Billboard Hot 100: 12/21/2013

[Glove Slap]

People who are whining about the lack of "legends" in recent years need to look at the world around them and how it has changed. Certain celebrities were idolized because they represented the impossible, the almost couldn't be seen and the far away. Internet and social media have taken that over now. You can connect to what you want, know what you want to know, and look into where you want to look to get knowledge. "Idols" like Elvis Presley, John Lennon, Michael Jackson, Madonna, etc. are significantly obsolete now because what they represented does not need such monolithic icons anymore, it can be seen all around. And that is a good thing, it's evolution.

[HolidayGuy]

Not sure why anyone's questioning RiRi's chart feats- it's kinda the modern-day equivalent of people questioning Mimi's because of Sony's aggressive marketing tactics in the 90s. The stats are what they are.

[Glove Slap]

If anything, today's chart stats are more reliable than ever before. Certainly more reliable than before 1991.

Before the soundscan era, it was much much easier for labels to actually manipulate data and what was sent in my radio stations and record stores. That's how they compiled the BB 200 and the Hot 100 back then. If you want to question things, question what happened back then.

[Deleted]

You can't really compare to older artists with any reliability. Rihanna has 13 #1's. So does Michael Jackson. This is more than Madonna.

If Madonna and Michael Jackson were hot in the digital era/streaming era/featuring era I would bet we would be having a different conversation

[HolidayGuy]

Yes- it was a different time. Hence Billboard weighting pre-BDS/-SoundScan eras to account for the differences in methodology. back then, it was the best with what they had at their disposal-- same with Cashbox, Record World, Radio & Records, etc.

[jenglisbe]

Dec 12, 2013 22:33:43 GMT -5 HolidayGuy said:

Not sure why anyone's questioning RiRi's chart feats- it's kinda the modern-day equivalent of people questioning Mimi's because of Sony's aggressive marketing tactics in the 90s. The stats are what they are.

That's rich coming from you!

The funny thing about that Mariah shade is that the single with the most obvious "tactics" didn't even go to #1 (i.e. "Loverboy"). She also has 1 more hits that should be #1 but weren't, so at worst it events out ("AIWFCIY" being the most obvious example).

[HolidayGuy]

^And why exactly is that "rich" coming from me? It's the truth, as you should know- it's dogged her for years. I always have said that it's marketing, not "cheating" or any other nonsense like that, anyhow. Chart positions were very important to the label.

Whether we like it not, Rihanna's stats are what they are, and whether she's lead or featured, it still counts as a No. 1. She was at No. 15 on the latest Top 100 acts list- and she's coming for the wigs of all those in front of her. For something like "The Monster," she only gets 30% of the points based on its week-to-week rankings, but she's very young in this game and probably has plenty left in her. She and the label will press on, I'm sure.

[The Upper Hand]

Dec 12, 2013 22:33:43 GMT -5 HolidayGuy said:

Not sure why anyone's questioning RiRi's chart feats- it's kinda the modern-day equivalent of people questioning Mimi's because of Sony's aggressive marketing tactics in the 90s. The stats are what they are.

Which were those "agressive marketing tactics" and why are they comparable to Rihanna's featurings as a way to underestimate #1's songs?

[Deleted]

Dec 12, 2013 23:24:55 GMT -5 The Upper Hand said:

Dec 12, 2013 22:33:43 GMT -5 HolidayGuy said:

Not sure why anyone's questioning RiRi's chart feats- it's kinda the modern-day equivalent of people questioning Mimi's because of Sony's aggressive marketing tactics in the 90s. The stats are what they are.

Which were those "agressive marketing tactics" and why are they comparable to Rihanna's featurings as a way to underestimate #1's songs?

Sony was notorious for price slashing (singles for around $1 or less) and discontinuing production of one of their artist's singles in order to allow another one of their artist's singles to reach the top. People often speak about it like it was something they only did for Mariah, but they did it for a lot of other major acts too.

[pnobelysk]

Dec 12, 2013 19:54:08 GMT -5 Lockheart said:

Dec 12, 2013 18:37:43 GMT -5 slw84 said:

Hmm...still stand by my prediction but ok.

Forgot about Usher, JLO and Shakira

Theres nothing impressive about JLo's career, neither her music or movie career lol.

I'm not that big of a jlo fan but come on now I just looked up her chart and sales history.

In the US alone :
2 number 1 albums that have sold 3.8 million units and 1.5' million units
2 number 2 albums
4 hot 100 number 1s as well as tons of other top 10s

[Deleted]

Dec 12, 2013 22:54:34 GMT -5 HolidayGuy said:

^And why exactly is that "rich" coming from me? It's the truth, as you should know- it's dogged her for years. I always have said that it's marketing, not "cheating" or any other nonsense like that, anyhow. Chart positions were very important to the label.

Whether we like it not, Rihanna's stats are what they are, and whether she's lead or featured, it still counts as a No. 1. She was at No. 15 on the latest Top 100 acts list- and she's coming for the wigs of all those in front of her. For something like "The Monster," she only gets 30% of the points based on its week-to-week rankings, but she's very young in this game and probably has plenty left in her. She and the label will press on, I'm sure.

And one day the #1 hits for Rihanna will stop coming. It happens to (nearly) everyone and it will happen to her as well. The only other unknowns

left to be seen are when it will happen, and how many #1's will she have accumulated by then.




I added nearly because in the case of the Beatles they bowed out on their own, but even as they did, they still continued to collect #1 songs.   Who knows when the #1's might have ended for them if they had stayed together?    Although eventually they would have ended for them too.

[superbu]

Dec 11, 2013 22:43:34 GMT -5 renfield75 said:

Dec 11, 2013 17:27:37 GMT -5 jebsib said:

^ Ah, thanks, HG. It does get a little muddled.

Whitburn no longer counts featurings in #1 tallies, so he would list Rihanna at only 10. In this age of internet articles on EW and Billboard and vocal fan wars, I'm not sure this is the way to go (conflicting so dramatically with BB). Record Research's attitude is that the bulk of featured artists are disposable, interchangeable and secondary to the primary artist. That sounds reasonable when its a twenty second rap by an unknown artist, but these high profile collabos are more like duets, relying heavily on crucial chorus based vocal hooks.

Honestly, I think Joel got his panties in a bunch over featurings in this last edition of his book just so he can keep Elvis at #1 on the all-time lists. That's why he gives Elvis credit for more #1s and top tens than Billboard does (even with Billboard counting his pre-Hot 100 entries). He still lists Mariah below Elvis for #1s and Madonna below him for top tens. When Glee passed Elvis, he discredited them as a revolving troupe of singers instead of a regular recording act and removed them from the list. When Lil Wayne passed Elvis he said featuring credits no longer count. Mark my words, if Taylor Swift passes Elvis he will split the digital age into a separate listing.

I love his books but his Elvis bias is a little ridiculous.

Well, I will agree with Whitburn over Billboard on Elvis's Top Ten counts. Billboard is ignoring their own major chart, the Top 100, which was compiled the same way that the Hot 100 would be -- a sales/airplay/jukebox combo. On it, Elvis had two double-sided hits with single sides ranking separately. Elvis had 38 top ten songs in Billboard. Their sales chart combined singles sides into one entry, which is why that chart only shows Elvis with 36 top tens. To say that those charting songs don't count now because they were sides, not "singles," is like saying that tracks purchased from albums that are not available as stand-alone singles shouldn't count towards an artist's tally because they are not technically "singles." If you want to get that technical, then Rihanna has far fewer top ten "singles," because many of them weren't "singles" at all, but album tracks. Elvis had 38 top ten pop hits in Billboard, provable fact, and it really doesn't matter if Billboard wants to play revisionist history on that.

[Lozzy]

Dec 13, 2013 1:38:00 GMT -5 superbu said:

If you want to get that technical, then Rihanna has far fewer top ten "singles," because many of them weren't "singles" at all, but album tracks.

Not terribly important but I don't think Rihanna has had any album tracks go top 10.

[jenglisbe]

Dec 12, 2013 23:28:43 GMT -5 @jazzysoul47 said:

Dec 12, 2013 23:24:55 GMT -5 The Upper Hand said:

Which were those "agressive marketing tactics" and why are they comparable to Rihanna's featurings as a way to underestimate #1's songs?

Sony was notorious for price slashing (singles for around $1 or less) and discontinuing production of one of their artist's singles in order to allow another one of their artist's singles to reach the top. People often speak about it like it was something they only did for Mariah, but they did it for a lot of other major acts too.

A lot of that is exaggerated. The only time Sony stopped production of a single and it possibly helped Mariah get a #1 was "because You Loved Me." That was standard for Sony, then, though, as their aim was selling albums. "Fantasy" and "One Sweet Day" were both deleted singles, too (and were released before "because You loved Me"). ["i'll be There" was a limited single in 1992, and "Heartbreaker" and "TGiFY" were limited as well, and all probably would have had more weeks at #1 if they weren't.] And if anyone acts like "Always be My baby" wasn't big enough to be #1, they are delusional.

i still want some receipts on which singles had a price cut. The only single i saw cheap was "Loverboy," and again that didn't even go to #1. Plus i saw plenty of other singles for cheap in general. Mariah wasn't the only one.

[HolidayGuy]

^True, there were other singles that were discounted, too. It's just that Sony was the most consistent, and often discounted them deeper than others, overall.

A couple of articles (the first, interestingly, by Roger Friedman, who later would become a Mimi champion)
www.foxnews.com/story/2001/07/30/did-mariahrsquos-loverboy-cause-her-breakdown/
www.nytimes.com/1996/01/25/arts/are-pop-charts-manipulated.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

In the pages of Billboard, when "My All" debuted, it mentioned the deep discount.

Island has been less aggressive in its marketing than Sony or Virgin, though there was that "Win-Dinner-With-Mariah" promotion it had when "Shake it Off" was out.

[colson]

In 1993, I remember when Virgin had deeply discounted Janet's "Again" when it was stalling before it hit #1. I saw the cassette single on sale at Sam Goody for 49 cents.

[HolidayGuy]

^Very possible- and we should note that the level of discounts probably differed from outlet to outlet.

Another thing that casts a shadow over Mimi's notable chart achievements- she married the president of one of the biggest music companies in the world. Did that mean more investment in her success and marketing than others? Could be- but, that's just what it is- marketing.

[colson]

Yet she had #1s way before they were dating and married and way after they were divorced.lol

[HolidayGuy]

^Yes, but, a good amount did come during the "relationship" years, and, of course, most came during the Sony years. Thereafter, it was expected, thereafter, that she wouldn't rack up the No. 1s like she did in the Sony years.

In any event, the fun thing now will be to see if Rihanna continues to rack them up, and what means her label will go to to boost all of the chart potential.

[colson]

So you are implying that she didn't "earn" her #1s because she was associated with Tommy?lol Every major act for a label that has had success is specially more marketed than others. For some people the music and talent speaks for itself and for others they have to use means outside of the music to get attention for it, whether it's using sex or some staged publicity stunts. Marketing is marketing.

[HolidayGuy]

Not at all- I stated that it was marketing. Now why try to bring other acts into it, that have nothing to do with it. (In any event, for some one act in particular- the cultural button-pushing "stunts" in the 80s and 90s related to the work enhanced the great music, and ensured the incomparable status.)

[areyoureadytojump]

www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/5839559/chart-moves-lorde-performs-team-building-exercise-bruce-springsteen-u2

Chart Moves: Lorde Performs 'Team'-Building Exercise; Bruce Springsteen, U2 Return; Johnny Mathis Notches Highest-Charting AC Hit Since 1978

By Gary Trust, New York | December 13, 2013

As previously reported, Eminem and Rihanna roar to No. 1 on the Billboard Hot 100 with "The Monster." Who else scares up notable chart moves this week?

-- Imagine Dragons, AWOLNATION: As 2013 comes to close, a significant Billboard Hot 100 record could fall early next year. Imagine Dragons' "Radioactive" (No. 25) and AWOLNATION's "Sail" (No. 35) log their respective 67th and 66th weeks on the chart. With their continued extended stays, the songs rank as the fourth- and fifth-longest-charting entries, respectively, in the Hot 100's 55-year history. They could challenge for the all-time longevity mark, held by Jason Mraz's "I'm Yours" (76 weeks; 2008-09). LeAnn Rimes' "How Do I Live" boasts the second-longest Hot 100 run (69; 1997-98), followed by LMFAO's "Party Rock Anthem" (68; 2011-12).

-- Mariah Carey: Like Santa, Carey's 1994 carol "All I Want for Christmas Is You" makes its annual return, re-entering the Hot 100 at No. 26. It surges by 85% to 1.5 million U.S. streams, according to Nielsen BDS, and tops Holiday Streaming Songs for a second week. The song charted highest on the Hot 100 last holiday season, reaching No. 21.

-- Lorde: She follows her debut nine-week Hot 100 No. 1 "Royals" (3-4) with her second top 40 hit. Following the release of its official video on Dec. 3, "Team" (57-32) scales all three of the Hot 100's component charts, entering Streaming Songs at No. 42 (1.4 million, up 87%) and Hot 100 Airplay at No. 44 (28 million audience impressions, up 33%, according to BDS), while re-entering at a new peak (No. 37) on Hot Digital Songs (32,000, up 32%, according to Nielsen SoundScan).

-- Parmalee: The band achieves its first Country Airplay leader with "Carolina," which jumps 3-1 in its 44th chart week (and rises 46-43 on the Hot 100). Parmalee is the fourth act to achieve its first Country Airplay No. 1 this year, following Thomas Rhett ("It Goes Like This"), Brett Eldredge ("Don't Ya") and Randy Houser ("How Country Feels").

-- John Mayer, Katy Perry: The couple enters the Hot 100 at No. 80 with "Who You Love." The ballad gains by 699% to 35,000 downloads sold after it was released as a digital single featuring much-buzzed-about black-and-white artwork featuring the singers/boyfriend-and-girlfriend.

-- Kelly Clarkson: "Underneath the Tree" decorates the Hot 100 at No. 92. The song spends a second week at No. 1 on Adult Contemporary, where Clarkson also enters the top 10 with two other cuts from her holiday album "Wrapped in Red": "Blue Christmas" (12-7) and "Please Come Home for Christmas (Bells Will Be Ringing)" (13-8).

-- Lupe Fiasco, Ed Sheeran: Fiasco scores his fourth top 10 on the Rhythmic airplay chart, as his Sheeran-assisted "Old School Love" steps 11-10 (and enters the Hot 100 at No. 95). The song's surge was led by KQKS Denver, which played the song 95 times in the Dec. 2-8 BDS tracking week.

-- Arctic Monkeys: Appearing on Billboard charts since 2005, the British quartet makes its first Hot 100 visit, as "Do I Wanna Know?" debuts at No. 99. The track spends a second week at its No. 3 peak to date on Alternative, where it's the band's highest-charting hit.

-- Bruce Springsteen: The Boss revisits the Triple A airplay chart, as "High Hopes" debuts at No. 22 with Greatest Gainer honors. The song doubles as the title cut of his new album (due Jan. 14), which includes the E Street Band, as well as guitarist Tom Morello, who joined the lineup for Australian tour dates in March (filling in for Steve Van Zandt). "I had cut 'High Hopes,' a song by Tim Scott McConnell of the Havalinas, in the '90s," Springsteen reveals in the set's liner notes. "We worked it up in our Aussie rehearsals and Tom then proceeded to burn the house down with it."

-- U2: The band likewise returns to Triple A with "Ordinary Love" at No. 24. It starts on Rock Digital Songs at No. 37 with 7,000 downloads sold. The song appears on the soundtrack to the biopic "Mandela: Long Walk to Freedom," which was released on Nov. 29, less than a week before former South African President and renowned activist Nelson Mandela died. (Having also been released as a 10-inch vinyl single for the Nov. 29 Black Friday-themed Record Store Day, the track, U2's first new recording since 2010, debuted last week at No. 1 on Hot Singles Sales with 2,000 sold.)

-- Icona Pop: The act captures its first No. 1 on Dance Club Songs with "All Night" (3-1). Remixes from Cash Cash, Wayne G and LFB, K. Flay and Crazibiza, among others, have contributed to its club play. Icona Pop's breakthrough track "I Love It" reached No. 7 on the Hot 100 earlier this year. Not promoted to clubs, its mainstream popularity nevertheless helped it reach No. 25 on Dance Club Songs in a whopping 32-week chart run. That's the longest stay for any song since the chart became song-specific in February 1991. (Before then, multiple cuts from albums or 12-inch singles sometimes charted as one entry.)

-- Jose Feliciano: On Latin Digital Songs, his "Feliz Navidad" climbs 2-1 to mark the song's 12th week atop the chart. The track sold 11,000 digital downloads last week, a 68% increase. The holiday favorite has reached No. 1 in the weeks surrounding Christmas each year since the chart’s inception in 2010.

-- Johnny Mathis: With "Sending You a Little Christmas," with Jim Brickman, the legendary Mathis is enjoying his milestone 50th hit on Adult Contemporary chart, as well as his highest-charting song (11-4) on the list since 1978 (when "Too Much, Too Little, Too Late," with Deniece Williams, reached No. 1). Mathis tells Billboard why he thinks his many Christmas recordings continue to resonate so well: "I got the opportunity to record the album "Merry Christmas" in 1958 with the great Percy Faith and his Orchestra. I think it laid a good foundation for recording future Christmas albums. This time of year is very special for me. There were seven of us growing up and my mom and dad always made it such a wonderful, magical time."

As for Mathis' plans to celebrate this season? "I'm looking forward to spending the holidays with my brothers, sisters, nieces and nephews."

Additional reporting by Wade Jessen, Amaya Mendizabal, Gordon Murray and Rauly Ramirez

[HolidayGuy]

A 10-inch vinyl.