asg4
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Post by asg4 on Apr 1, 2012 19:10:27 GMT -5
This argument is absurd. Most people who are shelling out the bucks for tickets to see Adele in concert which are not cheap would have purchased the album anyway. So silly to think they would not have. The same logic would also apply to princes 2004 give away but thats not true
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Apr 1, 2012 19:13:56 GMT -5
I'd say we wait until the actual numbers come out before having this discussion. Hopefully the numbers will be separated to take into account where they came from. I think then we can decide how to interpret those numbers for our own discussions, just like people did last year when Born This Way debuted with about 400k more than it *supposedly* "would have" if it wasn't for Amazon. We can count (or discount) that 400k the same way we can choose to count (or discount) the concert ticket sales from MDNA. It's just a matter of whether we find out how many copies that ends up being.
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seaguy27
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Post by seaguy27 on Apr 1, 2012 19:24:13 GMT -5
I do not even agree with the term giveaway. I do not believe that the majority of the people who are going to pay the kind of money it cost to see Madonna would not have purchased the album anyway.
On top of it you have to make the decision to get it redeemed. Redemptions are like redeeming rebates and they are notoriously low for a reason, which is people do not like to have to take the extra step. If her redemptions are high then that tells me those people really wanted the album.
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seaguy27
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Post by seaguy27 on Apr 1, 2012 19:28:53 GMT -5
Prince album peak wasnt effected by the giveaways,The album would have peaked at #3 even without the giveaways. But that was back in 2004 album sales were not this low and if that promotion had taken place today he might have bounced back to #1 several times and robbed many ppl from reaching #1 I think it was wrong to count the albums as real sales and I thought billboard had banned the practice of counting give aways. I was very surprised to see 3-4 days back that these albums were going to count. \ Bon Jovi was not a give away but a add on option to ticket sales which meant u paid $10 extra to get the download which is totally fair and legit. This redemption practice will lead to creative marketing from others very soon. Next time i go to Mcdonalds and order a fish fillet combo i will be asked do u want the new kanye/ jayZ of course i will accept it since it wont cost me a penny. You are comparing a fish fillet combo at mcdonalds which has nothing to do with music with a minimum $75 concert ticket to see said artist? Sorry but that is way off.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2012 19:32:40 GMT -5
let lionel do a solo album with no more than 2 guest cameos and see if he can come close to m
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Apr 1, 2012 19:50:54 GMT -5
let lionel do a solo album with no more than 2 guest cameos and see if he can come close to m What does that have to do with anything?
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 1, 2012 22:29:08 GMT -5
Was there such discussion when Bon Jovi and Tom Petty had these album-redemption sales for their albums? Something tells me no. :)
In the case of Ms. Ciccone, people are paying such a high amount for her tickets as it is, so $10 or so of that amount (which is probably worked into the ticket price) is not comparable to an album selling for 99 cents. it just isn't.
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 1, 2012 22:37:40 GMT -5
Was there such discussion when Bon Jovi and Tom Petty had these album-redemption sales for their albums? Something tells me no. :) In the case of Ms. Ciccone, people are paying such a high amount for her tickets as it is, so $10 or so of that amount (which is probably worked into the ticket price) is not comparable to an album selling for 99 cents. it just isn't. Oh, but with a load of verbose BS and chest-thumping, one of the members of Pulse will make you believe it is.
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 1, 2012 22:39:53 GMT -5
This is idiotic..IF THE CONSUMER HAS TO MAKE A CHOICE TO RECEIEVE THE CD, you can not throw out words like manipulation. I'm sorry. You're just trying to make somethig out of nothing. Billboard has not ued the word "giveaway" in the articles, because these "sales" are not "free" and not "given away" BUT IT IS A GIVEAWAY!!!111 THEY DIDNT PAY FOR THE ALBUM, THEY PAID FOR A $300 CONCERT TICKET *I CAN HAZ MELTDOWN* Sanity still rules at Pulse! <333
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asg4
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Post by asg4 on Apr 2, 2012 0:01:40 GMT -5
I do not even agree with the term giveaway. I do not believe that the majority of the people who are going to pay the kind of money it cost to see Madonna would not have purchased the album anyway. On top of it you have to make the decision to get it redeemed. Redemptions are like redeeming rebates and they are notoriously low for a reason, which is people do not like to have to take the extra step. If her redemptions are high then that tells me those people really wanted the album. Most ppl going to see her show want to go there to see the old material yes alot of older acts do sell alot of tix for tours but the audience is there for the older material now if the tour was about the new album only they wont be many takers. They could care less about GGW. plus the redemption is allowing 8 cds per person limit and giving away pit tix to encourage ppl to redeem. Same thing happened with prince million extra cd were "sold" of course all these ppl paid for concert tix. The good thing is he didnt steal the #1 position otherwise there would be alot of outrage. In fact her last album opened much lower without the giveaways then this one with 2 flop singles. Poor Lionel is being robbed of the #1 position
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seaguy27
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Post by seaguy27 on Apr 2, 2012 0:08:38 GMT -5
I do not agree with you at all. I have been to several of her concerts and a good chunk of the people there are big fans. Otherwise she would be an older act singing at a Casino. Your argument still does not answer why someone would redeem an album if all their interested is old material. Redemptions are like rebates and most people do not redeem unless they really want to.
Hit singles do not guarantee album sells. Their are acts that can command a large opening no matter what. Hard Candy may have had a radio hit but it really did not excite her base. This album is exciting her base.
Madonna or any other artist does not steal anything. If you have a problem with it then blame Billboard. You act as if Madonna and her team were throwing cd's out of the back of a truck without any cost to anyone.
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Post by π
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Ύ on Apr 2, 2012 0:30:13 GMT -5
Madonna or any other artist does not steal anything. If you have a problem with it then blame Billboard. You act as if Madonna and her team were throwing cd's out of the back of a truck without any cost to anyone. You have to realize this is Pulse Music Board. ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) People like to give the most esoteric and mind-numbing logic to justify why they feel what they feel. Some of these people are losing their shit over something completely inconsequential. So what if Madonna gets one week at number one on the Billboard 200? Is the world going to stop turning? Will the sun never come out again? It's one fucking week! So what if Madonna and her label are trying new methods? If she wants to give out her CD out for free throwing it out of airplanes, sell it for $0.01 on Amazon, give it away with Happy Meals, give it out with welfare debit cards, it doesn't matter. As long as whatever she is doing is within the right of everything when it comes to Billboard and Soundscan, you have to just deal. So why are they caring if her drop during the second week will be astronomically large? If they dislike her that much and seek to discredit her, why are they so invested? Even months from now we will have some people claiming that she still pulled some sort of shenanigans to get her number one. People still claim that Lady Gaga herself asked Amazon to sell her album for $0.99 last year. Even when proper proof was given that Amazon indeed paid and took a loss doing that promotion in an effort to showcase their new cloud service, people still didn't stop questioning the legitimacy of that.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Apr 2, 2012 0:38:46 GMT -5
i think it's brilliant marketing.
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asg4
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Post by asg4 on Apr 2, 2012 0:49:27 GMT -5
i think it's brilliant marketing. It just reeks of Desperation
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 2, 2012 0:55:20 GMT -5
i think it's brilliant marketing. It just reeks of Desperation LMAO Trolling: You're doing it wrong
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Post by π
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Ύ on Apr 2, 2012 0:57:21 GMT -5
It just reeks of Desperation LMAO Trolling: You're doing it wrong They'll say it's brilliant when their favorite does it, but when someone they dislike does it, it's like that artist committed murder than had sexual relations on top of the bloody corpse. It's disgusting.
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 2, 2012 1:08:37 GMT -5
LMAO Trolling: You're doing it wrong They'll say it's brilliant when their favorite does it, but when someone they dislike does it, it's like that artist committed murder than had sexual relations on top of the bloody corpse. It's disgusting. Oh let them scream into their pillows for a few weeks - it's melodramatic enough to at least be entertaining haha.
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d.t.m
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Post by d.t.m on Apr 2, 2012 1:11:34 GMT -5
Nice numbers regardless for Madge, but I want to see the receipts the second week.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Apr 2, 2012 3:40:45 GMT -5
Was there such discussion when Bon Jovi and Tom Petty had these album-redemption sales for their albums? Something tells me no. :) In the case of Ms. Ciccone, people are paying such a high amount for her tickets as it is, so $10 or so of that amount (which is probably worked into the ticket price) is not comparable to an album selling for 99 cents. it just isn't. I think it's at least comparable. I just don't think there's anything wrong with it. Things change with how music is sold and artists have to be creative with how they market and sell albums now. People knew what they were getting with Madonna and the concert ticket beforehand so there was no deception. If there's no deception, it counts. Plain and simple. I just think it'd be hypocritical for someone to have bitched and complained last year only to turn around and say this instance is perfectly fine. I don't think, as far as I know, that anyone actually is because I didn't keep track of what people's opinions are of both instances but I should really hope not.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Apr 2, 2012 3:40:59 GMT -5
Argh @ this thread
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leoapp
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Post by leoapp on Apr 2, 2012 5:49:06 GMT -5
Just like Gaga's case last year, I think just because this is Madonna we are talking about, considering MDNA is lack of hit single but projected to have great debut sales, and with the redemption issue, some people complain. If it's someone else less popular, no one would complain.
It's just up to Billboard rule.
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jumpb4uthink
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Post by jumpb4uthink on Apr 2, 2012 6:49:02 GMT -5
We still don't know what percent of ticket sales are factored in. It may be high or low but it's called marketing regardless and that has a lot to do with the music business.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 2, 2012 8:11:52 GMT -5
The Drowned World Tour in 2001 was mostly material from Ray of Light and Music, and it was one of the year's biggest tours. And she did 10 Confessions on a Dance Floor tracks on 2006's The Confessions Tour- again, to huge success. Of course people love to hear the classics, but they're perfectly fine with the new material, too.
Who bitched and complained about album redemptions from ticket purchases? Those clearly aren't the same as selling an album for 99 cents or 25 cents, when that is the only transaction involved (and not tickets that cost hundreds of dollars).
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asg4
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Post by asg4 on Apr 2, 2012 8:25:35 GMT -5
The Drowned World Tour in 2001 was mostly material from Ray of Light and Music, and it was one of the year's biggest tours. And she did 10 Confessions on a Dance Floor tracks on 2006's The Confessions Tour- again, to huge success. Of course people love to hear the classics, but they're perfectly fine with the new material, too. Who bitched and complained about album redemptions from ticket purchases? Those clearly aren't the same as selling an album for 99 cents or 25 cents, when that is the only transaction involved (and not tickets that cost hundreds of dollars). The reason ppl didnt complain about 25cent or 99cent was coz the albums didnt block anyone from reaching #1. But it reflects badly on billboard the charts lose their credibility. But i know most of the madonna stans complained when mariah sold her singles super cheap.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 2, 2012 8:35:31 GMT -5
But this album-redemption thing already is an established rule. I do agree that some probably complain because they do not want to see Her Madgesty on top- but that's another matter. ![](http://yoursmiles.org/ssmile/fun/s0244.gif) If her album was at the bottom of the top 10 without them or something, there probably would be less of an issue for some. I wonder how many MDNA units were sold at the fab.com site- I guess that would be one of the non-traditional outlets, as it was the first music title the site has sold.
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The Upper Hand
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Post by The Upper Hand on Apr 2, 2012 9:09:57 GMT -5
I do believe there are many people who bought a ticket (or two, or three...) and ordered the album just because there was no additional cost involved. I mean they would buy the tickets anyway, but they were not necessarily willing to purchase the album.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 2, 2012 9:13:15 GMT -5
No additional cost reported, but at those prices, I have little doubt that the mere $10 probably is worked into it.
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moore746
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Post by moore746 on Apr 2, 2012 9:20:43 GMT -5
BUT HOW DO WE KNOW PEOPLE DIDN'T BUY A BUNCH OF CONCERT TICKETS JUST SO THEY COULD GIFT THE ALBUM TO THEIR FRIENDS?!?!?!? ![:d](http://images.proboards.com/cheesy.gif) (This argument has gotten stale, and dare I say...reductive.)
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Apr 2, 2012 9:29:48 GMT -5
I do wonder if it should be counted on the basis that the album was a side-product for the main purchase. If an album is combined with an offer from a cell-provider's phone plan, for example, it isn't counted. Why is this instance any different?
I see it from both sides though.
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chartfreak
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Post by chartfreak on Apr 2, 2012 10:15:10 GMT -5
But it's not like each album is being counted for every ticket?! Only the ones redeemed, which the consumer is making a choice to redeem it at that point.
If 600,000 tickets were sold but only 150,000 redeemed, what's the big deal? Get over it.
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