What's Happening To The CHR Panel?

[atlantaboy]

Just wanted to know what people thought of this new trend, which I think is gonna make it nearly impossible for anything non-rhythmic to go Top 5 on the pop chart-

The Raleigh, NC market is just the latest to develop a "second CHR" station which plays nothing but rhythmic and pop-rhythmic music - it seems like there are now at least 30 major or mid-sized markets with two CHRs - one heritage CHR which plays all genres of music, and one "new CHR" which basically plays the Rhythmic chart, only prioritizing Katy Perry and Kesha over Chris Brown and Trey Songz

If this were 1993, all these new stations would be calling themselves "Rhythmic" and reporting to a separate chart, but somewhere along the line it's now become acceptible to call yourself CHR even if you refuse to touch anything that doesn't chart on Rhythmic

IMO the result is a pop chart similar to what R&R had back in 1991-1992 - after the development of Rhythmic stations, but before these stations were recategorized as a different format

And as these "pop-rhythmic" CHRs pop up in more and more markets, I also wonder what's going to happen to the Rhythmic format (since these stations are basically taking the audience that years ago would've been loyal fans of Rhythmic)

[Rurry]

Yeah there's a huge rhythmic overload right now, and it seemed like things were starting to get more diversified on CHR from '07 - '09...I think the whole rhythmic CHR thing is dumb. They should just call themselves rhythmics.

I wonder if there will a backlash to all of this rhythmic stuff like there was in the 90s.

[musicfanpete]

Nov 1, 2010 21:37:37 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

Just wanted to know what people thought of this new trend, which I think is gonna make it nearly impossible for anything non-rhythmic to go Top 5 on the pop chart-

The Raleigh, NC market is just the latest to develop a "second CHR" station which plays nothing but rhythmic and pop-rhythmic music - it seems like there are now at least 30 major or mid-sized markets with two CHRs - one heritage CHR which plays all genres of music, and one "new CHR" which basically plays the Rhythmic chart, only prioritizing Katy Perry and Kesha over Chris Brown and Trey Songz

If this were 1993, all these new stations would be calling themselves "Rhythmic" and reporting to a separate chart, but somewhere along the line it's now become acceptible to call yourself CHR even if you refuse to touch anything that doesn't chart on Rhythmic

IMO the result is a pop chart similar to what R&R had back in 1991-1992 - after the development of Rhythmic stations, but before these stations were recategorized as a different format

And as these "pop-rhythmic" CHRs pop up in more and more markets, I also wonder what's going to happen to the Rhythmic format (since these stations are basically taking the audience that years ago would've been loyal fans of Rhythmic)

Yeah, something needs to be done regarding reclassifying stations that are miscategorized, not only rhythmic stations posing as mainstream CHR's, but mainstream CHR's posing as Hot AC's.

One of the results of having a market with a mainstream CHR that is already 75% rhythmic along with a full-fledged rhythmic station is that some Hot AC's are now leaning or have completely morphed into mainstream CHR's while still reporting Hot AC.

Case in point is WTMX in Chicago. With two "CHR's" so rhythmic leaning (though B-96 has been classified Rhythmic since 1992 or so), the Mix has been skewing more mainstream CHR by the day for awhile now. I even heard "OMG!" by Will.I.Am on there during the lunch hour today! Now when you have a Hot AC that should be classified as a CHR, a "CHR" in Kiss 103.5 that should be reporting Rhythmic, AND an AC in Fresh 105.9 that should be classified as a Hot AC, you know we have serious issues when it comes to where stations should be classifed.

I know it's all about advertising dollars and today's listeners' tastes, but still things need to be reevalutated pretty quickly because like you said atlantaboy, any non-rhythmic song will have no fair chance of cracking the upper reaches of the CHR chart which is not what the traditional definition of a pure pop format is about. Hopefully each panel will be evaluated and tweaked in due time.

[J. Rob]

Same thing has been going on with the Rhythmic panel itself. Full-fledged Urbans have been reporting to the Rhythmic Panel for a while now, which is why you see non-crossover Urban artists like Rick Ross, Jazmine Sullivan, Keyshia Cole or Young Jeezy consistently charting at Rhythmic.

It really annoys me for some reason

[atlantaboy]

Lol Urbans are reporting to Rhythmic, Rhythmics are reporting to CHR, and CHRs are reporting to Hot AC

Everyone wants to classify themselves according to the format that gets better advertising $$$

[Minor Scratch]

I think demographics and musical tastes are changing as well. When today's CHR station is 75% upbeat Rhythmic product, who wants to hear a random rock ballad thrown in the mix? CHR playlists are almost straight up 24 hr DJ mixes with commercials in the middle now. That alone will stop AC and rock tracks from charting high.

[atlantaboy]

Nov 5, 2010 21:43:06 GMT -5 Minor Scratch said:

When today's CHR station is 75% upbeat Rhythmic product, who wants to hear a random rock ballad thrown in the mix?

Isn't that the definition of Rhythmic though?

[Minor Scratch]

True, but a regular radio listener doesn't know the difference between CHR and Rhythmic. They only know the music that they like, and if Rhythmic product is fueling high ratings on CHR, then PDs are not gonna switch it up.

[Marv]

As I've stated before, Sean Ross of www.radio-info.com pointed out when he was Billboard's CHR/Pop columnist in 2003 that all of Clear Channel's CHRs are patterned after WKFS/Cincinnati, which has been a CHR/Pop station in name only since its inception with a very simply playlist---go early & heavy on all rhythmic product, much slower in adding rock product, and keeping ballads to a minimum.

Consequently CHR/Pop radio today has essentially three rock acts which are staples on the format; Nickelback, Green Day & Rob Thomas, with a little Daughtry or John Mayer thrown in.

The radio biz is certainly as addicted to copying success stories as any other entity. and the spectacular success of KAMP-LA in not only shooting into the top three ratings-wise, but combining with market-leader KIIS-FM in growing the CHR listening share in LA to a staggering 9.9--shades of the fall of 1984, when KIIS hit a TEN share certainly caught the industry's attention.

There are undoubtedly tons of record label execs who've been ticked off at KIIS & other top 40 powerhouses for ages for playing almost no rock product, and they certainly have to be disappointed that KAMP isn't playing a heck of a lot more rock music than KIIS is.

If a newly-launched CHR/Rhythmic station takes a bite out of the local CHR/Pop legend (KKHH & KRBE/Houston), that's another strategy which will certainly be studied.

KAMPs success has certainly contributed to a ton of format flips into top 40 recently, and I wouldn't be surprised if we get a couple more after the holidays.

I know it's awfully hard to tell a top 40 station from a CHR/Rhythmic in many markets (Chicago is the best example, but there are tons of others), but the line between top 40 & Hot AC/Adult Top 40 is pretty clear.

I'd just look for the station with the most and widest range of rock product with a splash of dance music (KBIG/KHMX/KPLZ), and there's your Hot AC station, which can also serve many markets very well (Atlanta is certainly a no-brainer) as the market's pop station.

The stranglehold which a handful of producers have had at top 40 radio for several years shows no sign of going away, and that's too bad.

[musicfanpete]

Well put Marv! It looks like this is the way things will be for the foreseeable future in the radio industry, whether we like it or not.

[atlantaboy]

This is basically the same situation we had back in 1992 I think - teens like pop/rhythmic, adults like rock/HAC (just look at the I-Tunes chart) - only in '92, CHRs that chose to branch off and play all rhythmic (pop/rhythmic) music were reclassified as "CHR/Rhythmic" and reported to a separate pop chart (which became the Rhythmic chart) - the same thing is happening now, only stations choosing to play all pop/rhythmic music are not being reclassified

Like Minor Scratch said, agree that most listeners don't know the difference between Rhythmic and a "Rhythmic" CHR anyway - the only effect this is having IMO is on the actual CHR chart, which I think is becoming kind of meaningless

[Marv]

Like lots of other baby-boomers, I gave up on KIIS-FM & top 40 radio in general in the late eighties/early nineties; 1985 & 1988 were sensational years for the format, in spite of the numerous hard-rock acts who were downright huge back then.

The crop of female vocalists back then (starting with the beyond astonishing Marie Frederiksson of Roxette), as well as Taylor Dayne, Mariah Carey & Whitney Houston certainly runs circles around the current crop of lightweights; remove Alicia Keys & Christina Aguilera from today's cadre of female singers, and the leftovers are pretty gruesome IMHO.

The format tailed off for me starting in 1991, and the onslaught of Kriss Kross ('Jump'), 'End Of The Road' & 'I Will Always Love You' in 1992 was the final straw; although none of those songs were getting more than 60-65 SPSPW, it seemed a heck of a lot worse.

To this date, I still have no idea how the exceptional 'Sometimes Love Just Ain't Enough' by Don Henley & Patty Smyth not only received any airplay at top 40 radio to begin with, but eventually hit #1 that fall.

Top 40 seemed to lose its way for several years; whether it received a boost in 1997 thanks to the one-two punch of alternative stuff (Wallflowers/MB20/Third Eye Blind) and an explosion of really lightweight pop stuff (BackStreetBoys/'NSync/Spice Girls) depends on whether or not you could tolerate stuff like that.

[Libra]

I feel like an across-the-board reclassification of stations where they truly belong would fix everything. Didn't a large readjustment of stations happen within the past couple years though?

I also feel like there needs to be a crackdown on the CC stations - it doesn't matter what the current musical trends are, their stations' spin trends are capable of AND ARE controlling the chart, and that's just plain criminal.

[atlantaboy]

^Yeah agreed...Seattle just got a pop/rhythmic CHR too I think (saw it on another board - either they have one now, or they're getting one soon)

[Rurry]

I agree that there needs to be some kind of re-classification going on. Regular CHRs and 'rhythmic' CHRs really shouldn't be counted for the same chart. I don't see why these new 'rhythmic' CHRs like Now 92.3 in NYC and all of them can't simply just be called rhythmic stations.

[Mega248]

I think there are also a few too many stations on the AC panel that really belong on Pop. One look at the AC chart now versus 5 years ago shows all.

[atlantaboy]

The other thing IMO is that most of these "pop/rhythmic" CHRs are losing to the mainstream CHRs in almost every market, with just a handful of exceptions - tons of pop/rhythmic CHRs have terrible ratings, including Now 92.3 in NYC (18th in its market), WKSC/Chicago (14th in its market), WLIF/Dallas (18th in its market), and WDZH/Detroit (12th in its market)

OTHER UNPOPULAR POP/RHYTHMIC CHRS:
KTFM/San Antonio (16th in the market), WRMW/Indianapolis (17th in the market), WNFN/Nashville (18th in the market), WMKS/Greensboro (10th in the market), WFKS/Jacksonville (10th in the market), WKGS/Rochester (11th in the market), and WBVD/Melbourne (11th in the market)

So the CHR chart is being flooded with rhythmic playlists from stations that aren't even popular >:(

[botoxic]

Nov 6, 2010 22:25:03 GMT -5 Marv said:

The crop of female vocalists back then (starting with the beyond astonishing Marie Frederiksson of Roxette)

I just had to quote this. Marie is AMAZING, and quite possibly my favorite singer of all time.

[atlantaboy]

Mediabase just updated their panels, and none of the Rhythmic stations on the CHR panel are being moved - someone on another board posted that stations only get moved if record labels pressure Mediabase/BDS to move them, so IMO it might be a political thing - hip-hop is dependent on its artists hitting #1, rock/HAC isn't, so the Rhythmic stations stay on the pop panel

Also noticed that the only two stations that Mediabase did move were owned by Lincoln Financial (WSTR/Atlanta) and Americom (KLCA/Reno) - but they wouldn't touch CBS stations like WWMX/Baltimore or KAMP, or any of the Clear Channel stations

[musicfanpete]

Dec 11, 2010 15:24:16 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

Mediabase just updated their panels, and none of the Rhythmic stations on the CHR panel are being moved - someone on other board posted that stations only get moved if record labels pressure Mediabase/BDS to move them, so IMO it might be a political thing - hip-hop is dependent on its artists hitting #1, rock/HAC isn't, so the Rhythmic stations stay on the pop panel

Also noticed that the only two stations that Mediabase did move were owned by Lincoln Financial (WSTR/Atlanta) and Americom (KLCA/Reno) - but they wouldn't touch CBS stations like WWMX/Baltimore or KAMP, or any of the Clear Channel stations

Oh, so it's finally official. Star 94 is now officially a Hot AC station. Yet WKRQ in Cincinnati and the aforementioned WWMX, which are more CHR leaning than many CHR's are still reporting to the Hot AC panel. Go figure!

[Libra]

Dec 11, 2010 15:24:16 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

...stations only get moved if record labels pressure Mediabase/BDS to move them, so IMO it might be a political thing - hip-hop is dependent on its artists hitting #1, rock/HAC isn't

^ THIS.

[atlantaboy]

Yeah, I don't know how else to explain KAMP - they won't even play Pink (the current CHR #1), which makes them more Rhythmic than 33 stations that are on the Rhythmic panel

My guess is that CBS says they're CHR, so they're CHR

[Marv]

I'm sure that there are a lot of label execs out there who are disappointed that KAMP (and top 40 radio is general) isn't playing more rock music, but they have gotten KIIS's attention, as evidenced by the fact that KIIS ignored Taylor Swift until KAMP came along and shot into the top five immediately, and is a very close second to KIIS in 18-34.

I also have no reason why Seattle would get a new top 40 station; KBKS was second in 18-34 the last time I looked, and plays an abnormally large amount of alternative music, as does WXXL/Orlando.

Does anybody have a link to the current AC panel?

AC has gotten substantially more adventuresome over the past several years as it relates to evolving to stay current; I recall seeing an article in R&R 3-4 years ago in which 'Complicated' was ranked second among the top 25 'Power Gold' cuts at both AC and Hot AC, behind 'Breathe' and 'Unwell', respectively.

For that reason, some AC stations might be conceived as top 40 stations in some quarters, but I highly doubt it, since most AC stations don't play their 'power songs' more than 3-4 times a day.

[atlantaboy]

Dec 11, 2010 23:36:38 GMT -5 Marv said:

I'm sure that there are a lot of label execs out there who are disappointed that KAMP (and top 40 radio is general) isn't playing more rock music

To me, I don't see how anyone could seriously consider KAMP to be a Top 40 station - here's their current playlist...

1 1 USHER F/ PITBULL DJ Got Us Fallin' In Love 130 131 -1
3 2 BRUNO MARS Just The Way You Are 127 130 -3
8 3 YOLANDA BE COOL & DCUP We No Speak Americano 105 60 45
9 4 RIHANNA What's My Name? f/ Drake 94 57 37
2 5 FAR EAST MOVEMENT Like A G6 f/ Cataracs & Dev 84 130 -46
4 6 DAVID GUETTA Memories f/ Kid Cudi 83 115 -32
5 7 RIHANNA Ony Girl (In The World) 68 106 -38
11 8 KATY PERRY Firework 61 51 10
6 9 KATY PERRY Teenage Dream 59 63 -4
55 10 CHRIS BROWN Deuces f/ Tyga & Kevin McCall 57 10 47
14 11 PITBULL Hey Baby (Drop It To The...) 53 44 9
13 12 NELLY Just A Dream 49 44 5
40 13 KESHA We R Who We R 48 14 34
19 14 NICKI MINAJ Fly f/ Rihanna 43 26 17
17 15 TREY SONGZ Bottoms Up f/ Nicki Minaj 40 28 12
75 16 BRUNO MARS Grenade 35 4 31
7 17 RICHARD VISSION/STATIC REVENGE I Like That f/ Luciana 35 61 -26
25 18 DEV Bass Down Low f/ The Catarcs 32 19 13
12 19 TAIO CRUZ Dynamite 28 46 -18
16 20 MIKE POSNER Please Don't Go 25 30 -5
18 21 EDWARD MAYA Stereo Love 24 27 -3
20 22 FLO RIDA Club Can't Handle Me f/ David Guetta 23 25 -2
38 23 DAVID GUETTA Sexy Chick f/ Akon 22 14 8
10 24 ENRIQUE IGLESIAS I Like It f/ Pitbull 22 56 -34
34 25 USHER OMG f/ Will.iam 21 16 5
30 26 FAR EAST MOVEMENT Rocketeer f/ Ryan Tedder 20 17 3
21 27 B. O. B. Airplanes f/ Hayley Williams 19 22 -3
15 28 DAVID GUETTA Who's That Chick f/ Rihanna 19 33 -14
41 29 MANN Buzzin 19 14 5
27 30 TIMBALAND Carry Out f/ Justin Timberlake 19 19 0
33 31 LMFAO La La La (On Top Of The World) 18 16 2
23 32 EMINEM Love The Way You Lie f/ Rihanna 17 22 -5
31 33 JAY-Z Empire State Of Mind f/ Alicia Keys 17 17 0
26 34 DRAKE KANYE LIL WAYNE EMINEM Forever 16 19 -3
24 35 WIZ KHALIFA Black & Yellow 16 22 -6
28 36 LMFAO Shots f/ Lil Jon 16 18 -2
32 37 NEW BOYZ Tie Me Down f/ Ray J 16 17 -1
43 38 BLACK EYED PEAS Boom Boom Pow 15 13 2
39 39 JEREMIH Birthday Sex 15 14 1
22 40 BLACK EYED PEAS The Time (The Dirty Bit) 14 22 -8

[Marv]

Since that's definitely not a Hot AC, AC or CHR/Rhythmic station's playlist, it can't be anything else but a top 40 station,.

Consequently, in a market that's 45% Hispanic, it's bound to be as stuffed with rhythmic product as KIIS has been for years.

[atlantaboy]

Dec 12, 2010 11:46:53 GMT -5 Marv said:

Since that's definitely not a Hot AC, AC or CHR/Rhythmic station's playlist, it can't be anything else but a top 40 station,.

Don't see how that's not a CHR/Rhythmic playlist - if you look up the playlist for B96/Chicago (which reports to the Rhythmic panel), it's less rhythmic than KAMP

[musicfanpete]

Dec 12, 2010 11:46:53 GMT -5 Marv said:

Since that's definitely not a Hot AC, AC or CHR/Rhythmic station's playlist, it can't be anything else but a top 40 station,.

Consequently, in a market that's 45% Hispanic, it's bound to be as stuffed with rhythmic product as KIIS has been for years.

How is that not a rhythmic playlist? There's not one rock leaning song on there.

[Marv]

That's been a problem at top 40 radio ever since Clear Channel decided to model all of their top 40 stations after WKFS several years ago.

While I certainly agree that there's no rock product on KAMPs playlist, I couldn't tell you the last time a rock song which was a smash nationally ('When I'm Gone and 'In The End' immediately come to mind) ever saw the light of day at KIIS.

Since top 40 radio flat-out ignored Bon Jovi's 'We Werent Born To Follow' a few montha ago, KIIS & KAMP have lots of company in that regard.

I wasn't aware that CHR/Rhythmic stations were playing Katy Perry or Ke$ha, which is why I didn't consider KAMP to be a CHR/rhythmic station.

The mass launching of numerous CHR/Pop stations since KAMP rocked the industry almost two years ago isn't a surprise, but there's no guarantees that any of those stations will succeed as phenomenally as KAMP has.

The new top 40 outlets in Green Bay & Louisville, both of which are going up against heritage CHR/Pop stations, will certainly be watched very closely.

[atlantaboy]

Dec 12, 2010 21:02:02 GMT -5 Marv said:

That's been a problem at top 40 radio ever since Clear Channel decided to model all of their top 40 stations after WKFS several years ago.

At least those Clear Channel stations play Raise Your Glass (and have it in power), and play acts like Neon Trees, Taylor Swift, and One Republic

To me, KAMP is in a category all by itself

[tico]

I can listen to a number of Clear Channel CHRs on my iPhone via the I Heart Radio app and they all sound the same to me.