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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on Jan 26, 2014 19:04:27 GMT -5
Ill say it again radio needs to be relegated to tv ad status. It can generate sales and streaming activity but in no way should it be included on the hot 100 since there are better methods of measuring popularity. There is no way 200million people have heard a song in a single week.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Jan 26, 2014 19:40:10 GMT -5
^It's never been about unique audience impressions. In the UK, the audience impressions for "Happy" exceed the country's population.
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WotUNeed
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Post by WotUNeed on Jan 26, 2014 19:43:18 GMT -5
^It's never been about unique audience impressions. In the UK, the audience impressions for "Happy" exceed the country's population. Not that I agree with radio's removal from the Hot 100 formula, but your example kind of supports his point since The Official Chart in the UK does not use radio play. |
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Jan 26, 2014 19:47:05 GMT -5
Was just saying that it doesn't represent unique listens, not that it shouldn't be part of the Hot 100 equation. I know the official UK chart is sales-based- it has been for its history, just as airplay has been part of the Hot 100 equation. And I doubt that's going to change.
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WotUNeed
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Post by WotUNeed on Jan 26, 2014 19:50:13 GMT -5
Was just saying that it doesn't represent unique listens, not that it shouldn't be part of the Hot 100 equation. I know the official UK chart is sales-based- it has been for its history, just as airplay has been part of the Hot 100 equation. And I doubt that's going to change. I know, but the way you made your post made it look like you were correcting Adonis, when in fact he'd said the same thing (that audience impressions don't represent unique listeners) and that was a reason he was giving for why airplay shouldn't be a component of the Hot 100 in his opinion. In any event, trivial clarification since I guess we're all on the same page and just didn't realize it. Carry on. |
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Jan 26, 2014 19:56:49 GMT -5
I took it as him questioning the methodology in which airplay stats are computed and their significance (or lack thereof), as he didn't say anything about "unique" listeners. But, you're right- doesn't matter too much in the grand scheme of the discussion. :)
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Au$tin
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Post by Au$tin on Jan 27, 2014 0:56:15 GMT -5
Ill say it again radio needs to be relegated to tv ad status. It can generate sales and streaming activity but in no way should it be included on the hot 100 since there are better methods of measuring popularity. There is no way 200million people have heard a song in a single week. AI is how many times a song was heard, not how many people heard the song. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2014 0:59:14 GMT -5
Ill say it again radio needs to be relegated to tv ad status. It can generate sales and streaming activity but in no way should it be included on the hot 100 since there are better methods of measuring popularity. There is no way 200million people have heard a song in a single week. That's not what audience impressions imply. 200 million AI could mean 2 million people each heard the song 100 times (I guess you're referring to Blurred Lines' immense radio audience in August-September 2013). |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2014 1:00:46 GMT -5
Ill say it again radio needs to be relegated to tv ad status. It can generate sales and streaming activity but in no way should it be included on the hot 100 since there are better methods of measuring popularity. There is no way 200million people have heard a song in a single week. AI is how many times a song was heard, not how many people heard the song. Yeah it could be 2 million people each heard it 100 times (with how overplayed BL was, I'm sure there were people who heard it more than 100 times on the radio within a week, even without changing the station.) |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2014 1:02:28 GMT -5
I know this is a bit off-topic, but I'm glad for M&RL, DP and ID for winning their awards! Especially DP they won like five awards lol  |
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on Jan 27, 2014 1:14:02 GMT -5
Ill say it again radio needs to be relegated to tv ad status. It can generate sales and streaming activity but in no way should it be included on the hot 100 since there are better methods of measuring popularity. There is no way 200million people have heard a song in a single week. AI is how many times a song was heard, not how many people heard the song. Its a rough guess at best. Radio airplay is no longer needed now that we have on demand and streaming added into the hot 100. Radio airplay isn't user generated plays on any level and can be bought by labels. Streaming, On Demand and Sales the user has control of what is being played plus its accuracy is unmatched by radio and cant be matched by traditional radio. The audience numbers are at best a guess as to what people listen to. If radio went online, then it would fall into the streaming category or on demand category which can be accurately tracked. There is a HUGE discrepancy....people only listen to songs 1-2% as much as is implied by radio....to me looking at this data week after week it seems like a HUGE discrepancy. Why should radio get to count imaginary "audience impressions" towards the HOT 100 when streaming and on demand exists....which more accurately measure what audience impressions are supposed to? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2014 1:36:05 GMT -5
Radio airplay isn't user generated plays on any level and can be bought by labels. Not really true. Certain songs get played more because they are requested more; and if a song is being requested more then obviously that means that more people like it so in a way that does measure popularity a lot. Of course there are exceptions such as in 2013 Chris Brown's "Fine China" and Krewella's "Alive" which both hit the top 20 on radio songs but neither of which hit the top 30 on the hot 100. This is, however, rare and generally not the case. |
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on Jan 27, 2014 1:39:18 GMT -5
Radio airplay isn't user generated plays on any level and can be bought by labels. Not really true. Certain songs get played more because they are requested more; and if a song is being requested more then obviously that means that more people like it so in a way that does measure popularity a lot. Of course there are exceptions such as in 2013 Chris Brown's "Fine China" and Krewella's "Alive" which both hit the top 20 on radio songs but neither of which hit the top 30 on the hot 100. This is, however, rare and generally not the case. Thats not true. Radio doesnt even care about requests... You cant just request a song that the station hasnt added. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2014 1:53:06 GMT -5
Not really true. Certain songs get played more because they are requested more; and if a song is being requested more then obviously that means that more people like it so in a way that does measure popularity a lot. Of course there are exceptions such as in 2013 Chris Brown's "Fine China" and Krewella's "Alive" which both hit the top 20 on radio songs but neither of which hit the top 30 on the hot 100. This is, however, rare and generally not the case. Thats not true. Radio doesnt even care about requests... You cant just request a song that the station hasnt added. Well usually it's the ones that the radio has already added that get requested the most because they're the most popular ones |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2014 3:26:25 GMT -5
I hope Radioactive stays in the top 50 this week so that it could bounce back up into the top 40 following post-Grammy sales (and to some extent I assume radio and streaming as well) impact and hopefully stay on long enough to beat the record! That's what I'm most worried about right now tbh lol
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jayhawk1117
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Post by jayhawk1117 on Jan 27, 2014 5:38:27 GMT -5
I have to agree. Royals is slow, boring, and Lorde's voice is severely overrated. I really hope she doesn't win a single Grammy tonight. I am catching on to Team, however, so I will admit she's not horrible, just not as good as she thinks she is. Well she won two so..... |
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Post by Push The Button on Jan 27, 2014 5:46:53 GMT -5
Why should radio get to count imaginary "audience impressions" towards the HOT 100 when streaming and on demand exists....which more accurately measure what audience impressions are supposed to? Because there are millions and millions of people who are hearing "Blurred Lines" on the radio and not on YouTube or Spotify. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2014 6:07:07 GMT -5
^ to the guy who said streaming accurately measures popularity of a song: Harlem Shake had such immense streaming figures, but it's quite obvious that no one ever non-ironically said "hey I want to watch those HS dance memes because I really want to listen to that song (or, more accurately speaking, a 30-second snippet of it)" which is why those 5 weeks at #1 were complete BS and still disappoint me to this day because TS could have and should have gotten 11 weeks at #1 on the Hot 100. Radio measures popularity much more accurately than streaming in most cases if you ask me. Streaming has so many cases such as HS where more than 90% of the streaming comes from reasons other than the desire to actually listen to the song itself (as depressing as it is, Miley Cyrus's songs were a good example of this too. Don't tell me WB wasn't #1 for 12 weeks on Streaming because Miley is naked and licking hammers and stupid sh!t like that which for some reason people enjoy and that WCS wasn't #1 for 11 weeks on it for similar reasons).
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Tortuga
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Post by Tortuga on Jan 27, 2014 7:09:14 GMT -5
BRITNEY SPEARS – Now That I Found You: 0.096 (+ 0.006) This should be a single, what about It Should Be Easy? |
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#Joseph.T
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Post by #Joseph.T on Jan 27, 2014 7:35:27 GMT -5
1. ONEREPUBLIC – Counting Stars: 192.087 (+ 0.164)
2. PITBULL – Timber f/Ke$ha: 173.254 (- 0.586)
3. EMINEM – The Monster f/Rihanna: 169.414 (- 1.562)
4. KATY PERRY – Dark Horse: 127.993 (+ 3.163)
5. ELLIE GOULDING – Burn: 122.401 (+ 1.506) ▲
6. LORDE – Royals: 120.581 (- 0.754) ▼
7. AVICII – Wake Me Up: 117.907 (- 1.544)
8. PASSENGER – Let Her Go: 116.269 (+ 0.239)
9. LORDE – Team: 114.258 (+ 1.570) ▲
10. IMAGINE DRAGONS – Demons: 112.770 (- 1.147) ▼
11. ONE DIRECTION – Story Of My Life: 112.453 (+ 0.639)
12. A GREAT BIG WORLD – Say Something w/C. Aguilera: 106.493 (+ 1.027)
13. ZEDD – Stay The Night f/H. Williams: 94.409 (+ 0.167)
14. DRAKE – Hold On We’re, Going Home: 88.801 (- 1.751)
15. BASTILLE – Pompeii: 84.831 (+ 1.460) ▲
16. LADY GAGA – Do What U Want f/R. Kelly: 82.576 (- 1.410) ▼
17. BEYONCÉ – Drunk In Love f/Jay Z: 75.390 (+ 0.995)
18. KATY PERRY – Roar: 70.800 (- 0.819)
19. KID INK – Show Me f/Chris Brown: 70.194 (+ 1.439) ▲
20. NEIGHBOURHOOD – Sweater Weather: 69.347 (- 1.149) ▼
LUKE BRYAN – Drink A Beer: 66.414 (+ 0.449)
DAVID NAIL – Whatever She’s Got: 66.389 (+ 0.628)
COLE SWINDELL – Chillin’ It: 63.652 (+ 0.401)
ERIC PASLAY – Friday Night: 61.785 (+ 0.821)
JASON ALDEAN – When She Says Baby: 55.535 (+ 0.259)
AMERICAN AUTHORS – Best Day Of My Life: 53.010 (+ 1.646)
LADY ANTEBELLUM – Compass: 51.365 (+ 1.377)
BRUNO MARS – Young Girls: 49.108 (+ 1.274)
JASON DERULO – Talk Dirty f/2 Chainz: 49.031 (+ 2.511)
JOHN NEWMAN – Love Me Again: 48.685 (+ 1.195)
CASSADEE POPE – Wasting All These Tears: 47.536 (- 0.183)
BEYONCE – XO: 37.582 (+ 0.457)
BLAKE SHELTON – Doin’ What She Likes: 36.529 (+ 1.328)
JOHN LEGEND – All Of Me: 30.727 (+ 0.849)
PHARRELL WILLIAMS – Happy: 29.496 (+ 3.438)
CALVIN HARRIS – Thinking About You: 27.906 (+ 0.197)
MILEY CYRUS – Adore You: 27.647 (+ 0.979)
FRAY – Love Don’t Die: 27.475 (+ 0.165)
DEMI LOVATO – Neon Lights: 23.342 (+ 0.461)
SHAKIRA F/RIHANNA – Can’t Remember To Forget You: 20.051 (+ 1.468)
AVICII – Hey Brother: 18.778 (+ 0.228)
CHRIS BROWN – Loyal f/Lil’ Wayne: 17.973 (+ 0.622)
ALOE BLACC – The Man: 13.492 (+ 1.906)
FOSTER THE PEOPLE – Coming Of Age: 8.281 (+ 0.316)
NEON TREES – Sleeping With A Friend: 6.584 (+ 0.388)
IMAGINE DRAGONS – On Top Of The World: 5.818 (- 0.020)
NAUGHTY BOY – La La La f/Sam Smith: 3.516 (+ 0.131)
DISCLOSURE – Latch f/Sam Smith: 2.360 (+ 0.427)
AUSTIN MAHONE – Mmm Yeah f/Pitbull: 0.643
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Post by ListenToItTwice on Jan 27, 2014 8:06:22 GMT -5
Wouldn't it be terrible if the Grammys had the same effect on radio that they did on sales and we got a second mini-freeze from "Get Lucky," "Royals," and "Suit and Tie" gaining airplay?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2014 8:38:34 GMT -5
Wouldn't it be terrible if the Grammys had the same effect on radio that they did on sales and we got a second mini-freeze from "Get Lucky," "Royals," and "Suit and Tie" gaining airplay? yeah,it would be terrible a bit  |
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on Jan 27, 2014 9:34:59 GMT -5
^ to the guy who said streaming accurately measures popularity of a song: Harlem Shake had such immense streaming figures, but it's quite obvious that no one ever non-ironically said "hey I want to watch those HS dance memes because I really want to listen to that song (or, more accurately speaking, a 30-second snippet of it)" which is why those 5 weeks at #1 were complete BS and still disappoint me to this day because TS could have and should have gotten 11 weeks at #1 on the Hot 100. Radio measures popularity much more accurately than streaming in most cases if you ask me. Streaming has so many cases such as HS where more than 90% of the streaming comes from reasons other than the desire to actually listen to the song itself (as depressing as it is, Miley Cyrus's songs were a good example of this too. Don't tell me WB wasn't #1 for 12 weeks on Streaming because Miley is naked and licking hammers and stupid sh!t like that which for some reason people enjoy and that WCS wasn't #1 for 11 weeks on it for similar reasons). People were actually exposed to HS and it is adjusted for uniqueness to some extent based on ip address and clip. The fact that people were inspired to make a clip on serves to show its popularity and increase its popularity. Radio has the same people being counted over and over again to the tune of 100 or 200 million impressions. Couple that with the fact audience figures are at best a guess. Its more inaccurate than streaming as a measure of popularity. The songs have to be "added" to get significant airplay. So there are hurdles to go through and thats before the listener gets to decide. Radio isnt a democracy like streaming, on demand and sales....which are user generated measures of popularity. Its songs the md or pd have picked for 100's of millions of people.... Who they hope will like it. There is nothing organic about someone deciding for the listener what they should listen to and when they should listen to it. |
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mluv
Gold Member
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Post by mluv on Jan 27, 2014 10:03:13 GMT -5
Both streaming and radio has their uses and both don't measure unique visitors. Not only do some people listen to streams more than once, you have the fans and sometimes the artist try to game the system with streaming. They leave the song on repeat to generate views. While YouTube supposedly will eliminate any bot generated views, you can hit that refresh over & over and if you're a dedicated fan you do that. Because of flaws in both system they both need to be taken into account. And you cannot dismiss radio and say how archaic it is when it's very obvious how much radio play still helps in sales. You only have to look at any song that finally cross over to pop from say Alternative to see the immediate boost it gives the song. Bastille and Pompei is a great example of that. That song has been played for quite a while on Alternative and it has several million YouTube views but it's only when it crossed over to Pop that it suddenly got into the top 10 on itunes. That shows Radio still has power.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Jan 27, 2014 10:12:28 GMT -5
Ye, streaming isn't any different than airplay, really, in terms of not having unique listens. But, same could be said for sales, but probably to a lesser degree (probably moreso in the pre-iTunes era).
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jma
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Post by jma on Jan 27, 2014 11:42:43 GMT -5
NAUGHTY BOY – La La La f/Sam Smith: 3.516 (+ 0.131)
DISCLOSURE – Latch f/Sam Smith: 2.360 (+ 0.427
Top 2 in airplay come March 30th (in a perfect world)
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moore746
Gold Member
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Posts: 832
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Post by moore746 on Jan 27, 2014 12:04:54 GMT -5
Is any measure perfect though? Digital Songs doesn't take into effect album sales, which hurts song chart positions for artists like Adele or Eminem.
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on Jan 27, 2014 12:49:21 GMT -5
Both streaming and radio has their uses and both don't measure unique visitors. Not only do some people listen to streams more than once, you have the fans and sometimes the artist try to game the system with streaming. They leave the song on repeat to generate views. While YouTube supposedly will eliminate any bot generated views, you can hit that refresh over & over and if you're a dedicated fan you do that. Because of flaws in both system they both need to be taken into account. And you cannot dismiss radio and say how archaic it is when it's very obvious how much radio play still helps in sales. You only have to look at any song that finally cross over to pop from say Alternative to see the immediate boost it gives the song. Bastille and Pompei is a great example of that. That song has been played for quite a while on Alternative and it has several million YouTube views but it's only when it crossed over to Pop that it suddenly got into the top 10 on itunes. That shows Radio still has power. That's okay. However, it shouldn't be included on the chart. The results of radio should be included on the chart. Streaming is different in that it's almost exclusively user generated and can be tracked as such. Radio can't be tracked that way. It's a technological limitation. In theory millions saw the grammy telecast, should that be counted as well? |
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Post by Push The Button on Jan 27, 2014 12:54:33 GMT -5
Why not count the songs that people hum at work everyday?
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on Jan 27, 2014 13:03:08 GMT -5
Why not count the songs that people hum at work everyday? Can we track it? TV audience is tracked in the same way Radio audience is.. with sampling, market size and what not. The Grammy's are not going to put people on stage to perform who they think people will dislike. It too drives sales and streaming. |
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