getonthebus
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Post by getonthebus on Feb 19, 2016 20:32:00 GMT -5
He may still produce some hits, but as a label head he has been a complete and utter failure, Kesha being the exception. It's disgusting, but the way a lot of acts are talking, his behavior seems like one of the industry's grossest open secrets.
Sony will pull the plug once their agreement is up, if not earlier.
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SHOOTER
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Post by SHOOTER on Feb 19, 2016 20:58:15 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see what female artists work with Luke moving forward.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2016 20:59:06 GMT -5
if you think he's over your wrong. musicians (especially up and comers) will still want to work with him despite the kesha mess. this is just how the industry works unfortunately. I never said his career was over. I said he won't have much of one. The impact of these trials is already pretty apparent. His most recent "high profile" collaboration was, what, Ciara? He may still work with some newer artists and have a sustainable career, but he won't hold the same power he had before. Actually this touches on something I picked up on a while ago, when he had that random string of urban hits with Usher, Nicki, and Ne-Yo. This was while Kesha's suit was still fresh and I could not shake the feeling that he was prepping urban to be his fallback. Mainstream may (mostly) wash their hands of him but the urban community is...a lot more tolerant of certain behavior. One of my deepest frustrations.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2016 20:59:44 GMT -5
I think he'll come out of this better than she will, but I see a lot of female acts refusing to work with him now. Can't say I'm too bothered.
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Colton
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Post by Colton on Feb 19, 2016 21:22:15 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see what female artists work with Luke moving forward. Probably Becky g
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wjr15
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Post by wjr15 on Feb 19, 2016 22:21:27 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see what female artists work with Luke moving forward. Hopefully Katy Perry cuts ties with him but I'm worried she might not since he is responsible for a majority of her huge hits. But at least she still has Max Martin to fall back on for hits.
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surfy
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Post by surfy on Feb 19, 2016 23:09:33 GMT -5
Poor Kesha... I can understand why she would want to cut ties with the very label that allowed this kind of behavior to go on. 8 albums is a fuckton... I just hope that she still has a way out. </3
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Linnethia Monique
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Post by Linnethia Monique on Feb 19, 2016 23:26:20 GMT -5
Poor Kesha... I can understand why she would want to cut ties with the very label that allowed this kind of behavior to go on. 8 albums is a fuckton... I just hope that she still has a way out. </3 I hate to play the Devil's Advocate in this situation but did Sony KNOW about what was going on? According to the judge everything was very vague to them, both the judge and label, in her defense. During the court date would've been the perfect time for somebody like Kelly Clarkson or P!nk, who have known beef with him, to speak out. Not after the judgement which is such a pussy move. Don't try and give me solace after the deed with you knowing beforehand what could happen.
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SHOOTER
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Post by SHOOTER on Feb 19, 2016 23:52:25 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see what female artists work with Luke moving forward. Probably Becky g Besides female artists contractually obligated to work with him.
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musicfan134
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Post by musicfan134 on Feb 19, 2016 23:53:38 GMT -5
^Eh, neither Kelly nor P!nk's situations had anything to do with this though. They wouldn't be able to speak directly to Ke$ha's situation, and for them to speak poorly of Dr. Luke before/during the case wouldn't really help her case either while doing it now is at least giving it a bit more media attention.
However, I think you're absolutely right in that Sony probably does not know the extent of what went down. No one does except Ke$ha and Dr. Luke, and the truth of what happened is probably pretty close to in between their two stories so we'll probably never know.
I do agree that she definitely deserves out of her contract though. At bare minimum, she should not have to work with Dr. Luke and worry about the consequences of her career for not doing so.
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Post by ificanthaveyou on Feb 20, 2016 1:37:45 GMT -5
Okay, I'm confused... was Luke found guilty of rape or are the celebrities just taking Kesha's word for it???
Either way it must really suck for Kesha. A popstars shelflife isn't very long, and the public haven't really been fond of her from the getgo.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2016 2:08:19 GMT -5
Her issue is that she dragged Sony into the equation. She bit, sh!t, and slammed the door on the hand that fed her when they had no fault in what transpired between her and Gottwald. She was granted the ability to record WITHOUT Lukasz and she still wanted out of the contract. They probably felt that she was using this as a backdoor to get out of her overall contract and they weren't going to even entertain that idea. 100% this. I have no reason not to believe Kesha but the way this is all going down is kind of strange. The fact that she was offered the opportunity not to work with him but dismissed it because she was afraid of not being properly promoted is..confusing. How does she/her counsel think this works? Has she pressed charges against Luke for sexual assault or abuse? Or is she just expecting the judge to take her word on it? It seems like such a central part of her lawsuit but if there hasn't been any criminal investigation, how do they expect to use that as leverage for her case?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2016 2:29:43 GMT -5
I wonder why she can't get out of this contract. JoJo had a multiple album deal too and that wasn't allowed and she got free. 8 albums aren't allowed so she should get free from it.
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spooky21
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Post by spooky21 on Feb 20, 2016 3:06:25 GMT -5
I think she has a separate sexual assault case that is scheduled to be tried in 2017. This particular ruling was on a preliminary injunction in a civil contract dispute. Kesha wants her contract dissolved and to do that, she has to claim a "breach" of contract by the other party. Unfortunately, her breach claim here, sexual abuse and assault, were really still alleged and unsubstantiated, even with the lesser burden of proof required in a civil trial.
Really s**tty for Kesha should her allegations be true but regardless of how you feel about that, the contract law kinda worked as it should. You just can't absolve people of their contract obligations based on unsubstantiated allegations. Sony pretty much tied the ribbon in their favor when they offered her the accommodation of working with anyone she wanted to, vs. only Dr. Luke.....which I think they have previously refused to.
By the way, didn't Dr Luke post regularly on Pulse way back in the day?
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Future Captain
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Post by Future Captain on Feb 20, 2016 9:40:46 GMT -5
I think the reason why Kesha refused the offer to be able to get away from Dr. Luke, just with some restriction, is because there's a bit more something that work in the background that will make that such offer would only put her in the same position?
Just a speculation. I really hope there's some way for Kesha to get out of this.
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Colton
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Post by Colton on Feb 20, 2016 9:48:29 GMT -5
So what are the next steps?
Like what the hell is she gonna do now
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slowmo
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Post by slowmo on Feb 20, 2016 11:30:30 GMT -5
By the way, didn't Dr Luke post here regularly on Pulse way back in the day? Yes he did and on a couple fan sites before that. I'm just trying to sort this out, she's signed to Luke's label which is under Sony? Even though Sony said she could record with other producers, wouldn't Luke still pocket a portion of the money made by those recordings? If that's true and what she's alleging is true, I can see why she's trying to get out of the whole contract. Who wants to continue lining the pocket of their alleged abuser? This whole thing bums me out.
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Feb 20, 2016 11:46:26 GMT -5
Her issue is that she dragged Sony into the equation. She bit, sh!t, and slammed the door on the hand that fed her when they had no fault in what transpired between her and Gottwald. She was granted the ability to record WITHOUT Lukasz and she still wanted out of the contract. They probably felt that she was using this as a backdoor to get out of her overall contract and they weren't going to even entertain that idea. 100% this. I have no reason not to believe Kesha but the way this is all going down is kind of strange. The fact that she was offered the opportunity not to work with him but dismissed it because she was afraid of not being properly promoted is..confusing. How does she/her counsel think this works? Has she pressed charges against Luke for sexual assault or abuse? Or is she just expecting the judge to take her word on it? It seems like such a central part of her lawsuit but if there hasn't been any criminal investigation, how do they expect to use that as leverage for her case? If I understand correctly, she has a lawsuit pending against Dr. Luke for the sexual assault/battery. That lawsuit hasn't gone to trial yet, so while it's pending, she filed for a preliminary injunction to start recording/releasing/touring outside of Sony because her career was being damaged while she sat on the sidelines (by her own will...Sony wants her to record and promote). If she ultimately wins the sexual assault lawsuit, getting out of the contract becomes a given. Right now, however, the alleged sexual assault is, from a *legal* perspective, just a claim that is being litigated (and also being counter-litigated). I feel like far too many people are mistaken on the process here (one of the downsides of inexperienced bloggers, let alone those hacky "shady" Twitter accounts, writing about legal matters). They see it as: "Dr Luke was found liable for rape but the judge is forcing Kesha to work with him." This was to determine if a binding contract should be temporarily broken before that liability is determined.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2016 15:51:15 GMT -5
So what are the next steps? Like what the hell is she gonna do now She doesn't. She can try to record with other artists producers, but it's ultimately up to Sony to decide what gets released, when, how it's promoted, etc. That's assuming she's even willing to work with them. There really isn't a next step for her unless both parties can come to some kind of amicable agreement behind the scenes, and I doubt that will happen. Sony hasn't taken a big hit because of this, so they have no reason to approach Kesha to reconcile. They hold all the power here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2016 21:10:38 GMT -5
Poor Kesha... I can understand why she would want to cut ties with the very label that allowed this kind of behavior to go on. 8 albums is a fuckton... I just hope that she still has a way out. </3 I hate to play the Devil's Advocate in this situation but did Sony KNOW about what was going on? According to the judge everything was very vague to them, both the judge and label, in her defense. During the court date would've been the perfect time for somebody like Kelly Clarkson or P!nk, who have known beef with him, to speak out. Not after the judgement which is such a pussy move. Don't try and give me solace after the deed with you knowing beforehand what could happen. It would not have done Kelly, Pink, Katy, whoever else who knows Luke on a personal level any good to speak up before the judgment because it's not likely that their statements could have ever helped Kesha in a legal sense. If all Kelly knows about Luke is that he's a raging douchebag that she never wants to work with again, it's not really her place to say 'well everyone knows he's a raging douchebag, so yeah he is probably also a rapist.' This is like saying "BMAC stole $1000 from me once and I know he's stolen money from other people too, so I'm pretty sure he's the one guilty of stealing soblu's car." I am sure a lot of people tweeting support are speaking from gut instinct but that doesn't necessarily mean they had anything that would have been helpful to know beforehand. It's also my own gut instinct that the extremity of Kesha's story is less likely to happen if one is not directly signed under Luke, for simple logistics/shift in power dynamic reasons if nothing else. So that's another reason a comment from other people wouldn't help. Kesha may be dealing with something other people around him never had to face. Mind you, that is all just in reference to the sexual assault stuff, and that case isn't until 2017 so there is still plenty of time for any person to offer to be a witness on Kesha's behalf if they think it would do any good (though there's a lot that might be disallowed...damn character evidence rules). The breach-of-contract argument is a different matter in which a Kelly or Pink comment would not only have been useless but also almost entirely unrelated. For the contractual discussion, Kreayshawn's tweet about getting dropped by Sony 4 days after saying she was pregnant is actually the most relevant thing to come out of this. Scarily relevant. @touch is right that a lot of the problem with the supposed breach of contract was that it all hinges on the rape accusations. Kesha really had two suits - a sexual assault case against Luke and a breach of contract case against Luke and Sony - rolled up in one messy situation. I forget who pointed this out but apparently Kesha added Sony to the breach of contract suit because she asked at first to be moved to another Sony label and they refused. On its face that shouldn't have been a problem for Sony at all, but since she was signed directly under Luke, it might have required Sony having to buy Luke out and they put their coins above her personal interests. So you have to think about this as well, at what point does Sony become liable for Luke's actions - but in order to determine that point, one has to determine what Luke's actions were. Kesha needed to separate the issues, concentrate on the assault suit first and then seek to have her contract dissolved based on that. That trial isn't even going to commence for such a long while though, so I can see why Kesha was anxious to push for a dissolution ASAP. She's pretty much put on ice for at least another year, and there's no guarantee she will prevail then either. I expect her to appeal, but that's going to drag on forever too, and I can't imagine what argument she could present to even get picked up by appellate court, let alone a reversal. Sony pretty much tied the ribbon in their favor when they offered her the accommodation of working with anyone she wanted to, vs. only Dr. Luke.....which I think they have previously refused to. A move that ironically should have been setting off red flags instead of seeming like an attempted olive branch - basically, what about the situation changed between the first refusal and the point where they said 'eh, never mind! Sure, you can move to another label.' And the only thing that changed was that Sony got thrown into the breach of contract suit. This is especially an odd change of heart if what I said above was true about them maybe needing to buy Luke out just to be able to move her. So that just seems like the label didn't want to go down with the ship, but at some point thought the odds of Kesha winning a dissolution against Luke himself might be strong and needed to find a way around being on the losing side of that. I don't disagree about contract law working as it's supposed to (by 'supposed' I really mean, 'ignoring that recording contracts are usually abhorrently lopsided anyway and there has yet to be one court concerned about this'), but this is one of those situations where you really sense the judge being too bogged down in the technicalities to dig any deeper. In the long run Sony is probably about to screw both Kesha and Luke over because both are just expendable individuals to them. Kesha was the only profitable thing Luke brought to Sony so if she's screwed over Luke can't make money off her by proxy, and Sony can slash Kemosabe's remaining budget and quietly ride that one out to its expiration (or pay him off to sever the contract and go away).
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Feb 20, 2016 21:21:46 GMT -5
Kesha is signed directly to Kemosabe is she not? What happens to her contract if the company she's signed to ceases to exist? Does Sony just buy out the contract? I'm pretty sure the contract doesn't just go away, it has to go somewhere - and if Sony lets Kemosabe cave in on itself what happens then?
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Ginger Spice
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Post by Ginger Spice on Feb 20, 2016 21:54:04 GMT -5
Kesha is signed directly to Kemosabe is she not? What happens to her contract if the company she's signed to ceases to exist? Does Sony just buy out the contract? I'm pretty sure the contract doesn't just go away, it has to go somewhere - and if Sony lets Kemosabe cave in on itself what happens then? It's a joint deal with Kemosabe and RCA, so I imagine they would keep her with RCA even if Kemosabe caves. If she was just signed to Kemosabe they would likely move her to another Sony-owned label, like how they moved all of the Jive artists to either Epic or RCA when it folded.
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Linnethia Monique
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Post by Linnethia Monique on Feb 21, 2016 0:52:01 GMT -5
Producer ran label subsets are sh!t to begin with and I'm surprised big head labels like Interscope, Sony and Columbia are still gunning for them. The plus is that you stick a popular producer, at the time, to that label for their own doing, but the end result is that nothing... well results. Timbaland and Interscope with Beat Club Records, Chad Hugo and Pharrell with Star Trak Records with Interscope and Snoop Dogg (for a single album deal) and Robin Thicke (before the fall) being profitable, JR Rotem with Beluga Heights Records with multiple distribution deals with only Jason Derulo doing something, and Jimmy Iovine backing Aftermath having Kendrick, Eminem, and 50 Cent the recent success stories even though those are subsets of subsets so the returns are even more marginal. At the end of the day artists and producers should NOT be allowed to run labels. Edit: Current artists. They make great managers and A&R reps after their prime but s**tty heads of their own labels. Ryan Leslie, Akon, and The Dream can all attest to that too.
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Feb 21, 2016 8:21:42 GMT -5
Look at Epic Records under Amanda Ghost. She had absolutely no idea how to run a label and basically destroyed the Epic imprint in the few short years she was in charge. She may have known how to write and produce a good pop song, but that's a whole other beast from running a label.
As for recording contracts being so skewed against artists, one of the big reasons why judges are hesitant to vacate them is that they're industry standard. Everybody has shitty contracts so as long as there's nothing contrary the law, they are usually left intact.
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missgenericnickname
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Post by missgenericnickname on Feb 21, 2016 13:35:29 GMT -5
Rape isn't under the breach of contract? Damn that's sad
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Post by sundaymorningguy on Feb 21, 2016 18:07:34 GMT -5
I would imagine rape would allow for a breach of contract, but the thing again that everyone is forgetting is that this is alleged not proven yet. Now with the accusation out there would Sony have been wise to have intervened before this turned as messy as it did sure. You have to be careful though because with two parties how you act depending on court rulings can lead to suits brought to your door. I can understand the difficulty this places Sony under as this can potentially lead to a lawsuit against them for any bad moves on their part in which they support the story of either party and it is proven the party they chose lost. The smart move for Sony probably would have been to pay to get them both off the label and let them hash out any bad blood between each other in court.
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Feb 21, 2016 19:04:55 GMT -5
I am impressed so many celebs have stepped out to support Kesha lately, including a few that have actually worked with Dr. Luke. I didn't expect it since people tend to (for valid and other reasons) keep quiet on subjects like these. The negative attention has definitely been more than I expected, but legally I understand where Sony and the judge are coming from. I believe Kesha, but at this point it is just an allegation and technically she can work with other producers (even though I strongly suspect any attempts in that regard would be sabotaged).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2016 21:41:20 GMT -5
I think a big reason for the outpouring of celebrity support is the way this story is being spun. Pretty much every article I've seen tells this in such click-baity, misleading language.
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Feb 21, 2016 22:57:56 GMT -5
Rape isn't under the breach of contract? Damn that's sad Rape/sexual assault confirmed by the court (liable in civil or guilty in criminal) surely would lead to the voiding of the contract. That will be determined in the (2017?) court hearing. Until then, it's just an allegation. And an allegation of rape does not void the contract. In other news...
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Feb 21, 2016 23:04:03 GMT -5
LOL I am dead. Is that true? People were ROASTING her for being a "fake feminist" for not supporting Kesha earlier.
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