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Post by Glenneth Paltrow on Dec 8, 2009 1:32:01 GMT -5
Now, I'm anxious to see it. And whoever fucked up the duet should be flogged!
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hellothere
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Post by hellothere on Dec 8, 2009 2:18:03 GMT -5
See what happens when you let people hear and see a talented performer sing a good song? And, he didn't even have to do anything "shocking" or "controversial". And, this was never released as a single but LO and CBTM were because...? Fail, RCA, epic effing fail.
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Post by Glenneth Paltrow on Dec 8, 2009 2:37:57 GMT -5
True, oh so true, hellothere.
I hope RCA rethinks that and either releases Lie in the new year or make it part of the next album and release it then.
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hellothere
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Post by hellothere on Dec 13, 2009 4:38:33 GMT -5
Cook did very well on Billboard's year-end charts. Still baffled as to why he was kicked to the curb by RCA and 19.
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Post by Glenneth Paltrow on Dec 13, 2009 5:23:18 GMT -5
Well, RCA and !9 are the brain trust behind many fail-y things so I'm not really surprised at their decision. I'm just happy that he's getting a second album.
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hellothere
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Post by hellothere on Dec 13, 2009 5:34:38 GMT -5
Would be nice if they would actually promote it, but...
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soundUPsceneDOWN
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Post by soundUPsceneDOWN on Dec 13, 2009 22:47:14 GMT -5
Cook did very well on Billboard's year-end charts. Still baffled as to why he was kicked to the curb by RCA and 19. I don't think he was kicked to the curb, I think his album just ran its cycle. RCA determined that to put out another single probably wouldn't net him many more album/single sales and so they decided to forgo the expense and just move on. Since he's in between albums he's not doing much promotion (although he still is doing some - the Carrie holiday special was a 19-sponsored event, and wasn't he on some other talk show pretty recently?). There's really no need for him to be promoting right now, and I think it would be detrimental to busy him up while he's attempting to work on his second album. Artists need that break time to create. All-in-all, 19 and RCA treated Cook very well. I don't think he would complain.
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Rumors
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Post by Rumors on Dec 15, 2009 5:52:24 GMT -5
I agree with Soundscene's assessment. This next album is really going to be HUGE for David. Huge in the sense that he really needs to stamp it with HIS music and it needs to do well (I'm not necessarily talking multi-platinum because I don't think that's really in David's cards - it isn't for most HotAC artists except maybe John Mayer).
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grey
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Post by grey on Dec 15, 2009 12:12:40 GMT -5
Cook did very well on Billboard's year-end charts. Still baffled as to why he was kicked to the curb by RCA and 19. Oh wow, I don't think he's been kicked to the curb at all. I see the Claude Kelly collaboration as a good sign that they'll continue to support him and try to get him more CHR play. And like someone mentioned, him appearing on Carrie's special despite not having anything new to promote now is another good sign to me that they want to keep him on everyone's radar.
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hellothere
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Post by hellothere on Dec 15, 2009 17:47:49 GMT -5
Cook did very well on Billboard's year-end charts. Still baffled as to why he was kicked to the curb by RCA and 19. Oh wow, I don't think he's been kicked to the curb at all. I see the Claude Kelly collaboration as a good sign that they'll continue to support him and try to get him more CHR play. And like someone mentioned, him appearing on Carrie's special despite not having anything new to promote now is another good sign to me that they want to keep him on everyone's radar. Well, I respectfully disagree. His appearance on Carrie's special was at her request and had little to do with management. And, quite frankly, Claude Kelly is one of their "stable" writers; it doesn't mean anything regarding a push to CHR. Considering how badly he flopped there and how little of a push he was given with his debut in that direction (they chose to sponge from the AI fans instead), I highly doubt that he will be given a substantial CHR push. I really can't see them pulling out two singles in a month's time for him like they have for their latest signee, unfortunately, despite the fact that Cook is their second biggest seller for the year, behind only KOL, and beyond dwarfs their newest offering.
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tinawina
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Post by tinawina on Dec 15, 2009 21:28:48 GMT -5
Well, I respectfully disagree. His appearance on Carrie's special was at her request and had little to do with management. And, quite frankly, Claude Kelly is one of their "stable" writers; it doesn't mean anything regarding a push to CHR. Considering how badly he flopped there and how little of a push he was given with his debut in that direction (they chose to sponge from the AI fans instead), I highly doubt that he will be given a substantial CHR push. I really can't see them pulling out two singles in a month's time for him like they have for their latest signee, unfortunately, despite the fact that Cook is their second biggest seller for the year, behind only KOL, and beyond dwarfs their newest offering. Carrie may have requested his presence, but the fact he did tons of radio promo for the event was 19's call. Also, he was just on Regis and Kelly for no real reason, and he's going to appear on Extreme Home Makeover in January. Claude Kelly may be one of the 19 go-to guys (somewhat debateable), but he still ain't cheap. That's like calling Rob Cavallo a member of the stable because he worked worth more than one idol. That dude ain't cheap either, relationship with 19 or no. But you know, Cook is DOOMED. His label HATES him. 19 has DESERTED him. His life is OVER. All that good stuff. I keed, I keed. But at least you're strong in your convictions.
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hellothere
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Post by hellothere on Dec 15, 2009 23:49:27 GMT -5
Well, I respectfully disagree. His appearance on Carrie's special was at her request and had little to do with management. And, quite frankly, Claude Kelly is one of their "stable" writers; it doesn't mean anything regarding a push to CHR. Considering how badly he flopped there and how little of a push he was given with his debut in that direction (they chose to sponge from the AI fans instead), I highly doubt that he will be given a substantial CHR push. I really can't see them pulling out two singles in a month's time for him like they have for their latest signee, unfortunately, despite the fact that Cook is their second biggest seller for the year, behind only KOL, and beyond dwarfs their newest offering. Carrie may have requested his presence, but the fact he did tons of radio promo for the event was 19's call. Also, he was just on Regis and Kelly for no real reason, and he's going to appear on Extreme Home Makeover in January. Claude Kelly may be one of the 19 go-to guys (somewhat debateable), but he still ain't cheap. That's like calling Rob Cavallo a member of the stable because he worked worth more than one idol. That dude ain't cheap either, relationship with 19 or no. But you know, Cook is DOOMED. His label HATES him. 19 has DESERTED him. His life is OVER. All that good stuff. I keed, I keed. But at least you're strong in your convictions. Doomed, no; underappreciated, yes. Hated, no, ignored to the point of being made into a CHR flop, yes. Deserted, well, yeah. Life over, no; unless you know something I don't, he's still breathing. ;) Maybe you are privy to information that I am unaware of, which would explain why you are strong in your convictions, when common sense points in the opposite direction. Perhaps you know of "pre-arranged" Z100 and KIIS airplay, along with OHP spins and an assload of promotional opportunities to the point of near or definite overexposure. If so, my bad.
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tinawina
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Post by tinawina on Dec 16, 2009 12:03:52 GMT -5
Doomed, no; underappreciated, yes. Hated, no, ignored to the point of being made into a CHR flop, yes. Deserted, well, yeah. Life over, no; unless you know something I don't, he's still breathing. ;) Maybe you are privy to information that I am unaware of, which would explain why you are strong in your convictions, when common sense points in the opposite direction. Perhaps you know of "pre-arranged" Z100 and KIIS airplay, along with OHP spins and an assload of promotional opportunities to the point of near or definite overexposure. If so, my bad. Well, I'll respond to this but then that's it, because a protracted convo would be pretty pointless IMO. We both know we will not be changing each other's minds here. ;) That said, I don't think your view represents common sense. I think it is an extreme reading of the situation. I am not saying everything with Cook is roses and puppies. I think RCA made some questionable single choices. Also, I don't think they pushed Barbasol at all. But to imply there was no effort to break him on pop... so, they didn't push Light On? Really? And 19 has abandoned him? All the TV promo he got for CBTM... which is not normal.. that is indicative of an act they are abandoning? A bunch of winter appearances when he has nothing to promote? And the choice to not release another single from an album that had fallen out of the BB200 is evidence of label disinterest? Because it sounds like a common business practice to me. It is quite possible he didn't break big on pop because... he didn't break big on pop. LOL. Maybe they thought those single choices would work, and they didn't. Because labels get it wrong all the time, you know. Or, RCA spent a lot of money testing songs to pick a second single, so I'm reasoning they actually used the data. Maybe none of the 3 tested well on pop. Maybe CBTM tested the best on HAC, and they released it. Or not. Either way, I'm not seeing the huge evidence of abandonment, or a lack of promotion, simply because he didn't get the exact same push as Adam Lambert. Well then a whole lot of acts are in trouble then, because their labels are not rolling them out exactly the way Lambert is being handled. If you remember correctly, Cook actually got one of the biggest Idol debut rollouts to date his year. And it resulted in a nice tidy profit for all involved. How about we wait and observe what actually happens with his second album before we see if the parties involved walk away from the money? I'm betting they want some more. And he certainly has the potential to make them some more. I don't know, but as long as I was around the industry, that was always the bottom line. I don't really see that changing for Cook.
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kellyb
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Post by kellyb on Dec 16, 2009 15:55:06 GMT -5
Wait...Top 20 and platinum is floppage? Good to know I guess.
Poor Cook.
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lyrichord
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Post by lyrichord on Dec 16, 2009 18:13:23 GMT -5
The label pushed Cook pretty hard when his album was released last year. He was on SNL before his first album even dropped which is a rarity if not unprecedented, and I don't doubt that they pushed "Light On" to radio as far as it would go. They were probably disappointed that he didn't explode on CHR like Daughtry and pulled back promo after the first single. He probably needs catchier material to have more success, hence, recruitment of Claude Kelly. I also have no doubt that if Lambert's current single gets stuck outside the top 10 on pop, his promo will be scaled way down. That is how RCA has always operated with the Idols, just look at Clay Aiken, Bo Bice, and Katharine McPhee's chart runs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2009 19:59:41 GMT -5
I've been rather neutral about David Cook -- I do basically like him, but don't care or follow him too much.
That said, I was really quite impressed with his performance on Carrie Underwood's special. That performance made me sit up and take notice.
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soundUPsceneDOWN
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Post by soundUPsceneDOWN on Dec 16, 2009 20:01:19 GMT -5
Wait...Top 20 and platinum is floppage? Good to know I guess. Poor Cook. I think maybe they were referring to CBTM. But one CHR flop doesn't make an artist a CHR flop in general. Most artists get their share of CHR flops eventually. That said, Cook's album is very Hot AC, and not very CHR. Light On's #20 peak reflected that. RCA pushed hard for the first non-Idol-related single, but couldn't push it higher than 20 because of the nature of the CHR chart and Light On's Hot AC-ness. You can tell that RCA didn't push CBTM much at all on CHR. So whether Cook will ever have a big hit on CHR will depend on whether he decides to change his sound much from the first album, and whether CHR changes towards a more Hot AC sound than it is now. I'm not sure Cook, even with the help of Claude Kelly, will change so drastically that he'll suddenly produce music that fits right in with the big CHR hits. So Cook may never be a CHR artist. But that may not matter if he keeps selling based off of Hot AC airplay, or gets a huge AC hit like he did with TOML. Then again, I doubt Cook himself would ever put out another song like TOML. Nor do I think his fans would want him to. TOML may have sold him a lot of albums and been the #whatever AC hit of the decade or year or whatever it is, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a cheesefest of a coronation song. lol. I would start worrying for Cook if he put something like that out himself... on purpose.
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soundUPsceneDOWN
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Post by soundUPsceneDOWN on Dec 16, 2009 20:05:08 GMT -5
The label pushed Cook pretty hard when his album was released last year. He was on SNL before his first album even dropped which is a rarity if not unprecedented, and I don't doubt that they pushed "Light On" to radio as far as it would go. They were probably disappointed that he didn't explode on CHR like Daughtry and pulled back promo after the first single. He probably needs catchier material to have more success, hence, recruitment of Claude Kelly. I also have no doubt that if Lambert's current single gets stuck outside the top 10 on pop, his promo will be scaled way down. That is how RCA has always operated with the Idols, just look at Clay Aiken, Bo Bice, and Katharine McPhee's chart runs. I would say top 15 is the new top 10, since top 15 now is the same number of spins and AI that the top 10 had about 5-10 years ago. So Cook and Lambert probably just need to reach top 15 to be considered a real CHR success, and keep the label headed in that direction.
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voices
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Post by voices on Dec 16, 2009 20:41:48 GMT -5
I would say top 15 is the new top 10, since top 15 now is the same number of spins and AI that the top 10 had about 5-10 years ago. So Cook and Lambert probably just need to reach top 15 to be considered a real CHR success, and keep the label headed in that direction. Just curious...are the changes in the amount of spins (and AI) because there are more pop stations now or b/c the stations play the top 10 songs more often? Personally, I don't think Cook has to do super well on CHR, because it is not the end-all be-all of music. However, he needs to be played on more than one format. He already has HAC covered and hopefully Alt-rock or Rock will play him. If he can't get rock to play him, THEN he really needs to do well on CHR. This makes me shudder b/c I hate 99% of what's on CHR. (I'm picturing Cook singing a Ryan Tedder song....repeating the same words over and over and over and over......)
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soundUPsceneDOWN
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Post by soundUPsceneDOWN on Dec 16, 2009 21:46:16 GMT -5
I would say top 15 is the new top 10, since top 15 now is the same number of spins and AI that the top 10 had about 5-10 years ago. So Cook and Lambert probably just need to reach top 15 to be considered a real CHR success, and keep the label headed in that direction. Just curious...are the changes in the amount of spins (and AI) because there are more pop stations now or b/c the stations play the top 10 songs more often? Because they play the top 10 to top 20 more often. The panel isn't that much larger (if it is larger... I would have to check). I remember discussing this all awhile back in another thread. Back in 2001, about 8000 spins would get you a #1. Now it takes 10,000-11,000, in general. Of course, it will vary depending on time of year, etc., but in general the top 10 to top 20 songs are just played with more frequency now than 10 years ago.
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hellothere
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Post by hellothere on Dec 17, 2009 10:35:16 GMT -5
Real simple and then I am done on this topic: Cook did not do well on CHR and he was never pushed there nearly as hard as Lambert is being pushed now (it is up for debate as to how much that was due to poor single choices or 19/RCA simply seeing him as a temporary Idol cash cow with a loyal fan base but not wanting to invest in his future). With a lack of CHR success with his debut effort, there is no reason for them to push him there with the sophomore album. And, therein lies the problem. HAC is not a large enough format for him to generate the sales necessary to get to album #3. So.....
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grey
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Post by grey on Dec 17, 2009 11:33:00 GMT -5
Carrie may have requested his presence, but the fact he did tons of radio promo for the event was 19's call. Also, he was just on Regis and Kelly for no real reason, and he's going to appear on Extreme Home Makeover in January. Claude Kelly may be one of the 19 go-to guys (somewhat debateable), but he still ain't cheap. That's like calling Rob Cavallo a member of the stable because he worked worth more than one idol. That dude ain't cheap either, relationship with 19 or no. But you know, Cook is DOOMED. His label HATES him. 19 has DESERTED him. His life is OVER. All that good stuff. I keed, I keed. But at least you're strong in your convictions. Doomed, no; underappreciated, yes. Hated, no, ignored to the point of being made into a CHR flop, yes. Deserted, well, yeah. Life over, no; unless you know something I don't, he's still breathing. ;) Maybe you are privy to information that I am unaware of, which would explain why you are strong in your convictions, when common sense points in the opposite direction. Perhaps you know of "pre-arranged" Z100 and KIIS airplay, along with OHP spins and an assload of promotional opportunities to the point of near or definite overexposure. If so, my bad. Well, I understand where you're coming from with that last paragraph. But I disagree with underappreciated and deserted. His sales were great and his exposure was great. I don't see any reason they wouldn't want to capitalize $ on what he's built with the next era.
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sunpeach
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Post by sunpeach on Dec 22, 2009 5:13:45 GMT -5
I love how some of you expect RCA to make those horrible songs hits- they couldn't even if they tried.
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StarSprinkles
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Post by StarSprinkles on Dec 22, 2009 11:03:44 GMT -5
I loved, loved LOVED Cook on AI, was disappointed by his CD as a whole, but I think they could have at least tried to make A Daily Anthem or Declaration do something on CHR. I'm still very surprised they never sent Declaration to Pop radio after having Cook play it at his appearances in the beginning.
I will also never understand the way RCA handled his career. They (and I have the videos on my computer to back this up) had Cook performing on every show, like, ever, for his promo. He had 28 televised and official online performances in the months of Nov. and Dec. 2008. Adam has had 9. Even without all the cancellations, he would have had about half of what Cook got.
Cook DID sell very well which is why it's a mystery to me why they didn't try harder on pop radio for him to keep up his momentum. He's lost a ridiculous amount of momentum (and visibility) when I thought that he had the best chance since Daughtry to be a viable male pop/rock artist in the industry.
The other thing thing I will never understand is why they put him on that neverending tour. I mean, it's great that he did alot of performing, but it took him off the public's radar for the entire year, and he didn't have the radio or TV presence to make up for it. He was invisible. It was another blow to his career, IMO. Touring is fine and should be done, but not where it becomes the ONLY vehicle for promotion. Then you're nothing better than your average bar band.
I dunno. If I was managing his career, this is what I'd do:
1. Record a more interesting CD. Whether that's poppier, harder, or what-just...do something different
2. Make sure there are at least 3-4 CHR hits on said album.
3. Work radio like no other. He needs that
4. Make sure he is seen on TV after the first month of initial promo. Whenever Cook performs on TV, his sales soar. He just never gets a chance to do it anymore.
5. Make interesting music videos. The Light On video still makes me LOL.
That's all I've got.
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tinawina
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Post by tinawina on Dec 22, 2009 12:35:56 GMT -5
Lots of chatter in here lately. Is it time to start a thread for the next era? Or does that wait until there is a release date?
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Post by 43dudleyvillas on Dec 22, 2009 21:55:47 GMT -5
Lots of chatter in here lately. Is it time to start a thread for the next era? Or does that wait until there is a release date? It doesn't have to wait for a release date, but I generally prefer that there be something substantial about the new album (beyond "he's writing for/recording it now") out there to warrant a new thread. Even better, some kind of officially-sanctioned media interview in which a topic like direction, song titles, release date and/or collaborators is discussed would warrant such a thread. What I would like to avoid is a new era thread whose early pages are dominated by another rehash of this "is David Cook old news to his record label?" argument. The best way to avoid that, I think, is to not start a new thread for a new era until there is some substantial information out there on the new album. I'm not aware of much out there on Cook's upcoming album beyond the fact that he has spent some time in studio with Claude Kelly...but I'm not remotely well-versed on goings-on in his world. So if there is the kind of information already out there about his sophomore album, please let me know, and we can start a new thread. But in the meantime, I think David Cook discussion can remain here.
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Post by central80 on Dec 23, 2009 7:00:18 GMT -5
what the eff is going on with this rumor cook is going to record a song for a disney compilation cd ??? my, how the mighty have fallen... all this talk from his fans about how he had ''branded'' himself as a rocker, the disdain and the condescending attitude thrown at other artists for being or associating themselves with disney, and here he is, ready to record a disney song for a disney cd ??? this is rich, and i guess rca has shuffled him off to the sidelines as the focus is on building's adam's profile...
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grey
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Post by grey on Dec 23, 2009 11:14:53 GMT -5
I hadn't heard the Disney rumor, central, do you have a link?
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Post by central80 on Dec 23, 2009 11:53:35 GMT -5
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grey
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Post by grey on Dec 23, 2009 11:56:17 GMT -5
ty
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