Keelzit
Diamond Member
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Post by Keelzit on Feb 25, 2014 10:10:45 GMT -5
Why is embracing other cultures racist? I thought the opposite was the bad thing to do. Some people are too sensitive.
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SPRΞΞ
Diamond Member
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Feb 25, 2014 11:05:03 GMT -5
The ironic thing is that the haters are only making her an even bigger star, by stirring shit up like that. Any publicity is good publicity.
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Aaron
Gold Member
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Post by Aaron on Feb 25, 2014 13:42:24 GMT -5
US Streaming Numbers for last week (major sources of streams only):
VEVO Dark Horse (Audio) - 4.6 million Dark Horse (Video) - 2.3 million
SPOTIFY Dark Horse - 2.3 million
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 14:18:02 GMT -5
Okay but she isn't "appreciating" the culture, she is taking parts of cultures she clearly knows nothing about and creating stereotypical caricatures of them. Enough people from these cultures have taken offense to it to where it's not just nitpicking. If she was appreciating these other cultures, she wouldn't take imagery and wardrobe which has cultural significance and then commercialize it and turn it into a trend. Do you really think she knows anything about the cultures she's imitating? I feel it's probably much more likely she just thinks its pretty. Also LOL @ you bringing up the jobs she's creating for minorities. Yeah, she's really moving things forward for Asian women in entertainment by having them portray their stereotypes on national TV. Wake up.
And yeah it is different when a POC does something like this because while its still inappropriate it doesn't pack the same punch. White people have been marginalizing and shaming people for their traditional cultures for decades so when someone like Katy Perry takes other cultures and turns them into a game of dress up, it's insulting and insensitive. Maybe one day it will be ok but until then, when non white people wearing traditional clothing are still marginalized, the least any white person can do is not turn those outfits into a trend. Why would it be so hard for her to NOT do this? I feel like she could come out in blackface and people would still be like "Well Im sure she didn't MEAN to be racist. It's just a style."
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Spidey
Diamond Member
Joined: July 2008
Posts: 16,680
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Post by Spidey on Feb 25, 2014 14:37:52 GMT -5
The controversy over the "Dark Horse" video is rather overblown. People are way too sensitive these days.
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icefire9
2x Platinum Member
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Post by icefire9 on Feb 25, 2014 14:44:45 GMT -5
US Streaming Numbers for last week (major sources of streams only): VEVO Dark Horse (Audio) - 4.6 million Dark Horse (Video) - 2.3 million SPOTIFY Dark Horse - 2.3 million So 9.2M + other streaming outlets. Its probably over 10M in streaming then. I was expecting more views for the video, to be honest.
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Hefty Hanna
Diamond Member
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Post by Hefty Hanna on Feb 25, 2014 15:31:50 GMT -5
All I can really say to this argument is that it's just a light-hearted, fun video that clearly isn't intentionally trying to upset ancient Egyptians. I am sure they are not rolling around in their graves over Katy Perry making pretend to be Cleopatra.
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on Feb 25, 2014 15:41:44 GMT -5
Okay but she isn't "appreciating" the culture, she is taking parts of cultures she clearly knows nothing about and creating stereotypical caricatures of them. Enough people from these cultures have taken offense to it to where it's not just nitpicking. If she was appreciating these other cultures, she wouldn't take imagery and wardrobe which has cultural significance and then commercialize it and turn it into a trend. Do you really think she knows anything about the cultures she's imitating? I feel it's probably much more likely she just thinks its pretty. Also LOL @ you bringing up the jobs she's creating for minorities. Yeah, she's really moving things forward for Asian women in entertainment by having them portray their stereotypes on national TV. Wake up. And yeah it is different when a POC does something like this because while its still inappropriate it doesn't pack the same punch. White people have been marginalizing and shaming people for their traditional cultures for decades so when someone like Katy Perry takes other cultures and turns them into a game of dress up, it's insulting and insensitive. Maybe one day it will be ok but until then, when non white people wearing traditional clothing are still marginalized, the least any white person can do is not turn those outfits into a trend. Why would it be so hard for her to NOT do this? I feel like she could come out in blackface and people would still be like "Well Im sure she didn't MEAN to be racist. It's just a style." Waaaaa....continue to being offended over nothing thats of any importance.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 15:55:25 GMT -5
Ok girl, just as long as you continue to be woefully ignorant of this white treachery.
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Peterawr
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hi
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Post by Peterawr on Feb 25, 2014 16:06:22 GMT -5
I never got any racist vibe from it. Racism is saying that you are above another race or that they are somehow inferior - she is exploring different cultures and vaguely using other cultures as a creative outlet. And personally, I think that by her exploring other cultures, she is showing that she finds them interesting and worthwhile. Maybe not in the best or most tasteful way, but seriously, it's a music video. It's not like she's trying to educate people on the Egyptians - she is taking well-known imagery and using it to make a fun and colorful video. That's it.
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SPRΞΞ
Diamond Member
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Posts: 22,075
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Feb 25, 2014 17:13:41 GMT -5
I never got any racist vibe from it. Racism is saying that you are above another race or that they are somehow inferior - she is exploring different cultures and vaguely using other cultures as a creative outlet. And personally, I think that by her exploring other cultures, she is showing that she finds them interesting and worthwhile. Maybe not in the best or most tasteful way, but seriously, it's a music video. It's not like she's trying to educate people on the Egyptians - she is taking well-known imagery and using it to make a fun and colorful video. That's it. And it's really weird that some don't see it that way. It's rather pathetic actually.
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Feb 25, 2014 17:30:06 GMT -5
I hate the blind defense of pop stars, especially when it goes so far as to say that people are wrong for taking offense to a cultural issue from a pop star. Who are any of you to deny that reaction? Your stan card doesn't trump s**t.
Katy Perry has a history of using imagery and customs from different cultures and groups to further her songs, period. She is not Japanese, Egyptian, mentally challenged, nor a member of the military, but she has pretended to be such for the purpose of her lighter-than-air songs' music videos and/or performances. It isn't, for me, so much that any one of those things has been offensive, but the culmination of such a hollow use of whatever suits her aesthetic fancy that demonstrates a strong lack of awareness, or care, for those own groups' sense of self and agency that she really has no part in imitating.
And if people aren't so blown away by a budget or uber-bright colors or shtick and find themselves troubled by Katy Perry's music video trend, that's well within their rights and it doesn't make them wrong, stupid, pathetic, or haters. Get a f**king grip.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Feb 25, 2014 17:42:15 GMT -5
Normally I would give her a pass, but then there was the geisha performance and her saying that she wishes she could wear Japanese people like a purse and casually wearing bindis all the time and stuff like that. She just has too many strikes at this point, it really feels like adapting cultural imagery is her "thing" and that is a big red flag for me. But why do people have to strictly stay within "their culture". She can't help where she was born, and shouldn't be criticized for admiring other cultures .I think it's more about people being too sensitive and LOOKING for a reason to tag herβ¦. Yeah, it just makes it into another "us vs. them" situation. As do posts like this, in my opinion: Ok girl, just as long as you continue to be woefully ignorant of this white treachery.
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dajire4
Platinum Member
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Post by dajire4 on Feb 25, 2014 17:45:59 GMT -5
so basically if someone dresses up as an Egyptian for Halloween they are being racists? That's just damn. I am Hispanic and I wouldn't take offense in someone dressing up as a bullfighter or a mariachi. Just get over it people
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dbhmr
Diamond Member
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Post by dbhmr on Feb 25, 2014 18:00:09 GMT -5
so basically if someone dresses up as an Egyptian for Halloween they are being racists? That's just damn. I am Hispanic and I wouldn't take offense in someone dressing up as a bullfighter or a mariachi. Just get over it people You and others are the only ones over-simplifying this. If you think your neighborhood Halloween party is on the same scale as the latest music video from arguably today's biggest pop star, I can't help you. I, for one, think more vibrant Egyptian visuals are an interesting, less-obvious take on this song for the video. But instead of using her massive budget to hire an Egyptian actress to play the role of Cleopatra (she could still have been featured elsewhere), she inserted herself and her bland brand of Adam Sandler humor into yet another culture for the sake of streaming points. And, like I said earlier, it's the accumulation of such acts that leads me to believe she's just pretty indifferent to the insensitivity of playing dress-up with other cultures on a grander scale.
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icefire9
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Post by icefire9 on Feb 25, 2014 18:13:40 GMT -5
so basically if someone dresses up as an Egyptian for Halloween they are being racists? That's just damn. I am Hispanic and I wouldn't take offense in someone dressing up as a bullfighter or a mariachi. Just get over it people You and others are the only ones over-simplifying this. If you think your neighborhood Halloween party is on the same scale as the latest music video from arguably today's biggest pop star, I can't help you. By what you're saying here, it seems like you think that if an unknown artist did pretty much the same kind of music video (on a much lower budget, admittedly), it wouldn't be racist. Racism isn't a matter of scale. If someone dressing up as an Egyptian in a music video is racist, then someone dressing up as an Egyptian for a party is too. Someone being prejudiced against black people in the privacy if their own home is still racist, even though the person that voices those some opinions on national TV gets more flack for it.
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dajire4
Platinum Member
If you got such great ambition, then why are you still hanging around?
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Post by dajire4 on Feb 25, 2014 18:21:35 GMT -5
so basically if someone dresses up as an Egyptian for Halloween they are being racists? That's just damn. I am Hispanic and I wouldn't take offense in someone dressing up as a bullfighter or a mariachi. Just get over it people You and others are the only ones over-simplifying this. If you think your neighborhood Halloween party is on the same scale as the latest music video from arguably today's biggest pop star, I can't help you. I, for one, think more vibrant Egyptian visuals are an interesting, less-obvious take on this song for the video. But instead of using her massive budget to hire an Egyptian actress to play the role of Cleopatra (she could still have been featured elsewhere), she inserted herself and her bland brand of Adam Sandler humor into yet another culture for the sake of streaming points. And, like I said earlier, it's the accumulation of such acts that leads me to believe she's just pretty indifferent to the insensitivity of playing dress-up with other cultures on a grander scale. Yeah, I'm oversimplifying it but now that i think about it I'm quite sure everyone in Egypt feels offended and Katy's been banned from the country altogether.
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Feb 25, 2014 18:31:24 GMT -5
You and others are the only ones over-simplifying this. If you think your neighborhood Halloween party is on the same scale as the latest music video from arguably today's biggest pop star, I can't help you. By what you're saying here, it seems like you think that if an unknown artist did pretty much the same kind of music video (on a much lower budget, admittedly), it wouldn't be racist. Racism isn't a matter of scale. If someone dressing up as an Egyptian in a music video is racist, then someone dressing up as an Egyptian for a party is too. Someone being prejudiced against black people in the privacy if their own home is still racist, even though the person that voices those some opinions on national TV gets more flack for it. I've actually never said anything she has done has been racist. It seems like to some something is either racist or not, and that there's a correct answer for every scenario. My point is is that she has a history of donning on cultural or group garb to suit an aesthetic vision, regardless of the fact that she does not belong to those races or groups, and that continuing to do so for one-off music videos can rightfully be seen as insensitive and even ignorant.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 18:42:47 GMT -5
Ok I just need people to stop saying that she is appreciating another culture. She is not. If she was then she would have the decency to make sure that her taking aspects of that culture and using them as her commercial schtick was OK which, judging by the fact that people who identify with those cultures have voiced their discomfort, it is not. She isn't respecting the cultures she's imitating, she's just creating a cartoonish depiction of other places that she thinks are cool or trendy. It's not the same as her appreciating or respecting or shining a light on another culture. She is not doing anyone a service by dressing up as a geisha and singing about unconditional love nor is she helping Egyptians out by dressing up as a Eurocentric Cleopatra. This isn't that hard of a concept to understand and it shouldn't be a very hard connection to say that she shouldn't dress up as another race. This has nothing to do with appreciating culture. This has everything to do with appropriation of culturally specific imagery, making ethnic bodies a commodity and turning cultures into costumes.
As far as it being an "us vs. them" situation, I would say that as long as white people can wear bindis and dress up as geishas and have it be accepted as creative, cool and hip while the people whose culture that actually belongs to are ostracized and shamed then there is a level of us vs. them. There is a level of inequality and privilege which, in this case, makes it important for white people to be conscious of their actions and relations with regards to groups that have historically been systematically stigmatized and oppressed by other white people.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Feb 25, 2014 18:59:14 GMT -5
So white people are the only ones that mock other cultures?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 19:00:37 GMT -5
So white people are the only ones that mock other cultures? No, other people mock cultures as well, but it's ok because they aren't white.
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emcee
Charting
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Posts: 77
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Post by emcee on Feb 25, 2014 19:32:21 GMT -5
So white people are the only ones that mock other cultures? No, other people mock cultures as well, but it's ok because they aren't white. I'm not white and this hypocrisy just grates on me. In the US it seems like you're penalized for being white. That is not equality. Anyways, DH pulled some impressive streaming numbers this first half week.
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dbhmr
Diamond Member
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Post by dbhmr on Feb 25, 2014 19:41:58 GMT -5
No, other people mock cultures as well, but it's ok because they aren't white. I'm not white and this hypocrisy just grates on me. In the US it seems like you're penalized for being white. That is not equality. Anyways, DH pulled some impressive streaming numbers this first half week. Anyone who thinks white people are oppressed or punished in the United States for being white are so greatly out of touch they have no business speaking on the subject at all. There is a conversation to be had about "rules" and what certain races/groups can get away with that others can't, but you can't have it with people being as flippant and obnoxious as they are in this thread.
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slamina
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Post by slamina on Feb 25, 2014 19:43:30 GMT -5
Seems like some people are just looking for things to criticize. This is meant to be light-hearted, fun pop music. If you're overly sensitive and narrow-minded about the use of imagery from other cultures, feel free not to follow the artist and watch his or her music videos. Repeatedly entering a thread for that same artist just to reiterate your distaste ad nauseam just makes you look bitter, and that's not a cute look.
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Libra
Diamond Member
The One Who Knows Where All the Bodies Are Buried
:)
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My Charts
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Post by Libra on Feb 25, 2014 20:08:17 GMT -5
There is a conversation to be had about "rules" and what certain races/groups can get away with that others can't, but you can't have it with people being as flippant and obnoxious as they are in this thread. Too big to just be contained in this thread tbqh. It's begging for its own.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 20:13:58 GMT -5
So white people are the only ones that mock other cultures? Is that really all you got from that post? You should find Jesus and gain some deeper understanding of privilege. Until then, continue blind support for racially insensitive pop stars and their ignorance of the voices they are using for commercial gain.
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Lahey's Lucky Star
Diamond Member
Banned
You must be my lucky star
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Post by Lahey's Lucky Star on Feb 25, 2014 20:26:34 GMT -5
ARE YOU PEOPLE TRYING TO KILL THE SONG?!?! Seriously, stop the controversy! It's just a fun and catchy video with pretty colors and skillful imagery use.
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Feb 25, 2014 20:27:17 GMT -5
There is a conversation to be had about "rules" and what certain races/groups can get away with that others can't, but you can't have it with people being as flippant and obnoxious as they are in this thread. Too big to just be contained in this thread tbqh. It's begging for its own. Done. Please go back to your regularly scheduled KPUgasms.
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musicfan134
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Post by musicfan134 on Feb 25, 2014 20:34:52 GMT -5
Whether she means to or not, Katy Perry's music and videos are easy to misinterpret. Look at her catalog. "Ur So Gay" was borderline mocking the gay community and created a bit of a quiet uproar (which was fueled by "I Kissed a Girl" later exploding). "Last Friday Night", while a bit of fun, was representing a person with a disability in a negative light. I don't think she means anything by it, I'm certainly not suggesting she is racist or homophobic, but people have to understand the sensitivity behind it. We live in a day and age where there are people who disagree with that lifestyle. Releasing material like what Katy has been doing is a risky move that I'm not sure is going to pay off at this point of her career. At the beginning of her career it got her some attention. LFN was innocent enough to not really be made into a big deal. But from a business standpoint, for her to continue to flaunt other cultures in her videos that she clearly doesn't associate with is not a road that is worth it for her at this point. This song was a huge hit for her even before she released the video. I don't see the purpose behind releasing a video at all, let alone a controversial one. If the song wasn't selling well, I could see releasing a controversial video like this to get people talking about her, but the song is selling quite well on it's own. It just doesn't make sense to me why she would take the time to desensitize another culture on a song that is already so big.
But in the end, regardless of whether you think the video is degrading the Egyptian culture or not, the video downright sucks and should never have seen the light of day. Ugh. I couldn't even watch it all the way. I got to the second chorus and literally had to wipe my eyes out with a paper napkin and do my best to pretend that I had never seen that crap. (Disclaimer: I usually love her videos...I have all of her albums...I'm a fan of hers. I just don't like this video.)
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NeRD
Diamond Member
RIHANNA NAVY
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Posts: 15,216
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Post by NeRD on Feb 25, 2014 20:51:04 GMT -5
LOL these long ass essays.
Katy falling from cloud 9? :'(
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