Billboard 200 4/14/12 - Madonna #1 359K

[areyoureadytojump]

Apr 4, 2012 9:47:50 GMT -5 @cosmiccandy said:

asg4-i agree, the exact break down shouldn't be a secret

Who said it was a secret?

It might be against SoundScan policy to release that information.

[Deleted]

Week 1 sales are obviously a bit inflated over what they would have been with the concert promo. We could guess at the number probably next week when we see week 2 numbers that do not have the concert promo effect

[areyoureadytojump]

www.billboard.com/#/news/madonna-tops-billboard-200-shinedown-has-1006662752.story

Madonna Tops Billboard 200, Shinedown Has Its Best Week Ever
by Keith Caulfield, L.A.

As earlier reported, Madonna's "MDNA" and Lionel Richie's "Tuskegee" bow at Nos. 1 and 2 this week on the Billboard 200 albums chart, selling 359,000 and 199,000 copies, respectively (according to Nielsen SoundScan).

Madonna has now etched No. 1 albums in the '80s, '00s and '10s. She missed scoring a No. 1 in the 1990s, remarkably, but she did claim five No. 2 albums in that decade with "I'm Breathless," "The Immaculate Collection," "Erotica," the "Evita" soundtrack and "Ray of Light."

Adele's "21" slips one rung to No. 3 with 121,000 (down 7%) while rock band Shinedown has its best week ever at a career-high No. 4 with the arrival of "Amaryllis." The set starts with 106,000 -- the act's best sales week yet. Shinedown's previous high came in 2008, when "The Sound of Madness" debuted and peaked at No. 8 with 50,000.

Last week's No. 1 album, "The Hunger Games" soundtrack, slips to No. 5 with 64,000 (down 64%) while One Direction's "Up All Night" falls 4-6 with 46,000 (down 16%). The latter's erosion was eased by the act's performance on the Nickelodeon "Kids' Choice Awards" on March 31.

Katy Perry's deluxe reissue of her "Teenage Dream" album, dubbed "Teenage Dream: The Complete Confection," spurs the set 31-7 with 33,000 (up 190%). It's the album's highest rank since the Feb. 5, 2011 chart and its best sales frame since Christmas.

The Used's "Vulnerable" takes a bow at No. 8 with 32,000, marking the rock group's fourth top 10 album. It follows 2009's "Artwork," which debuted at peaked at No. 10 with 35,000.

Rounding out the top 10 on the albums chart are Bruce Springsteen's "Wrecking Ball" (6-9 with 28,000; down 26%) and the "Now 41" compilation (8-10 with 25,000; down 18%).

Over on the Digital Songs chart, Justin Bieber's "Boyfriend" storms in at No. 1, selling 521,000 downloads, while last week's leader, fun.'s "We Are Young" (featuring Janelle Monae), falls to No. 2 with 364,000 (down 6%).

Gotye's "Somebody That I Used to Know" (featuring Kimbra) is pushed back 2-3 despite a gain (244,000; up 17%) while Nicki Minaj's "Starships" rises 5-4 with 204,000 (up 17%).

One Direction's "What Makes You Beautiful" jumps 7-5 (199,000; up 22%), Flo Rida's "Wild Ones" (featuring Sia) holds at No. 6 (184,000; up 9%) and Carly Rae Jepsen's "Call Me Maybe" steps 9-7 (182,000; up 32%).

The Wanted's "Glad You Came" descends 3-8 (169,000; down 8%), Kelly Clarkson's "Stronger (What Doesn't Kill You)" slides 8-9 (137,000; down 9%) and Katy Perry's "Part of Me" rises 11-10 (122,000; up 6%).

Overall album sales in this past chart week (ending April 1) totaled 6.16 million units, up 13% compared to the sum last week (5.46 million) and down 7% compared to the comparable sales week of 2011 (6.63 million). Year to date album sales stand at 77.84 million, up less than 1% compared to the same total at this point last year (77.83 million).

Digital track sales this past week totaled 26.68 million downloads, up 4% compared to last week (25.62 million) and up 9% stacked next to the comparable week of 2011 (24.52 million). Year to date track sales are at 361.32 million, up 7% compared to the same total at this point last year (339.12 million).

Next week's Billboard 200 competes with the same week in 2011 when: Adele's "21" returned to No. 1 with 88,000 (down 6%) and the previous week's leader, Britney Spears' "Femme Fatale," fell to No. 2 with 75,000 (down 73%). The chart's highest debut was at No. 4, where Hollywood Undead's "American Tragedy" started with 66,000.

[gracelessheart]

It appears based on that article, MDNA would have debuted at number one without the redemptions. If it sold 124k digitally, which I assume includes pre-orders and people who purchased that format during the week, the digital redemptions wouldn't have made a large enough difference to affect chart position.

If I remember correctly, concert ticket purchasers could also have a physical copy mailed to them though. But I doubt that accounted for a large portion of the over 200k physical copies moved during the week. Seems Madonna would have came out on top anyway.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Actually I do have a question about the redemptions now. it's a legitimate question so I'd rather someone who can't handle questioning something to stay away.

When you buy an album, the money from that retailer goes to the label, right? So when Born This Way, for example, other other majorly discounted digital albums get bought, the retailer pays their full price for that album to the label, whether at a loss or otherwise. So when someone buys a concert ticket, it's assumed that a portion of that ($9 or whatever) is used to cover the album. In this case, the retailer is Ticketmaster? Now, what happens to the money of every album that doesn't get redeemed? Is it put aside until the ticket holder decides to redeem it? And then sent to the label? Or does the label hold on to it until it gets redeemed, essentially having extra money that may or may not account for a sale? I ask because Billboard's rule is that free albums don't count. Therefore, it's assumed that every ticket sold does come with a CD sale, it just depends on whether the customer picks it up or not. So why only count the albums that pass through rather than the ones paid for (i.e.all of them) unless the album is an added bonus, therefore suggesting it's free and voiding those numbers for counting?
It also leads me to wonder how soundscan/billboard deal with coupons. If an artist who wanted to give their CD away for free through coupons did so, would those "sales" count?

I want to add that I'm not questioning the legitimacy of Madonna's numbers. I don't think she played beyond the playing field at all. I just want to understand how it works because I think new methods are fascinating.

[asg4]

Apr 4, 2012 10:03:45 GMT -5 gracelessheart said:

It appears based on that article, MDNA would have debuted at number one without the redemptions. If it sold 124k digitally, which I assume includes pre-orders and people who purchased that format during the week, the digital redemptions wouldn't have made a large enough difference to affect chart position.

If I remember correctly, concert ticket purchasers could also have a physical copy mailed to them though. But I doubt that accounted for a large portion of the over 200k physical copies moved during the week. Seems Madonna would have came out on top anyway.

I am thinking the same. I think she did 240-260k in real sales

[Deleted]

I think the sales are all "real", yes it would be fun to know the break down but the first week sales are what they are.

The concert ticket people shelled out money for Madonna just like those that bought the album without seeing the concert

[asg4]

Apr 4, 2012 10:04:20 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Actually I do have a question about the redemptions now. it's a legitimate question so I'd rather someone who can't handle questioning something to stay away.

When you buy an album, the money from that retailer goes to the label, right? So when Born This Way, for example, other other majorly discounted digital albums get bought, the retailer pays their full price for that album to the label, whether at a loss or otherwise. So when someone buys a concert ticket, it's assumed that a portion of that ($9 or whatever) is used to cover the album. In this case, the retailer is Ticketmaster? Now, what happens to the money of every album that doesn't get redeemed? Is it put aside until the ticket holder decides to redeem it? And then sent to the label? Or does the label hold on to it until it gets redeemed, essentially having extra money that may or may not account for a sale? I ask because Billboard's rule is that free albums don't count. Therefore, it's assumed that every ticket sold does come with a CD sale, it just depends on whether the customer picks it up or not. So why only count the albums that pass through rather than the ones paid for (i.e.all of them) unless the album is an added bonus, therefore suggesting it's free and voiding those numbers for counting?
It also leads me to wonder how soundscan/billboard deal with coupons. If an artist who wanted to give their CD away for free through coupons did so, would those "sales" count?

I want to add that I'm not questioning the legitimacy of Madonna's numbers. I don't think she played beyond the playing field at all. I just want to understand how it works because I think new methods are fascinating.

when prince did the free give aways no money changed hands whats he had was a purely distribution deal with the label( I think sony) He paid for the making of the record since he never uses songwriters and has self produced every single album it doesnt cost him much.
I remember him saying at the time all the big 4 can distribute the album at the same time.
Then he did a deal with AEG. AEG paid for the cost of manufacturing which wont amount to much coz it was just a cd with a very simple sleve. How much does a cd cost to manufacture maybe 50cent or less.
Sony was unaware he was going to giveaway cds

[areyoureadytojump]

Apr 4, 2012 10:04:20 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Actually I do have a question about the redemptions now. it's a legitimate question so I'd rather someone who can't handle questioning something to stay away.

When you buy an album, the money from that retailer goes to the label, right? So when Born This Way, for example, other other majorly discounted digital albums get bought, the retailer pays their full price for that album to the label, whether at a loss or otherwise. So when someone buys a concert ticket, it's assumed that a portion of that ($9 or whatever) is used to cover the album. In this case, the retailer is Ticketmaster? Now, what happens to the money of every album that doesn't get redeemed? Is it put aside until the ticket holder decides to redeem it? And then sent to the label? Or does the label hold on to it until it gets redeemed, essentially having extra money that may or may not account for a sale? I ask because Billboard's rule is that free albums don't count. Therefore, it's assumed that every ticket sold does come with a CD sale, it just depends on whether the customer picks it up or not. So why only count the albums that pass through rather than the ones paid for (i.e.all of them) unless the album is an added bonus, therefore suggesting it's free and voiding those numbers for counting?
It also leads me to wonder how soundscan/billboard deal with coupons. If an artist who wanted to give their CD away for free through coupons did so, would those "sales" count?

I want to add that I'm not questioning the legitimacy of Madonna's numbers. I don't think she played beyond the playing field at all. I just want to understand how it works because I think new methods are fascinating.

Good questions, but you'll probably never get an answer. That's the internal accounting of Ticketmaster/LiveNation/Interscope

[esoteric76]

Apr 4, 2012 10:55:58 GMT -5 areyoureadytojump said:

Apr 4, 2012 10:04:20 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Actually I do have a question about the redemptions now. it's a legitimate question so I'd rather someone who can't handle questioning something to stay away.

Good questions, but you'll probably never get an answer. That's the internal accounting of Ticketmaster/LiveNation/Interscope

You might want to field your question to some of the people over at the Velvetrope website. There are a lot of industry vets over there who might be able to shed light on this deal.

[asg4]

Apr 4, 2012 10:55:58 GMT -5 areyoureadytojump said:

Apr 4, 2012 10:04:20 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Actually I do have a question about the redemptions now. it's a legitimate question so I'd rather someone who can't handle questioning something to stay away.

When you buy an album, the money from that retailer goes to the label, right? So when Born This Way, for example, other other majorly discounted digital albums get bought, the retailer pays their full price for that album to the label, whether at a loss or otherwise. So when someone buys a concert ticket, it's assumed that a portion of that ($9 or whatever) is used to cover the album. In this case, the retailer is Ticketmaster? Now, what happens to the money of every album that doesn't get redeemed? Is it put aside until the ticket holder decides to redeem it? And then sent to the label? Or does the label hold on to it until it gets redeemed, essentially having extra money that may or may not account for a sale? I ask because Billboard's rule is that free albums don't count. Therefore, it's assumed that every ticket sold does come with a CD sale, it just depends on whether the customer picks it up or not. So why only count the albums that pass through rather than the ones paid for (i.e.all of them) unless the album is an added bonus, therefore suggesting it's free and voiding those numbers for counting?
It also leads me to wonder how soundscan/billboard deal with coupons. If an artist who wanted to give their CD away for free through coupons did so, would those "sales" count?

I want to add that I'm not questioning the legitimacy of Madonna's numbers. I don't think she played beyond the playing field at all. I just want to understand how it works because I think new methods are fascinating.

Good questions, but you'll probably never get an answer. That's the internal accounting of Ticketmaster/LiveNation/Interscope

but there r royalty payments to be made to songwriters producers so they must be a formal arrangement

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

So then I wonder if the songwriters and other personel get paid for every concert ticket sold as well or does the money only get to them once a CD has been redeemed? In which case, the label is sitting on potentially tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of albums that might never get redeemed.

[areyoureadytojump]

^It might have more to do with shipments.

They get paid for shipments and not actual sales.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Hmmm, true. I guess there's a whole block of CDs sitting in the warehouse that have a giant "concert redemptions" tag on them while the others are labeled "Wal Mart", "Target", etc, that get counted once they pass through the door.

(I'm not being sarcastic. I'm actually envisioning a warehouse full of MDNAs with labels on where they're for with a guy at the front with a clipboard checking off the ones that are sent off to account for the shipment totals).

[Deleted]

Apr 4, 2012 10:04:20 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Actually I do have a question about the redemptions now. it's a legitimate question so I'd rather someone who can't handle questioning something to stay away.

When you buy an album, the money from that retailer goes to the label, right? So when Born This Way, for example, other other majorly discounted digital albums get bought, the retailer pays their full price for that album to the label, whether at a loss or otherwise. So when someone buys a concert ticket, it's assumed that a portion of that ($9 or whatever) is used to cover the album. In this case, the retailer is Ticketmaster? Now, what happens to the money of every album that doesn't get redeemed? Is it put aside until the ticket holder decides to redeem it? And then sent to the label? Or does the label hold on to it until it gets redeemed, essentially having extra money that may or may not account for a sale? I ask because Billboard's rule is that free albums don't count. Therefore, it's assumed that every ticket sold does come with a CD sale, it just depends on whether the customer picks it up or not. So why only count the albums that pass through rather than the ones paid for (i.e.all of them) unless the album is an added bonus, therefore suggesting it's free and voiding those numbers for counting?
It also leads me to wonder how soundscan/billboard deal with coupons. If an artist who wanted to give their CD away for free through coupons did so, would those "sales" count?

I want to add that I'm not questioning the legitimacy of Madonna's numbers. I don't think she played beyond the playing field at all. I just want to understand how it works because I think new methods are fascinating.

We will likely never know the true honest answers behind those questions and the question(s) regarding how many copies were given out as part of the "promotion."

Articles have reported a "No immediate comment" response from those behind the Madonna "promotion."

Here is one of those articles:

Madonna’s ‘MDNA’ Tops Billboard Chart After First Week

By Andy Fixmer - Apr 4, 2012 12:00 AM ET

Madonna’s “MDNA” sold 359,000 copies in its first week, giving the pop star her eighth No. 1 Billboard 200 debut album and best retail performance in 12 years, as some concert fans got the album with ticket purchases.

“MDNA” sold 28 percent more copies in its first week than Madonna’s last album, 2008’s “Hard Candy,” Nielsen SoundScan said yesterday in an e-mailed statement. Madonna is signed with Live Nation Entertainment Inc. (LYV) and releases her music through Interscope Records, a unit of Vivendi SA (VIV)’s Universal Music.

U.S. buyers of tickets to Madonna’s 66-date worldwide tour could choose to receive “MDNA” as part of their purchase, Nielsen SoundScan said. Billboard counts those as sales. Jon Bon Jovi and Tom Petty used similar promotions, leading to No. 1 and No. 2 debuts, respectively, on the Billboard 200 chart.

“Sales were aided by a successful album-sales promotion involving Madonna’s upcoming world tour,” said Nielsen SoundScan, which supplies Billboard’s data.

The tour starts May 29 in Tel Aviv.

Live Nation, based in Beverly Hills, California, had no immediate comment. The world’s biggest concert promoter, Live Nation acquired Ticketmaster, the world’s largest ticket retailer, in 2010.

Madonna signed an accord with Live Nation in 2007 that covers new releases, concerts and merchandise. In December, the artist and Live Nation reached an agreement with Interscope Records to release “MDNA” and two more albums.

Album sales have climbed 1 percent this year, according to Nielsen SoundScan. “MDNA” is the biggest debut of 2012, while Adele’s “21,” released in 2011, sold 730,000 copies the week after the Grammy awards show in February.

Live Nation fell 1.5 percent to $9.21 yesterday in New York. The shares have gained 11 percent this year.

To contact the reporter on this story: Andy Fixmer in Los Angeles at [e-mail]

To contact the editor responsible for this story: Anthony Palazzo at [e-mail]


Source

Source # 2

2007 Article - Madonna signs huge Live Nation deal

[asg4]

If the give aways r kept secret a good guess will be do a standard 70% drop from the second week figures. That i think would be fairly accurate. Did i also read in the Hits thread that billboard will only count 1st week of redemptions. This was an article from billboard.

[Oprah]

It's not as if they just gave the CD away, the price of the album was included in the ticket sale and even then, people had a choice to accept it or not. I can't wrap my head around how upset people are getting over this.

[asg4]

Apr 4, 2012 14:01:35 GMT -5 Oprah said:

It's not as if they just gave the CD away, the price of the album was included in the ticket sale and even then, people had a choice to accept it or not. I can't wrap my head around how upset people are getting over this.

Prince used the same argument " price of the album was included in the ticket sale" to "sell' 1 million extra albums and stay in the top 5 for 7 months. which is not really possible to do.

[Oprah]

What part of this:

people had a choice to accept it or not

is so hard to understand? jw.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Apr 4, 2012 14:01:35 GMT -5 Oprah said:

It's not as if they just gave the CD away, the price of the album was included in the ticket sale and even then, people had a choice to accept it or not. I can't wrap my head around how upset people are getting over this.

I'm personally not upset. I'm just wondering how it worked out when it came to the actual transaction and how those numbers were allowed into the total number. That's all. Just because someone questions something, doesn't mean they're upset.

I think I'm actually more upset that Madonna didn't get any #1 albums in the 2000s. It would be great to read about her getting #1s in four decades rather than the three she's got.

[Deleted]

MADGE’S TWO ON THE AISLE: Madonna’s Interscope album, MDNA, which debuted at #1, racking up a year-best 358k first-week sales, benefited from a Ticketmaster bundling with concert tour tickets that added up to almost half of the total, according to the N.Y. Post. Those additional “sales” were the difference in finishing ahead of Lionel Richie who scored his best first week of the SoundScan era with nearly 200k for his country collaboration, Tuskegee. While SoundScan had made an “opt-in” offer for an album when purchasing a concert ticket mandatory to count “sales” in the wake of a previous Prince promotion, insiders insist that the consumer choosing to use a supplied redemption code satisfied that requirement. Other sources claimed the consumer being offered the option of either a “digital” or “physical” copy was sufficient. An inside source told the Post: “While the public may view it as free, [the album is] actually bundled into the price of the ticket.” (4/4p)


HITS

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

*Pulse explodes* :(

[asg4]

Congratulations to Lionel for having a #1 album some 45 yrs into his career

[Oprah]

Right, because an article from the rumor mill citing contradictory unnamed sources holds water.

[closeyoureyes]

Is no one going to warn asg4 for being so instigating and unnecessarily smug? Just wondering. Virtually every Madonna fan was warned, as was STFan.

[Deleted]

All this says that if not for the ticket sales, Lionel Richie would be #1

so - we knew that already I thought

[closeyoureyes]

OH LOL... I just read the article.

THE NEW YORK POST... SAYS IT ALL.

Btw, the official figure of 124,000 DIGITAL sales contradicts this article. Moving along.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

How do we know who's been warned and who hasn't? Is there a leak amongst the moderating staff?

[closeyoureyes]

Apr 4, 2012 14:46:24 GMT -5 @2m said:

All this says that if not for the ticket sales, Lionel Richie would be #1

so - we knew that already I thought

Actually it doesn't. It cites the New York Post as a source, and we all know that the Post - bless it's heart, is a tabloid. We already got official digital sales figures which were at 124,000. That would mean that Madonna only sold about 100k in physical album sales. Not likely that she sold more digital albums than physical when I don't think that's ever been the case for anyone.

[closeyoureyes]

Apr 4, 2012 14:46:47 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

How do we know who's been warned and who hasn't? Is there a leak amongst the moderating staff?

I was warned (and ripped to shreds by half of this board), STFan was warned, areyoureadytojump was warned... I'm just asking why asg4 hasn't been, that's all. Not trying to start anything either. I think if I uphold the rules, he should too.