14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on May 26, 2015 23:20:03 GMT -5
Here's a healthy dose of "You're an idiot." for you all to...um..."enjoy."
Yes, he really did say that. Yes, he has a Twitter. It's @unconsult. Yes, people have been tweeting him. Yes, all of his answers are as stupid as that quote.
There is. no. room. for. backwards. thinking. like. that. AT ALL. Removing and/or handicapping the amount of rotation that females get is not the solution. Collectively, they barely have a pulse as it is. This article is outrageous. It's also blowing up. Jennifer Nettles even caught its wind...
Glorious.
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on May 26, 2015 23:40:05 GMT -5
Here's a healthy dose of "You're an idiot." for you all to...um..."enjoy." Yes, he really did say that. Yes, he has a Twitter. It's @unconsult. Yes, people have been tweeting him. Yes, all of his answers are as stupid as that quote. There is. no. room. for. backwards. thinking. like. that. AT ALL. Removing and/or handicapping the amount of rotation that females get is not the solution. Collectively, they barely have a pulse as it is. This article is outrageous. It's also blowing up. Jennifer Nettles even caught its wind... Glorious. We here know why females aren't played nearly as much as they should be on radio, but what these people don't freakin' realize is they have the power to change that. Yes the numbers say listeners aren't as into female voices as male voices but that's because they never hear them anymore. It's been shown that female voices have generally worse survey scores compared to male voices, but females never get enough airplay to make it an even playing field. I can't believe anyone would have the nerve to say that, in the public light no less for everyone to see. Think of how asinine this is, seriously. What year is this? I'm sorry, but if pop radio can be swimming in money with countless females leading the charge, then there's zero excuse for there to be so little females on country radio and this quote is about as offensive as a quote can get.
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14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on May 26, 2015 23:45:07 GMT -5
We here know why females aren't played nearly as much as they should be on radio, but what these people don't freakin' realize is they have the power to change that. Yes the numbers say listeners aren't as into female voices as male voices but that's because they never hear them anymore. It's been shown that female voices have generally worse survey scores compared to male voices, but females never get enough airplay to make it an even playing field. I can't believe anyone would have the nerve to say that, in the public light no less for everyone to see. Think of how asinine this is, seriously. What year is this? I'm sorry, but if pop radio can be swimming in money with countless females leading the charge, then there's zero excuse for there to be so little females on country radio and this quote is about as offensive as a quote can get. Agreed entirely, obviously, but with the bold especially, you hit the nail on the head. Kurt even tweeted about that.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on May 26, 2015 23:53:02 GMT -5
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someguy
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Post by someguy on May 27, 2015 0:02:51 GMT -5
I know times have changed, but when country radio exploded in the 90s, women were getting played right along with men and, in some cases, by the end of the decade they were even getting played more. Like others have said, there's no way that they can test as well as the men if listeners never hear them anymore. This is such backward thinking. It's mind-boggling to think that someone thinks this in 2015, let alone tweets about it publicly.
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Kurt
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Post by Kurt on May 27, 2015 0:55:28 GMT -5
I'm connected to the group of writers who run country blog The Shotgun Seat (Markus is one of them) and I think they're going to write about it, but in advance of some research I'd like to do tomorrow, does anyone know if any of the data we can publicly access (e.g. Mediabase callout) supports or refutes his claims? Obviously we know that it's somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy that if you don't play female-fronted songs, their music won't research as well due to low familiarity, but backing that up with hard data would make that more convincing (and help show that Hill's technique of solely relying on hard data - that ratings drop if you play women any more than 17% of the time - can be faulty, even if the audience of that quote was just country radio programmers).
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someguy
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Post by someguy on May 27, 2015 1:10:21 GMT -5
Martina McBride has responded to this. I can't figure out how to link it on my phone, but she posted it on her Facebook of anyone is interested.
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14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on May 27, 2015 1:15:18 GMT -5
I'm connected to the group of writers who run country blog The Shotgun Seat (Markus is one of them) and I think they're going to write about it, but in advance of some research I'd like to do tomorrow, does anyone know if any of the data we can publicly access (e.g. Mediabase callout) supports or refutes his claims? Obviously we know that it's somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy that if you don't play female-fronted songs, their music won't research as well due to low familiarity, but backing that up with hard data would make that more convincing (and help show that Hill's technique of solely relying on hard data - that ratings drop if you play women any more than 17% of the time - can be faulty, even if the audience of that quote was just country radio programmers). Not sure if this answers your question or if you've read this, but it breaks everything down about radio and the treatment females have gotten pretty perfectly. It's a few months old, but nothing's changed to make any of the information illegitimate or outdated. www.mjsbigblog.com/the-country-radio-climb-how-are-major-labels-serving-new-acts-male-female.htm
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14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on May 27, 2015 2:09:22 GMT -5
Martina McBride has responded to this. I can't figure out how to link it on my phone, but she posted it on her Facebook of anyone is interested. What's even better than her response is her commentary to many of her fans that replied to this post.
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bboat11
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Post by bboat11 on May 27, 2015 3:46:10 GMT -5
Wow, leave it to Martina to always be such a class act. Seriously, I don't think anyone would have blamed her if she had ripped into this guy. How utterly offensive. I honestly would not be the country fan I am without my main ladies Martina, Sara, Reba, and Terri on constant rotation... Heck, I wouldn't even be the PERSON that I am. Just try to imagine country music history without Reba, Loretta, Patsy, or Dolly. I honestly cannot. Sure, '90s country would have been pretty good in the hands of George, Tim, Kenny, and Toby, but there is no doubt that a significant portion of the music that made that decade so great came from the likes of Martina, Faith, Reba, Shania, Pam, Patty, Trisha, Lee Ann, LeAnn, Terri, Wynonna, Sara, the Dixie Chicks, SHeDAISY, and so many others. Their contribution is undeniable, and frankly radio is not nearly as fun to listen to without that vast pool of female voices.
In fact, I used to listen to the radio for hours as a kid just to try to catch anything from Martina, Sara, Reba, Terri, etc. because there is just something so special about hearing your favorite artists on the radio. Back when there was still hope that at least one of them would come on at least once in a 2-hour period. Nowadays, since George is basically rejected too, I have completely given up. The radio stays quiet. The iPod stays quite active. Any system that rejects somebody like Mickey Guyton, Cassadee Pope, and Kacey Musgraves is a system that I will not tolerate...
As for Mr. Hill, somebody needs to toss HIS salad... I am anticipating he may have already worn out his welcome in the music industry...
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Post by 43dudleyvillas on May 27, 2015 7:30:40 GMT -5
I'm connected to the group of writers who run country blog The Shotgun Seat (Markus is one of them) and I think they're going to write about it, but in advance of some research I'd like to do tomorrow, does anyone know if any of the data we can publicly access (e.g. Mediabase callout) supports or refutes his claims? Obviously we know that it's somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy that if you don't play female-fronted songs, their music won't research as well due to low familiarity, but backing that up with hard data would make that more convincing (and help show that Hill's technique of solely relying on hard data - that ratings drop if you play women any more than 17% of the time - can be faulty, even if the audience of that quote was just country radio programmers). I posted a few snapshots here, here, and here. Songs considered are Kacey's "Merry Go Round," Little Big Town's "Girl Crush," Miranda's "Little Red Wagon," and Carrie's "Little Toy Guns," and the data, broken out by gender, suggests that female support (especially young female support) for female-fronted singles is not the issue so much as male distaste for female-fronted singles.
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jrb56
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Post by jrb56 on May 27, 2015 7:49:12 GMT -5
Totally agree. Madiabase's latest callout scores in the female listener demo show 3 female led singles in the top 10 there are none in the top 10 in the male demo. As to how other genre treat female led singles " Girl Crush is at #34 Mediabase HAC 20 days after impact it was at #34 Country 80 days after impact.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on May 27, 2015 11:42:56 GMT -5
I love that Martina took a stand and responded to that monstrosity. Good on her. I also noticed after the fact that the headline he used for his statement was a pun from one of her songs, so I imagine that hit a little close to home for her in particular. And I noticed that Sara Evans liked Martina's message on FB, which I got further enjoyment out of. I hope that other women follow her example and stand up for this and that something comes out of this being brought to light, because change is only going to happen if radio wakes up and realizes they're wrong and this controversy could be the spark to ignite that. At least, that's what I'm hoping comes out of all this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 11:55:33 GMT -5
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on May 27, 2015 12:43:48 GMT -5
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bigfan101
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Post by bigfan101 on May 27, 2015 12:47:51 GMT -5
^ post of the year.
That guy should be banned from radio. If they just look at sales, then they will realize that women singles are selling as well as many male singles if not better.
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on May 27, 2015 12:57:49 GMT -5
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rsmatto
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Post by rsmatto on May 27, 2015 15:12:10 GMT -5
Radio consultant Keith Hill gives perhaps the quote of the decade about the lack of female artists and why it's happening in Last Night's CountryAircheck report.Finally, Hill cautions against playing too many females. And playing them back to back, he says, is a no-no. “If you want to make ratings in Country radio, take females out,” he asserts. “The reason is mainstream Country radio generates more quarter hours from female listeners at the rate of 70 to 75%, and women like male artists. I’m basing that not only on music tests from over the years, but more than 300 client radio stations. The expectation is we’re principally a male format with a smaller female component. I’ve got about 40 music databases in front of me and the percentage of females in the one with the most is 19%. Trust me, I play great female records and we’ve got some right now; they’re just not the lettuce in our salad. The lettuce is Luke Bryan and Blake Shelton, Keith Urban and artists like that. The tomatoes of our salad are the females.” I read this and instantly thought it'd cause a shitstorm even moreso than Gary Overton's "you're dead without radio."
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on May 27, 2015 15:15:59 GMT -5
We've been discussing this since last night in the non-singles and news thread. Perhaps jhomes87 or Kurt can take those posts into this thread?
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on May 27, 2015 15:19:12 GMT -5
Typically, the tomato goes on top of the lettuce.
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rsmatto
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Post by rsmatto on May 27, 2015 15:19:48 GMT -5
We've been discussing this since last night in the non-singles and news thread. Perhaps jhomes87 or Kurt can take those posts into this thread? Yeah, I figured it would be better to have it's own space. I didn't even think to look there. I read it last night and instantly thought it was "stirring debate."
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on May 27, 2015 15:27:52 GMT -5
We've been discussing this since last night in the non-singles and news thread. Perhaps jhomes87 or Kurt can take those posts into this thread? Yeah, I figured it would be better to have it's own space. I didn't even think to look there. I read it last night and instantly thought it was "stirring debate." It definitely deserves its own thread.
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rsmatto
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Post by rsmatto on May 27, 2015 15:34:10 GMT -5
Yeah, I figured it would be better to have it's own space. I didn't even think to look there. I read it last night and instantly thought it was "stirring debate." It definitely deserves its own thread. I thought it was 'crazy' enough of a topic to discuss that I posted a story with the quote on Roughstock.
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sbp17
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Post by sbp17 on May 27, 2015 15:36:55 GMT -5
I honestly would not be the country fan I am without my main ladies Martina, Sara, Reba, and Terri on constant rotation... Same here. While Reba was the primary driver that got me into country, it was hearing Reba, Lorrie, The Judds, and Pam regularly on the radio that really made me a country fan.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on May 27, 2015 15:51:12 GMT -5
at the #SaladGate title
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on May 27, 2015 16:06:52 GMT -5
What Hill said actually scares the crap out of me in terms of the narrow-sightedness of country radio. Hill just reinforced the fact of a "free marketplace" and "ratings have never been higher", which Windmills pointed out actually declined the second half of 2014 through February of 2015.
The reason they don't want to play females back to back is because to them it doesn't fit into Hill's convoluted thinking of what they desire on today's country radio. To target the trend chasing 18-34 year old demographic that enjoys country radio expanding its musical boundaries into something that's not country, and long term that's not healthy for your genre as it's just choosing to ignore the listeners who supported country radio for years. Hill points to numbers backing his point but how can anyone expect different results if country radio makes it an imbalanced playing field where males are played at nausea and females don't get a chance to prove Hill's notion wrong.
It's simple, if they play more females then that would solve the problem of "listeners want to hear male voices over female voices". It paints a picture that this is somehow the listeners fault which is just not true and pretty damn offensive, as if listeners are just mindless idiots.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 16:13:20 GMT -5
Maybe he wanted to start a debate. He's a loser for sure. However, maybe good will come from this and other radio people will distance themselves from this guy and play more women. Hopefully.
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14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on May 27, 2015 16:37:41 GMT -5
He definitely didn't say this to start a debate, judging by his tweets over the past 24 hours.
Glad this got its own thread. It's quickly blowing up on social media and there are journalistic pieces currently being written in response to it. Wouldn't surprise me to see Grady Smith write about it in The Guardian before week's end.
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avalyn
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Post by avalyn on May 27, 2015 16:48:47 GMT -5
Alison Bonaguro from CMT interviewed Keith Hill. Men are Lettuce, Women are TomatoesHe was asked what he thought of Jennifer's tweet and he said this "“I understand where she’s at. She’s one of the best female vocalists there is. If she sees it as an opportunity, that’s fine.”
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14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on May 27, 2015 16:52:54 GMT -5
He definitely didn't say this to start a debate, judging by his tweets over the past 24 hours. Glad this got its own thread. It's quickly blowing up on social media and there are journalistic pieces currently being written in response to it. Wouldn't surprise me to see Grady Smith write about it in The Guardian before week's end. Bada-bing, bada-boom: gu.com/p/499mz/stw
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