jumpb4uthink
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Post by jumpb4uthink on Apr 3, 2012 13:22:26 GMT -5
We agree to disagree. :)
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seaguy27
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Post by seaguy27 on Apr 3, 2012 14:04:32 GMT -5
so lionel has about 200k of real sales according to forbes what will mdna have in real sales. my guess is like 170-180k So now your going to assume that all the people that redeemed albums would not have purchased the album anyway? It is common sense to understand that at least a certain percentage of people willing to pay for expensive tickets to see her may have purchased the album as well. I respect that you may have an opinion that you dislike the redemption practice and that is ok with me, however I feel you argue your point with a huge amount of assumptions that have no basis to them.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 3, 2012 14:29:50 GMT -5
Of course the- ahem- esteemed Mr. Friedman got it wrong, saying that ticket buyers automatically get the album- they have to take action to get it. And, of course, he doesn't speculate that the ticket prices may include the mere $9-$10 for the clean/standard version. I wouldn't expect anything less from him, though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2012 14:31:58 GMT -5
so lionel has about 200k of real sales according to forbes what will mdna have in real sales. my guess is like 170-180k Most likely, the total is somewhere around there. Hopefully, a breakdown of the total will be released. No matter what the "promotion" total is, I don't support it - for any artist. (BTW: I've said this before, but Billboard is really late on eliminating "promotion" tactics like this one. Something should've been done long ago. It's too late now to stop Madonna from having her "# 1 hit," but no matter if it was 5 copies or 500,000 copies given away, IMO, the rules need to change.)
There have been a couple of Forbes (and Billboard) articles out talking about this during the week. I think this one was posted earlier in the thread today, but it's worth reading again because it says it all...even naming other artists that have pulled this "promotion" thing before. Here is the entire Forbes article:Media & Entertainment|4/03/2012 @ 12:09PM |5,850 views Madonna Bundles Album with Ticket Sales to Ensure Number 1 DebutMadonna‘s “MDNA” album is expected be the number 1 album in the country this week. Final numbers will come in later today. But in fact, Lionel Richie, with nearly 200,000 copies of his “Tuskegee” album sold–his best debut in 20 years or m0re–could post a valid complaint. It turns out that a hefty number of “MDNA” albums weren’t sold the usual way. Madonna’s label, Interscope, and Live Nation, which owns Ticketmaster, bundled the album with her ticket sales. For every ticket sold online to Madonna’s upcoming shows, purchasers automatically receive a copy of “MDNA.” They get a link to a free purchase on ITunes, or they can send in their mailing address for a physical CD. It doesn’t matter if the concert ticket is $52 or $350. It’s a smart marketing move for Interscope. It unnaturally inflates sales, and uses “MDNA” for what albums have become–souvenirs, or loss leaders. The real money is in the live show anyway. No one knows yet how many of “MDNA” sales will be attributed to the Ticketmaster giveaway, but numbers will probably be broken out in the next couple of days. Here’s the wording from Ticketmaster’s website: Get “MDNA” with your Ticket- Madonna is having a huge party and everyone’s invited. For every ticket purchased online, you’ll receive your choice of a digital or physical copy of Madonna’s new album MDNA. Prior to the album release on 3/26, you’ll receive an email from Ticketmaster with redemption instructions. If you purchase your tickets on or after 3/26, you’ll receive your email within 48 hours. Offer is valid for United States residents & events only. Please note: This offer is not valid for tickets purchased through Official Platinum Seats or TicketExchange.This is not the first time this has been tried. In the past, both Bon Jovi and Tom Petty had “bundles” with CDs and tickets. They just weren’t as successful. One source tells me that their pick up rates weren’t necessarily that high. “Not everyone takes the CD,” says the source, although it seems unlikely that customers who want a ticket to see an artist don’t also want their new music– as it’s already included in the price of admission. Billboard wrote about this not too long ago. “This sort of ticket/album promotion has been used in the recent past by such acts as Bon Jovi and Tom Petty. The latter’s “Mojo” album saw a No. 2 debut on July 3, 2010 — thanks to a fair number of customers who got the album via a ticket purchase. The same goes for Bon Jovi’s 2007 No. 1 album “Lost Highway.” The only sales that will count towards Billboard’s charts are those where the customer opted to receive the album.” www.billboard.com/news/madonna-lionel-richie-set-for-big-billboard-1006603552.storyIs it fair to artists on the chart who didn’t “bundle”? Last year, retailers and others objected when amazon.com did a 99 cent promotion with Lady Gaga for her “Born this Way” album. But Interscope (again Interscope) sold their bulk of CDs in first two weeks. The amazon promotion inflated Gaga’s sales by 440,000 copies to 1.1 million. And then sales tapered off. The Richie album, by the way, is “hot.” So the real test will be whether “MDNA” has legs beyond the promotion. Forbes
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 3, 2012 14:33:50 GMT -5
^If you've followed Friedman, you know that he's published many anti-Madonna articles- hardly a non-biased party. hehe Can't believe Forbes hired him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2012 14:35:32 GMT -5
Of course the- ahem- esteemed Mr. Friedman got it wrong, saying that ticket buyers automatically get the album- they have to take action to get it. And, of course, he doesn't speculate that the ticket prices may include the mere $9-$10 for the clean/standard version. I wouldn't expect anything less from him, though. I agree on the first part. I don't agree on the second. It's not like that $9-$10 difference is going to be a deciding factor in whether people go to see Madonna, considering how expensive her tickets are in the first place. They're purchasing a concert ticket, not a concert ticket + an album. The album is a bonus. So I don't view it as people purchasing the Madonna album because the cost "may" be included in the ticket cost, from an economic standpoint.
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seaguy27
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Post by seaguy27 on Apr 3, 2012 14:38:32 GMT -5
^If you've followed Friedman, you know that he's published many anti-Madonna articles- hardly a non-biased party. hehe Can't believe Forbes hired him. Yes, but even Friedman admits in the article that most people buying tickets for her concert would want or be interested in buying the album anyway.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 3, 2012 14:40:09 GMT -5
Exactly, jazzy- the ticket prices are so high as it is, that $9-$10 doesn't make much of a difference (especially for the top-priced tickets). So, the album cost easily could be part of the total.
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seaguy27
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Post by seaguy27 on Apr 3, 2012 14:43:14 GMT -5
The funny thing is , is that in this article and I have heard many other people state this. Why is Madonna able to get such a higher number of redemptions compared to other artist were it added so little to their sales???
Could it be because these people were going to get the album anyway? Hmmmm!
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asg4
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Post by asg4 on Apr 3, 2012 14:44:47 GMT -5
Exactly, jazzy- the ticket prices are so high as it is, that $9-$10 doesn't make much of a difference (especially for the top-priced tickets). So, the album cost easily could be part of the total. That argument was used by prince too saying the cd is priced into tix but we all know he has never "sold" those many albums in 20yrs
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2012 14:46:21 GMT -5
The funny thing is , is that in this article and I have heard many other people state this. Why is Madonna able to get such a higher number of redemptions compared to other artist were it added so little to their sales??? Could it be because these people were going to get the album anyway? Hmmmm! I thought Tom Petty had a fairly high percentage of redemptions too. Perhaps the number of tickets sold is the reason the raw number of redemptions is higher.
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asg4
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Post by asg4 on Apr 3, 2012 14:46:23 GMT -5
The funny thing is , is that in this article and I have heard many other people state this. Why is Madonna able to get such a higher number of redemptions compared to other artist were it added so little to their sales??? Could it be because these people were going to get the album anyway? Hmmmm! Bon Jovi wasnt a redemption at all. u were a given a link to pay extra $10 to get the album
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microcuts
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Post by microcuts on Apr 3, 2012 14:47:50 GMT -5
I don't think the ticket prices reflected the cost of the album. What about all the people who didn't choose to redeem the album voucher? If the album cost was already integrated into the ticket price, then that would mean they paid for something they didn't even acquire. It's clearly a bonus.
I definitely feel that the majority of people that redeemed the album would have purchased it anyway. And who's to say that they still didn't, being that the only album version available through the promotion was the "clean" version. Certainly there are people out there that wanted the uncensored/deluxe versions and went ahead and bought those as well.
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seaguy27
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Post by seaguy27 on Apr 3, 2012 14:48:19 GMT -5
Good for Prince doing it I say. He had to go on a tour and work his butt off to market his album instead of sitting on his rear and letting a radio station spin his song or let the label promote it.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Apr 3, 2012 14:50:04 GMT -5
^No. Since HITS announced her estimated first week number, there's been a lot of talk about her 2nd week fall. Right... chart watchers are speculating on how it will chart. It's obvious that Madonna won't be able to claim a second week at #1 for a multitude of reasons. I don't see why it's offensive if chart watchers want to predict and analyse what will happen. Yes, but why can't we enjoy the #1 debut? Why do people immediately go to the negative? The 2nd week fall... That's just the society we live in now. We want drama, fights, the negative...
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asg4
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Post by asg4 on Apr 3, 2012 14:51:16 GMT -5
Good for Prince doing it I say. He had to go on a tour and work his butt off to market his album instead of sitting on his rear and letting a radio station spin his song or let the label promote it. Prince also had 1+mil of real sales from that album and 1+mill of giveaways
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 3, 2012 14:51:33 GMT -5
Prince's album was given to concertgoers at the concert, though- no choice in the matter. That's what prompted the change in the rule.
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seaguy27
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Post by seaguy27 on Apr 3, 2012 14:52:01 GMT -5
The funny thing is , is that in this article and I have heard many other people state this. Why is Madonna able to get such a higher number of redemptions compared to other artist were it added so little to their sales??? Could it be because these people were going to get the album anyway? Hmmmm! I thought Tom Petty had a fairly high percentage of redemptions too. Perhaps the number of tickets sold is the reason the raw number of redemptions is higher. He may have I am posing a question back. Because most people have known about the redemption way before the HITS projection of Madonna sales. Before it came out that Madonna was projected to sell over 300k everyone was saying "oh redemptions barely make a dent blah blah blah. Now that the projection is out everyone is saying that it is huge.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Apr 3, 2012 14:52:43 GMT -5
so lionel has about 200k of real sales according to forbes what will mdna have in real sales. my guess is like 170-180k Friedman does not have access to any kind of official sales numbers. His figures are based on HITS figures. I think Madonna's real sales will be ~220k.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 3, 2012 14:53:39 GMT -5
"Real sales" being those from traditional outlets. :)
I don't believe Billboard reported on the percentage for Petty's album.
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seaguy27
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Post by seaguy27 on Apr 3, 2012 14:55:03 GMT -5
Good for Prince doing it I say. He had to go on a tour and work his butt off to market his album instead of sitting on his rear and letting a radio station spin his song or let the label promote it. Prince also had 1+mil of real sales from that album and 1+mill of giveaways So?? He played within the rules given at the time. It is billboards problem not ours or the artist. Of course there is a difference in handing the cd at a concert to someone having to redeem something. But either way it went to fans who wanted the product. The music industry in the last decade or so is in a constant state of change and how the music is delivered and how it is counted.
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asg4
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Post by asg4 on Apr 3, 2012 14:56:20 GMT -5
I thought Tom Petty had a fairly high percentage of redemptions too. Perhaps the number of tickets sold is the reason the raw number of redemptions is higher. He may have I am posing a question back. Because most people have known about the redemption way before the HITS projection of Madonna sales. Before it came out that Madonna was projected to sell over 300k everyone was saying "oh redemptions barely make a dent blah blah blah. Now that the projection is out everyone is saying that it is huge. I didnt know about redemptions but did know about the add on option used by bon jovi which meant u had to use real cash and not monopoly money to buy the album. The redemption rate went up due to the Pit tixs giveaway and allowing up to 8 cds per person
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 3, 2012 14:57:54 GMT -5
Shortly after the Super Bowl, HITS commented that MDNA could do north of 300K in its first week. Just a matter of moments before HITS' final numbers come in,
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 3, 2012 14:58:55 GMT -5
CHART DATE: 04/02/2012 LAST UPDATE: 04/03/2012 13:56:38 NOW IN: FINAL LW TW artist / album label power index % change -- 1 MADONNA INTERSCOPE 357,943 -- MDNA -- 2 LIONEL RICHIE MERCURY NASHVILLE 200,095 -- TUSKEGEE 2 3 ADELE XL/COLUMBIA 124,090 -5% 21 -- 4 SHINEDOWN ATLANTIC 104,165 -- AMARYLLIS 1 5 HUNGER GAMES: SONGS FROM DISTRIC UNIVERSAL REPUBLIC 57,222 -68% SOUNDTRACK 4 6 ONE DIRECTION SYCO/COLUMBIA 48,534 -11% UP ALL NIGHT -- 7 KATY PERRY CAPITOL/EMI 33,802 -- TEENAGE DREAM -- 8 THE USED HOPELESS 27,715 -- VUNERABLE 6 9 BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN COLUMBIA 26,997 -26% WRECKING BALL 16 10 LUKE BRYAN CAPITOL NASHVILLE/EMI 24,811 +38% TAILGATES & TANLINES 9 11 NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL MUSIC 41 CAPITOL/EMI 24,003 -8% VARIOUS ARTISTS 8 12 WHITNEY HOUSTON RCA 23,552 -17% WHITNEY - THE GREATEST HITS 3 13 SHINS COLUMBIA 22,747 -67% PORT OF MORROW 13 14 GOTYE FAIRFAX/UNIV REPUBLIC 22,348 +7% MAKING MIRRORS -- 15 MARS VOLTA WARNER BROS. 18,811 -- NOCTOURNIQUET 12 16 FUN. FUELED BY RAMEN 18,087 -16% SOME NIGHTS -- 17 ALL-AMERICAN REJECTS INTERSCOPE 17,619 -- KIDS IN THE STREET 14 18 ADELE XL/COLUMBIA 17,575 -11% 19 -- 19 SCOTTY MCCREERY MERC NASH/19/INTERSCOPE 17,510 -- CLEAR AS DAY 17 20 SHAKE IT UP: LIVE 2 DANCE WALT DISNEY 17,449 +1% SOUNDTRACK 15 21 DRAKE YM/CM/UNIVERSAL REPUBLIC 16,943 -9% TAKE CARE 19 22 RIHANNA DEF JAM/IDJ 16,766 +2% TALK THAT TALK 23 23 JASON ALDEAN BROKEN BOW 15,868 +14% MY KINDA PARTY 7 24 MELANIE FIONA SRC/UNIVERSAL REPUBLIC 15,766 -51% THE MF LIFE 29 25 ERIC CHURCH CAPITOL NASHVILLE/EMI 15,064 +27% CHIEF 18 26 KELLY CLARKSON 19/RCA 14,754 -15% STRONGER 26 27 LMFAO INTERSCOPE 14,631 +15% SORRY FOR PARTY ROCKING 27 28 LADY ANTEBELLUM CAPITOL NASHVILLE/EMI 13,714 +11% OWN THE NIGHT -- 29 MY DARKEST DAYS MERCURY 13,432 -- SICK & TWISTED AFFAIR 20 30 TYGA CASH MONEY/UNIV REPUBLIC 13,401 -15% CARELESS WORLD 22 31 BLACK KEYS NONESUCH 12,311 -19% EL CAMINO 44 32 THE CIVIL WARS SENSIBILITY MUSIC 12,034 +52% BARTON HOLLOW 31 33 SKRILLEX BIG BEAT 11,174 -4% BANGARANG 5 34 ODD FUTURE COLUMBIA/RED 10,774 -74% OF TAPE, VOL. 2 -- 35 DAVID GUETTA CAPITOL/EMI 10,262 -- NOTHING BUT THE BEAT 41 36 KIDZ BOP KIDS RAZOR & TIE 9,877 +17% KIDZ BOP 21 -- 37 BLAKE SHELTON WARNER BROS. NASHVILLE 9,788 -- RED RIVER BLUE 50 38 FLORENCE + THE MACHINE UNIVERSAL REPUBLIC 9,726 +33% CEREMONIALS 32 39 YOUNG JEEZY DEF JAM/IDJ 9,719 -10% TM 103: HUSTLER AMBITION -- 40 MESHUGGA NUCLEAR BLAST AMERICA 9,686 -- KOLOSS 48 41 MIRANDA LAMBERT RCA NASHVILLE 9,485 +27% FOUR THE RECORD -- 42 FRESH BEAT BAND NICKELODEON/LEGACY 9,350 -- MUSIC FROM THE HIT TV SHOW -- 43 HUNGER GAMES: ORIGINAL SCORE UNIVERSAL REPUBLIC 9,180 -- JAMES NEWTON HOWARD 34 44 NICKELBACK ROADRUNNER 9,147 -1% HERE AND NOW 46 45 THE BAND PERRY REPUBLIC NASHVILLE 9,103 +19% THE BAND PERRY 39 46 BRANTLEY GILBERT BIG MACHINE 9,005 +3% HALFWAY TO HEAVEN 25 47 LANA DEL REY INTERSCOPE 8,938 -35% BORN TO DIE 47 48 JAY Z & KANYE WEST ROC-A-FELLA/ROC NATION 8,596 +14% WATCH THE THRONE -- 49 E-40 HEAVY ON GRIND/ELS 8,451 -- BLOCK BROCHURE, VOL. 1: WELCOME -- 50 E-40 HEAVY ON GRIND/ELS 8,424 --
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2012 15:00:32 GMT -5
Of course the- ahem- esteemed Mr. Friedman got it wrong, saying that ticket buyers automatically get the album- they have to take action to get it. And, of course, he doesn't speculate that the ticket prices may include the mere $9-$10 for the clean/standard version. I wouldn't expect anything less from him, though. How did he get it "wrong"? He posted the wording from the Ticketmaster site that is advertising the 'promotion.' The wording from the Ticketmaster site that he posted says nothing about how the 'ticket prices may include the mere $9-$10 for the clean/standard version.' In all of the Billboard and Forbes articles I've read thus far, not once did any of them say anything close to 'Madonna's ticket sale prices were raised to cover the cost of the CDs given out.' The only place I have read that is from Madonna fans on this message board. That statement is also not mentioned by Ticketmaster who proudly advertised Madonna's "promotion." Here it is, again: Here’s the wording from Ticketmaster’s website: Get “MDNA” with your Ticket- Madonna is having a huge party and everyone’s invited. For every ticket purchased online, you’ll receive your choice of a digital or physical copy of Madonna’s new album MDNA. Prior to the album release on 3/26, you’ll receive an email from Ticketmaster with redemption instructions. If you purchase your tickets on or after 3/26, you’ll receive your email within 48 hours. Offer is valid for United States residents & events only. Please note: This offer is not valid for tickets purchased through Official Platinum Seats or TicketExchange.
Again, he posted what was on the Ticketmaster site. How is he "wrong"? Is he only "wrong" because what he said about Madonna's sales wasn't overly positive? Was the writer supposed to make something up, or "speculate," to create a scenario where this "promotion" makes Madonna look good?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2012 15:01:28 GMT -5
I thought Tom Petty had a fairly high percentage of redemptions too. Perhaps the number of tickets sold is the reason the raw number of redemptions is higher. He may have I am posing a question back. Because most people have known about the redemption way before the HITS projection of Madonna sales. Before it came out that Madonna was projected to sell over 300k everyone was saying "oh redemptions barely make a dent blah blah blah. Now that the projection is out everyone is saying that it is huge. I can't speak for everyone, but I can say that the HITS prediction did not make me change my mind in a negative way. I felt that way when I first heard of this "promotion." When the Billboard article came out that announced a "significant" part of Madonna's sales were coming from the "promotion," that is what solidified my opinion about the "promotion." Now, Forbes is posting the actual wording of the Ticketmaster "promotion" and it appears to be just what I said previously - it's a giveaway, not a "promotion."
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Apr 3, 2012 15:02:43 GMT -5
^OMG. Do you really care that much? I swear you are about to write a 20 page term paper on this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2012 15:03:07 GMT -5
If this were Rascal Flatts rather than Madonna at the center of the ticket promotion "scandal", would there be such an uproar?
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 3, 2012 15:03:57 GMT -5
^Of course it didn't say that, Music. I stated several pages back that that speculation regarding the ticket prices including cost of the album is jjust that- just as it is for someone to say they're "free." And, I'm well aware of the wording, but thanks. :) Music, I know you do post things other than Shania, but I must say your interest in this particular week and number of posts is astounding. 2m- likely not.
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seaguy27
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Post by seaguy27 on Apr 3, 2012 15:07:50 GMT -5
If this were Rascal Flatts rather than Madonna at the center of the ticket promotion "scandal", would there be such an uproar? I wouldn't, I would say "get those sales you Rascal."
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