remix
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Post by remix on Nov 23, 2011 7:02:38 GMT -5
Loud sold what? almost 6 million copies worldwide.......First week numbers are irrelevant.
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vantiboy3
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Post by vantiboy3 on Nov 23, 2011 7:05:27 GMT -5
BILLY SHEARS.
1. Bringing in sales in the long run while the discussion is opening sales kinda deviates from the topic. Opening sales are not total sales.
2. Do we know WHY established act's openings are getting smaller??? YES. They do not have the same single success or radio support with each album. that is evident. But they still open HUGE, with little or no backing from Itunes or radio.
Rihanna though, on the other hand, gets bigger and bigger first week singles, and still she hovers around the 200k mark opening week.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Nov 23, 2011 7:09:47 GMT -5
Opening sales are an indication how well the album is doing compared to its predecessor. Judged by these numbers TTT will struggle to reach Loud's numbers.
But if we're talking about only first week sales in the US, then they're obviously irrelevant compared to the total WORLDWIDE sales of her previous album.
UK has always embraced her the most though, 1.5 million of Loud's 6 million comes from there, same with GGGB.
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leoapp
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Post by leoapp on Nov 23, 2011 7:20:20 GMT -5
Probably her true fanbase is still minimal, that's why her first week sales are always not huge. But she has many casual fans.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2011 7:25:40 GMT -5
1. Bringing in sales in the long run while the discussion is opening sales kinda deviates from the topic. Opening sales are not total sales. I completely disagree. Yes, there's a discussion to be had on why she continues to open with 200k, but I think it's very much linked with her overall sales. If she was opening with 200k and selling 400k total there would be no discussion to be had, she'd just be someone who doesn't sell albums. But her sales continue to follow a pattern where she opens unspectacularly but ends up with impressive (for 2010/11) sales. It's much less often discussed, but it's the same story with her singles. "We Found Love" barely opened above 100k, but is now selling 230k a week, every week. If she was opening with 100k and tumbling down the chart it would not be a discussion point. It's the same with her worldwide sales. We have to make peace with the fact that her sales are what now counts for impressive in the US, but in the UK her sales are at a level that has always been considered impressive. Loud was a genuine blockbuster. It's within these parametres that her sales in the US are an interesting discussion, it's not just something people are throwing out there to distract from what you believe are substandard numbers. 2. Do we know WHY established act's openings are getting smaller??? YES. They do not have the same single success or radio support with each album. that is evident. But they still open HUGE, with little or no backing from Itunes or radio. Rihanna though, on the other hand, gets bigger and bigger first week singles, and still she hovers around the 200k mark opening week. I'll explain my point a different way. Artist A sells 400k with album X in 2007, 300k with album Y in 2009 and 200k with album Z in 2011. Total album sales are 400M in 2007, 300M in 2009 and 200M in 2011 (note: these numbers are made up to help make my point, I don't know actual sales but they are certainly falling). Artist B sells 200k with album U in 2007, 200k with album V in 2009 and 200k with album W in 2011. With album sales falling the way they are, artist B is actually doing rather well for themselves. Rihanna is like artist B. Loud's sales may not have been impressive ten years ago, but now they certainly are. No she may not be increasing album to album, but she's holding her own and the fact that she's a phenomenon but is selling this many copies is, in my opinion, more of an indictment of the state of record sales than some inherent flaw she has.
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jink
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Post by jink on Nov 23, 2011 7:52:34 GMT -5
Yeah, every album that Rihanna releases opens in the same ball park (from GGGB to TTT) and every opening is met with the same shock and awe reactions and claims that she can't sell albums. Then she consistently goes on to push a respectable amount each time aided with an assload of hits. By the dramatic responses you'd think she was in Flo Rida/Taio Cruz/Jason DeRulo territory. Those are the truest examples of "singles artists" - certainly not someone who consistently hits Platinum domestically and is among the biggest selling artists in the world of any genre. We'll be repeating this same dramatic cycle with her next release. Yawn. Exactly. I'm not sure if people just have awful memories or something else. I remember the doom and gloom and "SINGLES ARTIST!!!" when Loud's projections came in. It ended up scanning 6 million copies in a year, outdoing any album released around or after it except 21. Rihanna will be fine, people. The US will perhaps never truly warm to her in the way other countries have, but even then she's had four platinum albums, with one of them nearly triple platinum.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2011 7:54:40 GMT -5
I think to suggest that the US will 'never truly warm' to Rihanna is completely ridiculous.
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jink
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Post by jink on Nov 23, 2011 8:02:46 GMT -5
I think to suggest that the US will 'never truly warm' to Rihanna is completely ridiculous. I meant in the way that, for example, the UK has warmed to her, or in the way that Beyonce and Britney were huge album sellers and tour ticket sellers in their prime. I agree that she's doing well overall in the US (which was part of the point of my post), but I don't really see why that's ridiculous *shrugs* Still, I guess there's always a chance of her gaining a larger fanbase over time.
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Rodze
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Post by Rodze on Nov 23, 2011 8:07:54 GMT -5
Something that people haven't mentioned much is that this is Rihanna's 3rd yearly album. There just isn't time to accumulate demand for her new music enough to generate a big first week, even with smash lead singles.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2011 8:09:49 GMT -5
I meant in the way that, for example, the UK has warmed to her, or in the way that Beyonce and Britney were huge album sellers and tour ticket sellers in their prime. I agree that she's doing well overall in the US (which was the entire point of my post), but I don't really see why that's ridiculous *shrugs* Still, I guess there's always a chance of her gaining a larger fanbase over time. She is a phenomenon in the UK, but even in the US she's still one of the most successful pop stars of the moment. To suggest that being anything less than the most successful artists means an entire country hasn't and never will warm to you is just silly.
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lugus15
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Post by lugus15 on Nov 23, 2011 8:11:37 GMT -5
My guess is that with enough successful singles (plus touring) she is going to make between Rated R & Loud when all is said and done.
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jink
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Post by jink on Nov 23, 2011 8:13:46 GMT -5
I meant in the way that, for example, the UK has warmed to her, or in the way that Beyonce and Britney were huge album sellers and tour ticket sellers in their prime. I agree that she's doing well overall in the US (which was the entire point of my post), but I don't really see why that's ridiculous *shrugs* Still, I guess there's always a chance of her gaining a larger fanbase over time. She is a phenomenon in the UK, but even in the US she's still one of the most successful pop stars of the moment. To suggest that being anything less than the most successful artists means an entire country hasn't and never will warm to you is just silly. You're right. Like I said, 11 #1s and four platinum albums in four years is no small feat. Let me change that to "the US, for whatever reason, hasn't warmed to her in the way other countries, such as the UK, have", in relation to the topic of why her first week projections are "surprisingly low". Are we in agreement now?
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newpower
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Post by newpower on Nov 23, 2011 8:38:45 GMT -5
I remember buying Loud at 99cents or 1.99 in Amazon during the first week. This time, everyone is paying full price for TTT. So I think 200k is pretty impressive for TTT.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Nov 23, 2011 9:16:00 GMT -5
^ If it was that price, it likely was not for the full week. I thought the 99-cents thing for a big release was unprecedented until this year? I know Amazon had done $3.99 deals (maybe $1.99?) for big albums before that.
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asg4
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Post by asg4 on Nov 23, 2011 9:17:03 GMT -5
the record industry is very fickle if she stops generating hits ( and that will happen sooner then later) her success will be gone in a hurry. And her next album might not even open with half of what she is doing right now
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2011 9:23:18 GMT -5
I find it funny that people gave Kelly Clarkson such a hard time for her "low" debut at 170,000 and blamed it all on MKIA. Looks like Rihanna isn't doing much better with a massive hit. Just proves that she is a singles artist where as Kelly is seemingly more of an album artist. She might not be doing much better this week, but by March there'll be a 600k difference between the two albums sales.
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TGIF
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Post by TGIF on Nov 23, 2011 10:04:52 GMT -5
1. Bringing in sales in the long run while the discussion is opening sales kinda deviates from the topic. Opening sales are not total sales. I completely disagree. Yes, there's a discussion to be had on why she continues to open with 200k, but I think it's very much linked with her overall sales. If she was opening with 200k and selling 400k total there would be no discussion to be had, she'd just be someone who doesn't sell albums. But her sales continue to follow a pattern where she opens unspectacularly but ends up with impressive (for 2010/11) sales. It's much less often discussed, but it's the same story with her singles. "We Found Love" barely opened above 100k, but is now selling 230k a week, every week. If she was opening with 100k and tumbling down the chart it would not be a discussion point. It's the same with her worldwide sales. We have to make peace with the fact that her sales are what now counts for impressive in the US, but in the UK her sales are at a level that has always been considered impressive. Loud was a genuine blockbuster. It's within these parametres that her sales in the US are an interesting discussion, it's not just something people are throwing out there to distract from what you believe are substandard numbers. 2. Do we know WHY established act's openings are getting smaller??? YES. They do not have the same single success or radio support with each album. that is evident. But they still open HUGE, with little or no backing from Itunes or radio. Rihanna though, on the other hand, gets bigger and bigger first week singles, and still she hovers around the 200k mark opening week. I'll explain my point a different way. Artist A sells 400k with album X in 2007, 300k with album Y in 2009 and 200k with album Z in 2011. Total album sales are 400M in 2007, 300M in 2009 and 200M in 2011 (note: these numbers are made up to help make my point, I don't know actual sales but they are certainly falling). Artist B sells 200k with album U in 2007, 200k with album V in 2009 and 200k with album W in 2011. With album sales falling the way they are, artist B is actually doing rather well for themselves. Rihanna is like artist B. Loud's sales may not have been impressive ten years ago, but now they certainly are. No she may not be increasing album to album, but she's holding her own and the fact that she's a phenomenon but is selling this many copies is, in my opinion, more of an indictment of the state of record sales than some inherent flaw she has. omg you're perfection in pulse member form with this post! thank you for bringing up some important topics that need to be discussed ... like the fact that selling 1.5+ million in the US is impressive nowadays! some people are living in a fantasy world where they expect everyone to be going triple or quadruple platinum when thats not at all the industry we're in right now Rihanna isnt the only one who gets critcized for it, Katy does too & people act like her album sales for TD are disappointing when they're not at all. having 5 #1 singles doesnt mean she's suppose to be selling triple platinum either, that just doesnt happen unless someone is an anomaly (like lady gaga in 2009/10 & adele this year!). people have such a warped & unrealistic expectations of what albums should be selling that they havent woke up & realized that its 2011 and going platinum is impressive much less closing in on double platinum. so Loud was not only the biggest era WW next to Adele's but in the US, it was very impressive as well & one of the biggest here
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TGIF
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Post by TGIF on Nov 23, 2011 10:08:31 GMT -5
Something that people haven't mentioned much is that this is Rihanna's 3rd yearly album. There just isn't time to accumulate demand for her new music enough to generate a big first week, even with smash lead singles. i was on popjustice yesterday & someone said that too & that they were scared of getting her album right away b/c they know she always rereleases so they were gonna wait a couple months just to make sure ... i think spending money on an album every single year might be too much for fans so thats why instead of having a big rush the first week, she always eventually gets her big sales along the course of the album run
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Nov 23, 2011 10:15:40 GMT -5
That's a good point.. People haven't had any time for anticipation. It's more like "oh another Rihanna album. Might check it out"
Which means it'll sell steadily but doesn't generate big opening weeks. A new Rihanna album is not an event of any kind.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Nov 23, 2011 10:17:47 GMT -5
^Indeed. If she had a solid year or more away- without a peep on a single track- perhaps she would see bigger first weeks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2011 10:21:47 GMT -5
i think spending money on an album every single year might be too much for fans so thats why instead of having a big rush the first week, she always eventually gets her big sales along the course of the album run I think this is a really good point that is often missed. It's not even that she exactly oversaturates the market or whatever by rushing out albums, it's something slightly different. People know she's going to release an album with a lot of singles, so they wait until she's released two or three to make sure they like them before investing in the whole thing. It's almost like she's being punished for releasing consistently good singles. This can be applied to a lot of pop acts.
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slw84
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Post by slw84 on Nov 23, 2011 12:10:48 GMT -5
^Indeed. If she had a solid year or more away- without a peep on a single track- perhaps she would see bigger first weeks. Not only just that but bigger first week sales doesn't cancel out steady consistent weeks either. I think that after this album she will actually take a well-deserved break.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Nov 23, 2011 12:14:20 GMT -5
I saw an interview on Fuse from, I guess last year, where RiR said the plan was to take time off before Loud, but that after a few weeks, she got cabin fever or something and had to hit the studio. That, or the label was hitting her up constantly to get back there.
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slw84
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Post by slw84 on Nov 23, 2011 12:17:29 GMT -5
I saw an interview on Fuse from, I guess last year, where RiR said the plan was to take time off before Loud, but that after a few weeks, she got cabin fever or something and had to hit the studio. That, or the label was hitting her up constantly to get back there. I'd bet it was the label's push but oh well. I like the album. If she score 3/4 #1 hits she can take that break and rev up for a comeback in late 2014.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2011 12:20:03 GMT -5
Why, if the longest she's ever taken off between albums is two and a half years, she's famed for putting stuff out frequently and last year she got cabin fever after two WEEKS off, would she take three years between Talk That Talk and her next release?
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Rurry
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Post by Rurry on Nov 23, 2011 12:25:30 GMT -5
i think spending money on an album every single year might be too much for fans so thats why instead of having a big rush the first week, she always eventually gets her big sales along the course of the album run I think this is a really good point that is often missed. It's not even that she exactly oversaturates the market or whatever by rushing out albums, it's something slightly different. People know she's going to release an album with a lot of singles, so they wait until she's released two or three to make sure they like them before investing in the whole thing. It's almost like she's being punished for releasing consistently good singles. This can be applied to a lot of pop acts. That's an interesting point that I've never thought about with Rihanna actually, and it makes sense...maybe since she releases albums so often there's just simply less first week 'hype' than there is with most artists.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2011 12:26:51 GMT -5
Why, if the longest she's ever taken off between albums is two and a half years, she's famed for putting stuff out frequently and last year she got cabin fever after two WEEKS off, would she take three years between Talk That Talk and her next release? Her manager said a couple weeks ago that next year she would be more focused on movies promoting that "Battlefield" jawn and then start shooting another major production. I think 2012 was always going to be a sort of 'break' from music for her so that's probably why they tried to rush a new album out this year even though there was no need to since "Loud" was still going strong, and she may return under Roc Nation since I think this is her last album with IDJ. She'll probably still shoot her videos and stuff but I doubt there will be a tour to support this album like the others. I think this is a really good point that is often missed. It's not even that she exactly oversaturates the market or whatever by rushing out albums, it's something slightly different. People know she's going to release an album with a lot of singles, so they wait until she's released two or three to make sure they like them before investing in the whole thing. It's almost like she's being punished for releasing consistently good singles. This can be applied to a lot of pop acts. That's an interesting point that I've never thought about with Rihanna actually, and it makes sense...maybe since she releases albums so often there's just simply less first week 'hype' than there is with most artists. Yeah. Like spoilt said, it's not really an event to go out and get a Rihanna album. They're constantly on the market or coming so folks just pick it up whenever. It is interesting however, that this applies just to the US though. There's a racial debate that could be said about her and Kelly Rowland and dance music and their popularity overseas but I'll not.
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Post by Push The Button on Nov 23, 2011 12:37:30 GMT -5
Why, if the longest she's ever taken off between albums is two and a half years, she's famed for putting stuff out frequently and last year she got cabin fever after two WEEKS off, would she take three years between Talk That Talk and her next release? Two and a half years? She had a big re-release in 2008. 2005 - Music of the Sun 2006 - A Girl Like Me 2007 - Good Girl Gone Bad 2008 - Good Girl Gone Bad: Reloaded 2009 - Rated R 2010 - Loud 2011 - Talk That Talk Not to mention her incessant need to be featured on any song that is requested of her. Considering how she's flooded the market, I think these numbers are respectable.
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Agent Yoncé
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Post by Agent Yoncé on Nov 23, 2011 13:14:57 GMT -5
We can't really expect huge albums sales from Rihanna. She doesn't build up enough anticipation inbetween albums & her singles doesn't push a lot of units, but we gotta give her some credit. She has managed to hit platinum w/her last 3 albums. It's pretty mediocre-ish, but not too many people can say the same (w/or w/o hits).
I honestly feel her label main objectives for her are: - to produce Top 10s - get #1s - to get platinum albums.
Everything else is just icing on the cake.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2011 14:32:28 GMT -5
JINGLE BUBLE ALL THE WAY Crooners Appears the Big Winner for Black Friday, as Nickelback, Rihanna, Daughtry, Mary J. Blige, BTR, Taylor Swift Debut
November 23, 2011
This holiday season, it appears Michael Buble’s Christmas album is the gift that keeps on giving. Based on one-day sales, the Reprise recording artist’s year-end collection looks to be the big winner coming out of Black Friday, with an estimate of 250-275k, which would be enough to turn back all the Mega Monday debuts.
Still, given the big shopping weekend, please expect a greater than usual margin of error from our crack (head) retail department’s flow of misinformation.
Roadrunner’s Nickelback win the battle of the newcomers, with its seventh studio album, Here and Now, which is looking to be in the 210-225k range. Its last album, 2008’s Dark Horse, debuted with 327k on its way to a 3.1 million total.
Last week’s chartopper, YM/CM/Universal Republic’s Drake, drops to #3 with an estimated 190-215k, bringing its two-week total to around 860k.
Def Jam/IDJ pop diva Rihanna’s Talk That Talk should enter at #4, with between 180-200k, which compares favorably to the 207k she debuted with for last year’s Loud.
Geffen’s Mary J. Blige, with My Life II… The Journey Continues (Act 1), the sequel to her 1994 album, should debut at #5 with 130-140k.
XL/Columbia perennial Adele’s 21 just continues its 100k+ per week pace with another 120-130k, which will take her over the 4.6 million mark. She’ll easily top 5 million before the end of the year.
Rounding out the Top 10, Nickelodeon/Columbia teenpop act Big Time Rush will enter with 90-100k, followed by Island/IDJ’s Justin Bieber sporting the same amount and the debut of Big Machine’s Taylor Swift live CD/DVD, Speak Now World Tour Live, with 85-95k
Other New Releases hitting the Top 50 include Epic’s Michael Jackson Immortal Cirque de Soleil soundtrack (50-60k), Capitol/EMI’s Bob Seger Ultimate Hits compilation (45-55k), Ghet-O-Vision/Shady/Interscope’s Yelawolf (40-50k), Columbia’s America’s Got Talent winner Landau Eugene Murphy, Jr. (30-40k), Wind-up Idol rocker James Durbin’s debut (20-25k) and Universal Republic’s Rolling Stones Some Girls reissue (20-25k).
Did you ever think you’d see the day James Durbin would match the Stones in album sales? Neither did we.
Albums sales were up 9% vs. last week, down 13% vs. same week last year and up 3% year to date.
Track Sales were down 4% vs. last week, down 3% vs. same week last year and up 10% year to date.
TEA (Track Equivalent Album) sales were up 6% vs. last week, down 11% vs. same week last year and up 5% year to date.
You may now return to your tryptophan-induced coma
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