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Post by clarksonnumber1 on Aug 22, 2012 6:40:18 GMT -5
If Dark Side had been the first single and Mr. Know It All had been third, do you think Dark Side would have performed better and Mr. Know It All would have performed worse?
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james
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Post by james on Aug 22, 2012 6:50:32 GMT -5
If Dark Side had been the first single and Mr. Know It All had been third, do you think Dark Side would have performed better and Mr. Know It All would have performed worse? No, I actually think MKIA was a pretty good single. It grew far more than Dark Side and performed well internationally; probably more so than MLWSWY. However I think the song definitely benefited from promo. MKIA grew so much on me upon a few listens. Overall Dark Side just isn't what radio wants to play.
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Peterawr
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Post by Peterawr on Aug 22, 2012 9:28:29 GMT -5
Though, if Dark Side had the same number of performances as MKIA had, I think it would have done better, actually. I agree with the seasons thing, this is more of a fall/winter song. MKIA was released in the fall, and Dark Side would have done great.
However, I totally understand the reasoning behind MKIA and am very glad they went with it.
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KMJ1
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Post by KMJ1 on Aug 22, 2012 10:38:51 GMT -5
I still think it's just treading water, but: 22 23 KELLY CLARKSON Dark Side 3205 3125 80 16.633 +26 Spins +30 Bullet -0.192 Audience rrrr if it simply wasnt for the damn AI :/ Anyone think this has a shot at going top 40 this week on the BB Top 40?
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Aug 22, 2012 16:31:50 GMT -5
I personally feel that Dark Side would've been way more successful than MKIA had it been released as lead single instead.
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Post by lapetitemort on Aug 22, 2012 21:54:42 GMT -5
Dark Side doesn't strike me as a lead single nor a summer single. I think a fall/winter release would have played better in its favor.
I would have ordered the singles as follows: 1. Stronger 2. MKIA (Spring) 3. I Forgive You (Summer) 4. Darkside (Fall/Winter) 5. You Love Me
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nick64
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Post by nick64 on Aug 22, 2012 22:26:52 GMT -5
Dark Side doesn't strike me as a lead single nor a summer single. I think a fall/winter release would have played better in its favor. I would have ordered the singles as follows: 1. Stronger 2. MKIA (Spring) 3. I Forgive You (Summer) 4. Darkside (Fall/Winter) 5. You Love Me I don't think Stronger should've been the lead single. Mr. Know It All did well enough to get attention, and that's what a lead single should do. Stronger smashing added longevity to the album. Its sales were consistent, and created even more hype for future singles. Unfortunately, Dark Side was received warmly by radio. If Stronger was the lead single, the album probably would've debuted with higher sales. However, Mr. Know It All probably wouldn't have done much better than Dark Side if it wasn't a lead single. If Mr. Know It All did perform similarly to Dark Side as a second single, much of the hype for future singles would have gone away, and sales would not be as consistent. Longevity >>> Debut Sales Mr. Know It All was definately a great choice for a lead single.
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Post by ificanthaveyou on Aug 22, 2012 22:50:39 GMT -5
I will never understand why MKIA was chosen to lead. For all the promo it got and the time it was out, several other songs could have performed just as well (i.e. IFY, DS, LMD) if not better. I think releasing Stronger first would have helped the album to debut with similar sales as AIEW, and the album wouldn't have dropped as quickly in sales.
I don't get the whole "saving a song for the album's longevity" that people claim that RCA did with Stronger. If you release the best songs on the album at the right time, longevity shouldn't be a problem. AIEW hit a huge roadblock when IDNHU was released, and it feels like Stronger is suffering the same fate. Obviously a new single can help revive the album, but Stronger should not be at the point of "revival" just yet.
The big problem with RCA has always been wrong single choices and timing. They always seem to release the wrong singles at the wrong freaking time. Dark Side in the dead heat of summer was not a brilliant idea at all. It is definitely single-worthy but not at this time of year. Sadly, it feels like they've yet to learn from their mistakes. I just hope her album goes five singles deep next time. She has the material, its just a matter of releasing and promoting them.
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slayZ
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Post by slayZ on Aug 22, 2012 23:22:03 GMT -5
The problem with the album is that, there really isn't a song in it that would be a smash except for Stronger, so I guess releasing that as a second single for longevity was a good call. IFY would have done better than DS following Stronger's wave, sure, but it still wouldn't have been that big of a hit IMO. I think, the perfect scenario from a business point of view would have been MKIA/Stronger/IFY/Re-release.
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Aug 23, 2012 5:52:49 GMT -5
Was definitely treading water. 22 23 KELLY CLARKSON Dark Side 3190 3150 40 16.339 -15 Spins -40 Bullet -0.294 Audience
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KMJ1
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Post by KMJ1 on Aug 23, 2012 8:55:23 GMT -5
yes, if WDKY was the lead single, 'Stronger' most prob. woulda debuted higher (along the same lines as AIEW) but would've tapered (again, like AIEW) so we'd prob. be in or around the same 900k mark now (possibly a bit more or even less) but I think about the same. What was key to WDKY being single #2 is it kept some kind of hype and momentum. It's obviously better to have one under performing single vs. 2 like with AIEW when it's album sales started to plummet and NOT stay consistent like 'Stronger'. Look, even w/ DS she's somehow been able to stay in or around the top 50, not sell anything less than around 6k, is 100k HIGHER Than AIEW was and we're abt. to head into the fall/holiday season, so 1 million in sales is DEF. coming compared to if this stalled around 800k.
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Post by robertfaith on Aug 23, 2012 8:55:24 GMT -5
Unfortunately this song just didn't strike a chord with listeners. Due to the mammoth success of WDKY Radio all over the world jumped onto the follow up single but it just didn't do well. It probably never should have been a single if she couldn't get Top40 on the Hot100 or Top20 on Pop. I think Kelly needs a good concept album that isn't dark. It frustrates me that time and time again its proven that people love her Pop/Rock breakup songs, but thats her decision to put out the kind of music she wants to make so I suppose we have to live with the fact that she will probably never have another album of more than 1 hit like Breakaway.
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KMJ1
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Post by KMJ1 on Aug 23, 2012 9:04:49 GMT -5
I agree. her signature 'sound' is pop/rock, like w/ Madonna it's pop/dance and Mariah pop/r&b etc etc...W/ Madonna and Mariah they've moved way off the chart the other away from the classic effective blend of the 'pop' factor. W/ Kelly she's just being too 'experimental' and virtually rebelling against releasing the 'sound' she does best which I dont get. I understand she's an artist and wants to try different/ non Breakaway sounds and toa degree it's worked (WDKY and MLWS) which are def. more dance/electro pop but enough already lol. It's been too long- she needs that power pop/rock catchy kick a*s song people love from her! I think it's that plus the fact they continue releasing awful/lackluster singles! Songs like IICHY and even DLMSY positively were better than the singles chosen on AIEW and w/ Stronger 'Let Me Down' I have NO doubt its the song people are craving from Kelly and would instantly revive interest. It's such a perfect follow up esp after such a sedative of song in Dark Side.
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Post by robertfaith on Aug 23, 2012 9:31:36 GMT -5
I agree. her signature 'sound' is pop/rock, like w/ Madonna it's pop/dance and Mariah pop/r&b etc etc...W/ Madonna and Mariah they've moved way off the chart the other away from the classic effective blend of the 'pop' factor. W/ Kelly she's just being too 'experimental' and virtually rebelling against releasing the 'sound' she does best which I dont get. I agree with this. We do know that she is perfectly happy with her level of success but it feels a little unfair to the fans who follow her and love that sound. I understand she's an artist and wants to try different/ non Breakaway sounds and toa degree it's worked (WDKY and MLWS) which are def. more dance/electro pop but enough already lol. It's been too long- she needs that power pop/rock catchy kick a*s song people love from her! I think it's that plus the fact they continue releasing awful/lackluster singles! Songs like IICHY and even DLMSY positively were better than the singles chosen on AIEW and w/ Stronger 'Let Me Down' I have NO doubt its the song people are craving from Kelly and would instantly revive interest. It's such a perfect follow up esp after such a sedative of song in Dark Side. I don't know about that the chorus is good but I think it sounds more like an album track not like a standout hit. We've all picked out what we think are hits, like with Breakaway I felt all of them but Walkaway were big songs with the addition of Addicted and Gone. With this album I felt I Forgive You is my 1st choice although I'm still not in love with it like I was with WDKY. I think there is an element of production missing from these songs. I can't listen to this album start to finish like I can with Breakaway or AIEW. I would love for her to work with cool producers who were not of her genre like P!nk who I think is most like Kelly of current artists. Her collab on Sober with Nathaniel Hills was cool but still her.
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Ace
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Post by Ace on Aug 23, 2012 9:34:59 GMT -5
I don't get the mentality that because this hasn't smashed, it's a terrible/uncatchy/worst song/single everrrr. If it was a terrible choice and not catchy or radio-friendly at all, it wouldn't have risen as high as it has on iTunes, nor continued to maintain its current level of radio play.
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Aug 23, 2012 9:46:08 GMT -5
I don't get the mentality that because this hasn't smashed, it's a terrible/uncatchy/worst song/single everrrr. If it was a terrible choice and not catchy or radio-friendly at all, it wouldn't have risen as high as it has on iTunes, nor continued to maintain its current level of radio play. Yep. And if they had gone with I Forgive You and it reached #12 with similar sales, everyone would have been saying it's because it's dated and bland and they should have gone with the infinitely superior Dark Side to continue her momentum instead of releasing IDNHU II.
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bb
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Post by bb on Aug 23, 2012 10:04:50 GMT -5
I agree. her signature 'sound' is pop/rock, like w/ Madonna it's pop/dance and Mariah pop/r&b etc etc...W/ Madonna and Mariah they've moved way off the chart the other away from the classic effective blend of the 'pop' factor. W/ Kelly she's just being too 'experimental' and virtually rebelling against releasing the 'sound' she does best which I dont get. I understand she's an artist and wants to try different/ non Breakaway sounds and toa degree it's worked (WDKY and MLWS) which are def. more dance/electro pop but enough already lol. I really don't understand people who say that Kelly is rejecting her old "sound" or being too experimental. Since when has Kelly been pigeon-holed and not allowed to try some new, innovative things? Since when has she had any sort of responsibility to her fans to release "Since U Been Gone" 2,3,4,5? If she wants to, great! She'll be all over the pop scene like she was in '05 and like she was this past February/March. If she doesn't, great! Maybe we'll get some really beautiful, artistic gems like "Maybe", "Sober", "Irvine". I would/will love that. On top of all of this, I'm a bit tired of this nonsense that "Dark Side" really is that far removed from what we've come to expect from Kelly or what radio has come to expect from her. Sure, it's not a boy-bashing up tempo but it's not "Sober" either. It has performed to an obnoxious degree of mediocrity, I agree, and I'm disappointed, but her album is not chock-full of potential smashes like Breakaway was and it's not designed to do so. Maybe there were better choices, but we'll probably never know. "Dark Side" is a beautiful, vulnerable but actually quite catchy song and the production is current and energetic instead of being dated (looking at you, "I Forgive You"). Public interest is substantial, given its position on iTunes and the fact that radio did let it get to #22 (?). I expected better but I'm also very, very pleased that there was at the very least some interest surrounding one of my favorite songs. In a nutshell, what I'm trying to say is the treatment and discussion of this song by naysayers is overwrought and exaggerated (just as exaggerated as my expectations of this going top five on Pop), and at this point the chips are down, so we're just going to have to live with it.
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slayZ
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Post by slayZ on Aug 23, 2012 12:07:39 GMT -5
I don't really think Dark Side is catchy...at all.
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Aug 23, 2012 12:11:06 GMT -5
I don't really think Dark Side is catchy...at all. Which is fine, but that doesn't mean that it's not. There's a post about a song not being catchy in basically every pop thread on Pulse.
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slayZ
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Post by slayZ on Aug 23, 2012 12:14:59 GMT -5
I don't really think Dark Side is catchy...at all. Which is fine, but that doesn't mean that it's not. There's a post about a song not being catchy in basically every pop thread on Pulse. But if the song WAS catchy and immediate, it would have had a better reaction on radio, no? The chorus, which should be the hook of a song, isn't a stand out. You'd think that if this track was really all that great, immediate and radio friendly~, it would have at least managed to crack Top 40 and failed to do so. There is something wrong and it definitely lacks something. My opinion of course, but based on its performance, both digitally and on radio, I'm not exactly in the minority when it comes to this, except on Pulse.
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Jay
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Post by Jay on Aug 23, 2012 12:28:00 GMT -5
The song has done pretty well digitally for its performance on radio. I think it peaked at #25 on iTunes which is good considering its lack of promo and minimal airplay.
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Aug 23, 2012 12:40:18 GMT -5
Catchiness is debatable, but I really could never imagine Dark Side being in high rotation next to most songs hitting today. I also don't think sales are all that great. She just came off a very high profile massive hit, everyone knows who she is, she performed it, and it had a video. Songs that were never singles and never promoted and never had a video coast by 500K if there is enough interest. There just never seemed to be much interest in Dark Side even given her high profile as a pop star and momentum from Stronger :/ Which is a shame because it is a good song and Kelly had so much momentum after Stronger that it seemed like another smash was pretty much a guarantee.
I guess it just goes to show you that if the song doesn't click it doesn't click no matter how much you want it to and there are no guarantees.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Aug 23, 2012 12:54:29 GMT -5
Catchiness is debatable, but I really could never imagine Dark Side being in high rotation next to most songs hitting today. I also don't think sales are all that great. She just came off a very high profile massive hit, everyone knows who she is, she performed it, and it had a video. Songs that were never singles and never promoted and never had a video coast by 500K if there is enough interest. There just never seemed to be much interest in Dark Side even given her high profile as a pop star and momentum from Stronger :/ Which is a shame because it is a good song and Kelly had so much momentum after Stronger that it seemed like another smash was pretty much a guarantee. Correct.
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slayZ
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Post by slayZ on Aug 23, 2012 15:51:36 GMT -5
The song has done pretty well digitally for its performance on radio. I think it peaked at #25 on iTunes which is good considering its lack of promo and minimal airplay. Talk to me about how much it sold, not about where it peaked on iTunes lol. It's following a 3x platinum single and it's barely sold, what, 400k copies? Audiences just didn't connect, and neither did radio programmers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2012 18:11:44 GMT -5
Great song. Even though she has a handful of much better album tracks, this is probably my favourite single of hers. Sonically it's not exactly a departure from her typical sound, and the lyrics are still firmly in fat-girl-Facebook-statusing-through-the-tears-and-doughnuts zone, but it all feels so much more natural than "What Doesn't Kill You (Stronger)", and I actually think it's a lot catchier than that song too.
Thinking about single potential does get me wondering if I'm listening to the right song though. It doesn't sound a thing like "Someone Like You", "Take A Bow" and "We Belong Together. Is it even sad? I'd hesitate to call it happy, but from what I can tell it's about a woman questioning if she should take a relationship to the next level. I wouldn't call that sad. It's very relatable.
An easy top five. Oh. To be honest, I still don't see a good reason why this never really went anywhere. It's not a departure for Kelly, it's relatable and it's catchy. I still laugh every time I see somebody refer to it as dark. Literally the only thing dark about it is that it has the word dark in its lyrics and title. I also loled at people calling it experimental, although honestly I might have imagined that. Not managing to go top ten after "Stronger" is bizarre, but aside from not being able to hear it in rotation next to today's big hits (because I can), I'm going to have to assume Love Plastic Love is right. People must just not like it - the last resort of Pulse flop reasoning. Out of interest, considering it hung around so long, could anybody who follows that sort of thing more closely tell me if it's going to be abnormally high on the year-end chart for a song that barely scraped the top 20? Because it really seems to have been in the 20-35 range for so long that it should be higher than the other songs that peaked in a similar area this year.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Aug 23, 2012 18:29:46 GMT -5
I don't even want to find my posts on Dark Side being a single before it was. Vindicated, but not happily so.
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Aug 23, 2012 18:37:01 GMT -5
Billy, your initial post those many moons ago gave my assurance reassurance. Asshole.
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franklin
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Post by franklin on Aug 23, 2012 18:40:45 GMT -5
Billy, your initial post those many moons ago gave my assurance reassurance. Asshole. It even made me question my hesitations. Asshole [2].
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2012 18:43:49 GMT -5
I predict a MKIA-esque run. Whelp, so much for that. How can such a safe prediction have ended in an overestimation.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Aug 23, 2012 19:08:58 GMT -5
OK. I lied. Nope. I've expanded on it elsewhere, but it's absolutely the wrong choice for single number three. Make it number five if it has to be. But radio clearly wants easy breezy Kelly. This isn't it. Teenagers are not going to buying this song and go around singing the lyrics, KISS isn't going to put it into high rotation, it won't sit well against other songs on radio, I can't see people rushing to iTunes. It would be back to the perceived gloomy, angst-ridden pop/rock image that haunted her during the My December era. I actually love the song and think it's a great album cut. I'm just trying to think like casual listeners and DJ's. There are clearly a lot of people very fond of the song, but I think its hit potential has been so wildly overstated, it's need to be the second single so woefully championed, I really can't help but feel people are missing the big picture. Is this song at all like What Doesn't Kill You or Suck? (Her biggest/will be biggest hits of the last five years). Kelly's success on radio has lay in independence anthems, pop/rock kiss-offs, big ballads, or fun empowering dance/pop. Dark Side is none of those things. It blatantly fails to cater to either the radio programmers who are spinning the hell out of Stronger or the people rushing on iTunes to buy Stronger. So having established it's nothing like what's made her successful so far, it's nothing like what's being played on Top 40 radio, and it's nothing like her latest single which is clicking with the public in a massive way, it baffles me as to why people think it's destined for such super-success. You might argue that the fact it's not like anything else on Pop radio works in Dark Side's favor, but she is not Adele, who is the it girl of the moment who can make anything fly. They have to tread carefully, wisely, and capitalize on the momentum from S(WDKY). Choosing Dark Side would be almost the direct opposite of that, and amount to near sabotage. I may be proved wrong, but every objective instinct in me is telling me Dark Side is the wrong choice.
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