austin
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Post by austin on Mar 14, 2011 13:26:04 GMT -5
This pretty much sums her up for me. She's gorgeous, has the voice, and seems to be in the good graces of country radio, but her material just falls flat time and time again. Aside from "All American Girl", "Just A Dream" and "Before He Cheats", her singles are always very bland and cheesy. Even "Temporary Home", which so many on here seemed to like, was predictable and forgettable, and lacked a real punch to get it's point across. She has some decent album tracks, but she needs to take the better half of this year focusing on singing some excellent songs and come back in the Fall re-focused and better then ever. Her star is kinda dimming out in terms of star power and that umph factor with the emergence of Miranda and Sara (and Taylor absolutely dominating the sales and tour world), but Carrie is still radio's darling, so if she can get a worthy single out there she can retake her spot on top. I wouldn't call JTTW and Wasted 'very bland and cheesy', tho. I would say the singles from her first two albums were pretty accurate. But yes, 'Play On' was a dissapointment for me. It was pretty much all over the place. Tracks like SWISLY and WCIS were very beautiful, and then you have tracks like Undo It and Play On which were imo the opposit. Those songs are way below her talent. Not to mention songs like Change which didn't fit the album at all, it should have been released as a single for a charity event, but should've not been on the album imo. For me it doesn't matter who she writes with, I hope she writes as much as possible. When she has loads of awesome songs, she can put it on the album. And I hope she keeps looking around for other writers songs aswell. I actually should mention that "Wasted", while I grew tired of it, was definitely a well-written song. Totally forgot about that one. But JTTW is one of the cheesiest in my opinion. And I echo the sentiments that Play On was the weakest era, and considering I don't own the album (but have streamed it and heard all the songs several times), the single choices were atrocious. "Mama's Song" may have been the worst single of 2010.
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Post by countryfan1985 on Mar 14, 2011 15:41:04 GMT -5
I'm sorry to say this but I think you guys are giving Carrie a hard time, why can't you people just be happy with what songs Carrie picks to be on this 4th ablum. Even though we all have different opinions, we should just be happy with what Carrie picks. I for one love all the songs that Carrie has made/pick on the last 3 ablums (SH,CR,PO) :). I have to disagree with you guys that says MS was the worst song ever in 2010 or the songs are cheesy or this PO era was weak..
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neally
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Post by neally on Mar 14, 2011 20:13:38 GMT -5
I've never been a fan of Carrie's, but of late it's obviously hard to find fault with the strength and consistency of her vocals, her image, and her maintenance of her place in country music. The only thing really holding her back--though she is by no means struggling--is her material. She has a lot of goodwill at country radio so she won't have a problem getting a hit, but her material tends to lean toward bland and cheesy. There's no reason she can't be churning out material as strong as Evans or Lambert. I pretty much agree with you also. I feel that the star power and vocal calibre of Carrie should rewarded with better material for her records. I feel strongly that Carrie's albums have progressively declined in quality with each album, which I find disturbing, because one would expect improved quality with increased age (wisdom and life experience) and increased songwriting credits with each album. After a year and half of digesting 'Play On', I can honestly and more objectively state that, IMO, it is a mediocre quality record at best, with only 'Someday' as the only song that I listen to with any significant frequency in the past 6 months. I did not quite understand the relatively poor ratings of the record initially, probably because I, like most of us, was simply excited to hear new Carrie material. Reading the last two pages of this thread inspired me to revist the metacritic site and re-read each of the "professional" critic reviews. Sadly, I have to agree with several of them. For those who are interested, here is a link to the metacritic compilation of the reviews of 'Play On'. It scored a fairly low average rating of "53" out of a possible 100 although only based on 9 reviews: www.metacritic.com/music/play-on/critic-reviews
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Gravity.
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Post by Gravity. on Mar 14, 2011 21:33:46 GMT -5
I'm in the minority, but I think that Play On is her strongest effort. I also don't think that Some Hearts is as good as most make it out to be, but it's a very solid Idol debut album. (I rank it second after Kris Allen's debut.)
I agree with Neally that Carrie should be singing better material. However, I don't think that her material is any weaker than anyone else in mainstream country music. Carrie has one of the best voices in country today; it's time to record an epic masterpiece. I think that Carrie should look into Trisha Yearwood's discography and take some notes. Trisha rarely has a dud song, and her albums are all mostly killer.
For the next record, I hope Carrie ditches Kara DioGuardi as a co-writer. Kara's decent at hooks, but I don't care for her writing. Ditching, or at least tuning down, Mark Bright might not be a bad idea either.
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cufan7
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Post by cufan7 on Mar 14, 2011 22:03:44 GMT -5
I agree with Neally that Carrie should be singing better material. However, I don't think that her material is any weaker than anyone else in mainstream country music. That's what I don't get. I feel like people are comparing Carrie's material to what she could or should be recording, and not her actual competition on Country radio... And that's what irks me about people's reasoning for not getting some awards that she probably deserves. "Because she's not rising to her full potential". Well if it's on par or better than other artists out there, why is she snubbed because "she isn't doing what she could be doing"? I don't know, that reasoning just doesn't seem fair to me.
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leilamaurizia
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Post by leilamaurizia on Mar 14, 2011 22:29:18 GMT -5
Did something happen with SWISLY that I'm not aware of? It entered the iTunes top 200 country songs at #199. I know that that only signifies a minimal number of sales but still, I've never seen it randomly enter the chart like that.
SLT is getting some radio play and it's not even in the top 200 yet.
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Typo
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Post by Typo on Mar 14, 2011 22:35:30 GMT -5
Did something happen with SWISLY that I'm not aware of? It entered the iTunes top 200 country songs at #199. I know that that only signifies a minimal number of sales but still, I've never seen it randomly enter the chart like that. That article titled 'Top 10 Country Songs That Aren't Singles...Yet' over at The Boot probably generated interest in the song. I know it was featured on the homepage of AOL this morning. SWISLY came in at #1 on the list, here's the full write-up: Few vocalists are able to convey pure emotion quite as effectively as Carrie. Her latest album produced the in-your-face smashes 'Cowboy Casanova' and 'Undo It,' but the album's true strength lies in its quieter moments. 'Someday When I Stop Loving You,' which rivals as Carrie's best vocal performance, is an exquisite country ballad that confirms she is one of the most gifted singers of her generation.
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neally
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Post by neally on Mar 14, 2011 23:32:11 GMT -5
Did something happen with SWISLY that I'm not aware of? It entered the iTunes top 200 country songs at #199. I know that that only signifies a minimal number of sales but still, I've never seen it randomly enter the chart like that. That article titled 'Top 10 Country Songs That Aren't Singles...Yet' over at The Boot probably generated interest in the song. I know it was featured on the homepage of AOL this morning. SWISLY came in at #1 on the list, here's the full write-up: Few vocalists are able to convey pure emotion quite as effectively as Carrie. Her latest album produced the in-your-face smashes 'Cowboy Casanova' and 'Undo It,' but the album's true strength lies in its quieter moments. 'Someday When I Stop Loving You,' which rivals as Carrie's best vocal performance, is an exquisite country ballad that confirms she is one of the most gifted singers of her generation. Not to be a broken record, I can not hold my peace on this past era: To this day, I still begrudge the individual(s) responsible for choosing Carrie's 'Play On' radio singles. While I may be in the minority on this one, I still find 'Mama's Song' to be an embarrassingly horrid song both melodically and lyrically and 'Temporary Home' to be just meh. Though, I totally can appreciate the personal meaning of both co-penned tracks to Carrie. The fact that these less than mediocre (IMO of course) songs peaked at #1 and #2 respectively on country radio reconfirms my previous suspicion that Carrie is one of those elite group of artists on country radio who could release a total garbage song and it would likely chart at least top 5 simply on her name alone. Therefore, I am still in a bit of disbelief that Carrie's fan-favourite and possibly best critically rated ballad on 'Play On', 'Someday', was criminally robbed of it's spotlight, single opportunity to country radio, not to mention that the 'Play On' era ended with 'Mama's Song'. Admittedly, I have been anxiously awaiting all bloody era for a HQ performance of 'Someday' on a big stage (Grammys, ACM, CMT, People's Choice, etc award shows), a wish which probably will never come to fruition... :'(
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Stephen
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Post by Stephen on Mar 14, 2011 23:34:44 GMT -5
I think it's that people connected to both songs, neally. Just IMO, of course.
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slayZ
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Post by slayZ on Mar 14, 2011 23:36:22 GMT -5
Someday When I Stop Loving you is literally the theme song to my life lately. It's so beautiful. I still don't understand how she pushed for Mama's Song over this. :/
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2011 23:45:39 GMT -5
Ugh. This PO era could've gone so much better.
Debut single? "Cowboy Casanova" was the right choice. It was a smash, and was a great way to introduce the album. "Undo It" was a decent choice, mainly because it was so poorly written. However, it was too catchy to not release, so I agree with their decision on getting this one to radio. Those 2 songs both went Platinum and #1, so they obviously weren't very big mistakes. "Temporary Home" was a decent choice to make a single. I personally love the song (it takes on a very personal meaning for me), but probably wouldn't have made it the second single from the album. Actually, I probably wouldn't have made it a single at all if I was in control. "Mama's Song" was a terrible choice for a single, but it was personal to Carrie due to the specific timing in her life. I'm happy she did what she wanted, but the fact that the song is poorly written didn't help the fact that it's just bland.
If I were to release the singles, it would've consisted of: 1. "Cowboy Casanova" 2. "What Can I Say?" 3. "Undo It" 4. "Someday When I Stop Loving You" 5. "This Time" or "Quitter" 6. End out the era with "Play On"
We could be getting a special performance for a non-single song, though. Seeing as she most likely WON'T release a single before the ACMs (and she'll obviously be there because she'll be in Vegas the following night to be honored at the "Girl's Night Out" special), I highly doubt the reigning 2x EOTY won't perform.
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Typo
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Post by Typo on Mar 14, 2011 23:51:44 GMT -5
The fact that these less than mediocre (IMO of course) songs peaked at #1 and #2 respectively on country radio reconfirms my previous suspicion that Carrie is one of those elite group of artists on country radio who could release a total garbage song and it would likely chart at least top 5 simply on her name alone. I'm confused as to how this is even...notable? Plenty of garbage songs reach the top spot. I mean, just look, 'Don't You Wanna Stay' is the current #1 at country radio. It happens all of the time. You can't just infer that her name is carrying these songs because you view them as 'garbage'. It doesn't work like that.
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neally
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Post by neally on Mar 15, 2011 0:09:25 GMT -5
The fact that these less than mediocre (IMO of course) songs peaked at #1 and #2 respectively on country radio reconfirms my previous suspicion that Carrie is one of those elite group of artists on country radio who could release a total garbage song and it would likely chart at least top 5 simply on her name alone. I'm confused as to how this is even...notable? Plenty of garbage songs reach the top spot. I mean, just look, 'Don't You Wanna Stay' is the current #1 at country radio. It happens all of the time. You can't just infer that her name is carrying these songs because you view them as 'garbage'. It doesn't work like that. 'Garbage' is naturally a subjective term used partially in jest, but one can not deny that a song's callout score and digitals sales are fairly accurate markers of audience feedback. There is a pretty obvious list of country artists who can release songs and be guaranteed a top 5 charting, regardless of how crooked as country radio charts may appear; however, songs like 'Dont' You Wanna Stay' which has consistently been #1 on country radio callout scores and #1 on iTunes country digital sales charts could hardly be considered "garbage" songs, IMO, given the strong audience feedback, no ? Getting back on topic about Carrie, rather than Jason Aldean, do you or anyone else have the callout scores and iTunes sales to date for 'Mama's Song' ? I do not know either of these statistics, but I would guess both are not very high. If so, then the song clearly did not connect with country radio's audience, which would solidy my theory about charting based on radio as well as unique country radio "factors", lol...
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Typo
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Post by Typo on Mar 15, 2011 0:12:32 GMT -5
however songs like 'Dont' You Wanna Stay' which has consistently been #1 on country radio callout scores and #1 on iTunes country digital sales charts could hardly be considered "garbage" songs, lmao.... Uh, yeah. That makes absolutely no sense. 'Tik Tok' has sold millions of records, and based on your posting history I seriously doubt you would consider it anything but garbage. You've also shown a high disdain for 'Born This Way' yet it's topped the Hot 100 for weeks. A song can achieve a high level of success and still be garbage. So, just stop. It's very rare for quality and success to come hand-in-hand. 'The House That Built Me' comes to mind.
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clarksodi
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Post by clarksodi on Mar 15, 2011 0:12:47 GMT -5
^ LMAO at the "Don't You Wanna Stay" shade.
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Stephen
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Post by Stephen on Mar 15, 2011 0:16:47 GMT -5
It ain't shade. It's the truth. Like MS, the song is beautifully sung but lyrically pedestrian.
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Black Jesus
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Post by Black Jesus on Mar 15, 2011 0:17:00 GMT -5
however songs like 'Dont' You Wanna Stay' which has consistently been #1 on country radio callout scores and #1 on iTunes country digital sales charts could hardly be considered "garbage" songs, lmao.... Uh, yeah. That makes absolutely no sense. 'Tik Tok' has sold millions of records, and based on your posting history I seriously doubt you would consider it anything but garbage. A song can achieve a high level of success and still be garbage. So, just stop. It's very rare for quality and success to come hand-in-hand. 'The House That Built Me' comes to mind. DYWS is a great song...and don't act like such instances are so rare. Tons of country music can surely be considered "garbage" that do well on the charts, as well as lots of "pop" music. I, myself, wouldn't be so quick to say something like that as a Carrie fan because I think songs like "Songs Like This" fall into that category. It's just best not to generalize. Sure it's not one of the best songs ever but it's a song that's sung by a huge artist on the rise with one of the biggest stars in the music industry...of course it's going to smash.
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neally
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Post by neally on Mar 15, 2011 0:20:21 GMT -5
A song can achieve a high level of success and still be garbage. So, just stop. It's very rare for quality and success to come hand-in-hand. 'The House That Built Me' comes to mind. I agree completely with the last statement, but comparing the pop genre and country genre is a bit tricky. It seems that in the pop genre, songs with a catchy beat can historically achieve huge success, regardless of lyrical quality (eg: 'Boom Boom Pow'). Country radio more consistently seems to value lyrics and vocals (some facets which folks use as a measuring stick of "quality") over catchy beats more consistently than pop radio, IMO. Based on the opinions posted about 'Mama's Song' in this thread, I would respectfully disagree that the majority of country audience "connected" with 'Mama's Song'. However, if the iTunes sales and callout scores are good, then clearly I am wrong. On another note, I apologize that my opinion of Carrie's most recent single elicits such a reaction from you, but I am interested in hearing others' opinion on the matter. If you wish to carry on the discussion, please post your opinion in here as I am doing or PM me, but please never instruct me when to "stop" my thoughts or discussion on the matter. Thanks.
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slayZ
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Post by slayZ on Mar 15, 2011 0:25:55 GMT -5
I'm probably in the minority here but I loved Temporary Home and I was happy it was released. I was actually hoping Change would be released too. It's beautiful, and very Carrie.
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Typo
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Post by Typo on Mar 15, 2011 0:39:48 GMT -5
There is no way you will ever be able to determine quality by success. It's not going to happen and you shouldn't even attempt it.
That goes for any and all genres of music forms of art.
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neally
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Post by neally on Mar 15, 2011 0:49:10 GMT -5
There is no way you will ever be able to determine quality by success. It's not going to happen and you shouldn't even attempt it. That goes for any and all genres of music. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I strongly feel country radio callout scores and sales seem to correlate directly with quality (based on critical success) moreso than other mainstream radio genres, such as pop and R&B. I think an even stronger correlation of success: quality can be made when a song achieves that rare multi-week chart topping success on country radio today and has strong country callout scores and digital sales. Good discussion ;)
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slayZ
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Post by slayZ on Mar 15, 2011 1:33:32 GMT -5
i'll move on baby just like youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu </3
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desertfloods
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Post by desertfloods on Mar 15, 2011 5:39:19 GMT -5
There is no way you will ever be able to determine quality by success. It's not going to happen and you shouldn't even attempt it. That goes for any and all genres of music. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I strongly feel country radio callout scores and sales seem to correlate directly with quality (based on critical success) moreso than other mainstream radio genres, such as pop and R&B. I think an even stronger correlation of success: quality can be made when a song achieves that rare multi-week chart topping success on country radio today and has strong country callout scores and digital sales. I disagree with you neally. There are many good singles out there that didn't get multi-week no.1s or platinum sales. Good callout scores/sales and multi-week chart topper merely show that a song appealed/connected to a wide range of audience. It doesn't necessarily mean the song is of high quality. Just like how movie quality can't be measured using box office results. Not ganging up on you, neally, but by your reasoning "Jesus, Take the Wheel" (which spent 6 weeks at #1, is platinum, and had great callout) would be considered Carrie's best song. While I love it, I know that a lot of people would disagree, Sara Evans included. When it comes to discussion of quality, YMMV inevitably comes in regardless of chart position, callout scores, and sales. I would agree with you more if you used these as measures of a song's popularity. Yup, I'm one of those who would disagree that JTTW is Carrie's best single. It's actually one of my least fave from her.
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leilamaurizia
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Post by leilamaurizia on Mar 15, 2011 8:52:26 GMT -5
I agree, desertfloods, on the "wide range of audience" point especially, which is a huge factor in all 3 (sales, callout, radio play).
Some examples of great songs released as singles that didn't get multi-week no.1s or platinum sales: Trisha Yearwood's "This is Me You're Talking To" (#25 country peak) and Reba's "The Only Promise that Remains" (didn't chart at all). A classic example would be Martina McBride's critically-acclaimed signature song "Independence Day" which only peaked at #12.
Not ganging up on you, neally, but by your reasoning "Jesus, Take the Wheel" (which spent 6 weeks at #1, is platinum, and had great callout) would be considered Carrie's best song. While I love it, I know that a lot of people would disagree, Sara Evans included. When it comes to discussion of quality, YMMV inevitably comes in regardless of chart position, callout scores, and sales. I would agree with you more if you used these as measures of a song's popularity.
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austin
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Post by austin on Mar 15, 2011 10:03:59 GMT -5
"Mama's Song" made it to #2 on the chart. That tells me all I need to know about chart positioning not being a good indicator of quality.
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what
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Post by what on Mar 15, 2011 10:11:59 GMT -5
DYWS is a great song...and don't act like such instances are so rare. Tons of country music can surely be considered "garbage" that do well on the charts, as well as lots of "pop" music. I, myself, wouldn't be so quick to say something like that as a Carrie fan because I think songs like "Songs Like This" fall into that category. It's just best not to generalize. Sure it's not one of the best songs ever but it's a song that's sung by a huge artist on the rise with one of the biggest stars in the music industry...of course it's going to smash. im confused...songs like this hasnt even been confirmed to being released as a single. how will it do well on the charts?
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neally
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Post by neally on Mar 15, 2011 10:22:04 GMT -5
quality can be made when a song achieves that rare multi-week chart topping success on country radio today and has strong country callout scores and digital sales. You're serious? With that logic, are you saying that some song, when initially released, is horrible but, when it ultimately reaches number-one for several weeks, it is of better quality? What if that same song peaked around #4, is that song horrible or amazing? Quality is not determined by the song's peak position. Quality can only be "made" in the studio. Quality and success in any genre of course are not mutually dependent on each other. My point was that in country music, I feel that there is better correlation between the usual markers of a song's success and quality compared to other formats. When one factors callout score, digital sales, radio success, that correlation seems to strength, IMO. "Mama's Song" made it to #2 on the chart. That tells me all I need to know about chart positioning not being a good indicator of quality. Does anyone know the callout scores for 'Mama's Song' ? I have looked up the digital sales for the song, which is probably one of the poorest performing for Carrie. If the callout scores were low, then that combination with poor digital sales would confirm my suspicion that Carrie's name (as well as the extremely strange appearing factors on radio charts- payola, hosting weekend countdown charts, etc.) gave the song a high peak. In that case, I completely agree with you, austin since I feel callout scores and digital sales need to be factored into the whole "quality" correlation equation. There are probably so many country artists that I have never heard of that have very high critically acclaimed material, but sadly never achieve great country radio chart success. I feel that Carrie is one of country's superstars who could put out poorly critically received and poorly publicly received material and be guaranteed an almost top 5-10 peak on country radio. This is one of the biggest reasons why I am upset that 'Someday' was never released, since I feel that Carrie has a leg up over her competition because of my opinion of what her name guarantees her on country radio....
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Post by countrygirl918 on Mar 15, 2011 13:05:23 GMT -5
I'm going to agree with the "quantity does not equal quality" argument. If we were going to say that huge sales and big box office numbers mean that product is the best of the year, then we're agreeing that films like Twilight and Iron Man were two of the best quality films of 2010. And just... no.
While Mama's Song is one of my least favorites from Play On, and I certainly agree it was the worst single decision of this era (and of all Carrie's single decisions ever), I still disagree with the extreme level of hate it gets. It may be simplistic lyrically, but I think it's a subject matter that is very relateable to the casual listener (I know many female friends and family members who aren't necessarily Carrie fans, but tend to state that Mama's Song and Temporary Home are two of their favorite country songs of the past year). It's so subjective. I also think both songs showcased a new side to Carrie vocally, which I was pleased to see. It's nice to see her being a bit softer with her voice every now and then, occasionally using that beautiful head voice she has. I think both songs could have benefited from being a little bit more specific, especially Mama's Song, in regards to the lyrics. We know that Carrie is capable of this (see: Oklahoma Wind), but I think she's still at a stage in her songwriting career where she needs to have the right co-writers in the room to bring that out of her. I don't think that Kara DioGuardi is right for that job, but Bill Anderson and Jon Randall clearly are.
I like that Carrie has been experimenting and trying new things with each album. Play On showed the most artistic growth, IMO, because it showed that she's learning to use her voice in different ways and is growing as a songwriter. Does she still need a bit of growth in terms of songwriting and choosing the right songs for an album? Absolutely. But she's definitely going in the right direction, from what I've seen and heard.
On another note, I'm going to join in with those hoping for a surprise performance of "Someday" at the ACMs. It could be like the time she performed "I Know You Won't" on the PCAs as a gift for the fans who she knew loved the song, but wouldn't get to see it as a single. I don't think the fan and critical praise of "Someday" has gone completely unnoticed by Carrie. I think the only thing that could potentially upset the possibility of this performance is if she does a tribute performance instead, or doesn't perform at all (but considering she's the reigning two-time EOTY, I can't see that happening).
(By the way, I don't have Mama's Song's callout scores, but its most recent digital sales are about 375,000. Which, yes, is low for Carrie, but it's higher than the digital sales for "Don't Forget to Remember Me," which I think is one of Carrie's best songs.)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2011 16:08:36 GMT -5
I'm probably in the minority here but I loved Temporary Home and I was happy it was released. I was actually hoping Change would be released too. It's beautiful, and very Carrie. In the beginning of the era, I was hoping the same, as well. However, after hearing Carrie perform it at the CNN Heroes special in 2009, and again at Idol Gives Back in 2010, I think it was more of a "featured single" rather than an "official single". I'm still happy with the publicity the song has gotten. It's sold over 100k for not being an official single.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2011 16:26:47 GMT -5
Oh, and SLT cracked the Top 50 this week on BB.
"CARRIE UNDERWOOD's "Songs Like This" advances 52-48 with a bullet on Hot Country Songs.
IdolsNow (idolsnow) on Twitter"
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