Kelly Clarkson - Heartbeat Song

[Kinney]

I think the chorus is a bit faceless, but as an overall song (and with Kelly's one of a kind voice) this works really well. I don't expect this to be a #1, but I do expect it to be around on the Hot 100 for ages. Should be a great setup for the album.

[Au$tin]

Jan 14, 2015 20:10:32 GMT -5 Pink Pvssy said:

^ So it's like Halo and Already Gone? Anyway, this song is growing on me.

No, "Halo" and "Already Gone" was definitely more in comparison to "Roar" and "Brave."

[bitchplease]

Jan 14, 2015 19:44:46 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Jan 14, 2015 19:32:40 GMT -5 nick64 said:

I see some similarities but I think a lot of these "The Middle" comparisons are overexaggerated. It's not like a carbon copy or anything

For real. Like, I can hear it and I know where the comparisons are coming from, but it's not like "Roar" and "Brave" here. The two songs just happen to have similar chord progressions and melodies, but they are vastly different as well. I wouldn't even put the two songs into the same genre.

not just chord progressions, they have the same melody on the beginning of verses and beginning of choruses. i think they are 1 note away from an expensive lawsuit lol but again, nobody will be talkin about it 2 weeks from now. this song stands strong on its own. 

[Au$tin]

I mentioned the melodies, and having similar (not same) melodies for a few lines here and there is no grounds at all for a lawsuit. There's songs that have almost exact carbon copies of each other's melodies, case in point "Halo" and "Already Gone" or "Roar" and "Brave," but nothing's ever done about it because melodies themselves cannot be copyrighted. Lyrics and direct samplings of tones can, but not melodies.

[bitchplease]

Halo and Already Gone similarity is not the melody, its the drum beat and chord progressions (all background music). i bet most regular music fans wouldnt even think to compare it, had kelly not bring it to the forefront and made a huge deal about it.
this time is the melody, even regular people like us would notice it right away. i brought it up and posted it here right away as soon as i heard the 10 sec clip.
when the whole song came out, i was so shocked that they also use the same melody at the start of the verses lol

[bitchplease]

halo and already gone do not have the same melody. HBS & the middle share the exact same notes on verses for the first couple lines, except they changed the last note on each line. i know theres a law & regulation about this. there can only be xx amount of same notes consecutively, before its considered pligarism. thats why i said they r probably 1 note away from a lawsuit. this whole situation takes me back to Wash Rinse & Repeat "... music from the past from the present, well just last week, we will change a note n get away with it, wait n see..." how ironic huh lol n kelly picked this song herself!!

[Deleted]

Anyway, loving the song so much! Really curious to see what the video treatment will be. Has there been any mention of remixes?

[NeRD]

Well this isn't doing too hot on iTunes is it? So it may not be simply because radio doesn't think she's "cool enough."

[krisclarkson]

She seems to be falling victim on iTunes to the artists who's cds are out this week and are actively promoting.

[Love Plastic Love]

I don't think its doing too bad on Itunes-had a faster climb than some of her recent singles and I seem to remember MKIA struggling more. Of course, this depends on if it collapses in the next day or two. I am personally hoping we stay top 30 at least until airplay/promo/videos start rolling out to boost it.

[Jack]

I think it's six notes in a row (or seven) on the top line melody before someone would even have a case.

I don't think in this instance Kelly falls nearly as foul as Sam Smith did with Stay With Me and Tom Petty's I Won't Back Down.

Kid literally just took the opening top line melody of I Won't Back Down and made it the hook for his song.

The only reason people didn't whinge about it as much is because Tom Petty fans are less of a vocal presence online than still pretty young Jimmy Eat World fans from back in the day.

[lum]

FYI Heartbeat Song is the most added song this week with 99 adds (43 from CHR). Calm your **** now and have some faith in this.

[dbhmr]

Jan 14, 2015 21:03:02 GMT -5 bitchplease said:

Halo and Already Gone similarity is not the melody, its the drum beat and chord progressions (all background music). i bet most regular music fans wouldnt even think to compare it, had kelly not bring it to the forefront and made a huge deal about it.

What kind of revisionist history? Kelly only said anything after news sites, blogs, album reviews, and nearly every online commenter had not only pointed out the similarity, but asked if Kelly ripped Beyonce off. Then she put out a heated statement.

[Deleted]

Jan 15, 2015 1:18:43 GMT -5 dbhmr said:

Jan 14, 2015 21:03:02 GMT -5 bitchplease said:

Halo and Already Gone similarity is not the melody, its the drum beat and chord progressions (all background music). i bet most regular music fans wouldnt even think to compare it, had kelly not bring it to the forefront and made a huge deal about it.

What kind of revisionist history? Kelly only said anything after news sites, blogs, album reviews, and nearly every online commenter had not only pointed out the similarity, but asked if Kelly ripped Beyonce off. Then she put out a heated statement.

And in a Canadian interview, at that. I'm not sure she was counting on word traveling back to the media in the States so quickly. Not that she was wrong to be incensed, or to truthfully answer the question that was asked. Literally the only difference between the AG/Halo arrangements is that Kelly had more strings and Beyonce had a bit more focus on the percussion. There was a mashup of the two songs on YT and it was painfully obvious that Tedder had recycled himself.

Heartbeat/Middle is more like when MKIA came out and people noted that the hook bore some similarity to Just the Way You Are. Noticeable, but not so much so that it could result in a lawsuit - and JTWYA itself sounded like Alicia Keys' Doesn't Mean Anything. Like Austin said, you can't copyright chord progressions (you can copyright and sue over melodies, but it has to be an exact sequence of notes, and Heartbeat Song does not copy any exact sequence of notes from The Middle).

[Az Paynter]

POP:
-- 49 KELLY CLARKSON Heartbeat Song 427 0 427 2.902

HOT AC:
-- 27 KELLY CLARKSON Heartbeat Song 838 0 838 7.295

+211 Spins
+211 Bullet
+1.388 Audience

AC:
-- 27 KELLY CLARKSON Heartbeat Song 118 0 118 1.277

+56 Spins
+56 Bullet
+0.271 Audience

[J'back]

Nice to see this too 50. I'm obsessed with this song. Reminds me of how much I loved MLWSWY(which I still love). Enjoy it so much more that Catch my breath and Mr. Know it all.

[bitchplease]

Jan 15, 2015 2:43:46 GMT -5 @antigonerising said:

Jan 15, 2015 1:18:43 GMT -5 dbhmr said:

What kind of revisionist history? Kelly only said anything after news sites, blogs, album reviews, and nearly every online commenter had not only pointed out the similarity, but asked if Kelly ripped Beyonce off. Then she put out a heated statement.

And in a Canadian interview, at that. I'm not sure she was counting on word traveling back to the media in the States so quickly. Not that she was wrong to be incensed, or to truthfully answer the question that was asked. Literally the only difference between the AG/Halo arrangements is that Kelly had more strings and Beyonce had a bit more focus on the percussion. There was a mashup of the two songs on YT and it was painfully obvious that Tedder had recycled himself.

Heartbeat/Middle is more like when MKIA came out and people noted that the hook bore some similarity to Just the Way You Are. Noticeable, but not so much so that it could result in a lawsuit - and JTWYA itself sounded like Alicia Keys' Doesn't Mean Anything. Like Austin said, you can't copyright chord progressions (you can copyright and sue over melodies, but it has to be an exact sequence of notes, and Heartbeat Song does not copy any exact sequence of notes from The Middle).

yes it does copy exact sequence of notes from the middle, im sure its not enough for a lawsuit tho. label isnt stupid. listen to both beginning of verses n beginning of choruses on both songs. especially on verses they only change 1 note at the end of each line. anyway im sick talkin about this. it wont matter in the long run. after multiple listens, i dont even think about the middle anymore.

yay top 50 on pop!!! get on it pop! this song is tailored made for u from a hot AC queen!!!

[jjose712]

Jan 14, 2015 22:38:10 GMT -5 Jack said:

I think it's six notes in a row (or seven) on the top line melody before someone would even have a case.

I don't think in this instance Kelly falls nearly as foul as Sam Smith did with Stay With Me and Tom Petty's I Won't Back Down.

Kid literally just took the opening top line melody of I Won't Back Down and made it the hook for his song.

The only reason people didn't whinge about it as much is because Tom Petty fans are less of a vocal presence online than still pretty young Jimmy Eat World fans from back in the day.

The truth is Stay with me and I won't back down have a few notes in common in the chorus, but the rest is very very different, the tone, the instrumentation, the rhythm and of course the lyrics.
Pop uses the same chords all the time, so a few notes similarities is pretty common.

This is going to be mentioned a lot more times than the Sam/Tom case, and there's a good reason for that. To know there are notes in common between STay with me and I won't back down you have to hear both songs because STay with me won't bring memories of the Tom Petty song when you listen it.
That's not the case with this song, the comparisions with The middle were inmediate because even they are very different the rhytm is more similar, so you can hear the similarities way easier.
The fact that The middle is their most famous song helps to make the conection too.

This is not an Halo/Already gone, or even a Me and my broken heart/Lonely no more, but it's similarities are way more obvious than Stay with me/i won't back down

[bitchplease]

JTWYA and MKIA are only similar on tempo and vibe. no melody copying goin on there.
and on HBS case, its not kelly's fault at all she wasnt even involved on creating the song. she heard the song from label, liked it and recorded it.
Halo/AG also was not kelly's fault. its ryan tedder's.
i dunno why a few kelly fans are so defensive, go back to KCExpress where any negativity regarding kelly are not allowed. this is pulse MUSIC board for any artists including jimmy eat worlds lol

[Jack]

Jan 15, 2015 8:38:55 GMT -5 jjose712 said:

Jan 14, 2015 22:38:10 GMT -5 Jack said:

I think it's six notes in a row (or seven) on the top line melody before someone would even have a case.

I don't think in this instance Kelly falls nearly as foul as Sam Smith did with Stay With Me and Tom Petty's I Won't Back Down.

Kid literally just took the opening top line melody of I Won't Back Down and made it the hook for his song.

The only reason people didn't whinge about it as much is because Tom Petty fans are less of a vocal presence online than still pretty young Jimmy Eat World fans from back in the day.

The truth is Stay with me and I won't back down have a few notes in common in the chorus, but the rest is very very different, the tone, the instrumentation, the rhythm and of course the lyrics.
Pop uses the same chords all the time, so a few notes similarities is pretty common.

This is going to be mentioned a lot more times than the Sam/Tom case, and there's a good reason for that. To know there are notes in common between STay with me and I won't back down you have to hear both songs because STay with me won't bring memories of the Tom Petty song when you listen it.
That's not the case with this song, the comparisions with The middle were inmediate because even they are very different the rhytm is more similar, so you can hear the similarities way easier.
The fact that The middle is their most famous song helps to make the conection too.

This is not an Halo/Already gone, or even a Me and my broken heart/Lonely no more, but it's similarities are way more obvious than Stay with me/i won't back down

Right that's what you think. You may get more of a feel of one song or the other. And since music is subjective, you're entitled to feel how you do. But I will simplify it for you in regards to an objective argument: The top line melody for Sam's Stay With Me, the hook, the bit everyone remembers is the first ten notes of the top line melody for Tom Petty's I Won't Back Down.

Heartbeat Song doesn't get close to having ten notes in succession that are the same as The Middle, so no I'm afraid despite you thinking it leans on another song more than Stay With Me does with I Won't Back Down, in regards to songwriting, it just doesn't. It's well known within the industry that Sam and his people settled out of court, quietly, anyway. So you aren't even practically right, let alone legally or musically.

Heartbeat Song's tempo changes, production, and like I say the successive top line melody notes, whilst may seem like they blueprint to The Middle, in actuality that's just a feeling or a whim people get. Not based in fact - not factual enough to make it extraordinarily more similar to another song or two than 90% of Pop music anyway. It shares a lot of similarities with Such Great Heights and I'm Yours, too. But nobody in the populous came for those songs sounding like The Middle, because nobody in the media did. I dare say most of the instances on forums or Twitter about this song sounding like that one, was them reading it did in an article and then assimilating that discovery as their own.

Like I say, the reason why people came for Sam less (not legally, they did) was because the demographic that would be aware of I Won't Back Down with that familiarity are not the demographic that are vocal and present on social media.

[jjose712]

It's subjective, but the truth is the comparision with The middle were inmediate, while that was not the case with i won't back down.

And i don't think it was just a question of demographics because half of Sam's fans are in fact adults, most of them know Tom Petty. Of course I won't back down was a hit long time ago and that's not the case of The middle

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Jan 14, 2015 19:01:58 GMT -5 BDGeek said:

Could someone please explain to me how this song's lyrics are "juvenile" or "immature?" To me it's a pretty universally relatable theme. Teens aren't the only ones who fall in love for the first time.

It's not the theme people would refer to when talking about immature lyrics, it's the actual lyrics and words used and how they're used. (note: I'm not saying whether this song is juvenile or not, I'm just answering your question.)

[Jack]

Jan 15, 2015 9:30:59 GMT -5 jjose712 said:

It's subjective, but the truth is the comparision with The middle were inmediate, while that was not the case with i won't back down.

And i don't think it was just a question of demographics because half of Sam's fans are in fact adults, most of them know Tom Petty. Of course I won't back down was a hit long time ago and that's not the case of The middle

Now see, there you go again with "the truth".

I've told you what the truth is. Musically, legally, practically.

Keep ignoring it should you like. The comparison is more immediate literally, while it not be figuratively to you, in not recognizing it. Like I say I'm talking reality versus interpretation.

It's a question of demographics in regards to the discussion not being mostly limited to dinner tables and golf courses as opposed to out there on Twitter in Instagram. Even if you've made the connection, and the relevancy in regards to the age of the songs you seem to have relented on, it doesn't seem you get why that connection means that people who enjoyed the song in the 80's aren't listening to Top 40 and discussing the similarities with Stay With Me.

In any case, I have spelled it out. I'm not going to find other ways of explaining it. Enjoy your own conclusions.

Jan 15, 2015 8:39:37 GMT -5 bitchplease said:

jimmy eat worlds

No such artist exists.

[bitchplease]

^^ great post. the similarity is not subjective. notes are black n white on paper. its a fact, not opinion. some people with less musical ears might not recognize it much. but its a fact.
it doesnt make anyone a bad kelly fans to recognize the similarity.

[Ling-Ling]

Jan 15, 2015 9:15:49 GMT -5 Jack said:

It's well known within the industry that Sam and his people settled out of court, quietly, anyway. So you aren't even practically right, let alone legally or musically.

Well known inside the industry? How convenient. One of the biggest songs and new artists of the past year gets sued and settles out of court and there's not a single article, record or mention of it anywhere? Even more suspicious given the songs swath of Grammy noms. Sounds like conjecture to me, let's just say I'm not gonna take your insider word for it. I don't deny the songs similarities or the idea that Tom Petty could sue, but let's not throw out some "facts" that can't be proven to make our argument stronger (especially when it's not even needed, the songs clearly sound alike, tons of people have noted it and proven it).

That being said, this song is glaringly similar to "The Middle" in places. I don't understand why there's even an argument, it IS. Doesn't mean this song doesn't stand on it's own, because it does IMO.

[Love Plastic Love]

I probably qualify as having a bad musical ear-I have never really heard the comparisons between Sam Smith and Tom Petty (even the youtube video I found is like you need to change the pitch and tempo of both **distorts both so much you can barely recognize them** see they are identical!!) but MKIA and the Bruno song sound way, way too similar to me. Same with Halo/Already Gone.
I can hear The Middle comparisons, but I guess the feel of the song is so different it just doesn't bother me that much. I don't think any of this is Kelly's fault though. Its just something that happens with pop artists and you can find similar discussions going on in almost every pop thread about every song (if people care enough to even have the discussion).

Good to see this top 50!

[Jack]

Jan 15, 2015 9:56:53 GMT -5 Ling-Ling said:

Jan 15, 2015 9:15:49 GMT -5 Jack said:

It's well known within the industry that Sam and his people settled out of court, quietly, anyway. So you aren't even practically right, let alone legally or musically.

Well known inside the industry? How convenient. One of the biggest songs and new artists of the past year gets sued and settles out of court and there's not a single article, record or mention of it anywhere? Even more suspicious given the songs swath of Grammy noms. Sounds like conjecture to me, let's just say I'm not gonna take your insider word for it. I don't deny the songs similarities or the idea that Tom Petty could sue, but let's not throw out some "facts" that can't be proven to make our argument stronger (especially when it's not even needed, the songs clearly sound alike, tons of people have noted it and proven it).

That being said, this song is glaringly similar to "The Middle" in places. I don't understand why there's even an argument, it IS. Doesn't mean this song doesn't stand on it's own, because it does IMO.

Oh no. Ling-Ling doesn't think I'm credible. I shall have to pick up the pieces of my broken self and start again.

If only there was ever anything that ever happened in the entertainment industry without Ling-Ling reading about it.

It was hardly the crux of my argument. As has been pointed out one cannot sue for chords progressions, nor can they for tempo matches (despite the fact that Kelly's song changes throughout) one can barely sue for production similarities. What they can is for a sequence of notes in a melody that extend past a certain number. I can get out a damn piano and explain this if that's what's required. The ten notes that make up the the hook of Sam Smith's song are the same ten notes that I Won't Back Down's two verses open with. In relative terms, Heartbeat Song doesn't get near that in its top line sequence before it deviates. These are the circumstances that go beyond people whinging about it on a message board, to it becoming a litigious likeness.

Yes Heartbeat Song and The Middle (and Such Great Heights and The Middle, and I'm Yours and The Middle, and Such Great Heights and I'm Yours) are similar songs. I haven't denied it. My point being if there was to be endless posts and people coming interjecting every five minutes every time a Pop song sounded like another Pop song (or that same damn Pop song over and over again) there would be little time or space to discuss anything else.

It's moot anyway. The discussion will blow over when the song becomes old enough not to be a new song that people are drawing comparisons to either because they've drawn them themselves or been fed them, and if it becomes big enough that it becomes ubiquitous enough in its own right anyway.

[Ling-Ling]

Jan 15, 2015 10:25:31 GMT -5 Jack said:

Oh no. Ling-Ling doesn't think I'm credible. I shall have to pick up the pieces of my broken self and start again.

If only there was ever anything that ever happened in the entertainment industry without Ling-Ling reading about it.

It was hardly the crux of my argument. As has been pointed out one cannot sue for chords progressions, nor can they for tempo matches (despite the fact that Kelly's song changes throughout) one can barely sue for production similarities. What they can is for a sequence of notes in a melody that extend past a certain number. I can get out a damn piano and explain this if that's what's required. The ten notes that make up the the hook of Sam Smith's song are the same ten notes that I Won't Back Down's two verses open with. In relative terms, Heartbeat Song doesn't get near that in its top line sequence before it deviates. These are the circumstances that go beyond people whinging about it on a message board, to it becoming a litigious likeness.

Oh, I agree with you. The songs are similar, all it takes is a simple Google search to see numerous people have broken down the notes and melodies, etc. My point was, you don't have to post rumors and libelous information to prove your point, because it's already proven.

But I'm glad that you're able to pick up those pieces and move on. Tomorrow is another day after all.

[bitchplease]

yasss jack! i only thought about the middle after listening to the 10 sec clip and the first night of premier.
now the song stands strong on its own. again soon the comparison will be long gone.

[BDGeek]

Jan 15, 2015 9:40:28 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Jan 14, 2015 19:01:58 GMT -5 BDGeek said:

Could someone please explain to me how this song's lyrics are "juvenile" or "immature?" To me it's a pretty universally relatable theme. Teens aren't the only ones who fall in love for the first time.

It's not the theme people would refer to when talking about immature lyrics, it's the actual lyrics and words used and how they're used. (note: I'm not saying whether this song is juvenile or not, I'm just answering your question.)

But which particular lyrics in this song are immature? That's what I'm not getting.