PDC1987
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Post by PDC1987 on Jan 15, 2012 13:03:28 GMT -5
It's amazing that Madonna can still cause this much commotion thirty years on. That in and of itself says quite a lot. I really don't think it's all her this time around. The digital age and the advent of social networking has amplified any so-called controversy. Now *everyone* can hear about it literally within minutes of its alleged conception. Plus, I honestly believe people are obsessing over pettier and pettier stuff all the time. |
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slw84
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I only tolerate legends
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Post by slw84 on Jan 15, 2012 13:19:31 GMT -5
So essentially you're saying that because she was a winner of circumstance, being the first woman to achieve a lot of things (and she did, though people like Marilyn, Deborah Harry and a few others have as well), no other woman should be able to win acclaim or have any sort of status that attributes them as achieving something because it's been done before? >>>Well, Madonna rose to fame before the Internet age...if ppl want to be inspired now, they have to understand what they are getting themselves into...I prefer if people just come up with something new but bringing it to mass media first does have its strong advantages over a 'reductive' rehash...sips tea.Nearly every major female pop star is compared to Madonna at the beginning of their career. It's like a stepping stone. Gwen Stefani and Britney Spears to name a few. And because Madonna has achieved so much in the music world, she has a lot of ground covered. But so did the Beatles when it comes to rock and pop music. Yet there are so many bands, present day and recent past that sound like that. Nearly every rock band credits the Beatles with helping shape their sound in the first place, everyone knows their achievements and the impact they've had yet rock bands have room to breathe, be successful and not face criticism if they're attributed with helping to shape modern day rock music in one very small, minuscule way. Yet when it comes to women, it always comes down to the fact that Madonna already did that. Being the first doesn't mean that nobody should be allowed to expand on what's been done or push the envelope even further. People will always remember the first person in that aspect but there's really only so far that person can go >>>I agree and disagree...being the first doesn't mean being the best and people will always remember the person that did it the best and left the biggest impact whether they are first second or last.
It shows the impact of Madonna when every pop start gets compared to you but the new artist is supposed to be inspired by the best yet make it their own.
Gwen-Fashion icon. In a league of her own. her presence and ability to command a stage. Downside: She just used her solo stardom to brand LAMB for her clothing line. Could have done more but chose to go back to her band...I respect it but she is more of a debbie harry than Madonna in a band.
Britney-Immediate impact, her ability to keep all eyes on her and spark controversy as well as be very sexual in her pictures and dance moves. In a league of her own. Ability to be her own genre of music...always changing up her sound and setting trends but not going too far left where she loses her core audience. Memorable performances, tours, videos, and songs that reflect a sign of the times for where music was at during 20XX. Downside:  I'm a stan so I can't 
Rihanna-her edginess and ability to evolve with her looks each era and be sexually explicit yet likable and has a strong attitude without turning people off too much. Downside: Limited range but strong voice. No epic performances...like one or two memorable videos...not sure if her songs will have a timeless impact or will just be big songs for the moment.
Christina-the attitude of somebody with something to say. Downside: Has power in her voice and image but doesn't know how to use it. Reinvents herself too far left where many question who she is? Is provocative but not likable to pull it off like Madonna.
Lil Kim-At one point was considered the hip hop Madonna. To me, the one dimensional hip hop Madonna. She was overtly sexual and a hip hop sex symbol and her lyrics were controversial. Downside: However, she didn't brand herself properly to have longevity and is more of a parody than an icon.
Nicki Minaj-moreso the newer hip hop Madonna. Business savvy, creating a strong movement, ability to do various styles of music and entertain an audience. I guess some would talk about her fashion but I don't know sometimes. Downside: Longevity depends on whether nor not she makes the right moves...too early to determine.
Missy Elliott-creatively genius. Ahead of her time. Memorable videos. Well-regarded in the industry. Downside: Outside of creativity, what is there?
Pink-similar attitude and strong voice (not so much with vocals moreso about having something to really say). Downside: At one point, had the ability to evolve with different sounds (r&b and rock) but seems to be stuck to one genre now.
Jennifer Lopez-marketing techniques, fashion icon and business savvy. Downside: her music doesn't stand the test of time. No memorable performances, no memorable videos, and wasn't a tour artist so her fanbase didn't really connect-suffering musically now because of it.
Gaga-strong attitude, immediate impact and influence, somebody's fashion icon, visually creative. Downside: litmus test will come into play after she has peaked and what she does to maintain relevance and sustains a long term career. Could easily become a parody or keep things going? Could go either way. |
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Janhova's Witness
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Multi Pulse Award Winner
Joined: March 2009
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Pronouns: padam/padam
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Post by Janhova's Witness on Jan 15, 2012 14:43:16 GMT -5
Have you guys seen this blog? helpmothermonster.blogspot.com/Really? Well, I assume there might be similar blog from Madonna fans, but this is going a bit far, me thinks  "International Monsters Against Madonna Week?" Are you f*cking kidding me? IMAM Week.  Someone tell Michele Bachmann about this! |
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Post by ALEX GONE WILD on Jan 15, 2012 14:48:08 GMT -5
There are crazy fans of every artist, but that doesn't mean every "monster" thinks these things. They are probably all teenagers who still act like they are in middle school.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jan 15, 2012 15:00:07 GMT -5
So essentially you're saying that because she was a winner of circumstance, Not circumstance, her hard work, conviction and determination. No other female act had ever even tried to do all that she did, that's the whole point and that is why she is the template. No. It's circumstance. She was the first to achieve a lot of what she did. That's not to say she hasn't worked hard. I don't doubt that but that's also not to imply that those that came after her haven't worked hard either. I just don't think one should diminish the achievements and hard work of anyone just because of circumstance such as timing. And if a woman has tried to do what Madonna has already done, they are labeled a copycat. It's not anyone's fault that Madonna has achieved so much anyway but that doesn't mean others can't add to that in their own way. And they should be able to without people belittling it just because it's been done before. She's the template, for sure, but that shouldn't mean people like Gwen and Gaga can't do their thing too without the ongoing criticism. |
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MadonnaNation
Charting
ALL HAIL THE QUEEN
Joined: November 2011
Posts: 66
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Post by MadonnaNation on Jan 15, 2012 15:05:03 GMT -5
TOO ALL THOSE LITTLE MONSTERS.... THE QUEEN MOTHER MADONNA WILL SLAY YOUR YOUR DRAGON YOU CALL GA GAG...AND SHE WILL FINALLY BOW TO THE QUEEN AND TAKE HER SPOT IN THE CORNER LIKE A GOOD LITTLE DOG!
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jan 15, 2012 15:05:38 GMT -5
It's amazing that Madonna can still cause this much commotion thirty years on. That in and of itself says quite a lot. I really don't think it's all her this time around. The digital age and the advent of social networking has amplified any so-called controversy. Now *everyone* can hear about it literally within minutes of its alleged conception. Plus, I honestly believe people are obsessing over pettier and pettier stuff all the time. This I agree with. I think the media have made this a bigger deal than it has been by coming to their own conclusion. Of course, Madonna did give a vague answer knowing it could happen but she technically didn't show disrespect. This is Madonna's first real era with social media in the level it's in. Hard Candy came out before twitter so she wasn't able to take full advantage of it. This time, word of mouth will really help her and with the obsession over superstars and divas, everyone is going to know madonna's every move. I personally think she'll be bigger this year than she has been since the Music era. Maybe more in-your-face too which will help her. 2012 could be the year of Madonna in pop culture and media. |
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dbhmr
Diamond Member
>
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 23,536
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Post by dbhmr on Jan 15, 2012 15:06:54 GMT -5
I just don't think one should diminish the achievements and hard work of anyone just because of circumstance such as timing. Too funny. That's exactly what you're doing with Madonna. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jan 15, 2012 15:07:17 GMT -5
TOO ALL THOSE LITTLE MONSTERS.... THE QUEEN MOTHER MADONNA WILL SLAY YOUR YOUR DRAGON YOU CALL GA GAG...AND SHE WILL FINALLY BOW TO THE QUEEN AND TAKE HER SPOT IN THE CORNER LIKE A GOOD LITTLE DOG! I'm on my iPhone so I can't do anything but this is trolling and warning worthy. Expect a notice soon. And any posts like these from anyone regarding any diva will be warned or suspended. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jan 15, 2012 15:10:41 GMT -5
I just don't think one should diminish the achievements and hard work of anyone just because of circumstance such as timing. Too funny. That's exactly what you're doing with Madonna. Not at all. I have repeated myself that Madonna is essentially the standard and has done a LOT for pop music and music in general. And I do love her. She's one of my favourites. But I'm also emphasizing that people shouldn't diminish the achievements of people that came after her just because Madonna came first. |
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Mack
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Joined: June 2010
Posts: 7,381
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Post by Mack on Jan 15, 2012 15:12:51 GMT -5
TOO ALL THOSE LITTLE MONSTERS.... THE QUEEN MOTHER MADONNA WILL SLAY YOUR YOUR DRAGON YOU CALL GA GAG...AND SHE WILL FINALLY BOW TO THE QUEEN AND TAKE HER SPOT IN THE CORNER LIKE A GOOD LITTLE DOG! You're being facetious...right? Please tell me you're being facetious. |
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MadonnaNation
Charting
ALL HAIL THE QUEEN
Joined: November 2011
Posts: 66
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Post by MadonnaNation on Jan 15, 2012 15:18:08 GMT -5
"International Monsters Against Madonna Week?" Are you f*cking kidding me? IMAM Week. Someone tell Michele Bachmann about this! If you read the blog...there's more anti ga ga comments on it...monsters will soon learn theres a nation of madonna fans worldwide...and that they will fail..and fail reductively..lol |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jan 15, 2012 15:41:47 GMT -5
IMAM Week. Someone tell Michele Bachmann about this! If you read the blog...there's more anti ga ga comments on it...monsters will soon learn theres a nation of madonna fans worldwide...and that they will fail..and fail reductively..lol This board isn't that blog and those comments aren't welcome on here. |
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on Jan 15, 2012 15:57:52 GMT -5
So essentially you're saying that because she was a winner of circumstance, being the first woman to achieve a lot of things (and she did, though people like Marilyn, Deborah Harry and a few others have as well), no other woman should be able to win acclaim or have any sort of status that attributes them as achieving something because it's been done before? >>>Well, Madonna rose to fame before the Internet age...if ppl want to be inspired now, they have to understand what they are getting themselves into...I prefer if people just come up with something new but bringing it to mass media first does have its strong advantages over a 'reductive' rehash...sips tea.Nearly every major female pop star is compared to Madonna at the beginning of their career. It's like a stepping stone. Gwen Stefani and Britney Spears to name a few. And because Madonna has achieved so much in the music world, she has a lot of ground covered. But so did the Beatles when it comes to rock and pop music. Yet there are so many bands, present day and recent past that sound like that. Nearly every rock band credits the Beatles with helping shape their sound in the first place, everyone knows their achievements and the impact they've had yet rock bands have room to breathe, be successful and not face criticism if they're attributed with helping to shape modern day rock music in one very small, minuscule way. Yet when it comes to women, it always comes down to the fact that Madonna already did that. Being the first doesn't mean that nobody should be allowed to expand on what's been done or push the envelope even further. People will always remember the first person in that aspect but there's really only so far that person can go >>>I agree and disagree...being the first doesn't mean being the best and people will always remember the person that did it the best and left the biggest impact whether they are first second or last.
It shows the impact of Madonna when every pop start gets compared to you but the new artist is supposed to be inspired by the best yet make it their own.
Gwen-Fashion icon. In a league of her own. her presence and ability to command a stage. Downside: She just used her solo stardom to brand LAMB for her clothing line. Could have done more but chose to go back to her band...I respect it but she is more of a debbie harry than Madonna in a band.
Britney-Immediate impact, her ability to keep all eyes on her and spark controversy as well as be very sexual in her pictures and dance moves. In a league of her own. Ability to be her own genre of music...always changing up her sound and setting trends but not going too far left where she loses her core audience. Memorable performances, tours, videos, and songs that reflect a sign of the times for where music was at during 20XX. Downside: I'm a stan so I can't
Rihanna-her edginess and ability to evolve with her looks each era and be sexually explicit yet likable and has a strong attitude without turning people off too much. Downside: Limited range but strong voice. No epic performances...like one or two memorable videos...not sure if her songs will have a timeless impact or will just be big songs for the moment.
Christina-the attitude of somebody with something to say. Downside: Has power in her voice and image but doesn't know how to use it. Reinvents herself too far left where many question who she is? Is provocative but not likable to pull it off like Madonna.
Lil Kim-At one point was considered the hip hop Madonna. To me, the one dimensional hip hop Madonna. She was overtly sexual and a hip hop sex symbol and her lyrics were controversial. Downside: However, she didn't brand herself properly to have longevity and is more of a parody than an icon.
Nicki Minaj-moreso the newer hip hop Madonna. Business savvy, creating a strong movement, ability to do various styles of music and entertain an audience. I guess some would talk about her fashion but I don't know sometimes. Downside: Longevity depends on whether nor not she makes the right moves...too early to determine.
Missy Elliott-creatively genius. Ahead of her time. Memorable videos. Well-regarded in the industry. Downside: Outside of creativity, what is there?
Pink-similar attitude and strong voice (not so much with vocals moreso about having something to really say). Downside: At one point, had the ability to evolve with different sounds (r&b and rock) but seems to be stuck to one genre now.
Jennifer Lopez-marketing techniques, fashion icon and business savvy. Downside: her music doesn't stand the test of time. No memorable performances, no memorable videos, and wasn't a tour artist so her fanbase didn't really connect-suffering musically now because of it.
Gaga-strong attitude, immediate impact and influence, somebody's fashion icon, visually creative. Downside: litmus test will come into play after she has peaked and what she does to maintain relevance and sustains a long term career. Could easily become a parody or keep things going? Could go either way.I'm sorry but Jennifer Lopez, Nicki and Lil Kim is really stretching it. It's like saying every male artist regardless of genre, talent and creativity is a derivative of Elvis Presley. Jennifer Lopez is closer to a Paula Abdul than a Madonna. Nicki is a combination of Missy Elliot and Lil Kim. |
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PDC1987
Platinum Member
Joined: February 2011
Posts: 1,275
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Post by PDC1987 on Jan 15, 2012 16:04:48 GMT -5
TOO ALL THOSE LITTLE MONSTERS.... THE QUEEN MOTHER MADONNA WILL SLAY YOUR YOUR DRAGON YOU CALL GA GAG...AND SHE WILL FINALLY BOW TO THE QUEEN AND TAKE HER SPOT IN THE CORNER LIKE A GOOD LITTLE DOG!  |
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Post by ALEX GONE WILD on Jan 15, 2012 16:53:33 GMT -5
TOO ALL THOSE LITTLE MONSTERS.... THE QUEEN MOTHER MADONNA WILL SLAY YOUR YOUR DRAGON YOU CALL GA GAG...AND SHE WILL FINALLY BOW TO THE QUEEN AND TAKE HER SPOT IN THE CORNER LIKE A GOOD LITTLE DOG! Quit acting like a little child. You are what's wrong with every other crazy fan in the world. You give Madonna fans, and Madonna a bad name. Grow up, and quit acting like you're in elementary school. |
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libri
Charting
Joined: December 2009
Posts: 134 
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Post by libri on Jan 15, 2012 17:30:40 GMT -5
But if she is so tallented why must she blatently steal from others? Reductive no? For someone SO tallented. Blatantly stealing? Were you talking about Gaga or Madonna? If it's the latter then you're absolutely right ;). news.ninemsn.com.au/entertainment/73024/madonna-loses-plagiarism-case-in-belgiumwww.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/madonna-pays-settle-copyright-lawsuitlistverse.com/2010/08/23/top-10-popular-music-rip-offs/Do I need to go on? So much for Gaga's "blatantly stealing" while Madonna was "merely paying homage". LOL It was embarrassing. She'd have a lot more respect if she said she was flattered by the homage. Trying to pretend that she invented the very basic chord progression in Express Yourself makes her look amateurish as a musician; otherwise she'd know how rudimentary and commonplace it is. The best in their field are always generous in spirit towards others. She's making it hard to "stan" for her when instead of being confident & beautiful, she's being insecure & jealous. Nah, I don't think Madonna is insecure or jealous -- she's too succesful and thinks too well of herself for that. It's purely business IMO. If Gaga's still on top of the world, she'd probably have sung a different tune. She was very complimentary with Gaga back then -- just like she is now with Adele :). Considering Madge's rather, er, colorful history re: plagiarism, I was hoping, but not really expecting, that she'd take the high road. But that wouldn't exactly have resulted in so many headlines now, would it? I think the issue with something like "Born This Way" is the "denial"- it would be less of an issue if the influence was discussed/acknowledged for the track more than it was. Of course, Stefani in general has talked about how highly she thinks of Madonna and how much she loves her work and has been influenced by it. That's exactly what it is. She denied the similarities so fervently, and even went as far as calling these claims "retarded". If she had admitted that BTW is a simple extension of her Madonna fascination, all would be OK. But it seems like Adonis sidestepped this argument beautifully  Why shouldn't she deny it? No matter how hard some people try to pass BTW as a rip-off, it isn't, not in the least. As Gaga said, they share a similar chord progression, but that's the case too with many other songs. It is entirely possible that she wrote BTW with no thought whatsoever relating to Madonna. I personally don't hear EY when I listen BTW. And I'm not in denial, because I freely admit that I think of 'Vogue' whenever I hear 'Black Jesus' and hear 'I Wanna Dance with Somebody' when FoHL is on. Yep...30 years and still relevant way after her peak... many artists have a hard time lasting 3 years before peaking and losing relevance... ;)You mean like Britney? :) A high impact career that peaked within the first 3 years followed by a decline? That's not too bad, I'd say. Madonna-like career is an outlier, not the norm IMO. If these comments make Madonna a bitch then what did Gaga *LYING* about Madonna contacting her and giving her the Holy Madge Blessing for BTW make her? Could you please do me a favor and direct me to a proof that Gaga was indeed lying? Thx. |
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floridagrl
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The Holy Queen of Music!
Joined: February 2011
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Post by floridagrl on Jan 15, 2012 17:41:44 GMT -5
Could you please do me a favor and direct me to a proof that Gaga was indeed lying? Thx. Yup, and for the 3rd time, skip to 8:30:  |
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libri
Charting
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Posts: 134
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Post by libri on Jan 15, 2012 17:50:27 GMT -5
^^Thx. But what I meant was the proof that she indeed had not heard from M or her people.
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slw84
7x Platinum Member
I only tolerate legends
Joined: August 2008
Posts: 7,897
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Post by slw84 on Jan 15, 2012 17:54:44 GMT -5
I'm sorry but Jennifer Lopez, Nicki and Lil Kim is really stretching it. It's like saying every male artist regardless of genre, talent and creativity is a derivative of Elvis Presley. Jennifer Lopez is closer to a Paula Abdul than a Madonna. Nicki is a combination of Missy Elliot and Lil Kim. Yeah...with Lil kim...she claimed that she was the hip hop Madonna on Beyonce's naughty girl remix and her overtly sexual image and lyrics make some believe she is the hip hop Madonna. I can see the artificial connection; however, if you look at the downside that I pointed out you can see where I am coming from. When I was in high school and the early part of college 99-03 JLO was hot and ppl considered her the latin Madonna. She wasn't the best singer but she was controversial and used sex to sell...but again you will see my downsides in my opinion. Nicki: Yes, I see her as a mix between Lil kim's daring fashion, Missy's creativity, and Eve's sassiness and lovable attitude of course with her spin but I think she takes from the Queen as well. Again take from the best and make it your own...don't just sloppily copy and rip off. So I guess the leak of the new song hasn't happened. They are messing around with keeping this locked down. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jan 15, 2012 18:23:55 GMT -5
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jumpb4uthink
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Joined: June 2010
Posts: 7,382
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Post by jumpb4uthink on Jan 15, 2012 18:29:12 GMT -5
Maybe if Masterpiece wins the Globe in a few hours, the final soundtrack version will hit iTunes tomorrow.
Good luck M!!
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PDC1987
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Posts: 1,275
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Post by PDC1987 on Jan 15, 2012 18:30:57 GMT -5
Calling them a bunch of crazies is a bit condescending, no? |
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PDC1987
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Posts: 1,275
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Post by PDC1987 on Jan 15, 2012 18:41:57 GMT -5
1.) There is literally no similarity between "Frozen" and the Belgian song, she only lost the case because it was a Belgian court trying to act all big and bad and teach some snotty American a lesson. The decision will go down in legal history as being utterly offensive, akin to the fiasco that was the inspiration for Erin Brockovich. Total BS. The two songs feature the same instrument and a couple of the same notes are played but in different melodies or what have you, but guess what? Each instrument can only play so many notes, and all have been recorded already. 2.) Madonna loved and respected the photographer, wanted to use some of the imagery, and knew it would be recognized. She's not naive. Excuse her for not tracking down all of his living relatives and handing out checks. Surely if his son cared about his fathers works so much he would have been flattered and sent her a nice thank you, if anything at all. 3.) You're aware that PE were full of shit as it was a sample when THEY used it, right? |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jan 15, 2012 18:59:53 GMT -5
Calling them a bunch of crazies is a bit condescending, no? Yeah. And I wouldn't consider some of them any less judging by their posts. Some of them are almost as nuts as the GaGa crazy-fan linked earlier with that stupid blog. |
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PDC1987
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Posts: 1,275
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Post by PDC1987 on Jan 15, 2012 19:06:40 GMT -5
Calling them a bunch of crazies is a bit condescending, no? Yeah. And I wouldn't consider some of them any less judging by their posts. Some of them are almost as nuts as the GaGa crazy-fan linked earlier with that stupid blog. There's nutters everywhere. |
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PDC1987
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Posts: 1,275
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Post by PDC1987 on Jan 15, 2012 19:44:47 GMT -5
Umm... yeah. She looks like a stuffed pig at the Golden Globes.
Such a letdown.
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Verisimilitude
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'90s Zealot
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Post by Verisimilitude on Jan 15, 2012 19:48:45 GMT -5
Umm... yeah. She looks like a stuffed pig at the Golden Globes. Such a letdown. I liked the dress. At least it wasn't an eyesore like Lea Michele's similar looking dress! |
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PDC1987
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Post by PDC1987 on Jan 15, 2012 19:50:01 GMT -5
Umm... yeah. She looks like a stuffed pig at the Golden Globes. Such a letdown. I liked the dress. At least it wasn't an eyesore like Lea Michele's similar looking dress! The dress is nice, but she's moving around in it like she's as uncomfortable as possible. |
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MadonnaNation
Charting
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Joined: November 2011
Posts: 66
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Post by MadonnaNation on Jan 15, 2012 19:57:08 GMT -5
Love the dress and the look!!!...looking hotter then ever..shes ready for this era.
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I'm a stan so I can't 
