colson
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Post by colson on Oct 23, 2020 22:44:33 GMT -5
I'm surprised "Vision of Love" and "Love Takes Time" are bigger hits than "Fantasy" and "Dreamlover," which spent 8 weeks at #1. I also recall that "VOL" and "LTT" spent less overall weeks on the chart, too. "Always Be My Baby" is lower than I expected because it spent such a long time at #2 and a long time on the chart. "I'll Be There" ranking so low surprises me too- didn't it spend 4 weeks at #1? "Don't Forget About Us" is listed right above it, but I remember that song having a fairly high rise and fast fall with 20 or so weeks on the chart. Vision of Love/Love Takes Time were pre-Soundscan, and their chart runs are weighed very differently. Also the chart ofcourse wasn't completely *as* accurate as it was post-Soundscan. "I'll Be There" burned out very quick despite spending multiple weeks #1. The fact it was for MTV Unplugged and not an actual era probably had a lot to do with that. I thought that I'll Be There was a limited commercial single because they were trying to move Unplugged album units? That Unplugged album sold more than decently well off the backs off the Emotions album at that time.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Oct 23, 2020 23:11:35 GMT -5
Vision of Love/Love Takes Time were pre-Soundscan, and their chart runs are weighed very differently. Also the chart ofcourse wasn't completely *as* accurate as it was post-Soundscan. "I'll Be There" burned out very quick despite spending multiple weeks #1. The fact it was for MTV Unplugged and not an actual era probably had a lot to do with that. I thought that I'll Be There was a limited commercial single because they were trying to move Unplugged album units? That Unplugged album sold more than decently well off the backs off the Emotions album at that time. Even on radio it burnt out pretty quickly. Here is the run on Radio Songs: 4-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-4-8-15-19-26-29-40-41-43 (First off let's note how it literally DEBUTED top 5 on radio. Insane.) It spent 8 weeks #1, however only 12 weeks top 10, and 17 weeks top 40. Compare it to the other #1's such as Dreamlover/Hero/Fantasy afterwards. Dreamlover: 21-2-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-3-4-7-10-11-13-13-12-10-16-18-23-28-33 (19 weeks top 10, 28 weeks top 40) Hero: 28-17-8-6-3-3-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-5-5-9-10-13-16-20-25-25-32-32-31 (19 weeks top 10, 29 weeks top 40) Fantasy: 8-6-3-2-2-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-2-3-3-5-3-6-8-9-12-16-18-26-30-28 (22 weeks top 10, 28 weeks top 40) I guess perhaps they weren't trying to go overboard with a side project single, so it didn't have as much sales/radio support for longterm success. Also I do remember hearing that I'll Be There did WAY better than they were expecting it and it just exploded overnight, so maybe it kinda sorta went viral for that time/era and thus died out quicker than her average smash hit that grows more overtime and declines slower.
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🇯🇲 lucy88 🇯🇲
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Post by 🇯🇲 lucy88 🇯🇲 on Oct 24, 2020 0:58:23 GMT -5
I'm surprised "Vision of Love" and "Love Takes Time" are bigger hits than "Fantasy" and "Dreamlover," which spent 8 weeks at #1. I also recall that "VOL" and "LTT" spent less overall weeks on the chart, too. "Always Be My Baby" is lower than I expected because it spent such a long time at #2 and a long time on the chart. "I'll Be There" ranking so low surprises me too- didn't it spend 4 weeks at #1? "Don't Forget About Us" is listed right above it, but I remember that song having a fairly high rise and fast fall with 20 or so weeks on the chart. That is interesting. "Vision of Love", "Love Takes Time", "I Don't Wanna Cry", and "Can't Let Go" were the only Mariah songs I can fondly remember my dad playing alot in my childhood.
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colson
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Post by colson on Oct 24, 2020 1:46:48 GMT -5
I still think IBT as a stand alone single from her Unplugged that the album took away from some of the "single" sales. Besides, it was a win win situation for her and the label. The song went to #1 and the Unplugged album was successful.
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kierz7
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Post by kierz7 on Oct 24, 2020 8:08:13 GMT -5
The fact that some members of ‘LAMB Twitter’ genuinely believe that “Music Box” is more influential and impactful than “Daydream”.
I truly, sincerely and faithfully have to laugh!
💀☠️💀
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Oct 24, 2020 8:21:51 GMT -5
Yep, Sony stopped shipping "I'll Be There" to outlets after a certain number of weeks, hence why it didn't endure like some of the other singles.
Thee was some discussion about some of the '90s singles performance at R&B radio. These were the R&B Airplay peaks for 1992-1998 singles/hits, that reached their peak before Billboard added R&B radio to the Hot 100 Airplay panel, with number of weeks charted listed:
Make It Happen: No. 3/21 weeks I'll Be There: No. 7/20 weeks Dreamlover: No. 1/27 weeks Hero: No. 10/21 weeks Never Forget You: No. 26/19 weeks Anytime You Need a Friend: No. 30/15 weeks Endless Love: No. 6/10 weeks Fantasy: No. 1/28 weeks One Sweet Day: No. 2/29 weeks Always Be My Baby: No. 3/28 weeks Underneath the Stars: No. 69/4 weeks Honey: No. 4/23 weeks Butterfly: No. 27/17 weeks Breakdown: No. 13/30 weeks My All: No. 16/15 weeks Sweetheart: No. 45/13 weeks
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Oct 24, 2020 8:22:37 GMT -5
I think it's because she did it so many times. There were quite a few Hot 100 #1s in the mid-to late-90s that weren't big Pop hits, but Mariah went to #1 with 3 songs that missed the Top 10 of the Hot 100 Airplay chart from 1997-2000 (and "Heartbreaker" went Top 10 Airplay once Urban radio was incorporated into that chart but missed the Top 20 at Pop radio). People felt like she was cheating the system. People also had a hard time accepting that a song could be a "hit" and be fairly well known without being all over Pop radio.. people still looked at formats like Urban as these "niche" formats that catered to a particular demographic and not the "general public". A few years later, white kids all throughout middle America were gobbling up rap and hip-hop culture. It's funny because, as someone else pointed out, we are back to this kind of a trend. Songs go to #1 on the Hot 100 now due to streaming but may not be a 'Pop' hit at all. It's so annoying when people want to prop up (or downplay) a certain measure just because of the type of music it helps.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Oct 24, 2020 8:28:02 GMT -5
How is LTT her 3rd biggest Hot 100 hit? I know it was big but didn’t realize it was that big. "LTT" had a lot of weeks in the top 10 and top 20 for its time. Positive Tension "Dreamlover" and "Fantasy" charted at a time when more weeks at #1 were more common, so that's part of it. Keep in mind "Vision of Love" with 4 weeks at #1 was actually the longest running #1 of 1990. Only 1 song in 1989 had 4 weeks at #1, and only 1 song in 1988 had 4 weeks at #1. Once Soundscan/BDS hit in 1991, songs started having longer runs at #1 and on the Hot 100 in general. (As for "IBT," it was #1 for 2 weeks. Sony deleted the commercial single to boost album sales, and the song fell quickly. It topped the Airplay chart for 8 weeks, though.) It should also be noted that because of the chart rule at the time preventing airplay-only songs from charting on the Hot 100, many Mariah songs in the mid-90s missed a chart run up the chart. They debuted at #1 or #2 and could essentially just fall from there. Those songs had been charting in airplay for weeks before debuting and would thus have had longer chart runs under current rules.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Oct 24, 2020 9:31:12 GMT -5
As the NYT nonfiction positions were posted, here are positions for the Publishers Weekly and USA Today charts. TOMOMC dips eight spots to No. 21 on the PW Hardcover Nonfiction list (25 positions), with 7,863 copies; cume stands at 62,557. PW charts do not include eBooks. On USA Today's all-inclusive Best-Selling Books list, it's down 38 spots to No. 76. Looking at USA Today's 150-position-deep list, I saw just four books categorized as memoir. Aside from TMOMC: No. 19- Glennon Doyle's Untamed, 32nd week on the list; No. 116- Ruth Bader Ginsburg's My Own Words, fifth week on the list; and Michelle Obama's Becoming, 100th(!) week on the list. I assume in addition to not including eBooks, those figures don't include the Audible either. Anyone know what the recent memoirs of Elton John, Alicia Keys, etc sold? Mariah's 60k sold (and counting) seems solid, but I don't actually know.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2020 10:13:33 GMT -5
The Fact that Mariah released Save The Day, Triumphant, etc as singles for the world to hear but never released Caution or The Distance tells me that she may be loosing her touch, or out of touch.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Oct 24, 2020 10:25:35 GMT -5
The Fact that Mariah released Save The Day, Triumphant, etc as singles for the world to hear but never released Caution or The Distance tells me that she may be loosing her touch, or out of touch. Historically Mariah hasn't always been the best at choosing singles. Keep in mind she also fought for "CTTA."
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irvine22
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Post by irvine22 on Oct 24, 2020 10:44:20 GMT -5
I have more love for this woman than any other act (Whitney will always be right there too) but my word if there isnt a night and day difference when she has great management.
Even the TRL cart- I totally get it and admire her so much for taking things into her own hands and trying but that was a perfect example. She just needs that support and guidance for THAT. Even on her bad days she has talent for eons so in that regard she’d be a dream to manage.
With all that being said- if I had to choose, I’ll take free Mimi with faults along the way than “the franchise”
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2020 10:58:08 GMT -5
She seemed fairly free and having fun during TEOM and E=MC2 while being heavily managed by Benny Medina at Handprint. I think with great structure she will have the most fun. I mean, she was free during virgin days but I wouldn’t consider that a great point of her life or career.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2020 11:26:06 GMT -5
Marlon Wayans being extra yesterday on WWHL and making fun of Glitter but cute to see Olivia John Newton sorta support by saying she loves Mariah but hasn't seen it.
Its almost 20 years y'all still talking about it so it did something 🤷🏾♀️
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Tea-why
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Post by Tea-why on Oct 24, 2020 11:42:00 GMT -5
I always wondered why that was. Did radio just lose faith in her at that time? I think there were a few things going on. For the first five years of her career, Mariah was the #1 priority for the label. Then came the divorce from the head of the label and Mariah moving in a creative direction that Tommy didn't believe in and think was good for her career, and they shifted priorities for the label. Tommy was also calling radio station heads who he knew and telling them not to play her, but I think that was probably going on more during Glitter because actively sabotaging her when she was still his "product" and making him money doesn't make a whole lot of sense.. but who knows?.. just speculating. But Pop radio was also starting to move away from Whitney at the time too. By the late 90s, Pop radio was moving away from the big ballads that defined the 80s and early 90s and Mariah was definitely lumped in with that crowd.. and then also Pop radio hadn't really embraced R&B and Rap yet like they would by the early 2000s... a song like "Honey" didn't really fit into Pop radio playlists at the time. If you look at the Top 20 from the week "Honey" peaked at #10 there, it was mostly light rock and teen pop. The only R&B/hip-hop songs in the Top 20 other than "Honey" were "Men In Black" (from a huge film) and "I'll Be Missing You" which stalled in the teens despite being a massive Hot 100 #1. "Honey" actually took off very quickly at the format (it reached the Top 10 in 6 weeks), but it dropped like a rock from its peak. I think Pop radio just determined that given the type of music she was doing, she didn't really fit the format anymore. When they started warming up to R&B/hip-hop, Mariah was at a low point in her career reputation-wise and artistically, so they didn't re-embrace her until The Emancipation of Mimi. Exactly. And I always wondered why she did get flack because there were a lot of #1, #2 etc in the late 90’s that didn’t have amazing airplay and charted that way mostly because of huge sales. There were also a lot of singles from that time that were sale-priced per The hot 100 singles spotlights in old issues I see on google books, but that’s another thing I find she tends to get singled-out for. I think it's because she did it so many times. There were quite a few Hot 100 #1s in the mid-to late-90s that weren't big Pop hits, but Mariah went to #1 with 3 songs that missed the Top 10 of the Hot 100 Airplay chart from 1997-2000 (and "Heartbreaker" went Top 10 Airplay once Urban radio was incorporated into that chart but missed the Top 20 at Pop radio). People felt like she was cheating the system. People also had a hard time accepting that a song could be a "hit" and be fairly well known without being all over Pop radio.. people still looked at formats like Urban as these "niche" formats that catered to a particular demographic and not the "general public". A few years later, white kids all throughout middle America were gobbling up rap and hip-hop culture. Good points! I never thought of those. I find it very interesting to follow charts because of all of these different changing trends. Interesting how urban has gotten so big when people at one time thought it was “niche”. I wish I was following the charts in the 90’s. I only started following them in the early 2000’s and when I got her #1’s CD in ‘98 I didn’t even know what billboard or the hot 100 were lol
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Oct 24, 2020 11:48:42 GMT -5
US iTunes: #576 - "All I Want for Christmas Is You" #791 - Greatest Hits #869 - The Rarities #1178 - Merry Christmas
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Oct 24, 2020 11:51:22 GMT -5
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colson
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Post by colson on Oct 24, 2020 12:17:25 GMT -5
Marlon Wayans being extra yesterday on WWHL and making fun of Glitter but cute to see Olivia John Newton sorta support by saying she loves Mariah but hasn't seen it. Its almost 20 years y'all still talking about it so it did something 🤷🏾♀️ Why were they even talking about Mariah in the first place?
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irvine22
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Post by irvine22 on Oct 24, 2020 15:40:22 GMT -5
Marlon Wayans being extra yesterday on WWHL and making fun of Glitter but cute to see Olivia John Newton sorta support by saying she loves Mariah but hasn't seen it. Its almost 20 years y'all still talking about it so it did something 🤷🏾♀️ Why were they even talking about Mariah in the first place? Andy being messy. I’m a little annoyed she chose his company to publish
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2020 18:15:08 GMT -5
Marlon Wayans being extra yesterday on WWHL and making fun of Glitter but cute to see Olivia John Newton sorta support by saying she loves Mariah but hasn't seen it. Its almost 20 years y'all still talking about it so it did something 🤷🏾♀️ Why were they even talking about Mariah in the first place? Andy being messy brought it up but Marlon was doing too much.
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Dreams
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Post by Dreams on Oct 24, 2020 18:25:06 GMT -5
The Fact that Mariah released Save The Day, Triumphant, etc as singles for the world to hear but never released Caution or The Distance tells me that she may be loosing her touch, or out of touch. LMFAO!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2020 19:23:41 GMT -5
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Post by die Lotterie on Oct 24, 2020 20:02:13 GMT -5
I went through some serious s**t in my personal life when Triumphant came out, and it has been an anthem for me ever since, probably more so than the usual uplifting tracks that are referenced. I'm obviously biased because of this, but besides not sounding like the hit everyone was wanting at the time, I don't get the hate thrown at it. I think it's a bop. The sultry adlibs on top of the rap verses (which are everything) coupled with the commanding, direct vocal delivery is a moment. I live for everything about this song, I frequent it often, ask Albie.
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Caviar
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Post by Caviar on Oct 24, 2020 20:03:08 GMT -5
“Triumphant” is easily one of her best songs last decade.
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Albie
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Post by Albie on Oct 24, 2020 20:19:10 GMT -5
I went through some serious s**t in my personal life when Triumphant came out, and it has been an anthem for me ever since, probably more so than the usual uplifting tracks that are referenced. I'm obviously biased because of this, but besides not sounding like the hit everyone was wanting at the time, I don't get the hate thrown at it. I think it's a bop. The sultry adlibs on top of the rap verses (which are everything) coupled with the commanding, direct vocal delivery is a moment. I live for everything about this song, I frequent it often, ask Albie . You haven't heard Triumphant until you've heard it blaring on your car stereo, down the 101 highway on a sunny SoCal day with James.
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irvine22
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Post by irvine22 on Oct 24, 2020 20:26:59 GMT -5
We are talking about the Pulse remix and the remix version only, right? LOL The remix I love- the moun ten top is not too fahhh delivery is my fave
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2020 21:24:59 GMT -5
IDK it was too much rap, too much Jermaine Dupri and the lyrics were too cliche. It borders cheese. She needed to come back with something unequivocally strong and unexpected and all what we got was unexpected but not in a good way. I remember early reviews saying it was the next Fantasy Remix. Ya Right!
It set her back a year and “MC Summer 2012” ended up being “late May” 2014 by the time a whole album came out. 2013 was a disaster too (except for #Beautiful).
Had #B came out in the summer of 2012, it would’ve been a totally different story. She could’ve even used mesmerized and built a great album around them with a killer throwback vibe.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Oct 24, 2020 22:20:56 GMT -5
I have SUCH a soft spot for Mariah’s 1988-90 recorded uptempos. Here We Go Around Again, All in Your Mind, Someday, Prisoner, You Need Me, and to an extent There’s Got to Be a Way. So cheesy and fun, and they REALLY do have a very distinct sound/style to them that was never heard again in any of her albums afterwards.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Oct 25, 2020 5:45:19 GMT -5
Why were they even talking about Mariah in the first place? Andy being messy. I’m a little annoyed she chose his company to publish To give an actual answer colson Andy had an agree/disagree game with Olivia and Marlon. One of the rounds was something to the effect of "Glitter is better than its reputation, agree or disagree." Olivia said agree and said she hasn't seen it but loves Mariah. Marlon said disagree but also added "hell naw."
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enoughsaid
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Post by enoughsaid on Oct 25, 2020 7:45:57 GMT -5
I may ruffle some feathers, but I definitely believe Caution is her 2018 Butterfly. Caution is fantastic, just a great body of work and I love that it's a short album. With You and Portrait are the only songs I don't love but I like them both just fine
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