Shania Twain - regarding Mercury & Certifications

[Deleted]

Since the Shania - "Party For Two" thread was taking over by talk of Mercury and Certifications, I decided to start this thread.

Here we go...

[Deleted]

I'll start.

This is my reply to a TCorey post from the "Party For Two" thread:

TCorey said:

Far, far, far more publicity.

Bigger video budgets.

That's just two.

The Video budget thing is simple. The video budget is paid for by the artist raking in the money.

Terri Clark does not bring in nearly enough money to pay the bill for a $ 1 million or $ 2 million video. Her last couple of cds have not even shipped Gold in the U.S.. Her "Greatest Hits" album also struggled in Canada.

If Terri brought in the Multi-Platinum, or even just Platinum, sales I'm sure Mercury would spend more on videos. Why spend the money if she's not going be able to make it back?

That's also why I don't understand why Mercury is more than willing to PAY to get Terri high charting singles when her # 1 and Top 5 singles don't generate a boost in sales.


The publicity thing is also simple. Shania gets publicity because of the name "Shania Twain" and because of her sales. Not because Mercury launched the press machine.

Name me some examples from after the "Come On Over" era where MERCURY actually generated the press. Name me some ads that MERCURY, or Universal, put in magazines congratulating her on anything.

There was next to nothing during the "Up!" era and even less for her "Greatest Hits" cd.

There was nothing when "Up!" debuted with those high sales. Nothing when she got those Billboard awards. Nothing when she got the Diamond award for "Up!" [The award was given out by Luke Lewis on the red carpet of the CMT Flameworthy awards for goodness sakes!]

No "Billboard" magazine ads congratulating her for anything. It was the complete opposite during the "Come On Over" era.

Now we get to the "Greatest Hits" era. Things have gotten worse.

When "Come On Over" went Diamond the first time, Shania received the 2 Diamond awards on the air at the 1999 ACM awards show. Dick Clark presented the awards to her on the show and she got to come up on stage and make a speech.

When "Up!" went Diamond, the award was presented on the Red Carpet of the CMT Flameworthy awards.

Now, "Come On Over" has gone DOUBLE Diamond and the award was presented somewhere overseas I heard. No press coverage. Mercury still hasn't issued a press release about it.

The worst part is that Mercury's own official page for Shania [ www.shania-twain.com/ ] does not even mention the Double Diamond certification. The only thing that page does is to take you to Shania's separate official site [ www.shaniatwain.com/ ]. When you get there, Shania's official site does not even mention the certification either.

If it wasn't for that small little mention of it at the bottom of the Nashville Tennessean's site, I doubt anyone would have known about it.

Some people around here might say that Shania fans are obsessive and worrying over nothing but think about this: If it wasn't for us posting this stuff, virtually no one would know what's going on in Shania's career - album release, publicity appearances or anything else.

As you can tell by looking at those sites, you sure can't count on Mercury for any of that information.

[drock89]

The only message I am going to start by posting is: the Mercury side of UMG needs to be reformed. They need to get their priorities straight and Lewis needs to pay more attention to what's going on...

[Deleted]

My response to a post bambas wrote in the "Party For Two" thread:

bambas said:

Shania isn't a martyr, but Mercury's not a good label. Just remember Reba, perhaps you could talk about it even more than myself.

You could also ask Toby Keith about that too.

Toby wasn't too thrilled, to put it lightly, with Mercury either.

[WhySoSerious?]

MusicSTFan said:

That's also why I don't understand why Mercury is more than willing to PAY to get Terri high charting singles when her # 1 and Top 5 singles don't generate a boost in sales.

Because maybe they think she needs it more than Shani does.

I'm not even commenting on the rest of it because it's all Sales, sales, sales. Mercury is an awful label because they didn't throw a parade for Shania because she sold a lot of records?

[WhySoSerious?]

You're missing the boat completely. Mercury obviously did something right to get all those albums shipped in the first place. Complaining now that they didn't celebrate the double diamond is overlooking the fact that they got the album to double diamond in the first place.

Labels should have more on their minds than getting plaques for certifications. That should be the last of their concerns.

[bambas]

First of all, some parade won't hurt anyone, you sure liked the press-conference of Reba about her latest #1.

So why not a little parade about an album reaching 20 million certification- an achievement made by no other female and country act in the States?

Secondly, Mercury is not a good label, because their right hand generally doesn't know what the left does.
Because they are messing up singles, at least according to some DJs. They aren't sending them out at time etc.
For to see how that label is operating, you don't need to be a Shania fan...

[WhySoSerious?]

bambas said:

First of all, some parade won't hurt anyone, you sure liked the press-conference of Reba about her latest #1.

So why not a little parade about an album reaching 20 million certification- an achievement made by no other female and country act in the States?

Ugh...I never said anything was wrong with celebrating achievement, I just don't think it makes Mercury an awful label if they don't pat themselves on the back. Who cares? Shania fans must be the most ungrateful ever. She gets a 20 million certification and instead of being happy, everyone is pissed off that there was no party.

[bambas]

TCorey said:

You're missing the boat completely.  Mercury obviously did something right to get all those albums shipped in the first place.

Ah, a very good example - Come On Over missed the #1 position, because there were not enough albums shipped.
On the other hand, when they are shipped UP!, they sent out 4m copies, which was an obvious over-shipping...

But for not making this as from Shnaia's fans point of view, I will post an article about Mercury, posted on Nashville Scene (when I will find it)

[bambas]

TCorey said:

Ugh...I never said anything was wrong with celebrating achievement, I just don't think it makes Mercury an awful label if they don't pat themselves on the back.  Who cares?  Shania fans must be the most ungrateful ever.  She gets a 20 million certification and instead of being happy, everyone is pissed off that there was no party.

Well, we are very grateful, except not to Mercury, but Shania (and Mutt).
Secondly I have a feeling you intentionally twist some posts.
I don't care about the party. But there was not even a press release about. Not even a picture of Shania posted by Mercury receiving it- like you posted about Reba and her new #1. That is really not much to ask...

[WhySoSerious?]

I'm done discussing her.  I was just trying to get everyone out of the clouds and bring a sense of reality to the discussion, but no one's interested.

[bambas]

Here is the article, it was written when the rumors about Dreamwork merge with Mercury were hot.
It's a very long, but interesting article about Mercury, the label:
www.nashvillescene.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?story=Back_Issues:2002:October_31-November_6_2002:Arts:Music_Industry

[Deleted]

Right on time, news comes in that just pours more salt into the wound.

In the latest issue of "Billboard," there is no mention of "Come On Over" going Double Diamond. No mention. No photo. Nothing.

However, there are photos of both George Strait and Gretchen holding their 3 Million plaques.

That says it all.

[jond7699]

Obsess much

[drock89]

TCorey said:

I'm done discussing her. I was just trying to get everyone out of the clouds and bring a sense of reality to the discussion, but no one's interested.

But you don't get it. Let's make it Reba. Reba just sold 20 million copies of a record, you would want a press release right? Its the fact that Mercury does nothing. And thats one example.

They don't push her songs at radio, they are always late..
There is NO promo for albums, other that TV appeareances...

Shania pays for videos, she pays for the tour. Hell, the only people Mercury is paying are Shania and Mutt...

[WhySoSerious?]

I get it just fine. Some of you seem like you love her more because she's successful than you do because you love her music. So, when one of her chart accomplishments doesn't get publicized you guys go crazy.

I find it hard to that a record label who caused her to sell more records than any other woman in country music can be all bad. They've obviously done something right.

[drock89]

TCorey said:

I get it just fine. Some of you seem like you love her more because she's successful than you do because you love her music. So, when one of her chart accomplishments doesn't get publicized you guys go crazy.

I find it hard to that a record label who caused her to sell more records than any other woman in country music can be all bad. They've obviously done something right.

Mercury did squat. Did Mercury find writers to write the songs? Did Mercury choose the producer? Did Mercury choose the songs on the records? No. Even Shania has said "without hit songs, you're nothing". The only person responsible for Shania's career is Shania, and Mutt of course.

Mercury has done what a marketing label should do: invest nothing and reep the benefits.

(And I have been a fan of Shania for 10 years. I was 6 when I became a fan. I didn't like her then because she was successful)

[WhySoSerious?]

shaniagotchagood said:

Mercury did squat. Did Mercury find writers to write the songs? Did Mercury choose the producer? Did Mercury choose the songs on the records? No. Even Shania has said "without hit songs, you're nothing". The only person responsible for Shania's career is Shania, and Mutt of course.

Mercury has done what a marketing label should do: invest nothing and reep the benefits.

(And I have been a fan of Shania for 10 years. I was 6 when I became a fan. I didn't like her then because she was successful)

Bull. They promoted the hell out of The Woman In Me and Come On Over. Let Shania release her albums independently and see how far she gets.

[drock89]

TCorey said:

Bull. They promoted the hell out of The Woman In Me and Come On Over. Let Shania release her albums independently and see how far she gets.

I would love to see that. She needs to get off her a** and make her own label.

Why didn't they do the radio tours for UP! then? That's the promotion they did for her in 95: sent her to malls and radio stations to promote the album. How many people did that reach? It's good promo yes, but it's not very high profile. In my concern, I would rather see them pitch her more to radio, esp large market. With the new change in BB, Shania will go nowhere on country radio. She struggles constintly at large markets. This GH is going to need TV promo too, in ad form. Shania isn't here to promote it, Mercury pushed for the album, so they need to follow up and promote it.

[WhySoSerious?]

Like I said before, you obviously think Mercury is trying to run her career into the ground. I don't. End of discussion.

[jond7699]

Why would Mercury try to run their best seller's career into the ground ??? Doesn't make sense to me

[drock89]

TCorey said:

Like I said before, you obviously think Mercury is trying to run her career into the ground. I don't. End of discussion.

No, and heres another thought. I am not talking about the time period 1995-2002. Mercury did fine. But about half way into UP!, they just started slacking. UP!'s singles were handeled wrong, the album had great TV promotion.

[bambas]

You know its not about ruining her carrier...
It's about some lack of ability, and maybe will to do more, than the minimum.
A relation of artist and label - no matter how the artist is successful or not can change. Just as well as the music trend are changing.
The label is simple not the same - they released J. O'Neill, Marcel, Mark Wills , Antony Smith (I think ) and a few more. Instead they signed now Currington, Roberst, Otto, Sugarland.

Once they were one label, now they are the merge of Mercury, MCA, Dreamworks and Lost Highways - and each label has its roster and artist, and power, but their money and possibilities changed.

They lost many workers during the 2000-2002 period. One of them was John Grady, who did participated in the lauching of TWIM and COO - and look how well his doing now in Sony with Wilson.
And if we talk about the period prior to UP!, than just listen to Grady, who said when he was asked what he is the most proud about the success of TWIM? And he said that we (Mercury) did not screwed up.
That's the summary of this label....not only about Shania, abut about many other artist who was/is on this label.

And you know TCorey, I am quite disappointed about your attitude, you seems to be a nice guy, but when you talk to Shania fans you are full of prejudice.
Just because we are not admiring Mercury, and you not really like Shania , doesn't mean we like Shania only for her success. And no, not even for her looks.
We love her for the music, the message and the person who she is.

And really, but really shame on us wanting a press-release about Come on Over hitting Double Diamond

[bamafan2102]

TCorey is too busy helping buy spins for Reba so he dosen't have time to help Shania. (Sorry I couldn't resist!!!)

[WhySoSerious?]

bambas said:

And you know TCorey, I am quite disappointed about your attitude, you seems to be a nice guy, but when you talk to Shania fans you are full of prejudice.

And really, but really shame on us wanting a press-release about Come on Over hitting Double Diamond

I'm prejudiced and you guys aren't? Come on now.

Stop putting words into my mouth. I never said you shouldn't want her success recognized, again for the fifteenth time, I said that not throwing a party doesn't make Mercury a bad label. I think you are blowing this certification mess all out of proportion.

[WhySoSerious?]

bamafan2102 said:

TCorey is too busy helping buy spins for Reba so he dosen't have time to help Shania. (Sorry I couldn't resist!!!)

Help her with what? ???

[WhySoSerious?]

Also, there's no need to bring up an artist I like (Reba) in this discussion.  It's petty and childish.  I like Shania fine.  I'm not a hardcore fan, but I own all of her albums except the new GH.  Just because I don't think Mercury has done the worst job imaginable for her doesn't mean I'm prejudiced against her.

[drock89]

TCorey said:

Also, there's no need to bring up an artist I like (Reba) in this discussion. It's petty and childish. I like Shania fine. I'm not a hardcore fan, but I own all of her albums except the new GH. Just because I don't think Mercury has done the worst job imaginable for her doesn't mean I'm prejudiced against her.

The only reason I did it is to compare. If it was Reba, Tim, Dolly, anybody, it would be the same way under Mercury. It wasn't to bash.

[bambas]

I agree with the above.
I don't think Mercury is a good label, for ALL of its artists especially not after all the merges. Just read the article I've posted on the former page.

[bambas]

TCorey said:

I'm prejudiced and you guys aren't?  Come on now.

Stop putting words into my mouth.  I never said you shouldn't want her success recognized, again for the fifteenth time, I said that not throwing a party doesn't make Mercury a bad label.  I think you are blowing this certification mess all out of proportion.

Than stop you too putting words in our mouths: like you like her success or sales only - kinda typical stuff.

And stop telling we are upset about not throwing a party - who cares about the party?
We only want an official press-release. 5 minutes of promo-job. And not for every certification, whatever Shania receives, but this specific one is a pretty big issue.

And yes, I am thinking that beside many other things Mercury did not handled this as it should.