Guardian: "Musicians, stop collaborating please!"

[Enigma.]

Musicians, stop collaborating please!

Jay-Z and Alicia Keys? Inspired. JLS and Dev? Pitbull and whoever? Just soulless, corporate collaborations that are ruining the charts

In one small way, Madonna's current single, Give Me All Your Luvin', marks the end of an era. It's the last time for the foreseeable future that Nicki Minaj, who guest-raps on it, intends to collaborate with another artist. "I'm done with the collabs," she said last year. "No more collabs for the next two years."

If anyone is entitled to call it a day on the "collab" front, it's Minaj – Give Me All Your Luvin' is the 40th she's appeared on (including 11 in 2011 alone). If only her attitude were shared by other serial collaborators. Right now, on a pop record near you, you'll almost certainly encounter one of the following doing a little turn on someone else's song: Pitbull, Rihanna, Chris Brown, Akon, Lil' Wayne, Bruno Mars – and the list goes on. In the last couple of years, there's hardly been a successful chart act who hasn't turned up as a "featured artist" on another successful chart act's single.

It goes like this: Big Star A – Madonna, let's say – is recording a single. It's destined to sell well because Madonna is still a huge brand. But how many more people would listen to and download it if she invited Big Stars B and C – Minaj and MIA – to add guest verses? Everyone benefits: Madonna gets the kudos of working with a couple of hip names, while Minaj and MIA get the kudos of working with Madonna, and all three reach not just their own fanbases but those of the other two as well.

Give Me All Your Luvin' debuted in America at No 13 – Madonna's highest position since 2008. Her appearance at the Super Bowl, where MIA flashed her middle finger at the camera, helped, of course: a case of a collaboration that will go down as one of pop's more memorable.

More often, though, A-list hookups aren't landmark events. How can they be, when they've become mandatory for the generic pop/urban acts who've dominated the charts for the past half-decade? There are half a dozen in every week – and for every one that shows an actual affinity between the acts – such as Drake and Rihanna's Take Care – there are a dozen Pitbull/Chris Browns, who exhibit all the passion of two CEOs signing a corporate merger. Even Brit acts such as JLS are traipsing on to the bandwagon; their Brit-nominated outing with American singer Dev is a fine example of two acts being put together for the greater good of their record labels.

Obviously, some collaborations have been inspired matches: Jay-Z and Alicia Keys brought different but equally stirring things to Empire State of Mind; ditto Katy Perry and Snoop Dogg on California Gurls. Christina Aguilera's contribution to Maroon 5's Moves Like Jagger blasted an already euphoric song into the ionosphere, and Lady Gaga and Beyoncé made Telephone an irresistible détente between two alpha females.

More often, though, collaborations are soulless things whose ubiquity is changing the tenor of the chart. The more successful they are, the more get released, and if you've been thinking pop has been a depressing place for the last few years because it's stuffed with schlock-merchants such as Bruno Mars, it's even worse when it's Lil' Wayne featuring Bruno Mars.

www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2012/feb/22/musicians-stop-collaborating-please?newsfeed=true

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An interesting article! Personally, I don't mind collaborations but it makes some acts seem bigger stars than they actually are (Lil Wayne, T-Pain)

[spooky21]

Give Me All Your Luvin' debuted in America at No 13 – Madonna's highest position since 2008. Her appearance at the Super Bowl, where MIA flashed her middle finger at the camera, helped, of course: a case of a collaboration that will go down as one of pop's more memorable.

What is this guy smoking?

[Enigma.]

The song might not be that memorable but the collaboration Madge/Nicki/MIA is.

Which is also the point here, no matter what the songs is like, collaborations make headlines.

[spooky21]

Memorable how? It encapulates the same soulless, corporate collaboration that his article is writing against.

Neither artist is organic to the track or elevates it to a higher level. In fact, their additions are arguably the weakest parts of the song.

[jebsib]

They're figuring this out NOW?!? A little late on the uptake, Guardian! A few weeks ago I calculated that there hasn't been a top 10 week on the Hot 100 WITHOUT a featured collabo in over 11 years!

[Deleted]

Yeah, the only thing that really makes GMAYL a more 'memorable' collaboration is the Superbowl performance and the to-do over MIA flipping the finger. But the song itself, not so much. Nicki and MIA's parts put together don't even equal a full bar. Their inclusion bordered on being pointless since they only got to say three lines and wave pom-poms with the extras.

I found this article's complaint to be kind of weak and just an excuse to whine about some successful artists he doesn't like. He bemoans the fact that A-list collaborations are no longer an "event", but then the only examples he offers as the reason why are a vague general complaint about Pitbull's entire existence (who is really just the B/C-list rent-a-rapper du jour) and a song with JLS and Dev (a B-list band from what I can tell with an act who has yet to have a hit of her own anywhere). How would that take away from any true A-lister's shine? The whole point of being on the A-list is that you're big enough that what other people do simply does not affect you. Whining because lessors are just trying to make a dollar out of combining their fifteen cents for a hopeful top ten hit is petty. And who is to say the A-list collabs weren't at first "soulless corporate collaborations" arranged by label heads? I mean really, in what universe would one expect Katy and Snoop to already be friends before doing CG, and who really thinks they still have each other on speed dial? Maroon 5 and Christina's teamup was pretty much only arranged to capitalize on them being judges on the same show, and M5's album was repressed with the song on it to boost sales. If that wasn't a corporate move I don't know what is. Doesn't inherently make it a bad thing.

It's clear that collaborations in and of themselves is not the author's problem; the seemingly increasing vapidness that is today's music is his gripe, and he's just looking for something to pin the blame on. There is a difference between the drive-thru type hits and the true signature smashes (using Pitbull as an example, International Love will ultimately pale in comparison to GME). But that could exist on solo tracks, it's not something to blame squarely on artists working together.

The only 'real' complaint I could see is that it kind of screws up chart stats (like artist with most top tens, etc.) but usually it's noted how many songs under an artist's accomplishments are as features, so as long as that is noted even this is not a real problem.

[badrobot]

Their examples of "inspired" collaborations are pretty weak. California Gurls and Moves Like Jagger would both have been just as successful without their features. Telephone, Take Care, and Empire State of Mind are good examples though.

I will give Rihanna credit -- her features have almost always seemed to be key to the song as opposed to just tacked-on.

[gracelessheart]

Feb 23, 2012 9:55:57 GMT -5 badrobot said:

I will give Rihanna credit -- her features have almost always seemed to be key to the song as opposed to just tacked-on.

I think it's because she's typically singing the hook.

[asg4]

Akon did 300 callobs last yr(or maybe his entire career not entirely sure) only one reached the hot 100 last yr

[Agent Yoncé]

The shade in this article. LOL.

[Minor Scratch]

I agree somewhat with this article. I think the fact that Adele has no collaborations on any of her work is what sets her apart from the rest of the pack and why she is selling as much as she is in today's musical landscape.

An individual contribution with just the focus on Adele's voice and Adele's matters is going a long way for her. When you promote a collaboration, the focus is on several people and not usually the headlined artist, creating an instant disconnection and detachment between the main artist and their audience. How do they expect to gain enough respect from a music listener to purchase their record and become a fan if the focus for the record is all over the place and not all entrenched on the main artist?

[Devil Marlena Nylund]

Adele is hardly the only singer that doesn't do collaborations.

I think collaborations are very useful when it comes to actual collabs that involve writing and just working with someone else. It helps to give insight and added perspective. If Adele never collaborated (and she does collaborate, just not vocally or by doing duets, but lyrically she collaborated with someone for every song she wrote on her album), she'd get pretty boring pretty quickly.

[gracelessheart]

Feb 24, 2012 1:48:15 GMT -5 Devil Marlena Nylund said:

Adele is hardly the only singer that doesn't do collaborations.

I think collaborations are very useful when it comes to actual collabs that involve writing and just working with someone else. It helps to give insight and added perspective. If Adele never collaborated (and she does collaborate, just not vocally or by doing duets, but lyrically she collaborated with someone for every song she wrote on her album), she'd get pretty boring pretty quickly.

Agreed that people co-writing isn't a bad thing. Most people do write with other people, particularly in the pop world. But I think the real issue here is artists getting tacked on to songs they don't really add much to, simply for name recognition and the chance that it will appeal to a broader audience to bump sales/airplay.

Also, didn't Adele write about half of her debut solo? Obviously 19 didn't have the same success as 21, but it still sold well during its initial run and its now basically doubled original sales overall.

[badrobot]

I'd say the following:

-Artistic collaboration (creative back-and-forth, co-writing, co-producing, etc.) can be a wonderful thing
-Commercial collaboration (let's add a hot rapper or pick whoever's popular to sing the hook) can be a cynical ploy

Either way can result in good or bad music -- but I think the first one is much more likely to yield something great.

[Kishi KCM]

I prefer the artistic collaborations. Tired of the latter, too many of them at once...it doesn't have the same effect/impact, especially with hip-hop/R&B.

[Chelsea Press 2]

Really?! Is the author of the 'article' just discovering that collaborations are happening? ??? Collaborations are hardly anything new. I do agree that certain people such as Pitbull and Nicki Minaj are featured much more frequently than others. Of late, Pitbull hasn't been doing as much. Nicki is probably being asked to so much since she is really hot right now (gotta strike while the iron's hot right?). I feel that this 'article' is just a thinly veiled attempt at throwing shade at various artists in the guise of actually being hard-hitting.

[KeepDeanWeird]

Only 3 of Madonna's 70+ singles have been collabs and they all have been in last four years. (MATM was Britney's single, so I'm not including that.) The three includes Revolver. That's pretty impressive.

EDIT: I'm calling BS on Minaj. The lead urban single "Roman Reloaded" FEATURING, you guessed it Lil' Wayne....

[Chelsea Press 2]

Feb 24, 2012 19:48:32 GMT -5 KeepDeanWeird said:

Only 3 of Madonna's 70+ singles have been collabs and they all have been in last four years. (MATM was Britney's single, so I'm not including that.) The three includes Revolver. That's pretty impressive.

Exactly. And even with album tracks, there haven't been that many. On her own albums Hard Candy had the most she has done so far. Prior to that, there had just been a couple.

[asg4]

Feb 24, 2012 21:14:58 GMT -5 Chelsea Press 2 said:

Feb 24, 2012 19:48:32 GMT -5 KeepDeanWeird said:

Only 3 of Madonna's 70+ singles have been collabs and they all have been in last four years. (MATM was Britney's single, so I'm not including that.) The three includes Revolver. That's pretty impressive.

Exactly. And even with album tracks, there haven't been that many. On her own albums Hard Candy had the most she has done so far. Prior to that, there had just been a couple.

The first madonna collab was in the 80s with prince on like a prayer on a song called "love song"

[badrobot]

^This is true, and kudos to Madonna, but the collaboration thing wasn't that big until the mid-90s really.

And Madonna's longest running #1 (Take a Bow) would probably today be credited as "Madonna featuring Babyface." Also it is definitely a new thing for producers to be getting artist credit (like "Rihanna featuring Calvin Harris" or "Pink featuring William Orbit") which is changing things up a bit too.

[KeepDeanWeird]

As to my message above - well, guess who is featured on Ester Dean's lead single? That's right Nicki "no more collabs for two years" Minaj. So that's two just in a week. LOL. Don't get me wrong, I like Minaj, but seriously what was she talking about???

[Lozzy]

Feb 26, 2012 1:54:29 GMT -5 KeepDeanWeird said:

As to my message above - well, guess who is featured on Ester Dean's lead single? That's right Nicki "no more collabs for two years" Minaj. So that's two just in a week. LOL. Don't get me wrong, I like Minaj, but seriously what was she talking about???

Maybe that song you speak of was recorded before she said whatever she said, and what she meant was that she would not record any new collaborations, not release already recorded collaborations?

[spooky21]

Feb 26, 2012 1:54:29 GMT -5 KeepDeanWeird said:

As to my message above - well, guess who is featured on Ester Dean's lead single? That's right Nicki "no more collabs for two years" Minaj. So that's two just in a week. LOL. Don't get me wrong, I like Minaj, but seriously what was she talking about???

I'm assuming there is a whole bunch of collabos that she's done that is just sitting there ready for release. She's probably just talking about new ones. We'll probably be hearing a lot of pre-recording stuff throughout her freeze period.

I don't believe her though. I really can't see her refusing to jump on a track that is guaranteed to be a super smash.

[imbondz]

what happened to duets? I think the Kelly Clarkson / Aldean song is a duet, not a collabo. Rhianna / Eminem Lie song is more of a duet too. Jay Z / Alicia Keys - duet.

duet - not as soulless
collaboration - soulless

[Enigma.]

That is true, I miss proper duets as well, and male-female singing in general (one of the reasons I respect Lady Antebellum)

[felipe]

Give me a soulless collaboration over a soulless solo track any day.

[Adonis the DemiGod!]

Feb 23, 2012 3:15:13 GMT -5 Enigma. said:

Musicians, stop collaborating please!

Jay-Z and Alicia Keys? Inspired. JLS and Dev? Pitbull and whoever? Just soulless, corporate collaborations that are ruining the charts

In one small way, Madonna's current single, Give Me All Your Luvin', marks the end of an era. It's the last time for the foreseeable future that Nicki Minaj, who guest-raps on it, intends to collaborate with another artist. "I'm done with the collabs," she said last year. "No more collabs for the next two years."

If anyone is entitled to call it a day on the "collab" front, it's Minaj – Give Me All Your Luvin' is the 40th she's appeared on (including 11 in 2011 alone). If only her attitude were shared by other serial collaborators. Right now, on a pop record near you, you'll almost certainly encounter one of the following doing a little turn on someone else's song: Pitbull, Rihanna, Chris Brown, Akon, Lil' Wayne, Bruno Mars – and the list goes on. In the last couple of years, there's hardly been a successful chart act who hasn't turned up as a "featured artist" on another successful chart act's single.

It goes like this: Big Star A – Madonna, let's say – is recording a single. It's destined to sell well because Madonna is still a huge brand. But how many more people would listen to and download it if she invited Big Stars B and C – Minaj and MIA – to add guest verses? Everyone benefits: Madonna gets the kudos of working with a couple of hip names, while Minaj and MIA get the kudos of working with Madonna, and all three reach not just their own fanbases but those of the other two as well.

Give Me All Your Luvin' debuted in America at No 13 – Madonna's highest position since 2008. Her appearance at the Super Bowl, where MIA flashed her middle finger at the camera, helped, of course: a case of a collaboration that will go down as one of pop's more memorable.

More often, though, A-list hookups aren't landmark events. How can they be, when they've become mandatory for the generic pop/urban acts who've dominated the charts for the past half-decade? There are half a dozen in every week – and for every one that shows an actual affinity between the acts – such as Drake and Rihanna's Take Care – there are a dozen Pitbull/Chris Browns, who exhibit all the passion of two CEOs signing a corporate merger. Even Brit acts such as JLS are traipsing on to the bandwagon; their Brit-nominated outing with American singer Dev is a fine example of two acts being put together for the greater good of their record labels.

Obviously, some collaborations have been inspired matches: Jay-Z and Alicia Keys brought different but equally stirring things to Empire State of Mind; ditto Katy Perry and Snoop Dogg on California Gurls. Christina Aguilera's contribution to Maroon 5's Moves Like Jagger blasted an already euphoric song into the ionosphere, and Lady Gaga and Beyoncé made Telephone an irresistible détente between two alpha females.

More often, though, collaborations are soulless things whose ubiquity is changing the tenor of the chart. The more successful they are, the more get released, and if you've been thinking pop has been a depressing place for the last few years because it's stuffed with schlock-merchants such as Bruno Mars, it's even worse when it's Lil' Wayne featuring Bruno Mars.

www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2012/feb/22/musicians-stop-collaborating-please?newsfeed=true

------

An interesting article! Personally, I don't mind collaborations but it makes some acts seem bigger stars than they actually are (Lil Wayne, T-Pain)

Really? ??? Lil' Wayne seems bigger than he really is even by selling 900k+ in a week of two different albums in the last 5 years....when almost nobody can even accomplish that feat even once let alone almost doing it twice within a 5 year period. You reality deny-ers crack me up.

I agree with the article overall though.

[HolidayGuy]

Madonna also had "Sidewalk Talk" (which she wrote and had prominent vocals on), but the only credit- inexplicably- was Jellybean, who didn't sing a note on the track. Quincy Jones had the good sense to credit his vocalists on tracks, so not sure why Jellybean didn't (unless Madonna didn't want to be credited; not sure about the other vocalist on the track, Cathrine Buchanan).

Collaborations/duets have been common for some time- superstar collaborations such as Barbra Streisand/Donna Summer, Diana Ross/Lionel Richie, etc. Whitney Houston had multiple duets with Jermaine Jackson, and she even duetted with "Aunt Ree" Aretha Franklin on a 1989 single. It's true that "featurings" became big in the 2000s, though.

[Enigma.]

Feb 28, 2012 17:15:38 GMT -5 Adonis the DemiGod! said:

Really? ??? Lil' Wayne seems bigger than he really is even by selling 900k+ in a week of two different albums in the last 5 years....when almost nobody can even accomplish that feat even once let alone almost doing it twice within a 5 year period. You reality deny-ers crack me up.

I agree with the article overall though.

Yea I guess he is in the US. In Europe though not so much and The Guardian is British and I'm Finnish so our point of view is a bit different.

So to put it nicely: "feat. Lil Wayne" doesn't really help outside the US.

[asg4]

Feb 28, 2012 17:41:59 GMT -5 HolidayGuy said:

Madonna also had "Sidewalk Talk" (which she wrote and had prominent vocals on), but the only credit- inexplicably- was Jellybean, who didn't sing a note on the track. Quincy Jones had the good sense to credit his vocalists on tracks, so not sure why Jellybean didn't (unless Madonna didn't want to be credited; not sure about the other vocalist on the track, Cathrine Buchanan).

Collaborations/duets have been common for some time- superstar collaborations such as Barbra Streisand/Donna Summer, Diana Ross/Lionel Richie, etc. Whitney Houston had multiple duets with Jermaine Jackson, and she even duetted with "Aunt Ree" Aretha Franklin on a 1989 single. It's true that "featurings" became big in the 2000s, though.

whois or what is jellybean. I know the next version of android is called jellybean