KelownaGuy20
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Post by KelownaGuy20 on Mar 13, 2009 11:27:40 GMT -5
I'm just going to say this: my MD, who just yesterday won the award for small market music director at the Canadian Music and Broadcast Industry awards, says that HotAC is one of the formats that can swing directions.
While CHR is CHR and AC is AC, a HotAC station can be smack dab inbetween the two, but at the same time, it can be more AC, or it can be more CHR than other stations.
Typically, US HotAC stations tend to fall smack dad between the two, but that's due to the abundance of CHR stations across the country. However, here in Canada, where CHR stations are basically found in cities with 300,000 or more people (if that), many HotACs have more liberty to play CHR songs as long as the audience agrees with them.
Anyway, my underlying point is that HotAC doesn't have a set sound. A HotAC station can play "Single Ladies" and "Love Lockdown," and yes, even "Live Your Life" while remaining a HotAC station. You can say that a station like that should be a CHR station for adults, but I hate to say it, but that's what HotAC is... Adult Top 40.
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Mar 13, 2009 23:28:25 GMT -5
I'm just going to say this: my MD, who just yesterday won the award for small market music director at the Canadian Music and Broadcast Industry awards, says that HotAC is one of the formats that can swing directions. While CHR is CHR and AC is AC, a HotAC station can be smack dab inbetween the two, but at the same time, it can be more AC, or it can be more CHR than other stations. Typically, US HotAC stations tend to fall smack dad between the two, but that's due to the abundance of CHR stations across the country. However, here in Canada, where CHR stations are basically found in cities with 300,000 or more people (if that), many HotACs have more liberty to play CHR songs as long as the audience agrees with them. Anyway, my underlying point is that HotAC doesn't have a set sound. A HotAC station can play "Single Ladies" and "Love Lockdown," and yes, even "Live Your Life" while remaining a HotAC station. You can say that a station like that should be a CHR station for adults, but I hate to say it, but that's what HotAC is... Adult Top 40. Exactly. Hot AC is Adult Top 40, so why can't a Hot AC station be a CHR station for adults? Many on this board believe that a Hot AC should only play a lite "alternative" type of music, while people like us believe a Hot AC can utilize a CHR playlist minus the hard core rap and hip-hop. Both types of stations fall under the umbrella of Hot AC which, in turn is the same as an Adult Top 40. And I personally like the CHR lean that the format has become lately because you can only listen to four or five Nickelback and Daughtry clones in a row before people become sick of that sound. That's why I like the variety of hearing some CHR crossovers thrown into the typical Hot AC playlist. Tying this back to Lady Gaga, I'm glad to see this song is doing so well here in the states as it is now up to #13 and climbing on the U.S. Hot AC chart. I'd like to see "Poker Face" do as well, but for the time being, "Just Dance", "Single Ladies" and "Let It Rock" will do just fine. :)
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Mar 14, 2009 12:03:03 GMT -5
A HotAC station can play "Single Ladies" and "Love Lockdown," and yes, even "Live Your Life" while remaining a HotAC station. Yeah really gotta disagree there...if it's playin T. I., Kanye, and Beyonce (in addition to The Fray, Nickelback, Taylor Swift, etc.), it's playin hits from all categories of music, so by def. it's CHR - plus if a "Hot AC" station is gettin great callout from Love Lockdown and Live Your Life, it's prob. targeting 19-39 etc. as opposed to just 25-39, so wouldn't say it's "Top 40 for Adults" and more like an Adult-leaning Top 40 (big difference IMO) Bottom line IMO...if all markets were like Chicago, Detroit, Cincinatti, etc., where Hot AC's are basically CHRs, CHRs would be completely Rhythmic, Rhythmics would be Urban, etc. In other words, Hot AC listeners who complain that CHR plays too much rap and hip-hop IMO are creating their own problem...if you're a CHR programmer in a market where the Hot AC is playin Kanye, T. I., and Beyonce, the only niche for your CHR station is now 12-24 or 12-18, and of course you'll need to play tons of rap and hip-hop just to separate yourself from the Hot AC Not sure where it came up that Hot ACs had to lean Alternative...just IMO there needs to be a reason why they're in the HAC category as opposed to CHR (i. e. they completely focus on songs that appeal to adult listeners, and leave out various genres of music, makin it unfair for them to report to CHR)
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Mar 14, 2009 13:26:20 GMT -5
Exactly. Hot AC is Adult Top 40, so why can't a Hot AC station be a CHR station for adults? Sorry just really concerned that if this trend is continued, major markets will split into CHR stations for adults (labeled as Hot AC) and CHR stations for teens (labeled as CHR)...the CHR chart (which is used as reference for success of most hits) will completely lose its validity, etc. To put it another way IMO, CHR stations for teens are categorized as CHR...so if CHR stations for 20-somethings and adults are categorized as Hot AC, you're gonna have nothin but a rhythmic/teen CHR chart The term "Adult Top 40" (as used by Billboard when Hot AC came out) referred to stations that could not possibly be put on the CHR panel because they completely left out rap, hip-hop, hard rock, etc. - it's kind of a misnomer IMO cause these stations mostly only had 20 or so songs on their playlist, and were extremely non-current focused For example, stations like WRQX/Washington and WPLJ were labeled as "Adult Top 40"...IMO big difference between these and stations like WWMX/Baltimore, WKRQ/Cincinatti, etc. which are more CHR (and even play more currents) than many stations on the CHR panel
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Mar 14, 2009 17:20:50 GMT -5
Exactly. Hot AC is Adult Top 40, so why can't a Hot AC station be a CHR station for adults? Sorry just really concerned that if this trend is continued, major markets will split into CHR stations for adults (labeled as Hot AC) and CHR stations for teens (labeled as CHR)...the CHR chart (which is used as reference for success of most hits) will completely lose its validity, etc. To put it another way IMO, CHR stations for teens are categorized as CHR...so if CHR stations for 20-somethings and adults are categorized as Hot AC, you're gonna have nothin but a rhythmic/teen CHR chart The term "Adult Top 40" (as used by Billboard when Hot AC came out) referred to stations that could not possibly be put on the CHR panel because they completely left out rap, hip-hop, hard rock, etc. - it's kind of a misnomer IMO cause these stations mostly only had 20 or so songs on their playlist, and were extremely non-current focused For example, stations like WRQX/Washington and WPLJ were labeled as "Adult Top 40"...IMO big difference between these and stations like WWMX/Baltimore, WKRQ/Cincinatti, etc. which are more CHR (and even play more currents) than many stations on the CHR panel Well, we'll agree to disagree on this one. I still think there is a fairly large gap between an Adult Top 40 station and a mainstream top 40 station. WTMX in Chicago is still probably less than 30% rhythmic, if that. Combined with their much slower record rotation, that makes for a still relatively large difference between the Mix and WKSC (albeit WKSC is a rhythmic leaning "mainstream" CHR). I think my thing with a Hot AC not playing pop, rap and urban music is that by doing that there is confusion at the other end of the spectrum. Modern leaning AC's now start to sound like mainstream AC's which these days with few exceptions are now sounding like Hot AC's from ten years ago. So aside from a Linkin Park or Veronicas song, those type of Hot AC's sound like one of those "Fresh" AC stations that have popped up in some cities. With only a very few true AC stations left (those that play music from the 70's through today), modern leaning Hot AC's and most mainstream AC's are now sounding almost identical. So basically my point is no matter which direction a Hot AC station leans, it runs the risk of sounding similar to other stations from other formats. But this has been a great discussion so far! If anyone else wants to add to this, I'd be interested to hear what others think.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Mar 14, 2009 17:42:24 GMT -5
^Yeah WKSC is def. nowhere near mainstream CHR (it's almost rhythmic) so no trouble differentiating it from WTMX...if you had say WSTW, WPRO, WKZL, KRBE etc. in your market though not sure you could tell much difference
BTW WWMX/Baltimore is playin both Dead And Gone and Right Round (more than 20x week) - which makes it more Rhythmic I think than a lot of the Cumulus CHRs
Yeah also wonderin where all the other people are on this board lol...
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KelownaGuy20
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Post by KelownaGuy20 on Mar 17, 2009 14:28:13 GMT -5
My station is currently playing "Live Your Life" in our power rotation, and "Right Round" in regular rotation.
However, due to our format, that equals about 45-50 spins a week between the two. When you take into account the spins we're also giving Akon's "Beautiful" and John Legend's "Green Light" (about 7 a week each), plus the 7 or so we give a recurrent like "Dangerous", and the random 1-2 spins per week we're giving tracks like "In Da Club" and "Lose Yourself," I'll up that total to around 100, average.
Now, based on a minimum of 12 songs an hour, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, that would mean that 100 of the 2016 songs we play each week are deemed "CHR." The rest of our playlist is filled by the likes of Jason Mraz, Natasha Bedingfield, Nickelback, Katy Perry, Bryan Adams, Alanis Morissette, Cyndi Lauper, the Pussycat Dolls, etc.
Personally, I don't think 100 songs out of 2016 is worthy of being a CHR.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Mar 18, 2009 8:57:24 GMT -5
The rest of our playlist is filled by the likes of Jason Mraz, Natasha Bedingfield, Nickelback, Katy Perry, Bryan Adams, Alanis Morissette, Cyndi Lauper, the Pussycat Dolls, etc. Personally, I don't think 100 songs out of 2016 is worthy of being a CHR. Only thing is you just counted the straight rhythmic songs as "CHR"...Jason Mraz, Natasha Bedingfield, Nickelback, Katy Perry, and the Pussycat Dolls are core CHR artists also - but I guess if you go back and play Bryan Adams and Cyndi Lauper, maybe that's where the Hot AC thing comes in IMO If you have Live You Life in power and Right Round in regular rotation though, seems like you're targeting teens as well as adults...but if power rotation for you all is really only 30-35 times a week, I can def. see where the discrepancy comes in
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Mar 18, 2009 21:46:47 GMT -5
My station is currently playing "Live Your Life" in our power rotation, and "Right Round" in regular rotation. However, due to our format, that equals about 45-50 spins a week between the two. When you take into account the spins we're also giving Akon's "Beautiful" and John Legend's "Green Light" (about 7 a week each), plus the 7 or so we give a recurrent like "Dangerous", and the random 1-2 spins per week we're giving tracks like "In Da Club" and "Lose Yourself," I'll up that total to around 100, average. Now, based on a minimum of 12 songs an hour, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, that would mean that 100 of the 2016 songs we play each week are deemed "CHR." The rest of our playlist is filled by the likes of Jason Mraz, Natasha Bedingfield, Nickelback, Katy Perry, Bryan Adams, Alanis Morissette, Cyndi Lauper, the Pussycat Dolls, etc. Personally, I don't think 100 songs out of 2016 is worthy of being a CHR. I am going to split the difference between you and atlantaboy. I agree with you that the likes of Lady Gaga, the Pussycat Dolls and Kevin Rudolf can be played on a typical Hot AC station. However, regarding those T.I. songs you mentioned, I think any song where the majority of it is rap probably does not belong on a Hot AC station even if it is played sparingly. However KelownaGuy20, if your listeners enjoy those songs on your station, then who am I to argue what a station should be classified as.
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KelownaGuy20
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Post by KelownaGuy20 on Mar 19, 2009 11:41:46 GMT -5
However KelownaGuy20, if your listeners enjoy those songs on your station, then who am I to argue what a station should be classified as. And I think that's a good point. Here in Kelowna, we have our "HotAC station," but we also have an AC station, a classic hits station, a classic rock station, a modern rock station, a country station, and a news talk. So, frankly, we're the lone station in town that would touch anything like T.I. We have a target audience of women 25-45, a group that's surprisingly receptive to all kinds of music. What I love about HotAC is that it CAN be anything. It can be more "Adult CHR" or it can be a lot closer to a traditional AC. It can technically be an All-Formats type station, like a Jack, or it can be the station forcing "Paralyzer" back up the American Top 40 charts. It's a fantastic format that, based on slight variations in your audience, you can play almost anything. That said, I'm tired of arguing as to what HotAC is. I guess everyone's open to their own ideas based on what they know, and what they believe. So, let's just put a ring on it.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Mar 19, 2009 15:10:15 GMT -5
Here in Kelowna, we have our "HotAC station," but we also have an AC station, a classic hits station, a classic rock station, a modern rock station, a country station, and a news talk. So, frankly, we're the lone station in town that would touch anything like T.I. Yeah you guys are actually in a similar situation to WWMX/Baltimore
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Mar 22, 2009 13:59:53 GMT -5
That said, I'm tired of arguing as to what HotAC is. I guess everyone's open to their own ideas based on what they know, and what they believe. So, let's just put a ring on it. Agreed. There will always be a difference of opinion. That said, I'm glad to see "Just Dance" approaching the top 10. Definately a great song!
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 26, 2009 19:26:54 GMT -5
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Apr 5, 2009 18:01:38 GMT -5
11 9 LADY GAGA Just Dance f/Colby O... 2209 2068 141 11.661
Wow! Up to #9! That's far better than I had expected this song to go. And it still has room to move up a bit.
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Battle601
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Post by Battle601 on Apr 5, 2009 19:41:04 GMT -5
Impressive indeed.
And what's also interesting here are the songs that have managed to reach #1 so far this year on Hot AC, as well as comparing with how they did on Pop:
Nickelback - "Gotta Be Somebody" (7 weeks) The Fray - "You Found Me" (6 weeks) Pink - "Sober" (1st week as of today)
On CHR, Nickelback did not reach the top 10 and The Fray have so far peaked at #6. Pink peaked at #4, whereas her previous single "So What" reached #1 on CHR. Meanwhile, after "So What" peaked at #2 on Hot AC, "Sober" goes to #1. But Pink has some competition in Kelly Clarkson who still has a chance of reaching #1, as do the All-American Rejects who already hit #1 for 4 weeks on Pop.
Hard to say if Lady GaGa will go far as well, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of her at least reaching the Top 5 especially if she can get past some of the songs moving downwards.
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Apr 5, 2009 22:23:58 GMT -5
Hard to say if Lady GaGa will go far as well, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of her at least reaching the Top 5 especially if she can get past some of the songs moving downwards. Top 5 is definately possible. But what I'm more curious about is how many stations are still not playing this song. I have a feeling there are about 20 stations or so that will just not play this song at any cost. Imagine how much better this song would do if every station got on board. Nonetheless, "Just Dance" has certainly broken some new ground on the Hot AC chart!
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Battle601
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Post by Battle601 on Apr 5, 2009 23:13:19 GMT -5
Top 5 is definately possible. But what I'm more curious about is how many stations are still not playing this song. I have a feeling there are about 20 stations or so that will just not play this song at any cost. Imagine how much better this song would do if every station got on board. Nonetheless, "Just Dance" has certainly broken some new ground on the Hot AC chart! It all depends on the types of Hot AC stations out there. Traditional Hot AC stations (and there continue to be a number of them) will stick with the likes of Daughtry, The Fray, Nickelback, and Taylor Swift but will avoid anything that borders or touches on actual Pop music, which is clearly what Lady GaGa's sound is. Or maybe they do play limited selections of Pop music but don't consider her part of the equation. Meanwhile, other Hot AC stations are willing to open up their playlists to artists like Lady GaGa, but you're right, if she got the same amount of exposure as those artists I mentioned above, she would become an easy chart-topper. And reading down the chart, "Poker Face" has suddenly reached the Top 30 and given its current success over on Pop, I think this could catch on just as well on Hot AC.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Apr 7, 2009 20:05:23 GMT -5
^Yeah IMO Just Dance is gonna have a prob. hittin #1 on Hot AC cause there are still a lot of more conservative HACs out there, and also HACs with mainstream CHRs in their market BTW been wonderin when the last time was that #1 Hot AC hit didn't crack Top 10 CHR...Gotta Be Somebody had a ridiculous split between CHRs than leaned adult and CHRs that leaned teen/rhythmic (so basically just ended up peakin in the high teens) Last one I can remember is Daughters by John Mayer, but sure I'm prob. forgettin songs...
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Apr 13, 2009 23:02:20 GMT -5
6 7 NICKELBACK Gotta Be Somebody 2629 2796 -167 14.950 9 8 LADY GAGA Just Dance f/Colby O... 2317 2224 93 11.892
"Just Dance" now up to #8. Nice job! It may be a bit tough to get much higher, but again, this song has done much better than I expected.
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