More Than A Feeling" and "Kryptonite". I never thought I'd hear those songs on Mix. Even though Mix has never been a dominant station in the market, Jack has held Mix in check. Mix' parent company has bought Jack, so it'll be interesting what music shifts, if any, will happen as a result once the takeover is official.

[shocker]

Jul 24, 2008 23:37:23 GMT -5 @tico said:

Jul 18, 2008 12:12:07 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

In my market, since Jack FM came on the air, the AC station here, Mix 98.7, has added songs like "Sweet Home Alabama", "More Than A Feeling" and "Kryptonite". I never thought I'd hear those songs on Mix. Even though Mix has never been a dominant station in the market, Jack has held Mix in check. Mix' parent company has bought Jack, so it'll be interesting what music shifts, if any, will happen as a result once the takeover is official.

AC isn't true to its name (adult contemporary) if stations add songs that are decades old. "More Than a Feeling and "Sweet Home Alabama" were '70s hits. Those "familiar" songs belong on oldies, classic rock, or "whatever we want" stations.

AC still spins too many tired-out tunes from the '70s and '80s. A person can only hear so much Elton, Chicago, and Hall & Oates. There are plenty of softer songs from the '90s and now that could win over the younger AC listeners - and still not be considered Hot AC.

[atlantaboy]

Jul 24, 2008 23:37:23 GMT -5 @tico said:

Jul 18, 2008 12:12:07 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

But AC is all about familiarity. Sure, there is a lot of music from this decade to pull from for AC to play, but the format's core is still the 25-54 year-old female, particularly the upper part of that demo and hearing the artists and songs they've grown familiar with over at least the past couple of decades is important. Not saying that they wouldn't like Michael Buble or Chris Rice, but they haven't made anything really memorable compared to Elton John and Celine Dion.

Bubbly, Home, and Take A Bow though have all been huge CHR hits which def. "fit" the "lite-rock" AC format (if AC stations wanted to stick to lite-rock like they did in the 90s) - and there's still plenty of "lite" music to "pull" from that's been popular over the past couple decades (Savage Garden, John Mayer, Norah Jones, Rob Thomas, etc.)...not sure what u mean about havin to play Michael Buble and Chris Rice

Seems like if an AC station chooses to play Someday by Nickelback or Higher by Creed, they're workin off a completely different definition of AC than 90s "lite-rock" stations did (i. e. familiar songs, but not necessarily songs to relax you through the workday etc.)

Just can't see the difference between a modern-day AC playin Higher and Someday and a 90s AC playin Pour Some Sugar On Me or Livin' On A Prayer (which never would've been done)

Just thinkin that this familiarity-only type AC programming seems like somethin that wasn't done in the 80s or 90s

[tico]

Jul 25, 2008 18:43:26 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

Jul 24, 2008 23:37:23 GMT -5 @tico said:

Jul 18, 2008 12:12:07 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

Bubbly, Home, and Take A Bow though have all been huge CHR hits which def. "fit" the "lite-rock" AC format (if AC stations wanted to stick to lite-rock like they did in the 90s) - and there's still plenty of "lite" music to "pull" from that's been popular over the past couple decades (Savage Garden, John Mayer, Norah Jones, Rob Thomas, etc.)...not sure what u mean about havin to play Michael Buble and Chris Rice

The point was not about AC listeners liking Michael Buble or Chris Rice, but that familiarity of songs and artists is what drives the format. If you were to ask 100 people to list five core mainstream artists at AC, Michael Buble probably wouldn't make the list. It's not whether his music good or not, but who is he, compared to the Elton Johns and Celine Dions of the world?

Just thinkin that this familiarity-only type AC programming seems like somethin that wasn't done in the 80s or 90s

Yes, it has. It's just that the type of songs played have changed.

[atlantaboy]

Jul 25, 2008 22:57:29 GMT -5 @tico said:

Yes, it has. It's just that the type of songs played have changed.

Yeah that's what I mean...I guess I'm tryin to figure out why the type of songs played has changed, since AC's today could be playin familiar lite-rock by John Mayer, Colbie Caillat, Savage Garden, etc. and leavin out Nickelback and Creed - in the 80s and 90s ACs got their high ratings by playin exclusively lite-rock, but seems to be less and less true today

You might have a point IMO about them adding in some more rock-sounding songs to either compete against the Jack format, or prevent the Jack format from entering their market

[tico]

I grew up in the 80s and 90s, so I can shed some light on what AC was playing. AC really didn't play anything heavy. No way AC would've played Bon Jovi, not even "Living On A Prayer" or "I'll Be There For You". At that time, Elton John, Rod Stewart, James Taylor and Carly Simon were still standard fare on AC as far as gold rotations are concerned. In other words, AC stayed pretty much to its softer sound. 60s music in the rotation was also the norm. What happened between now and then? As I mentioned before, the older end of AC's demographic is aging out of the format (and older formats don't curry favor with advertisers, for whatever reason) and they had to do something to make themselves relevant. You may also have to include if AC was losing audiences to hot AC and and now variety hits and added harder-edged songs to stop any bleeding.

[atlantaboy]

Jul 27, 2008 16:51:50 GMT -5 @tico said:

You may also have to include if AC was losing audiences to hot AC and and now variety hits and added harder-edged songs to stop any bleeding.

Yeah I def. think that must be a big part of it cause it doesn't make sense IMO that the AC generation of the 80s and 90s liked exclusively soft/lite hits (even though they grew up with Bad Company, Lynyrd Skynard, etc.), while new AC generation likes familiar hits from any genre