jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 27, 2024 19:13:53 GMT -5
Celine Dion has never been ahead of Mariah in domestic sales. I'ma go ahead and say again this is 100% inaccurate. I distinctly remember seeing Billboard post updated numbers years ago for the top 5 best selling female artists of the Soundscan era and Celine absolutely was only 2nd to Madonna and Mariah was 3rd. It stayed like this for years before "All I Want For Christmas Is You" started picking up pace and as a result with new SPS calculations boosted her album sales with it and she likely surpassed Celine. Celine was never 20 million units behind domestically and she absolutely lead Mariah behind Madonna for years and those are absolute facts. Sorry it's not what the popular narrative is, but it's true. And it makes sense as Celine's physical sales always outperformed Mariah's domestically up until The Emancipation Of MiMi. This is completely untrue. The only album "AIWFCIY" would even help is Merry Christmas, so it doesn't make sense to say its success boosted Mariah overall. More so, this Billboard article is from April 2008: www.billboard.com/music/music-news/mariahs-on-fire-diva-notches-sixth-no-1-album-1309567/It says: She was the top selling woman, and again that was from 2008 so from years before SPS. Also I am going by RIAA certifications since Soundscan didn't start until 1991 and leaves out some early sales for Mariah (and likely Celine). Mariah has 75 million in RIAA certified album sales, the most for any woman. Celine is at 53 million total. ( 👑 Eloquent ™ Those are Soundscan stats you posted, which are not comprehensive. For one, as I said Soundscan didn't even start until after Mariah and Celine debuted. In particular Mariah's debut sold millions of copies that are not included in her Soundscan total. Additionally Soundscan doesn't include music club sales (whereas the RIAA does). And of course now that we have SPS, those are included in the RIAA totals as well.) |
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👑 Eloquent ™
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Post by 👑 Eloquent ™ on Feb 27, 2024 19:18:59 GMT -5
Maybe I'm misremembering about Madonna, I know she's still outsold both Celine and Mariah collectively tho. Regardless Celine and Mariah were never 20 million copies apart domestically. This was 2013 after "AIWFCIY' had already started resurging and Mariah overtook Celine. As you can see, they were only 2 million apart here. I need to find those stats from before this because those are the ones I'm referencing. This was 2008 (getting closer): pulsemusic.proboards.com/thread/58856/soundscan-best-selling-artistsAccording to Paul Grein of Yahoo! Music's "Chart Watch", METALLICA is in fifth place on Nielsen SoundScan's list of top-selling album artists, with cumulative sales of 48,867,000 in the United States since the scanning service set up shop in May 1991. They'll hit the 50 million mark around the summer of 2009. The top 10 artists in Nielsen SoundScan history are, in order: 03. MARIAH CAREY: 50,004,000 04. CELINE DION: 49,951,000
www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/archive/index.php/t-151253.html
As I said Celine absolutely WAS ahead of Mariah in the 2000s (the first 5 years at the very least).
Here is another link for that 2005 figure:
www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=41&threadid=46079 |
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Feb 27, 2024 19:22:30 GMT -5
*meant to put “female artist” on my post above.
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Feb 27, 2024 19:42:26 GMT -5
Where is the actual source? That’s just a list someone posted on a forum. Whitney *I wanna see the receipts gif* |
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👑 Eloquent ™
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Post by 👑 Eloquent ™ on Feb 27, 2024 19:43:17 GMT -5
( 👑 Eloquent ™ Those are Soundscan stats you posted, which are not comprehensive. For one, as I said Soundscan didn't even start until after Mariah and Celine debuted. In particular Mariah's debut sold millions of copies that are not included in her Soundscan total. Additionally Soundscan doesn't include music club sales (whereas the RIAA does). And of course now that we have SPS, those are included in the RIAA totals as well.) Yeah and that's what I mean by an album selling 6 million copies and being certified diamond by the RIAA. The RIAA are certifications which are bought. They don't always accurately reflect sales at all. I am all about *actual sales* over how many copies the label shipped to be sold all day everyday. I've seen a lot of gross over certifications across the board. |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 27, 2024 19:44:48 GMT -5
Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... that doesn't even matter, though, as Soundscan is not complete for reasons I've mentioned. In terms of certified U.S. album sales, the official overall list is here: www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=top_tallies&ttt=TAA#search_sectionSo in terms of women: 1. Mariah - 75 million 2. Barbra - 68.5 million 3. Madonna - 65.5 million 4. Whitney - 61 million 5. Celine - 53 million That poster is trying to use Soundscan knowing full well it doesn't include the sales Madonna and Whitney had in the 1980s, nor does it include a lot of the sales for Mariah's debut album. There is no reason to use Soundscan sales in this discussion. Additionally, as I've also noted that site doesn't seem to include a lot of Asian territories where we know Mariah has done well so Mariah's totals are low.
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👑 Eloquent ™
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Post by 👑 Eloquent ™ on Feb 27, 2024 19:49:20 GMT -5
Where is the actual source? That’s just a list someone posted on a forum. Whitney *I wanna see the receipts gif* You go scour the internet for 5 hours to satisfy your own specific requirements. I know what I saw with or without the articles and I made my point very clear. It's obvious those were Soundscan articles posted on those forums and even before that I posted figures that showed their gap dwindling (less than 2 million apart and shrinking which shows it is absolutely concievable what I know to be true). As I said, they were never 20 million apart in *actual sales* and Celine absolutely was ahead of Mariah for a bit domestically. Maybe in OVERcertifications Mariah leads, but I don't personally respect certifications unless they accurately reflect sales. Anyway, glad I showed I'm not the only one who remembered this period and so I'm done with the back and forth. Have a good day. =) Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... that doesn't even matter, though, as Soundscan is not complete for reasons I've mentioned. In terms of certified U.S. album sales, the official overall list is here: www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=top_tallies&ttt=TAA#search_sectionSo in terms of women: 1. Mariah - 75 million 2. Barbra - 68.5 million 3. Madonna - 65.5 million 4. Whitney - 61 million 5. Celine - 53 million That poster is trying to use Soundscan knowing full well it doesn't include the sales Madonna and Whitney had in the 1980s, nor does it include a lot of the sales for Mariah's debut album. There is no reason to use Soundscan sales in this discussion. Additionally, as I've also noted that site doesn't seem to include a lot of Asian territories where we know Mariah has done well so Mariah's totals are low. Lol. We have two different preferred measurements. I prefer actual sales data. Actual albums sold from store in hand. You prefer certifications. Which can and are bought and paid for by labels and artists and are CONSTANTLY padded for effect. I'm not interested in how many copies Mariah's label bought to ship. It could be a 100 million and that isn't as impressive if she only sold 50 million actual albums. I've seen people claiming Butterfly needs to be certified diamond through RIAA which is insane cause it never sold anywhere close to 10 milli. But that's the thing with certs. It's a free for all. I said what I wanted to and showed my own receipts. So now I'm done with the convo. Have a good day too. 😊 |
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Coco Yu'Kneek
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Post by Coco Yu'Kneek on Feb 27, 2024 20:09:52 GMT -5
The girl is always going on about Celine ans Taylor in conversations about Mariah and Beyonce constantly can we not feed her.  |
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Feb 27, 2024 20:18:16 GMT -5
Where is the actual source? That’s just a list someone posted on a forum. Whitney *I wanna see the receipts gif* You go scour the internet for 5 hours to satisfy your own specific requirements. I know what I saw with or without the articles and I made my point very clear. It's obvious those were Soundscan articles posted on those forums and even before that I posted figures that showed their gap dwindling (less than 2 million apart and shrinking which shows it is absolutely concievable what I know to be true). As I said, they were never 20 million apart in *actual sales* and Celine absolutely was ahead of Mariah for a bit domestically. Maybe in OVERcertifications Mariah leads, but I don't personally respect certifications unless they accurately reflect sales. Anyway, glad I showed I'm not the only one who remembered this period and so I'm done with the back and forth. Have a good day. =) You’re the one trying to “satisfy” your own made up requirements without a true source. All you care about is to undermine Mariah at all costs. Have good day sweetie. Don’t let the thread door hit ya on the way out. |
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colson
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Post by colson on Feb 27, 2024 20:34:46 GMT -5
I shouldn't have brought up another act in this thread because I should have known it would attract fake unwanted trolls. But nevertheless, what I said in my initial post still stands, and that is that Mariah will pass Celine in the future in overall sales. The annual holiday momentum of her MC album and AIWFIY single will sell for years to come. Girl how old are we? Whose fake? Whose a troll? Please do tell. How long have I been participating in this forum and we're still being petty and running with a delusional narrative/petty immature insults because you don't jive with what I say and are so immersed in your fandom at your age you can't take the slightest even potentially perceivably non-glowing thing said in reference to Mariah? Please. Keep the personal jabs out of it. Girl? It would be too easy for me to call you out of your name. Although my initial post wasn't even replying to you, but if you felt compelled to respond because of your hurt feelings. So be it. Your fake condescending posts in this thread speaks for itself. The only delusional one is YOU and your pointless contributions. |
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Post by Ivy Leegue™ on Feb 27, 2024 20:58:31 GMT -5
Cool. Is Celine's thread still open and active? Yes. Why? Are people not suddenly allowed to comment on a fact that's brought up in this thread? Because that would be weird as hell. Carry on. Thanks for the edict/permission/command, baby girl! I've seen a lot weirder in my time here on Pulse, but...to each his or her own! In general though, let's chill because the last thing we need in a thread of the #1 selling female of all time is to bicker about other artists' chart feats. Sorry to those who enjoy that and discussing, at length, those other artists in Mariah's thread, or who like to argue for the sake of arguing. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Feb 27, 2024 21:00:00 GMT -5
I'ma go ahead and say again this is 100% inaccurate. I distinctly remember seeing Billboard post updated numbers years ago for the top 5 best selling female artists of the Soundscan era and Celine absolutely was only 2nd to Madonna and Mariah was 3rd. It stayed like this for years before "All I Want For Christmas Is You" started picking up pace and as a result with new SPS calculations boosted her album sales with it and she likely surpassed Celine. Celine was never 20 million units behind domestically and she absolutely lead Mariah behind Madonna for years and those are absolute facts. Sorry it's not what the popular narrative is, but it's true. And it makes sense as Celine's physical sales always outperformed Mariah's domestically up until The Emancipation Of MiMi. What are you talking about? That is simply not true. Mariah is the biggest selling Soundscan artist in history, even over Madonna. Way before AIWFCIY became the juggernaut that it is now. Soundscan is only 1991 onward, so while it’s likely true, it discounts Madonna’s 80s sales. |
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Post by imbuemyblue on Feb 27, 2024 21:26:21 GMT -5
I mean, preferring 'real' sales (I.e. Soundscan) might be great, if it didn't mean ignoring artists like Madonna, Whitney and, yes, Mariah who sold heaps of albums before we had these numbers. And while it's *possible* that there is some padding for certifications, you seem to really be discounting the importance of record clubs (for which we have little information) and of pure business pragmatism.
What good is it to pay to print and ship literal millions of albums you aren't going to sell just to get a certification (which you are also paying for)? The alleged good press you're 'buying' with that money would basically never be worth the cost you're offsetting from creating so much unnecessary product. It just wouldn't happen in a record company whose job is to make money.
'Glitter' would be the closest thing to an 'over-certified' album in Mariah's catalogue, because they printed 1 million albums in anticipation of higher sales (which it eventually crept closer to). For albums like 'Daydream' and 'Music Box', there aren't just 2 million albums chilling on a shelf somewhere. Columbia's record club sales were never released and it was likely somewhere Mariah did even better than BMG (where we have some limited information with both having sold over 700-800K IIRC).
I'm also not seeing how Celine was allegedly so far ahead of Mariah when she was only 600K ahead in August 2005. Factoring in TEOM's sales up through August 2005, it had maybe done something close to 2.5 million by then. So max Celine is ahead by 3 million? Which we can now circle back to the fact that Mariah had at least that much taken out of what would have been her Soundscan total had that technology existed before 1991.
Celine also may not have done quite as well in record clubs, or had limited runs as some artists like Janet did. She could also be more under certified than Mariah. But it's really all going to come out in the wash.
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Feb 27, 2024 21:31:24 GMT -5
What are you talking about? That is simply not true. Mariah is the biggest selling Soundscan artist in history, even over Madonna. Way before AIWFCIY became the juggernaut that it is now. Soundscan is only 1991 onward, so while it’s likely true, it discounts Madonna’s 80s sales. 100%, this we know. I mentioned Madonna cause Ava said this on the previous page: FALSE She is so fixated in AIWFCIY…ever since it went to #1. It kills her that the song takes Mariah to new heights yet also uses it as negative to say it’s the only reason she’s reaching those heights. Either way, MC DID THAT, so seethe. FALSE |
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Feb 27, 2024 21:34:38 GMT -5
I'm also not seeing how Celine was allegedly so far ahead of Mariah when she was only 600K ahead in August 2005. Factoring in TEOM's sales up through August 2005, it had maybe done something close to 2.5 million by then. So max Celine is ahead by 3 million? Which we can now circle back to the fact that Mariah had at least that much taken out of what would have been her Soundscan total had that technology existed before 1991. Where is the receipt that Celine was ahead in 2005 or prior? |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 27, 2024 21:43:20 GMT -5
I do think "overcertification" was an issue at some point, but that's all evening out now. Of course there were extra copies on shelves due to initially overestimating interest (like with Glitter as imbuemyblue mentioned), and I never really knew how things like giveaways worked but assume they counted in certifications too (cue the Brandy clip of her saying they need people to buy the album). Now that physical copies aren't really a thing, though, labels can't exactly increase shipments so certs have slowed way down. We see that with the debut not getting upped in over 20 years now, and Daydream only increasing 1 million when it was upped for the first time in a long time. With Sony updating multiple Mariah and Celine albums in the past few years, I think we can safely say their Sony albums are fairly accurate at this point (Mariah has some Universal albums that could be increased though). Whitney's team has been on top of her certs. Madonna and Janet have some albums that need to be increased too. Regardless this all start because of that site updating their estimates for Mariah's worldwide sales. I was simply pointing out their data is incomplete. |
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Coco Yu'Kneek
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Post by Coco Yu'Kneek on Feb 27, 2024 21:45:28 GMT -5
Well we can all agree buying music, running outside to purchase, certifications based on sales is far more impressive than streams and passively listening to a song on a playlist or selling keychains, whistles, Only fans day pass along with music.
Mariah, Madonna. Celine. Iconic
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Post by sundaymorningguy on Feb 28, 2024 10:32:19 GMT -5
OMG, please give us some MC16 news soon. We are arguing numbers. Release your alt rock album girl while Hall of Fame voting is still happening. Anything…
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 28, 2024 13:10:48 GMT -5
Mariah is really stanning Miley, huh?
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colson
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Post by colson on Feb 28, 2024 13:18:56 GMT -5
Maybe they have a closer friendship than what we know? This sudden fawning over each other lately has been kind of odd to me.
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Feb 28, 2024 14:03:30 GMT -5
Well we can all agree buying music, running outside to purchase, certifications based on sales is far more impressive than streams and passively listening to a song on a playlist or selling keychains, whistles, Only fans day pass along with music. Mariah, Madonna. Celine. Iconic NOT Onlyfans passes! |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 28, 2024 15:46:55 GMT -5
Just hitting these notes with ease!
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Post by sundaymorningguy on Feb 28, 2024 15:55:36 GMT -5
Maybe they have a closer friendship than what we know? This sudden fawning over each other lately has been kind of odd to me. I don’t know it kind of makes sense to me. I think they both have a similar sense of humor that is often misunderstood. I see a lot of similarities as far as the general public not quite understanding them at times. I can see it. |
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Ivy Leegue™
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Post by Ivy Leegue™ on Feb 28, 2024 16:23:12 GMT -5
Mariah is very specific about the people in the industry that she supports, so yeah, I think she definitely respects Miley's longevity in the industry, tenacity, and the fact that she has a strong sense of self and purpose, like Mariah.
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JamaicaFunk²
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Post by JamaicaFunk² on Feb 28, 2024 16:28:44 GMT -5
Mariah likes people that like her and write their own music (and Beyoncé).
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Coco Yu'Kneek
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Post by Coco Yu'Kneek on Feb 28, 2024 17:13:13 GMT -5
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cking33
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Post by cking33 on Feb 28, 2024 18:34:13 GMT -5
Mariah likes people that like her and write their own music (and Beyoncé). One thing about Mariah is she never goes after anybody that doesn't come for her first. And she's always more than open to showing public support for any artist who shows love to her. I'm sure she remembers what it was like once upon a time to go up to people like Aretha and her heroes and how they treated her, especially with Aretha, who she said always seemed to welcome her from the start. |
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Coco Yu'Kneek
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Post by Coco Yu'Kneek on Feb 28, 2024 20:07:26 GMT -5
Jealousy is a disease. Get well.
"As much as I love Mariah Carey and all that, I want to say: do me a favor and fuck off. It’s like putting me in the rap hall of fame, and I don’t want to be part of anything that mentally disturbed.”
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colson
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Post by colson on Feb 28, 2024 20:15:51 GMT -5
Who is he?
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Coco Yu'Kneek
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Post by Coco Yu'Kneek on Feb 28, 2024 20:18:43 GMT -5
Entitled White male is who he is. Has he thought for a second she is on another planet career wise? Talent? Fame?... Does he actually think he comparable to Mariah Carey?!. 😂
Unlike him she can't walk around being mediocre and get rewarded for things.
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