Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Oct 21, 2020 23:25:36 GMT -5
My All embodied the natural sexiness of Mariah. That whole video, the sound, the instruments and most of all her voice. She didnt have to do anything in her Butterfly videos that was extra she just oozed sex appeal but not in a crass way but just feminine energy. I always thought her posing and doing her Mariahism was never intended for sexuality but just her playing but maybe cause of Jeter she really was in her sexual zone on Butterfly. Anyways My All is one of the best pop ballads of its times, hands down. Omg yes. I remember I was like 10/11 when "My All" was out and I have vivid memories of seeing its video everywhere and thinking (in terms I am obviously better understanding today) how absolutely breathtaking and sensual she was so effortlessly and naturally. I don't think I have ever seen her ooze such sex appeal as effortlessly as she did there, which only emboldened the sultry flavor of the song that much more. "My All" just gave off those type of pheromones dahling. It even translated live at times, like her Divas Live performance where the woman was sex on legs.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Oct 21, 2020 23:56:47 GMT -5
Tbh it seemed like Sony still pushed her songs hard in the late 90s, so I get confused at them stalling at Pop radio (I guess she was just past her peak at the time). Even despite the Tommy drama, I do think they really were giving her a lot of dedication and tools.
"My All" had very huge promotion to go #1 and do okay.
- Sent to Pop/AC - New remix sent to Rhythmic/Urban - Music video for the original version - Music video for the remix - Single was released on CD single, cassette single, 12" Vinyl, 7" Vinyl, and even VHS Single. By 1998 so many hits weren't being released as singles period, let alone on so many formats available in rather big quantities. - Single was also nicely discounted to maximize sales
There's very few songs that come to mind that have received that level of treatment by a label. Multiple remixes, multiple music videos, different versions sent to multiple radio formats, and having a handful of configurations available for sale.
"Heartbreaker" also had them essentially spend money/promote two different versions, as did "Thank God I Found You". She had four singles worth of promotion with those 2 songs alone, so I can kinda understand why they then backed away with "Crybaby"/"Against All Odds". Rainbow wasn't selling anywhere as much as her previous albums, and to be putting large budget in single after single eventually it has to run its course. An album also having 4+ songs released physically and fully pushed in the late 90s when most hits were beginning to be airplay-only was also unrealistic. Labels were beginning to think even lead singles being released physically would hinder and deplete parent album sales, so I can't even imagine how they felt about having fourth and fifth singles released physically.
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Dreams
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Post by Dreams on Oct 22, 2020 5:29:22 GMT -5
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Post by sundaymorningguy on Oct 22, 2020 6:50:32 GMT -5
Tbh it seemed like Sony still pushed her songs hard in the late 90s, so I get confused at them stalling at Pop radio (I guess she was just past her peak at the time). Even despite the Tommy drama, I do think they really were giving her a lot of dedication and tools. "My All" had very huge promotion to go #1 and do okay. - Sent to Pop/AC - New remix sent to Rhythmic/Urban - Music video for the original version - Music video for the remix - Single was released on CD single, cassette single, 12" Vinyl, 7" Vinyl, and even VHS Single. By 1998 so many hits weren't being released as singles period, let alone on so many formats available in rather big quantities. - Single was also nicely discounted to maximize sales There's very few songs that come to mind that have received that level of treatment by a label. Multiple remixes, multiple music videos, different versions sent to multiple radio formats, and having a handful of configurations available for sale. "Heartbreaker" also had them essentially spend money/promote two different versions, as did "Thank God I Found You". She had four singles worth of promotion with those 2 songs alone, so I can kinda understand why they then backed away with "Crybaby"/"Against All Odds". Rainbow wasn't selling anywhere as much as her previous albums, and to be putting large budget in single after single eventually it has to run its course. An album also having 4+ songs released physically and fully pushed in the late 90s when most hits were beginning to be airplay-only was also unrealistic. Labels were beginning to think even lead singles being released physically would hinder and deplete parent album sales, so I can't even imagine how they felt about having fourth and fifth singles released physically. I thought they cut her budget at least for Rainbow I believe they did. I thought Mariah paid for the Heartbreaker video.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Oct 22, 2020 7:34:52 GMT -5
"Fantasy" is about to serve!
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newpower
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Post by newpower on Oct 22, 2020 7:43:28 GMT -5
Just finished the book today. I really enjoyed learning more about her life, especially early on. It is well written and a fun read. I also enjoyed the reference to lyrics through out the book which made me go back and listen to the specific songs quoted... that's probably why it took so long to finish it. Thank you Mariah.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Oct 22, 2020 8:02:27 GMT -5
My All embodied the natural sexiness of Mariah. That whole video, the sound, the instruments and most of all her voice. She didnt have to do anything in her Butterfly videos that was extra she just oozed sex appeal but not in a crass way but just feminine energy. I always thought her posing and doing her Mariahism was never intended for sexuality but just her playing but maybe cause of Jeter she really was in her sexual zone on Butterfly. Anyways My All is one of the best pop ballads of its times, hands down. I love The Birth of Venus theme of "My All."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2020 9:12:12 GMT -5
Tbh it seemed like Sony still pushed her songs hard in the late 90s, so I get confused at them stalling at Pop radio (I guess she was just past her peak at the time). Even despite the Tommy drama, I do think they really were giving her a lot of dedication and tools. "My All" had very huge promotion to go #1 and do okay. - Sent to Pop/AC - New remix sent to Rhythmic/Urban - Music video for the original version - Music video for the remix - Single was released on CD single, cassette single, 12" Vinyl, 7" Vinyl, and even VHS Single. By 1998 so many hits weren't being released as singles period, let alone on so many formats available in rather big quantities. - Single was also nicely discounted to maximize sales There's very few songs that come to mind that have received that level of treatment by a label. Multiple remixes, multiple music videos, different versions sent to multiple radio formats, and having a handful of configurations available for sale. "Heartbreaker" also had them essentially spend money/promote two different versions, as did "Thank God I Found You". She had four singles worth of promotion with those 2 songs alone, so I can kinda understand why they then backed away with "Crybaby"/"Against All Odds". Rainbow wasn't selling anywhere as much as her previous albums, and to be putting large budget in single after single eventually it has to run its course. An album also having 4+ songs released physically and fully pushed in the late 90s when most hits were beginning to be airplay-only was also unrealistic. Labels were beginning to think even lead singles being released physically would hinder and deplete parent album sales, so I can't even imagine how they felt about having fourth and fifth singles released physically. I thought they cut her budget at least for Rainbow I believe they did. I thought Mariah paid for the Heartbreaker video. I remember she self-funded everything after “Thank God I Found You” (she may have even self-funded part of the promotion for that track like the remix video... can’t remember). They gave her a very limited budget to work with for that album compared to what she received prior to it.
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Post by The Black Bird on Oct 22, 2020 12:25:17 GMT -5
Yeah, I remember she self-funded the trips she made to South America during Rainbow promo too.
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cking33
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Post by cking33 on Oct 22, 2020 14:11:04 GMT -5
For those curious, her quote-unquote weakest No. 1, "Thank God I Found You" did this in its run ... it climbed up for six weeks and then went 26-22-22-2-1-2-4-13-21. So a sharper decline on that one. That was where timing the release of the single to match its airplay peak REALLY helped in getting that song to No. 1.
Heartbreaker did this: 60-30-23-23-16-1-1-2-3-3-4-5-8-14 then on down. Nearly two months in the top 5.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Oct 22, 2020 14:25:15 GMT -5
For those curious, her quote-unquote weakest No. 1, "Thank God I Found You" did this in its run ... it climbed up for six weeks and then went 26-22-22-2-1-2-4-13-21. So a sharper decline on that one. That was where timing the release of the single to match its airplay peak REALLY helped in getting that song to No. 1. Heartbreaker did this: 60-30-23-23-16-1-1-2-3-3-4-5-8-14 then on down. Nearly two months in the top 5. It should be noted that both "Heartbreaker" and "TGIFY" were limited singles, which in part explains their relatively quick declines. ("TGIFY" only spent 5 weeks in the top 10 in sales.)
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Oct 22, 2020 16:19:58 GMT -5
As the NYT nonfiction positions were posted, here are positions for the Publishers Weekly and USA Today charts.
TOMOMC dips eight spots to No. 21 on the PW Hardcover Nonfiction list (25 positions), with 7,863 copies; cume stands at 62,557. PW charts do not include eBooks.
On USA Today's all-inclusive Best-Selling Books list, it's down 38 spots to No. 76. Looking at USA Today's 150-position-deep list, I saw just four books categorized as memoir. Aside from TMOMC: No. 19- Glennon Doyle's Untamed, 32nd week on the list; No. 116- Ruth Bader Ginsburg's My Own Words, fifth week on the list; and Michelle Obama's Becoming, 100th(!) week on the list.
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Oct 22, 2020 22:53:07 GMT -5
For those curious, her quote-unquote weakest No. 1, "Thank God I Found You" did this in its run ... it climbed up for six weeks and then went 26-22-22-2-1-2-4-13-21. So a sharper decline on that one. That was where timing the release of the single to match its airplay peak REALLY helped in getting that song to No. 1. Heartbreaker did this: 60-30-23-23-16-1-1-2-3-3-4-5-8-14 then on down. Nearly two months in the top 5. These Hot 100 runs are super interesting. Is there an accurate list available that ranks her #1 hits from weakest to strongest (using all the basic chart metrics)?
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🌺T.A.T.I🌺
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Post by 🌺T.A.T.I🌺 on Oct 23, 2020 9:23:53 GMT -5
Official lyric video of Save The Day. I still love this song.
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Tea-why
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Post by Tea-why on Oct 23, 2020 10:18:28 GMT -5
Fact! I remember articles deriding her airplay #s going down starting at Honey. But that actually doesn't mean her songs weren't successful at the formats they were sent to - they just weren't smashes at every single format simultaneously (like her AC/Pop hits were). The libel! Also - she was truly ahead of her time with the R&B shift - with the rising audiences after she literally started the trend, her songs probably would have had similar airplay peaks with just Rhythmic/Urban support as they did with Pop/AC/Hot AC support earlier in the 90s, if they were released once those formats really took off in the early 00s. Sure but this also ignores that Mariah's stats at Urban radio declined, too. I agree Pop/Top 40 isn't everything, but even when she owned pop radio she was killing it at Urban, too. Post "Honey" up until "We Belong Together" her only songs to go top 5 at Rhythmic were "Heartbreaker" and "IKWYW." Post "Honey" her only top 5s at Urban were the same two. Before that she had 11 #1s at Urban. Not that her songs were flopping at those formats, per se, but there was a definite decline from the pre-Butterfly days. I always wondered why that was. Did radio just lose faith in her at that time?
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Tea-why
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Post by Tea-why on Oct 23, 2020 10:27:02 GMT -5
She used to catch flack for those late 90s #1s not being huge radio hits (they were still radio hits) and getting to #1 because she could sell tons of singles.. fast forward to 2020 and there have been a bunch of Hot 100 #1s that went to #1 with huge first week streaming and then tumbled down the chart without recovering.. makes the criticism seem even sillier now because those songs were hits even if they weren’t big Pop hits. Exactly. And I always wondered why she did get flack because there were a lot of #1, #2 etc in the late 90’s that didn’t have amazing airplay and charted that way mostly because of huge sales. There were also a lot of singles from that time that were sale-priced per The hot 100 singles spotlights in old issues I see on google books, but that’s another thing I find she tends to get singled-out for.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2020 11:10:16 GMT -5
Sure but this also ignores that Mariah's stats at Urban radio declined, too. I agree Pop/Top 40 isn't everything, but even when she owned pop radio she was killing it at Urban, too. Post "Honey" up until "We Belong Together" her only songs to go top 5 at Rhythmic were "Heartbreaker" and "IKWYW." Post "Honey" her only top 5s at Urban were the same two. Before that she had 11 #1s at Urban. Not that her songs were flopping at those formats, per se, but there was a definite decline from the pre-Butterfly days. I always wondered why that was. Did radio just lose faith in her at that time? I think there were a few things going on. For the first five years of her career, Mariah was the #1 priority for the label. Then came the divorce from the head of the label and Mariah moving in a creative direction that Tommy didn't believe in and think was good for her career, and they shifted priorities for the label. Tommy was also calling radio station heads who he knew and telling them not to play her, but I think that was probably going on more during Glitter because actively sabotaging her when she was still his "product" and making him money doesn't make a whole lot of sense.. but who knows?.. just speculating. But Pop radio was also starting to move away from Whitney at the time too. By the late 90s, Pop radio was moving away from the big ballads that defined the 80s and early 90s and Mariah was definitely lumped in with that crowd.. and then also Pop radio hadn't really embraced R&B and Rap yet like they would by the early 2000s... a song like "Honey" didn't really fit into Pop radio playlists at the time. If you look at the Top 20 from the week "Honey" peaked at #10 there, it was mostly light rock and teen pop. The only R&B/hip-hop songs in the Top 20 other than "Honey" were "Men In Black" (from a huge film) and "I'll Be Missing You" which stalled in the teens despite being a massive Hot 100 #1. "Honey" actually took off very quickly at the format (it reached the Top 10 in 6 weeks), but it dropped like a rock from its peak. I think Pop radio just determined that given the type of music she was doing, she didn't really fit the format anymore. When they started warming up to R&B/hip-hop, Mariah was at a low point in her career reputation-wise and artistically, so they didn't re-embrace her until The Emancipation of Mimi. She used to catch flack for those late 90s #1s not being huge radio hits (they were still radio hits) and getting to #1 because she could sell tons of singles.. fast forward to 2020 and there have been a bunch of Hot 100 #1s that went to #1 with huge first week streaming and then tumbled down the chart without recovering.. makes the criticism seem even sillier now because those songs were hits even if they weren’t big Pop hits. Exactly. And I always wondered why she did get flack because there were a lot of #1, #2 etc in the late 90’s that didn’t have amazing airplay and charted that way mostly because of huge sales. There were also a lot of singles from that time that were sale-priced per The hot 100 singles spotlights in old issues I see on google books, but that’s another thing I find she tends to get singled-out for. I think it's because she did it so many times. There were quite a few Hot 100 #1s in the mid-to late-90s that weren't big Pop hits, but Mariah went to #1 with 3 songs that missed the Top 10 of the Hot 100 Airplay chart from 1997-2000 (and "Heartbreaker" went Top 10 Airplay once Urban radio was incorporated into that chart but missed the Top 20 at Pop radio). People felt like she was cheating the system. People also had a hard time accepting that a song could be a "hit" and be fairly well known without being all over Pop radio.. people still looked at formats like Urban as these "niche" formats that catered to a particular demographic and not the "general public". A few years later, white kids all throughout middle America were gobbling up rap and hip-hop culture.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2020 11:30:08 GMT -5
Official lyric video of Save The Day. I still love this song. I adore her for parenting up with push a black social advocacy, for using a black author for her memoirs and amplifying our voices.
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🌺T.A.T.I🌺
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Post by 🌺T.A.T.I🌺 on Oct 23, 2020 11:49:17 GMT -5
Did they ever send Save The Day to radio? The song deserves airplay.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2020 14:25:13 GMT -5
Did they ever send Save The Day to radio? The song deserves airplay. No. It got some Urban AC airplay the first couple weeks (not even enough to chart but several stations were playing it), but they never officially sent it for adds.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Oct 23, 2020 14:46:03 GMT -5
Ava, in March 2018, Billboard posted a top 40 of her biggest hits, based on weekly Hot 100 performance and with eras weighted to account for different chart turnover rates over various periods. "All I Want..." ranked No. 27 on the overall list, so it should have made a nice move with 2018 and 2019 activity added, even accounting for streaming-era hits having different weights
(Number in parentheses was the single's rank on the overall list; the first 11 had the same rank on the overall list)
1. "We Belong Together" 2. "One Sweet Day" 3. "Love Takes Time" 4. "Vision of Love" 5. "Fantasy" 6. "Emotions" 7. "Dreamlover" 8. "Someday" 9. "Hero" 10. "Always Be My Baby" 11. "I Don't Wanna Cry" 12. "My All" (14) 13. "Honey" (17) 14. "Don't Forget About Us" (18) 15. "I'll Be There" (19) 16. "Heartbreaker" (20) 17. "Touch My Body" (21) 18. "Thank God I Found You" (26)
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🌺T.A.T.I🌺
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Post by 🌺T.A.T.I🌺 on Oct 23, 2020 14:59:14 GMT -5
Did they ever send Save The Day to radio? The song deserves airplay. No. It got some Urban AC airplay the first couple weeks (not even enough to chart but several stations were playing it), but they never officially sent it for adds. That’s a shame. It’s such a good song.
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Post by neverduplicated on Oct 23, 2020 15:37:19 GMT -5
How is LTT her 3rd biggest Hot 100 hit? I know it was big but didn’t realize it was that big.
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Dreams
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Post by Dreams on Oct 23, 2020 17:33:47 GMT -5
LMFAO! Yas!!! We were discussing it on FOMM recently, "Love Takes Time," regardless of how under-the-radar it is for a lot of fans, is actually one of her biggest Hot 100 hits. I love that!
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Post by Positive Tension on Oct 23, 2020 18:28:36 GMT -5
I'm surprised "Vision of Love" and "Love Takes Time" are bigger hits than "Fantasy" and "Dreamlover," which spent 8 weeks at #1. I also recall that "VOL" and "LTT" spent less overall weeks on the chart, too.
"Always Be My Baby" is lower than I expected because it spent such a long time at #2 and a long time on the chart.
"I'll Be There" ranking so low surprises me too- didn't it spend 4 weeks at #1? "Don't Forget About Us" is listed right above it, but I remember that song having a fairly high rise and fast fall with 20 or so weeks on the chart.
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Oct 23, 2020 22:11:39 GMT -5
I may ruffle some feathers, but I definitely believe Caution is her 2018 Butterfly.
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Oct 23, 2020 22:16:54 GMT -5
"I'll Be There" ranking so low surprises me too- didn't it spend 4 weeks at #1? I know "I'll Be There" spent 8 weeks at #1 on the Hot 100 Airplay chart and 6 weeks at #1 on the Mainstream Top 40 Airplay charts. It was a HUGE hit. Its ranking surprises me too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2020 22:28:50 GMT -5
It makes sense that Love Takes Time would be big hit for her. It came on the heels of her explosion into the scene with Vision of Love and release of her debut album. That could have been IDWC or Someday had they come second.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Oct 23, 2020 22:29:31 GMT -5
I'm surprised "Vision of Love" and "Love Takes Time" are bigger hits than "Fantasy" and "Dreamlover," which spent 8 weeks at #1. I also recall that "VOL" and "LTT" spent less overall weeks on the chart, too. "Always Be My Baby" is lower than I expected because it spent such a long time at #2 and a long time on the chart. "I'll Be There" ranking so low surprises me too- didn't it spend 4 weeks at #1? "Don't Forget About Us" is listed right above it, but I remember that song having a fairly high rise and fast fall with 20 or so weeks on the chart. Vision of Love/Love Takes Time were pre-Soundscan, and their chart runs are weighed very differently. Also the chart ofcourse wasn't completely *as* accurate as it was post-Soundscan. "I'll Be There" burned out very quick despite spending multiple weeks #1. The fact it was for MTV Unplugged and not an actual era probably had a lot to do with that.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Oct 23, 2020 22:33:19 GMT -5
Listening to "Never too Far" now feels different since knowing that single release was what basically pushed her into the 'breakdown'. (The music video filming) But I'm also intrigued at the fact there was literally a music video set up for it. Who was gonna direct it? What was the storyline gonna be? :O
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