john123
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Post by john123 on Jul 24, 2010 20:28:33 GMT -5
I mean stuff like Lady Gaga and Ka$$a goes to this format but not The Roots or Mos Def. What the reason for this?
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Jul 24, 2010 22:11:14 GMT -5
Lady Gaga, at least in my opinion employs a "Eurocentric" dance sound to her music. Very adult appealing in my opinion, and one that resonates with adults as this sound has a history on this format. Ace Of Base had a similar sound that did well here, and Madonna was very popular in the 80's when the CHR format was for all intents and purposes a Hot AC leaning format.
Ke$ha also ultilizes a mainstream dance sound in her music. Her rapping seems not to bother adult listeners too much as her music is the type that can get people dancing and feeling good without having to listen to the depressing subject matter that some of today's core hip-hop artists bombard us with.
Finally, how many adults truly would be comfortable listening to Mos Def or Eminem at work (or at any time for that matter) when their songs are so depressing? Not only that, but with the slower lumbering beat on many of these songs, it's not like these are the types of songs that would get people moving!
Artists like B.o.B and Ke$ha have it right. They rap to a more mainstream, contemporary dance sound that appeals to a mass appeal adult audience, the same type of music that Madonna, Ace Of Base and the Real McCoy made back in the 80's and 90's that appealed to the same audience. Granted though, when given the choice, I think most adults would much rather hear the vast majority of their songs sung rather than rapped, which is why I'm concerned that too many rap songs are breaking through here. But a carefully selected few, spaced widely enough probably wouldn't hurt the format too much. But each potential song has to be investigated on a case by case basis IMO.
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john123
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Post by john123 on Jul 25, 2010 9:01:58 GMT -5
Eminem doesn't rap just about depressing stuff. Look at songs like My Name Is. Just a song that could make them laugh. What about songs like Gold Digger and Empire State Of Mind? Thoses songs aren't depressing. And this format plays stuff like Nickelback which is depressing(because they suck ass). Here some songs that the subject matter isn't depressing. It would be great if they played Dance With The Devil by Immortal Technique but that never going to happen. Oh I just realized the spelling in my spelling. :throws up:
Gold Digger
Empire State Of Mind
The Next Episode
Girls
Calforina Love
The Message
Rapper Delight
Can't Touch This
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No Brake$
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Post by No Brake$ on Jul 25, 2010 11:55:30 GMT -5
John123, come on man.
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john123
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Post by john123 on Jul 25, 2010 12:26:07 GMT -5
Why? I was just saying if the dance stuff like Gaga can get played, then so should some other rap.
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Post by The Party Captain on Jul 25, 2010 13:16:56 GMT -5
Other rap? You think Lady Gaga and Ke$ha are rap? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
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john123
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Post by john123 on Jul 25, 2010 14:00:06 GMT -5
Other rap? You think Lady Gaga and Ke$ha are rap? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I don't consider Lady Gaga or Ke$ha rap, I was saying that their music gets played but lot of hip hop songs don't get played. I know bad explan.
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Jul 25, 2010 14:09:21 GMT -5
Why? I was just saying if the dance stuff like Gaga can get played, then so should some other rap. John, I think you are missing my point. While I did state in my original post that the subject matter is very important in determining if a rap song would even have a chance of being played on Hot AC radio, my bigger point is that I don't want to see this format become all full of rap songs taking over the Hot AC chart. That is what the CHR format is for. Hot AC is just that, Hot Adult Contemporary, which means contemporary hits for adults. This is separate from the CHR format which is Contemporary Hit Radio, hit music for a mass appeal but generally younger audience than Hot AC's audience. If Hot AC listeners wanted to listen to rap music every other song, they could freely tune into their local CHR station to hear that. Hot AC listeners though want to hear more mature sounding music which doesn't always talk about crushes, street life or drinking. Adults also want to hear music that is with more depth than just the same three chords over a hip-hop beat for three and a half minutes with no structure. In other words, adults are looking for music that is written with an adult audience in mind. Now yes, Ke$ha and Lady Gaga do well in the format because their songs are well written pop songs that adults listen to in limited quantities. And that's the key here. While there are many adults who do listen to their local CHR station or even alternative station, the thing to remember is that there needs to be a format or two for adults who don't like CHR or other formats to turn to. If the local Hot AC station starts playing Eminem as my hometown Hot AC station WTMX in Chicago did yesterday, they run the risk of alienating longtime loyal listeners who tune in to get away from music like that! A little Lady Gaga, Ke$ha or B.o.B is one thing, but adding too much spice makes things taste bad so to speak. That is what I'm afraid is happening with many Hot AC stations these days. Hopefully John this shows you a little bit on where I am coming from, with no harshness in my tone intended. :) All I'm saying is that you can't just throw any old song into an established format and hope people will like them. Each song has to be evaluated individually and too many bad apples will spoil the whole crop really quickly! Hopefully Hot AC continues to add only the pop crossover that will appeal to their core listeners. "I've Gotta Feeling" and even "Meet Me Halfway" by the Black Eyed Peas would be fine. "Rock Your Body" would not. Just one example of what would and would not be acceptable to the format.
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john123
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Post by john123 on Jul 25, 2010 15:00:41 GMT -5
I agree that they shouldn't add too much rap but what i'm saying is I think some songs deserved to be on this format. Besides the genre been around since the late 70's, I don't think playing alot would damage the stations. How about some old school rap? That wouldn't do bad to play when doing their 80's music blocks.
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Hot AC Archiver
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Post by Hot AC Archiver on Jul 25, 2010 16:07:33 GMT -5
Hot AC is like some of the CHR stations of the 80s and 90s that played "all the hits without the rap". As an adult who doesn't like most of the rap out there, I'm glad they don't play it.
Don't worry though. As the population ages, Hot AC will be forced to start playing rap hits eventually. Folks like me will be driven to Ipods and Satellite radio.
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Hook
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Post by Hook on Jul 25, 2010 16:41:21 GMT -5
Not playing rap is basically one of the key characteristics of the entire format. There are lots of Hot AC stations that advertise the fact that they don't play rap, including my local one.
I disagree that they'll have to start playing rap eventually though. Not everyone younger likes listening to rap any more than everyone in past generations all liked the same thing.
Of course, I do think the lines are going to be very blurred. My local station promotes their lack of rap, yet they have played a couple Black Eyed Peas songs including running "I Gotta Feeling" into the ground.
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john123
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Post by john123 on Jul 25, 2010 17:12:57 GMT -5
What makes Hot AC not playing rap is what i'm asking.
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Hook
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Post by Hook on Jul 25, 2010 20:53:50 GMT -5
You mean why do they do it? I would imagine one reason is to differentiate from CHR/Top 40. A lot of the songs played by the two formats are identical. So the key difference is that CHR plays some Rap and Hip-Hop while HAC plays some singer-songwriter stuff like Colbie Caillat. HAC stations don't really have a big way to separate themselves from Top 40 stations in their market besides the lack of Hip-Hop.
But like I said, the lines are blurred. I've been hearing Jason Derulo and Taio Cruz a lot lately.
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Jul 25, 2010 21:07:15 GMT -5
Hot AC is like some of the CHR stations of the 80s and 90s that played "all the hits without the rap". As an adult who doesn't like most of the rap out there, I'm glad they don't play it. Don't worry though. As the population ages, Hot AC will be forced to start playing rap hits eventually. Folks like me will be driven to Ipods and Satellite radio. Well as I stated earlier Hot AC Guru, WTMX is already spinning the new Eminem/Rihanna song now, and have been dabbling with a little Kanye now and then for the past year as well. In addition to the requisite Ke$ha, they have also been playing "Nothing On You" by B.o.B (surprisingly no "Airplanes" yet which would be a better fit on Hot AC IMO), the very non-Hot AC sounding Jay-Z version of "Empire State of Mind", and have added gold titles by Crazytown ("Butterfly") and Usher ("Yeah") just for good measure. Granted most of those are being played after 5 PM weekdays or during weekends, but still, this station is sounding less Hot AC by the day! I guess they know what they are doing though as they have rebounded to top 5, 12+ and are killing their Hot AC leaning AC competitor by more than 2 to 1. But for better or worse, it should be interesting to see how the Mix continues to evolve over the coming months.
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Jul 25, 2010 21:19:35 GMT -5
Not playing rap is basically one of the key characteristics of the entire format. There are lots of Hot AC stations that advertise the fact that they don't play rap, including my local one. I disagree that they'll have to start playing rap eventually though. Not everyone younger likes listening to rap any more than everyone in past generations all liked the same thing. Of course, I do think the lines are going to be very blurred. My local station promotes their lack of rap, yet they have played a couple Black Eyed Peas songs including running "I Gotta Feeling" into the ground. I couldn't agree more. Who says that today's younger generation will automatically listen to rap when they get older? That's the sole reason the Hot AC and AC formats exist in the first place, so people can get away from rap. Perhaps the rhythmic AC format would satisfy any adult that would like to hear the rap and hip-hop they grew up on without them having to sit through the repetition of current music on the CHR format. But the regular Hot AC format should serve the needs of those adults who don't want to hear rap. Maybe that function will go to mainstream AC in the coming months and years, but I don't see a huge need for two mass appeal formats sounding identical to one another.
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Post by The Party Captain on Jul 25, 2010 22:13:27 GMT -5
The thing about rap is that much of the material is directed at certain events and people, which eliminates a lot of the shelf life. When a Hot AC station picks up a song, they play it for years and years. That's just the nature of the format.
Hot AC without rap is a lot easier to sell to businesses who play music. While there is some rap with mature substance, Jay-Z has "99 Problems" and Eminem has "FACK." Hot AC can be counted on to be professional. Rap just is perceived as risky in a professional environment.
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john123
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Post by john123 on Jul 26, 2010 6:17:04 GMT -5
What the problem with songs about certain events and people? I'm sure they talk about it on the radio. What are they scared to play songs about current news.
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Post by The Party Captain on Jul 26, 2010 17:00:28 GMT -5
Ok. Let me break it down like this.
A radio station has a specific audience. I'm sure your grandma, your dentist, and you have different tastes in radio. The radio station plays what the audience wants. The people that listen to Hot AC do so because THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED IN RAP. If they wanted to listen to rap, they would listen to CHR or some urban stations. Hot AC is for people that DON'T WANT TO LISTEN TO RAP. Different radio stations have different markets.
Why don't polka songs go to Hot AC radio? Why doesn't Stevie Nicks go to Rhythmic? Why doesn't Eminem rep his set on CMT?
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john123
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Post by john123 on Jul 26, 2010 18:20:10 GMT -5
Polka songs are soft which would make me think why they don't play it on ac or hot ac radio. I get it but sometimes it would be ok to have some hip hop songs as well. If they don't play a song like FARK, I guess they wouldn't play any song from the South Park movie.
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Post by marv1978 on Jul 26, 2010 19:43:13 GMT -5
because its hot ac not urban rap
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Jul 26, 2010 19:56:42 GMT -5
Polka songs are soft which would make me think why they don't play it on ac or hot ac radio. I get it but sometimes it would be ok to have some hip hop songs as well. If they don't play a song like FARK, I guess they wouldn't play any song from the South Park movie. John, are you really serious about polka songs being played on AC or Hot AC radio?! I don't know how old you are, but you sound like you are pretty young and are just now trying to learn how radio works, which is a great thing! I know I was just as curious at a similar age when I first got into learning about the different formats of radio. But just to give you a simple background, there is more to radio than just playing a bunch of radically different types of music all on the same station. This can't be done for two reasons. First, different stations target different audiences and therefore can't play the same types of music. And second, if they all did play the same music, then why even bother having more than one station in the same city or area in the first place. And I can add a third reason too. There are many types of soft music along with many types of harder music. For instance, you can't play Barbara Streisand, Taylor Swift and Daughtry on the same station. Well maybe you could but not many would like that mix. Same with mixing up different genres of music. A station that plays a hip-hop song into a country song into an alternative song has been tried in many markets and has failed in almost all of them. This mix of music might work for two or three person's Ipods, but it would not draw enough listeners for a radio station to make money and survive. A station that plays a lot of variety would work, but it has to be within the confines of a particular format, ie: Country, Hot AC, hip-hop, etc. Hopefully this explains things further John on why you cannot just throw a bunch of any songs together and hope people like it. It takes a lot of patience and research to get the formula right, though a little less research these days wouldn't hurt either. But going the other extreme and playing anything doesn't work either.
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john123
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Post by john123 on Jul 26, 2010 20:14:41 GMT -5
Nah I was joking about the polka songs being played I get what your saying. CHR/Pop is the only type of stations that could play a mix and that going a bit too far. I know because of XM which I used to have and now listen to Ipod, cds, and internet radio. Barbara Streisand, Taylor Swift and Daughtry can be all heard on a ac radio station. Lot of alternative rock stations like to play Beastie Boys and Cypress Hill and both are rap/hip-hop.
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Post by marv1978 on Jul 27, 2010 11:24:21 GMT -5
Nah I was joking about the polka songs being played I get what your saying. CHR/Pop is the only type of stations that could play a mix and that going a bit too far. I know because of XM which I used to have and now listen to Ipod, cds, and internet radio. Barbara Streisand, Taylor Swift and Daughtry can be all heard on a ac radio station. Lot of alternative rock stations like to play Beastie Boys and Cypress Hill and both are rap/hip-hop. XM's pulse hot ac plays no rap and alternative and chr are still not hot ac neither is ac. HOT AC/Adult Top 40 was designed to play the hits minus the growing popularity of the generation gap in hip hop/rap/urban. Now they'll will always be exceptions and crossovers, that being said the core of HOT AC i'd say is like Rob Thomas, John Mayer, Nickelback, Katie Perry, Pink, Colbie Calait, Goo Goo Dolls, Train, Lifehouse, Lady Gaga and Bon Jovi to name a few!
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john123
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Post by john123 on Jul 27, 2010 17:58:59 GMT -5
Was Hot AC created so there would be a chr/pop but without teen pop or rap/hip hop like 2 Live Crew and N.W.A? Especially the rap/hip hop I mention so the soccer moms that listen to the station didn't get offend?
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Jul 27, 2010 19:34:26 GMT -5
Was Hot AC created so there would be a chr/pop but without teen pop or rap/hip hop like 2 Live Crew and N.W.A? Especially the rap/hip hop I mention so the soccer moms that listen to the station didn't get offend? You got it! Actually there was always AC radio, but there were also many CHR's in the 80's that leaned Hot AC. So basically that is where the origin of the Hot AC format started. Stations that reported CHR, but were definitely "tweener" type stations between mainstream AC and CHR. Of course as the 90's rolled around, the place for Hot AC radio expanded with the ever increasing amount of rap and hip-hop that became the norm on CHR radio. That's why the Hot AC format has always done well amongst it's adult core audience.
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john123
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Post by john123 on Jul 28, 2010 5:53:12 GMT -5
Well I also get confused why they play Miley Cryus since her demographic isn't the same as Hot AC. If you ask some soccer moms and bussiness people if they rather listen to her or Pop That Pussy by 2 Live Crew, I think Cryus would be the question.
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Post by tico on Jul 28, 2010 11:13:48 GMT -5
Well I also get confused why they play Miley Cryus since her demographic isn't the same as Hot AC. If you ask some soccer moms and bussiness people if they rather listen to her or Pop That Pussy by 2 Live Crew, I think Cryus would be the question. Miley has name recognition, primarily through her role as Hannah Montana. Any parent with a young child knows who Hannah Montana is. Plus, her music fits well with what hot AC plays.
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john123
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Post by john123 on Jul 28, 2010 15:57:10 GMT -5
I guess she could fit in what Hot AC plays.
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Post by tico on Jul 30, 2010 0:19:19 GMT -5
With the way hot AC has evolved, almost anything non-rap can fit. 10-15 years ago, Miley Cyrus probably doesn't get played because the format was heavily geared towards rock-leaning material and the Lilith Fair sound (Sarah McLachlan, Jewel, etc.).
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Minor Scratch
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Post by Minor Scratch on Jul 30, 2010 12:21:56 GMT -5
Rap may not specifically crossover to Hot AC, but the whole electropop phase going on right now is working very well with the format. The demographic who listens to Hot AC mostly grew up listening and partying to electro-style 80s music and may explain why 80s reminiscent electropop such as Lady Gaga's music and tracks like 'California Gurls' have been doing exceptionally well on the format.
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