Mariah Carey: "IT'S TIME" 👑

[Ernesto]

I love this video!

http://instagram.com/p/CJEso-BAlYG

[back2blk]

Billboard has become extremely team Mariah in recent years; it will be foolish for them to change the Holiday Chart rules, if only because AIWFCIY provides them headlines each and every year and stats to share - which is, you know, what they're in business for.

[Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...]

Dec 21, 2020 15:37:01 GMT -5 Ernesto said:

I love this video!

http://instagr.am/p/CJEso-BAlYG

Her hair! Her skin! 😳😍 she looks so gorgeous!!

Love the video! Congrats MC! 🎉

[colson]

What has this song sold overall worldwide in digital sales and in physical sales?

[neverduplicated]

Even without a change in chart rules, "Willow" has shown us that AIWFCIY getting multiple weeks at #1 every year is not guaranteed. I would love for the song to break the all-time record, but that's a long ways away. If a big artist releases a huge single in December next year, it can easily block AIWFCIY for multiple weeks. It will be very hard to block on the last full week leading up to Christmas, but even that could be possible if the single is big enough and/or the tracking week doesn't work out in Mariah's favor.

[die Lotterie]

Yes, of course it's not guaranteed, who would ever think that? Let's not minimize how massive AIWFCIY is, though. A big current artist just did release in December and even with the remixes and tricks it was still only knocked out of the top spot by an extremely narrow margin, not "easily". Not to mention AIWFCIY seems to only get bigger each year. This song is a beast.

[neverduplicated]

Dec 21, 2020 16:56:27 GMT -5 die Lotterie said:

Yes, of course it's not guaranteed, who would ever think that? Let's not minimize how massive AIWFCIY is, though. A big current artist just did release in December and even with the remixes and tricks it was still only knocked out of the top spot by an extremely narrow margin, not "easily". Not to mention AIWFCIY seems to only get bigger each year. This song is a beast.

I'm not minimizing anything. I just see a lot of people talking like the all-time record is inevitable or only 5 years away, when in reality we just don't know what will happen. I just don't want lambs to get their hopes up too high and instead appreciate what the song has accomplished and will continue too. Also please don't twist my words, I never said Willow easily beat AIWFCIY. My point was really that if a song like Willow which wasn't even that big can beat AIWFCIY, other songs by even hotter singles artists could easily do it.

[theedge12]

Dec 21, 2020 17:24:36 GMT -5 neverduplicated said:

Dec 21, 2020 16:56:27 GMT -5 die Lotterie said:

Yes, of course it's not guaranteed, who would ever think that? Let's not minimize how massive AIWFCIY is, though. A big current artist just did release in December and even with the remixes and tricks it was still only knocked out of the top spot by an extremely narrow margin, not "easily". Not to mention AIWFCIY seems to only get bigger each year. This song is a beast.

I'm not minimizing anything. I just see a lot of people talking like the all-time record is inevitable or only 5 years away, when in reality we just don't know what will happen. I just don't want lambs to get their hopes up too high and instead appreciate what the song has accomplished and will continue too. Also please don't twist my words, I never said Willow easily beat AIWFCIY. My point was really that if a song like Willow which wasn't even that big can beat AIWFCIY, other songs by even hotter singles artists could easily do it.

If Mariah really cared she could have discounted! She already got are #1 the rest is icing on the cake.

[#LisaRinna]

US iTunes:
#2 - "All I Want for Christmas Is You"
#22 - Merry Christmas
#48 - Mariah Carey's Magical Christmas Special
#69 - "Oh Santa!" f/ Ariana Grande & Jennifer Hudson
#73 - Merry Christmas II You
#156 - "Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)"
#264 - "Oh Santa!"
#279 - "O Holy Night"
#358 - "All I Want for Christmas Is You (Magical Christmas Mix)"
#421 - "Santa Claus Is Comin' to Town"
#674 - "Sleigh Ride"
#1017 - "All I Want for Christmas Is You (Extra Festive)"
#1057 - "Joy to the World"
#1148 - Merry Christmas Deluxe
#1152 - "Auld Lang Syne"

Spotify US:
2. Mariah Carey - All I Want for Christmas Is You - 1,394,330 plays (-143,613)
89. Mariah Carey - Christmas (Baby Please Come Home) - 358,068 plays (-31,354)

Global Spotify:
1. Mariah Carey - All I Want for Christmas Is You - 5,803,653 plays (-447,984)

[sundaymorningguy]

Mariah would probably never discount it as this brings her major coin every year.

[#LisaRinna]

Dec 21, 2020 15:27:12 GMT -5 Leigh said:

The way 'Out Here On My Own' has finally clicked and hit home after all these months

My new favorite shower song.

[The Northern Star⭐]

Favorite version of the song outside of the original:

[Leigh]

That dance remix did nothing for me sadly. But now this is my most favourite (non-official) version that I play a lot every year:

[cking33]

Dec 21, 2020 17:24:36 GMT -5 neverduplicated said:

Dec 21, 2020 16:56:27 GMT -5 die Lotterie said:

Yes, of course it's not guaranteed, who would ever think that? Let's not minimize how massive AIWFCIY is, though. A big current artist just did release in December and even with the remixes and tricks it was still only knocked out of the top spot by an extremely narrow margin, not "easily". Not to mention AIWFCIY seems to only get bigger each year. This song is a beast.

I'm not minimizing anything. I just see a lot of people talking like the all-time record is inevitable or only 5 years away, when in reality we just don't know what will happen. I just don't want lambs to get their hopes up too high and instead appreciate what the song has accomplished and will continue too. Also please don't twist my words, I never said Willow easily beat AIWFCIY. My point was really that if a song like Willow which wasn't even that big can beat AIWFCIY, other songs by even hotter singles artists could easily do it.

Totally agree that we shouldn’t take any week at No. 1 for granted. Other thing to consider if we’ve seen more subtle changes in how Billboard evaluates chart points, like the changes in how it evaluates YouTube views. If this upcoming week is the fifth and final week AIWFCIY spends at No. 1 that’ll still be an awesome achievement. I was just joking that we’ll see Lil Nas X in 6 years, wasn’t serious. Lord knows what future years will hold. Cherish what we have now!

[Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...]

Dec 21, 2020 19:39:49 GMT -5 cking33 said:

I was just joking that we’ll see Lil Nas X in 6 years, wasn’t serious.

Oh we gonna get that record back.

[imbuemyblue]

Dec 21, 2020 15:40:21 GMT -5 back2blk said:

Billboard has become extremely team Mariah in recent years; it will be foolish for them to change the Holiday Chart rules, if only because AIWFCIY provides them headlines each and every year and stats to share - which is, you know, what they're in business for.

Very this. I know there is a lot of concern about rule changes, but honestly Billboard would be *thrilled* if Mariah broke the record again. That would be the biggest story of their year. December is always a dead zone, so I don’t think there’s any love lost from the Christmas takeover, despite the protests from some Pulse members. IMO, Christmas music makes things *more* interesting and should stay.

[Eqbk]

One thing to also note is that other artists have benefited from the current rules regarding Christmas songs as well, not just Mariah. Brenda Lee is an obvious one. There's also Jose Feliciano, who just scored his second top ten with Feliz Navidad, 52 years apart from his first one. Then there's Wham!, who is close to and hopefully will, get a top ten with Last Christmas. Outside of Mariah's dominance, there are plenty of interesting chart achievements (that create some interesting discussion) that arise from Christmas songs being able to chart with the current rules.

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Don't understand the lambs dragging Taylor for discounting/remixing to secure a high peak when Mariah has done so many times throughout her career. lol It's fair game.

[adamalterlago]

Dec 22, 2020 2:43:22 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Don't understand the lambs dragging Taylor for discounting/remixing to secure a high peak when Mariah has done so many times throughout her career. lol It's fair game.

Nah honey. Listen, I’m a Taylor fan but as an OG Lamb, I can tell you that Mariah works a bit differently. Im not mad at Taylor, this is a business and she is a boss businesswoman. Mariah is pretty much undisputedly the queen of the remix. When she introduced the concept of the remix to the mainstream in the 90s, they were completely new songs, new vocals, etc. She didn’t create her remixes for chart glory...she already had the charts.
Someone please correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think a remix counted toward the official single on Billboard back in the day. You could argue Loverboy was pushed in the same way Willow was since Virgin discounted it.
Also I don’t see a lot of hate for Taylor taking #1 on this board. Folklore and Evermore are really amazing bodies of work so I’m glad for her. At the end of the day, Willow is gonna tumble next week the same way AIWFCIY will tumble after Xmas.

[die Lotterie]

Where is Taylor getting dragged? I missed this apparently.

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Wasn't exclusively talking about the lambs here on Pulse (though yes, I absolutely have seen a few shading/criticizing here, even Jazzy took note of it a few pages ago).

[die Lotterie]

[Deleted]

Dec 22, 2020 2:43:22 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Don't understand the lambs dragging Taylor for discounting/remixing to secure a high peak when Mariah has done so many times throughout her career. lol It's fair game.

Maybe I'm just doing a good job of avoiding the right parts of the internet (I was busy taking my final form and bending fire lol), but I have not seen anywhere where a notable number of lambs have dragged Taylor - or maybe I should say, I have not seen anywhere where it should be notable that the people dragging Taylor were lambs. I've seen a lot of people in general drag her for all the versions, but Taylor Nation should be used to that by now. If anything it's the Beliebers and Arianators whom I have seen coming for her wig more.

Now with that said, what Taylor did for willow is not like anything Mariah ever did for her singles. Taylor just released three separate remixes within the span of one week, and added physical sales for said versions + discounts as the week progressed. This 'wave' style of promotion could not ever have been possible during the '90s; singles were pressed and sent to stores at once and subsequent pressings only happened if there was still demand. Maybe not even then - half the time Columbia released limited Mariah's pressings and deleted the singles after a few weeks to divert attention and sales to the parent albums. Certain vinyls and maxi-singles were/are considered rare and expensive finds in the Mariah world because of this. Any urban or rhythmic airplay she got was null for Hot 100 purposes because those formats weren't included in the Hot 100 formula until December 1998, when airplay-only songs were finally allowed to chart. And there wasn't a dance airplay component chart until 2003...basically, any format where Mariah's remixes may have dominated did next to nothing to add to her Hot 100 success. Pretty much only the Rainbow era singles had the opportunity to benefit from their remixes in any way, and by that time we were accustomed to Mariah filming extra videos and servicing different versions to urban so it wasn't like it was a new thing she was doing for chart purposes.

This brings me to the most important distinction between what Mariah did in the 90s and what Taylor did now with willow. Mariah's chart 'games' never had anything to do with alternate versions or pricing; they revolved around repression - holding back the physical single release until airplay was close to peaking so that she could maximize her chart points. For charting purposes, it didn't really matter whether Mariah even bothered putting a remix on those physical copies because the demand for the main version was already there. Columbia did this regularly, and to the extent that one does think Mariah's remixes were a factor they were also a constant, so it wasn't going to raise eyebrows in 1999 that she was still doing stuff that she'd been doing since 1992. But until willow (and ME!) Taylor had never played this hard at the Hot 100 game, so it feels odd to see her do it and to some people all that effort undermines the continued relevance she's seemingly trying to prove. From that perspective, the only Mariah single that I think could be somewhat comparable is Loverboy, although that situation had a more complex backstory. At the time, few people knew (or cared) about anything that could have put Mariah in a more sympathetic light. She was the A-lister that many loved to hate simply because of her A-list status (feel familiar?), so she caught a lot of judgment for trying so hard to promote and using tactics we weren't used to seeing from her - to my recollection Loverboy was actually the only single she discounted immediately, which is why people still bring it up as a 'low' moment for her. But I think Loverboy would be more analogous with ME! than willow when taking into account overall context.

I personally don't have any problem with what Taylor did. I think it is just that the point of diminishing returns is inevitable and unavoidable. All pop stars will get there whether they want to or not...so when you start nearing that point, you have to play the game harder to maintain your position and eventually it does start to look desperate and egoistic to still be hungry for the chart success you were used to having rather than be willing to age gracefully* into your legacy status and take any chart toppers or records from that point out as just a nice bonus. That's where Taylor is in her career right now and that IMO is why she is getting flak over it, not entirely fair to her (or any pop star) but it is what it is.


*of course no one is ever happy with what these top-tier women choose to do because people remain pressed that Beyonce projects continue to get attention despite refusing to promote any of it.

/tl;dr

oh hell that was a book lol

[jenglisbe]

Dec 21, 2020 17:38:32 GMT -5 theedge12 said:

Dec 21, 2020 17:24:36 GMT -5 neverduplicated said:

I'm not minimizing anything. I just see a lot of people talking like the all-time record is inevitable or only 5 years away, when in reality we just don't know what will happen. I just don't want lambs to get their hopes up too high and instead appreciate what the song has accomplished and will continue too. Also please don't twist my words, I never said Willow easily beat AIWFCIY. My point was really that if a song like Willow which wasn't even that big can beat AIWFCIY, other songs by even hotter singles artists could easily do it.

If Mariah really cared she could have discounted! She already got are #1 the rest is icing on the cake.

Yeah as close as the race was, a discounted "AIWFCIY" would have likely made it #1. Having said that, "AIWFCIY" discounted might have meant Swift and her team selling "willow" with pumpkin spice lattes at Starbucks so who knows?

[jenglisbe]

Dec 22, 2020 2:43:22 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Don't understand the lambs dragging Taylor for discounting/remixing to secure a high peak when Mariah has done so many times throughout her career. lol It's fair game.

I don't understand you pointing this out tbh. Do you know that the same people criticizing Taylor praised Mariah for it? Unless you do, this is an irrelevant post.

And let's be clear, 17 of Mariah's 19 #1s were all #1 for multiple weeks. She's also never had a #1 fall out of the top 10, which "willow" will do. Comparing Mariah's #1s to Swift's is a losing battle for Swift, so not sure why anyone would start it lol.

Dec 22, 2020 5:04:12 GMT -5 @antigonerising said:

Now with that said, what Taylor did for willow is not like anything Mariah ever did for her singles. Taylor just released three separate remixes within the span of one week, and added physical sales for said versions + discounts as the week progressed.

Great post, but let me clarify it was more than 3 remixes. Or more so, there was an instrumental and other stuff, too. I think in total there were 7 versions. And yes, Mariah's remixes all came on 1 maxi-single which counted as 1 sale of the song.

[colson]

That other song will soon be a distant memory and AIWFCIY will be back on the charts in late 2021. It sort of reminds me of my "minor" annoyance of IYH temporarily interrupting WBT's streak. Oh well, these things happen.

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Dec 22, 2020 5:04:12 GMT -5 @antigonerising said:

Dec 22, 2020 2:43:22 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Don't understand the lambs dragging Taylor for discounting/remixing to secure a high peak when Mariah has done so many times throughout her career. lol It's fair game.

Maybe I'm just doing a good job of avoiding the right parts of the internet (I was busy taking my final form and bending fire lol), but I have not seen anywhere where a notable number of lambs have dragged Taylor - or maybe I should say, I have not seen anywhere where it should be notable that the people dragging Taylor were lambs. I've seen a lot of people in general drag her for all the versions, but Taylor Nation should be used to that by now. If anything it's the Beliebers and Arianators whom I have seen coming for her wig more.

Now with that said, what Taylor did for willow is not like anything Mariah ever did for her singles. Taylor just released three separate remixes within the span of one week, and added physical sales for said versions + discounts as the week progressed. This 'wave' style of promotion could not ever have been possible during the '90s; singles were pressed and sent to stores at once and subsequent pressings only happened if there was still demand. Maybe not even then - half the time Columbia released limited Mariah's pressings and deleted the singles after a few weeks to divert attention and sales to the parent albums. Certain vinyls and maxi-singles were/are considered rare and expensive finds in the Mariah world because of this. Any urban or rhythmic airplay she got was null for Hot 100 purposes because those formats weren't included in the Hot 100 formula until December 1998, when airplay-only songs were finally allowed to chart. And there wasn't a dance airplay component chart until 2003...basically, any format where Mariah's remixes may have dominated did next to nothing to add to her Hot 100 success. Pretty much only the Rainbow era singles had the opportunity to benefit from their remixes in any way, and by that time we were accustomed to Mariah filming extra videos and servicing different versions to urban so it wasn't like it was a new thing she was doing for chart purposes.

This brings me to the most important distinction between what Mariah did in the 90s and what Taylor did now with willow. Mariah's chart 'games' never had anything to do with alternate versions or pricing; they revolved around repression - holding back the physical single release until airplay was close to peaking so that she could maximize her chart points. For charting purposes, it didn't really matter whether Mariah even bothered putting a remix on those physical copies because the demand for the main version was already there. Columbia did this regularly, and to the extent that one does think Mariah's remixes were a factor they were also a constant, so it wasn't going to raise eyebrows in 1999 that she was still doing stuff that she'd been doing since 1992. But until willow (and ME!) Taylor had never played this hard at the Hot 100 game, so it feels odd to see her do it and to some people all that effort undermines the continued relevance she's seemingly trying to prove. From that perspective, the only Mariah single that I think could be somewhat comparable is Loverboy, although that situation had a more complex backstory. At the time, few people knew (or cared) about anything that could have put Mariah in a more sympathetic light. She was the A-lister that many loved to hate simply because of her A-list status (feel familiar?), so she caught a lot of judgment for trying so hard to promote and using tactics we weren't used to seeing from her - to my recollection Loverboy was actually the only single she discounted immediately, which is why people still bring it up as a 'low' moment for her. But I think Loverboy would be more analogous with ME! than willow when taking into account overall context.

I personally don't have any problem with what Taylor did. I think it is just that the point of diminishing returns is inevitable and unavoidable. All pop stars will get there whether they want to or not...so when you start nearing that point, you have to play the game harder to maintain your position and eventually it does start to look desperate and egoistic to still be hungry for the chart success you were used to having rather than be willing to age gracefully* into your legacy status and take any chart toppers or records from that point out as just a nice bonus. That's where Taylor is in her career right now and that IMO is why she is getting flak over it, not entirely fair to her (or any pop star) but it is what it is.


*of course no one is ever happy with what these top-tier women choose to do because people remain pressed that Beyonce projects continue to get attention despite refusing to promote any of it.

/tl;dr

oh hell that was a book lol

Loved reading through this very insightful post! Thanks for laying it out!

Honestly I don't see anything particularly wrong with using cheap tactics to secure high peaks, but I don't particularly like it as I stated before in the Hot 100 thread in reference to Taylor and I don't really see the point in it (particularly with Taylor when she is dominating the albums chart this year). At the end of the day an artist hitting or missing number one, fav or not, doesn't make my life any duller or brighter. lol

[Deleted]

I haven't said anything all week because its not like AIWFCIU hasnt been #1 so I dont care. I also don't care what Taylor does or tbh all the gimmicks people have used lately to get #1 albums or #1 songs. Record label gimmicks have been a staple not just today but in the past. My theory is you can scam #1s but you'll never scam respect or get a classic song so if Mariah pulled a stunt for Fantasy and its remembered today its not that it went #1 that has it labeled a classic, its that people genuinely enjoy it. If her discount for Loverboy worked it would have got one week at #1 and nobody would care years later and it wouldn't be considered a classic.

So buy hits if ya want to, but in the end artistry and respect is what matters.

[jenglisbe]

Dec 21, 2020 15:27:12 GMT -5 Leigh said:

The way 'Out Here On My Own' has finally clicked and hit home after all these months

That took too long, but glad it finally did.

[Deleted]

Dec 22, 2020 3:04:41 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Wasn't exclusively talking about the lambs here on Pulse (though yes, I absolutely have seen a few shading/criticizing here, even Jazzy took note of it a few pages ago).

For the record (not saying you're implying otherwise but want to make it abundantly clear), I was referring to posts by a couple of people here not "the lambs" in general.

There's been this long-running tendency (on this board at least) that when Mariah is in a tight chart battle, people start talking about "the lambs" having meltdowns, being "toxic," etc., when there's little evidence of it.. you have one Mariah fan posting shady/petty comments vs. dozens of people attacking Mariah and her fans, and somehow the narrative becomes how "the lambs" are toxic, "the worst fanbase of all time!!", derailing the thread, etc. I am not participating in that.