Ragin
6x Platinum Member
Everybody Wants a Piece of the Action!!!
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 6,487
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Post by Ragin on Jun 11, 2012 5:27:39 GMT -5
SoundScan has always done this. You could never post it's sales figures without permission. It's not gonna change anything as far as their business is concerned. I have never understood why the music industry in general is s obtuse when it comes to certain aspects of generating income. For example, don't they realize that by allowing or turning a blind eye to certain things like postings on this board, that it actually helps generate interest and that MORE people will probably buy subscriptions when they can see the value of their product? Oh well. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2012 6:16:37 GMT -5
Subscription rates are well beyond what any music consumer can afford. For income levels of more than 99% of the country, these sort of prices becomes an investment rather than an entertainment expense. (10 bucks on a CD is an entertainment expense, 10,000 bucks on a single list so you can view <insert your favorite> sales levels is an investment. So why would you ant a subscription unless you had a vested interest in the success of the artist.
And really most of us, aside from entertainment value, do not.
The market for theor product is the industry. Companies that do have a vested interest in sales levels. Companies that can pay subscription levels.
Why would a company pay 10,000 dollars for a list if a blogger or hacker can distribute it for free?. Soundscan will lose money. Subcription levels won't rise because the prices they charge are outside the budget of the average music fan.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Jun 11, 2012 9:24:41 GMT -5
Great. Another lecture from 2m...
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2012 9:30:58 GMT -5
Great. Another lecture from 2m... Great. More unnecessary commentary that adds no value and is likely placed just to incite an argument. |
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Honeymoon
3x Platinum Member
Joined: November 2006
Posts: 3,256
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Post by Honeymoon on Jun 11, 2012 11:36:51 GMT -5
Yes passive aggressive comments are never helpful. Either respond to the post constructively or ignore it.
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Houster
Charting
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 305
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Post by Houster on Jun 11, 2012 22:49:37 GMT -5
I've recently read that a full Soundscan subscription costs nearly $30,000 per year. So its not an entertainment expense.
While I think Soundscan is being heavy-handed, I can see the other side of the coin.
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on Jun 12, 2012 1:13:58 GMT -5
I'm not even convinced what soundscan is doing here is legal. I guess until they are challenged they can somewhat get away with it in the short run but not in the long run.
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3m3r7c
Charting
Joined: April 2010
Posts: 266
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Post by 3m3r7c on Jun 12, 2012 2:39:32 GMT -5
Since sales aren't allowed here anymore would somebody help me out and let me know of another site they are posted weekly (either in here or a private message) other than ukmix. No sales were posted there this week either so I think unfortunately maybe they are not allowed to post either (but I'm not sure about that).
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2012 7:04:25 GMT -5
I'm not even convinced what soundscan is doing here is legal. I guess until they are challenged they can somewhat get away with it in the short run but not in the long run. Technically, posting Billboard data could be illegal too since that is copyright protected as well |
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asg4
Platinum Member
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Posts: 1,102
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Post by asg4 on Jun 12, 2012 8:43:15 GMT -5
I'm not even convinced what soundscan is doing here is legal. I guess until they are challenged they can somewhat get away with it in the short run but not in the long run. Technically, posting Billboard data could be illegal too since that is copyright protected as well Establish a forum say in poland and sound-scan wont touch it |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jun 12, 2012 11:06:56 GMT -5
I don't think it's actual sales numbers that are illegal. Just ones that come from soundscan. You can still discuss ones mentioned in news articles and the like while using them as a source. Just no more public gathering of them. I guess if you want to being up a specific sales number, include a link to the source every single time. Redundant, sure, but it makes good practice either way and adds credibility?
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Jun 12, 2012 11:43:28 GMT -5
I'm not even convinced what soundscan is doing here is legal. I guess until they are challenged they can somewhat get away with it in the short run but not in the long run. Technically, posting Billboard data could be illegal too since that is copyright protected as well 2m, are you trying to kill the Billboard 200 thread? According to you, we shouldn't post anything! Enough. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2012 12:51:36 GMT -5
Technically, posting Billboard data could be illegal too since that is copyright protected as well 2m, are you trying to kill the Billboard 200 thread? According to you, we shouldn't post anything! Enough. Mr Jump sir Please see pulsemusic.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=announcements&action=display&thread=116782For what you can't post. Instead of commenting negatively about everything I post in this thread, please try the 'Report to Mod' button Or send me a PM if you'd like and we can discuss it there. |
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3m3r7c
Charting
Joined: April 2010
Posts: 266
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Post by 3m3r7c on Jun 12, 2012 14:50:38 GMT -5
Any other sites that regularly post other than ukmix? There has to be some out there that don't have these rules...please help
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Post by ListenToItTwice on Jun 12, 2012 14:52:07 GMT -5
^ My guess is that UKMix doesn't have the rule, but just didn't get a chart leak this week. They didn't initially get one two weeks ago, either.
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3m3r7c
Charting
Joined: April 2010
Posts: 266
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Post by 3m3r7c on Jun 12, 2012 14:58:41 GMT -5
Ahh that is true 2 weeks ago it came very late. Maybe this week it just wasn't released. If they are still allowed to post it (being a European site) all will be okay :) thanks for the response
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badrobot
3x Platinum Member
Joined: November 2006
Posts: 3,392
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Post by badrobot on Jun 12, 2012 15:04:37 GMT -5
For most people, all it takes is a cease-and-desist letter from a SS or BB laywer to get them to stop sharing. If you notice a frequent provider of such data suddenly stops sharing it, it's possible they received such a letter.
I received one once, years ago, for a Madonna site I operated. I stopped sharing a lot of data.
Legally such a letter doesn't actually obligate you to do anything, it's really just a warning, and often they probably would not bother to actually prosecute as it's quite expensive for them. But, who wants to take the chance of being on the receiving end of a lawsuit?
Sometimes you get data, sometimes you don't. If it's out there on the internet at all, it'll probably end up on Pulse.
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Rodze
2x Platinum Member
Joined: August 2008
Posts: 2,546 
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Post by Rodze on Jun 12, 2012 17:30:55 GMT -5
Technically, posting Billboard data could be illegal too since that is copyright protected as well 2m, are you trying to kill the Billboard 200 thread? According to you, we shouldn't post anything! Enough. 2m is right, though. Even a mere Billboard article that gets copied and pasted here in its entirety is a violation of their copyrights and subject to legal action. It's just that normally nobody cares until they're threatened. |
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Jun 13, 2012 9:25:32 GMT -5
Yes passive aggressive comments are never helpful. Either respond to the post constructively or ignore it. You want constructive? I am TIRED of reading 2m's endless posts whenever there is a controversy here at Pulse. He feels like he has to explain it over and over and over again. One or 2 posts is enough. Other have complained about it. 2m is extremely knowledgeable and a respected poster here, but he needs to know when to stop. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2012 9:36:00 GMT -5
Yes passive aggressive comments are never helpful. Either respond to the post constructively or ignore it. You want constructive? I am TIRED of reading 2m's endless posts whenever there is a controversy here at Pulse. He feels like he has to explain it over and over and over again. One or 2 posts is enough. Other have complained about it. 2m is extremely knowledgeable and a respected poster here, but he needs to know when to stop. Seriously....see the link 'Report to Mod' It is their job to respond to your complaints - not mine, perhaps they can help you. If you want to discuss it with me via PM to see if we can work something out, I can do that too. But the public complaining about me should probably stop |
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Rodze
2x Platinum Member
Joined: August 2008
Posts: 2,546
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Post by Rodze on Jun 13, 2012 10:29:50 GMT -5
The board also has an ignore function, so you're not obligated to read a user's posts if you don't want to (except if they are quoted...).
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slw84
7x Platinum Member
I only tolerate legends
Joined: August 2008
Posts: 7,897
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Post by slw84 on Jun 14, 2012 8:59:59 GMT -5
Omfg...ppl are really catching feelings over a thread...drops Mic
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wavey.
Moderator
Look...
Positive Vibes🙏🏾❤
Joined: August 2006
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Pronouns: He/Him
Staff
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Post by wavey. on Jun 14, 2012 9:06:13 GMT -5
Ya'll two STAY coming at each other!
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Ragin
6x Platinum Member
Everybody Wants a Piece of the Action!!!
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 6,487
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Post by Ragin on Jun 24, 2012 13:14:46 GMT -5
Subscription rates are well beyond what any music consumer can afford. For income levels of more than 99% of the country, these sort of prices becomes an investment rather than an entertainment expense. (10 bucks on a CD is an entertainment expense, 10,000 bucks on a single list so you can view <insert your favorite> sales levels is an investment. So why would you ant a subscription unless you had a vested interest in the success of the artist. And really most of us, aside from entertainment value, do not. The market for theor product is the industry. Companies that do have a vested interest in sales levels. Companies that can pay subscription levels. Why would a company pay 10,000 dollars for a list if a blogger or hacker can distribute it for free?. Soundscan will lose money. Subcription levels won't rise because the prices they charge are outside the budget of the average music fan. Wouldn't that speak even more to the ridiculousness of a cease and desist? This board has a limited audience, and obviously isn't going to keep anybody that can afford (i.e. industry ) from purchasing a subscription if for no other reason than that you don't have enough of the charts and the reliability to make it worthwhile, or to seriously impede what soundscan is doing. Also, by upsetting the applecart so to speak, what's to honestly keep a competitor from just undercutting them? After all, sales are electronic these days and pretty easy to track. Start up costs would be relatively low, and it seems that making a ruckus makes people pay more attention to the racket they have going. Not smart. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2012 14:31:55 GMT -5
And yet, 2m got threatened with a cease and desist for what seemed like a harmless thread that I am sure hardly did any damage to Soundscan's business. It may seem ridiculous to us but if 2m is anything like me he does not have the clout, money, or time to be fighting against a large corporation over a chart on a message board. I don't blame him for being skittish about things at this point, though I do think Billboard is probably not nearly as quick to get their panties in a wad as Soundscan did.
As far as cut-and-paste articles I believe as long as you provide a link to the source it is usually okay even if you post the whole article, so that's not an issue, really.
I wish BB HAD some worthy competitors but they are so heavily regarded as the industry 'standard' that it would take years/decades/centuries before a competitor truly caught up with him. How long has Hits been around, and yet when their sales come out we still say something like "I hope so-and-so still remains in the top 50 when the Billboard chart comes out tomorrow?" We are pretty much acknowledging BB as the only 'official' chart when we do that. And Billboard as far as I know is still the only source for singles sales and streaming.
That other bickering above should stop now.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2012 14:48:33 GMT -5
There used to be Cashbox but they bit the dust years ago.
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