felipe
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Post by felipe on Nov 3, 2015 16:44:45 GMT -5
They are slotting people into categories based on their perception of what that category should be. It is total stereotyping. Counter examples to everything, though. All here are chart watchers with exposure to all sorts of music, so lots of counter examples among people who post here. If for instance, we say that all 18 year old gay males love Cher and Madonna, I will bet you will come up with an 18 year old gay male here who does not. Because we are all chart watchers with exposure to all sorts of music, if we say all 25 year old straight men hate Britney Spears, you will likely find someone here who is straight that likes Britney Spears. Fruitless discussion from that end because no one will agree with everyone. But every discussion here is mostly based on generalizations or stereotyping, isn't it? It has been said here on Pulse that people's perception of Nick Jonas changed after the crotch-grabbing pictures. That's a generalization, isn't it? It has been said that Adele sold 1 mi last week every every middle-American and soccer mom bought her single. It has been said that black people don't like Macklemore because he's a white hipster. All of these and generalizations, right? I didn't see people raising a fuss against generalizations when they were written here. And frankly, how can we discuss taking into account every single individual in America (or even the world)? Is there any way to discuss matters without generalizing? |
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Nov 3, 2015 16:52:17 GMT -5
But Lorde is provocative and rebellious, and she doesn't seem to have nearly as many gay fans as Ariana Grande, who doesn't really try to sell a rebellious image at all. And Ariana's gay following seemed to only grow after her outfits got smaller. I can only speak from experience based on who I know (which is probably more than you can tbh) but Lorde is definitely more liked by the gay men I know than Ariana. People's love for Ariana here on Pulse seems to be way bigger them for Lorde. You can see the anticipation for her music, the comments on her thread, how furious some people get when one complain about her ponytail, etc. But then again it was my impression. And I can still swap Ariana for someone else entirely non-rebellious, such as Beyoncé, my point still stands. Just because it doesn't make sense doesn't mean it's not true, does it? Have you never read the amount of complaint by gay fans whenever Christina Aguilera puts on weight? Or the amount of compliments whenever Jennifer Lopez puts on a revealing dress and people on Pulse go "Flawless" or "Perfect" for two whole pages? Just because you say it doesn't make it true. People don't say flawless because a dress is revealing. Do you actually seriously believe that or do you just like digging holes in the ground? No, I'm not digging holes. Why do they say flawless then? Or Fierce or Legend everytime there's a picture of her in a sexy outfit? You have noticed that pattern, right? |
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Nov 3, 2015 17:00:10 GMT -5
Just because it doesn't make sense doesn't mean it's not true, does it? Have you never read the amount of complaint by gay fans whenever Christina Aguilera puts on weight? Or the amount of compliments whenever Jennifer Lopez puts on a revealing dress and people on Pulse go "Flawless" or "Perfect" for two whole pages? I think I've seen Christina criticized more for her off-putting personality than her weight gains. But, of course, this is all just anecdotal evidence. We can't just make generalizations for an entire demographic based on our own personal experiences... I don't remember Kelly losing all her gay fans when she gained weight; for instance. But you have seen Christina critized for her weight, right? The discussion was originally about sexism and how men dictate what a popstar (even Cher) should look like. So in your opinion, whose comments are more likely to influence Christina Aguilera regarding her weight? The ones coming from her gay fans or the ones coming from straight men who don't even buy her albums to begin with? Whose comments and expectation are most likely to influence Cher on her wardrobe decisions? The ones coming from her gay fans or the ones from straight men who don't even know she's still performing? |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Nov 3, 2015 17:18:40 GMT -5
They are slotting people into categories based on their perception of what that category should be. It is total stereotyping. Counter examples to everything, though. All here are chart watchers with exposure to all sorts of music, so lots of counter examples among people who post here. If for instance, we say that all 18 year old gay males love Cher and Madonna, I will bet you will come up with an 18 year old gay male here who does not. Because we are all chart watchers with exposure to all sorts of music, if we say all 25 year old straight men hate Britney Spears, you will likely find someone here who is straight that likes Britney Spears. Fruitless discussion from that end because no one will agree with everyone. But every discussion here is mostly based on generalizations or stereotyping, isn't it? It has been said here on Pulse that people's perception of Nick Jonas changed after the crotch-grabbing pictures. That's a generalization, isn't it? It has been said that Adele sold 1 mi last week every every middle-American and soccer mom bought her single. It has been said that black people don't like Macklemore because he's a white hipster. All of these and generalizations, right? I didn't see people raising a fuss against generalizations when they were written here. And frankly, how can we discuss taking into account every single individual in America (or even the world)? Is there any way to discuss matters without generalizing?
And none of those generalizations are actually true. For example, 1 million people bought Adele's single and maybe some "soccer mom's" actually did but I bet lots of soccer mom's did not.
These generalizations are one person's opinion of what everybody looks like or how everybody behaves or what everybody is supposed to like.
Just because someone posts a stereotype here and people read it, does not make it true. It is someone's perception only. Someone may agree with that perception, and someone may not.
I am not against the discussion, I was just agreeing with the poster above me that this discussion is all about stereotyping certain groups into certain categories:
Like: All gay men love Cher and all straight men don't, etc.
Just because things like that are posted does not make it true. All it says it that is one persons opinion of how people are.
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Nov 3, 2015 17:36:09 GMT -5
Yeah, I get your point, but like I said we can't really quantify or produce the numbers to how many gay men like Cher as opposed to the number of straight men like her. So we either make generalizations or we can't discuss it at all.
All the generalizations I wrote above (real examples from Pulse) are not fact, but I guess every reader is able to get that and it doesn't make sense for me to say "Oh, not everybody who bought Adele's single is a soccer mom because my friend and I bought the single and we're not soccer moms" as if that would diminish the number of older women who bought the song.
If one says that a lot of young girls bought One Direction's last single, is that stereotyping?
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Nov 3, 2015 18:03:19 GMT -5
The issue I have with your generalizations aren't that you're generalizing or stereotyping because, yeah, I do agree that there is some basis of truth in there to some degree. It's not secret that Cher caters to a gay fanbase or that pretty much any diva has a significant fanbase of gay men. The issue I have is the perceived intent behind your argument. You say that female performers feel required to dress in revealing clothing because gay men want them to. Quite frankly, the arguments you gave around that are borderline offensive, yet you completely ignored my earlier point about gay men admiring strong female figures who have confidence and went back to your point that oozes in shallow and ridiculous reasoning. If someone says "fierce" or "legend" in response to a photo of a pop diva, a) it's almost always a compliment and b) it's almost never because we're impressed with how much skin they're showing. When I think Cher's fashions and image, I never think of her in revealing clothing. I always think of over-the-top wigs and dresses.
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Nov 3, 2015 18:21:03 GMT -5
The issue I have with your generalizations aren't that you're generalizing or stereotyping because, yeah, I do agree that there is some basis of truth in there to some degree. It's not secret that Cher caters to a gay fanbase or that pretty much any diva has a significant fanbase of gay men. The issue I have is the perceived intent behind your argument. You say that female performers feel required to dress in revealing clothing because gay men want them to. Quite frankly, the arguments you gave around that are borderline offensive, yet you completely ignored my earlier point about gay men admiring strong female figures who have confidence and went back to your point that oozes in shallow and ridiculous reasoning. If someone says "fierce" or "legend" in response to a photo of a pop diva, a) it's almost always a compliment and b) it's almost never because we're impressed with how much skin they're showing. When I think Cher's fashions and image, I never think of her in revealing clothing. I always think of over-the-top wigs and dresses. But what is offensive about my post? I'm really sorry if it came accross as offensive, that was not my intention at all. I do agree there seems to be an admiration for strong female figures (even some who are not linked to sex, such as Barbra Streisand), but is Britney Spears considered a strong woman? Or Ariana? Or Selena Gomez? Or is it their sexy outfits who show how strong and confident they are? On the other hand, would you say that gay men don't stan so much for strong, confident gay singers, like Adam lambert? |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Nov 3, 2015 18:26:18 GMT -5
The issue I have with your generalizations aren't that you're generalizing or stereotyping because, yeah, I do agree that there is some basis of truth in there to some degree. It's not secret that Cher caters to a gay fanbase or that pretty much any diva has a significant fanbase of gay men. The issue I have is the perceived intent behind your argument. You say that female performers feel required to dress in revealing clothing because gay men want them to. Quite frankly, the arguments you gave around that are borderline offensive, yet you completely ignored my earlier point about gay men admiring strong female figures who have confidence and went back to your point that oozes in shallow and ridiculous reasoning. If someone says "fierce" or "legend" in response to a photo of a pop diva, a) it's almost always a compliment and b) it's almost never because we're impressed with how much skin they're showing. When I think Cher's fashions and image, I never think of her in revealing clothing. I always think of over-the-top wigs and dresses. But what is offensive about my post? I'm really sorry if it came accross as offensive, that was not my intention at all. I do agree there seems to be an admiration for strong female figures (even some who are not linked to sex, such as Barbra Streisand), but is Britney Spears considered a strong woman? Or Ariana? Or Selena Gomez? Or is it their sexy outfits who show how strong and confident they are? On the other hand, would you say that gay men don't stan so much for strong, confident gay singers, like Adam lambert? I can't speak for Ariana or Selena because they're children and I honestly don't know anyone in person who likes them but Britney I would say is a strong woman and she has camp value that goes over well. I really don't know why you're going back to this idea of "sexy outfits" though since I commented on that already. Like wtf are you even on about? |
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Nov 3, 2015 18:52:26 GMT -5
I just went back to the idea of sexy outfits because I don't really see Britney Spears as a strong figure. Or Jennifer Lopez. Or Katy Perry, Christina Aguilera, Nicki Minaj, Mariah Carey or most of these pop divas. I do have seen though people say they dress like that because they are "confident" (I guess Demi Lovato has even made that point recently), so I thought maybe that's where you where going with the strong women argument.
So, in your opinion, all these gay divas that dress in similar fashion, their clothes are not at all related to their fans' expectations? Do you think it's because of our sexist society and they dress like that to appeal to their straight fans? Or do you think their clothes bear no relation to fans' expectations and sexism?
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Anticonformity
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Post by Anticonformity on Nov 4, 2015 2:39:09 GMT -5
They are slotting people into categories based on their perception of what that category should be. It is total stereotyping. Counter examples to everything, though. All here are chart watchers with exposure to all sorts of music, so lots of counter examples among people who post here. If for instance, we say that all 18 year old gay males love Cher and Madonna, I will bet you will come up with an 18 year old gay male here who does not. Because we are all chart watchers with exposure to all sorts of music, if we say all 25 year old straight men hate Britney Spears, you will likely find someone here who is straight that likes Britney Spears.Fruitless discussion from that end because no one will agree with everyone. So true... My bro is gay and loves Hanson and Tokio Hotel / a bunch of indie artists... He'd have to be payed to go to say a Taylor Swift concert (and it would have to be a lot of $$$ lol) I'm straight and love Britney, Kelly, Katy, etc... Stereotyping is a dark road to go down... |
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carreramd
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Post by carreramd on Nov 4, 2015 9:44:18 GMT -5
But every discussion here is mostly based on generalizations or stereotyping, isn't it? It has been said here on Pulse that people's perception of Nick Jonas changed after the crotch-grabbing pictures. That's a generalization, isn't it? It has been said that Adele sold 1 mi last week every every middle-American and soccer mom bought her single. It has been said that black people don't like Macklemore because he's a white hipster. All of these and generalizations, right? I didn't see people raising a fuss against generalizations when they were written here. And frankly, how can we discuss taking into account every single individual in America (or even the world)? Is there any way to discuss matters without generalizing?
And none of those generalizations are actually true. For example, 1 million people bought Adele's single and maybe some "soccer mom's" actually did but I bet lots of soccer mom's did not.
These generalizations are one person's opinion of what everybody looks like or how everybody behaves or what everybody is supposed to like.
Just because someone posts a stereotype here and people read it, does not make it true. It is someone's perception only. Someone may agree with that perception, and someone may not.
I am not against the discussion, I was just agreeing with the poster above me that this discussion is all about stereotyping certain groups into certain categories:
Like: All gay men love Cher and all straight men don't, etc.
Just because things like that are posted does not make it true. All it says it that is one persons opinion of how people are.
Yas! Thanks Gary! |
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Nov 4, 2015 14:07:42 GMT -5
They are slotting people into categories based on their perception of what that category should be. It is total stereotyping. Counter examples to everything, though. All here are chart watchers with exposure to all sorts of music, so lots of counter examples among people who post here. If for instance, we say that all 18 year old gay males love Cher and Madonna, I will bet you will come up with an 18 year old gay male here who does not. Because we are all chart watchers with exposure to all sorts of music, if we say all 25 year old straight men hate Britney Spears, you will likely find someone here who is straight that likes Britney Spears.Fruitless discussion from that end because no one will agree with everyone. So true... My bro is gay and loves Hanson and Tokio Hotel / a bunch of indie artists... He'd have to be payed to go to say a Taylor Swift concert (and it would have to be a lot of $$$ lol) I'm straight and love Britney, Kelly, Katy, etc... Stereotyping is a dark road to go down... Ok, guys. So what is your point then? That most Cher fans are straight men? |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Nov 4, 2015 14:33:47 GMT -5
So true... My bro is gay and loves Hanson and Tokio Hotel / a bunch of indie artists... He'd have to be payed to go to say a Taylor Swift concert (and it would have to be a lot of $$$ lol) I'm straight and love Britney, Kelly, Katy, etc... Stereotyping is a dark road to go down... Ok, guys. So what is your point then? That most Cher fans are straight men? The point? If you are going to make "statements of fact" about specific groups of people based on your perception about how these people walk/talk/behave etc. or what their likes/dislikes should be that is fine. No dispute here. Call it what it is though..... stereotyping |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2015 15:05:41 GMT -5
honestly though - good debate guys. i see both sides and it was a good read.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Nov 4, 2015 15:10:32 GMT -5
So true... My bro is gay and loves Hanson and Tokio Hotel / a bunch of indie artists... He'd have to be payed to go to say a Taylor Swift concert (and it would have to be a lot of $$$ lol) I'm straight and love Britney, Kelly, Katy, etc... Stereotyping is a dark road to go down... Ok, guys. So what is your point then? That most Cher fans are straight men? I don't get what your point is. I'm sure most Cher fans are gay men but what's the point? What even is your argument anymore? I just went back to the idea of sexy outfits because I don't really see Britney Spears as a strong figure. Or Jennifer Lopez. Or Katy Perry, Christina Aguilera, Nicki Minaj, Mariah Carey or most of these pop divas. I do have seen though people say they dress like that because they are "confident" (I guess Demi Lovato has even made that point recently), so I thought maybe that's where you where going with the strong women argument. So, in your opinion, all these gay divas that dress in similar fashion, their clothes are not at all related to their fans' expectations? Do you think it's because of our sexist society and they dress like that to appeal to their straight fans? Or do you think their clothes bear no relation to fans' expectations and sexism? I meant to respond to this yesterday. I think clothing and fashion choices are a combination of a lot of factors. I'm just not sure what your point is. Are you pointing the blame at only gay fans of pop divas as to why they wear what they wear? Where are you going with this? Once again, what is your point? |
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ry4n
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Post by ry4n on Nov 4, 2015 15:24:43 GMT -5
Yeah, if Cher is perfectly happy performing for her fans (in whatever outfits she wants), does it really matter?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2015 16:25:08 GMT -5
This conversation feels more sexist than whatever the heck you guys actually think you're arguing about now.
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jayhawk1117
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Post by jayhawk1117 on Nov 4, 2015 16:33:19 GMT -5
SO in charts news.......Focus is almost out of the top 10, 2 days before a full week. Im guessing shes getting around The Way's debut.
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Nov 4, 2015 16:44:38 GMT -5
Ok, guys. So what is your point then? That most Cher fans are straight men? The point? If you are going to make "statements of fact" about specific groups of people based on your perception about how these people walk/talk/behave etc. or what their likes/dislikes should be that is fine. No dispute here. Call it what it is though..... stereotypingIsn't it called demographics? But I said Cher a lot of gay fans. You said that is a stereotype rather than a fact, so that means you disagree with the statement and therefore believe Cher does not have a lot of gay fans, right? |
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Nov 4, 2015 16:53:34 GMT -5
Ok, guys. So what is your point then? That most Cher fans are straight men? I don't get what your point is. I'm sure most Cher fans are gay men but what's the point? What even is your argument anymore? I know you have acknowledged that. I was just answering these other guys because it seems they have an issue with my statment that Cher has a lot of gay fans, called it a stereotype, so I'm asking if they honestly believe that's true. I just went back to the idea of sexy outfits because I don't really see Britney Spears as a strong figure. Or Jennifer Lopez. Or Katy Perry, Christina Aguilera, Nicki Minaj, Mariah Carey or most of these pop divas. I do have seen though people say they dress like that because they are "confident" (I guess Demi Lovato has even made that point recently), so I thought maybe that's where you where going with the strong women argument. So, in your opinion, all these gay divas that dress in similar fashion, their clothes are not at all related to their fans' expectations? Do you think it's because of our sexist society and they dress like that to appeal to their straight fans? Or do you think their clothes bear no relation to fans' expectations and sexism? I meant to respond to this yesterday. I think clothing and fashion choices are a combination of a lot of factors. I'm just not sure what your point is. Are you pointing the blame at only gay fans of pop divas as to why they wear what they wear? Where are you going with this? Once again, what is your point? Ok, the discussion originally began because someone said that Cher was expected to look young and sexy because that's what men expect of them in our sexist society, and so on. I was trying to say that for an act whose straight men fans don't seem to make up a large percentage of their public, it didn't make a lot of sense to blame straight men for their outfit choices. You could either say she dresses like that simply because she wants it or that it's somehow related to her hardcore fans expectations, but not to "sexist men" who don't really follow her. |
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velaxti
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Post by velaxti on Nov 4, 2015 16:54:47 GMT -5
I'm not going to read all this since I don't want to get too dragged in, but people need to realise:
1. Demographics are a REAL thing. You'd think on a RADIO forum of all places people would know that.
2. Generalisations do not mean "all", they mean "most" or "more than other demographics".
You get this all the time. Someone makes the blatantly true and factual generalisation that most One Direction fans are female, and someone replies "But I know a female who hates One Direction" or "I know a male that loves One Direction". ONE PERSON does not make a generalisation not true. Generalisations are referring to groups of sometimes billions of people, one person going against it changes nothing.
"Men are taller than women". A blatantly true and factual generalisation. You wouldn't reply to that "I know a woman who's over 6 feet" or "I know a man who's less than 5 feet", would you? It's a generalisation. It's about averages, or general trends. A generalisation does NOT mean "Every person from group A is more of something than every person from group B".
People need to understand the difference between words like "some, "most", "more" and "all", basically.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Nov 4, 2015 16:56:09 GMT -5
The point? If you are going to make "statements of fact" about specific groups of people based on your perception about how these people walk/talk/behave etc. or what their likes/dislikes should be that is fine. No dispute here. Call it what it is though..... stereotypingIsn't it called demographics? But I said Cher a lot of gay fans. You said that is a stereotype rather than a fact, so that means you disagree with the statement and therefore believe Cher does not have a lot of gay fans, right?
No it is called stereotyping. Making generalizations about groups of people based on your own perceptions of them.
Not going to agree or disagree with your statements about different groups of people, I am just disagreeing with you calling it "demographics".
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ry4n
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Post by ry4n on Nov 4, 2015 17:02:15 GMT -5
I'm not going to read all this since I don't want to get too dragged in, but people need to realise: 1. Demographics are a REAL thing. You'd think on a RADIO forum of all places people would know that. 2. Generalisations do not mean "all", they mean "most" or "more than other demographics". You get this all the time. Someone makes the blatantly true and factual generalisation that most One Direction fans are female, and someone replies "But I know a female who hates One Direction" or "I know a male that loves One Direction". ONE PERSON does not make a generalisation not true. Generalisations are referring to groups of sometimes billions of people, one person going against it changes nothing. "Men are taller than women". A blatantly true and factual generalisation. You wouldn't reply to that "I know a woman who's over 6 feet" or "I know a man who's less than 5 feet", would you? It's a generalisation. It's about averages, or general trends. A generalisation does NOT mean "Every person from group A is more of something than every person from group B". People need to understand the difference between words like "some, "most", "more" and "all", basically. There's a huge difference between making generalizations and assumptions based on observations you've made (ie Artist X has a bunch of gay fans) versus actual researched verified data (ie my friend is 5 inches taller than me). You can't prove that the former is actually true. You're simply saying "well it seems true to me, so therefore it must be fact". So unless we're going to survey all Cher fans on what their sexual orientation is.. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Nov 4, 2015 17:22:06 GMT -5
More trivia from Adele Top 10 digital sales weeks - 1. Hello - Adele 1,110,000 (11/14/15) 2. Right Round -Flo Rida 636,000 (2/28/09) 3. We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together - Taylor Swift 623,000 (9/1/12) 4. Tik Tok - Ke$ha 610,000 (9/9/10) 5. I Knew You Were Trouble - Taylor Swift 582,000 (1/12/13) 6. Grenade - Bruno Mars 559,000 (1/8/11) 7. Roar - Katy Perry 557,000 (8/13/13) 8. Shake It Off - Taylor Swift 544,000 (9/6/14) 9. Somebody That I Used To Know 542,000 (4/28/12) 10. Boyfriend - Justin Bieber 521,000 (4/14/12) Top 10 sales weeks - Soundscan era 1. Candle In The Wind - Elton John 3,446,000 (10/11/97) 2. Candle In The Wind - Elton John 1,212,000 (10/18/97) 3. Hello - Adele 1,110,000 (11/14/15) 4. candle In The Wind - Elton John 787,000 (10/25/97) 5. Right Round - Flo Rida 636,000 (2/28/09) 6. I Will Always Love You - Whitney Houston 632,000 (1/9/93) 7. We Are never Ever getting Back Together 623,000 (9/1/12) 8. Tik Tok - Ke$ha 610,000 (9/9/10) 9. I Knew You Were Trouble - Taylor Swift 582,000 (1/12/13) 10. I Will Always Love You - Whitney Houston 577,000 (1/2/93) Top Singles Sales Weeks - Soundscan Era 1. Candle In The Wind - Elton John 3,446,000 (10/11/97) 2. Candle In The Wind - Elton John 1,212,000 (10/18/97) 3. candle In The Wind - Elton John 787,000 (10/25/97) 4. I Will Always Love You - Whitney Houston 632,000 (1/9/93) 5. I Will Always Love You - Whitney Houston 577,000 (1/2/93) 6. Candle In The Wind - Elton John 554,000 (11/1/97) 7. I Will Always Love You - Whitney Houston 443,000 (12/26/92) 8. Candle In The Wind - Elton John 408,000 (11/8/97) 9. I Will Always Love You - Whitney Houston 399,0000 (12/19/92) 10. This Is The Night - Clay Aiken 393,000 (6/28/03) |
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Nov 4, 2015 17:24:22 GMT -5
I'm not going to read all this since I don't want to get too dragged in, but people need to realise: 1. Demographics are a REAL thing. You'd think on a RADIO forum of all places people would know that. 2. Generalisations do not mean "all", they mean "most" or "more than other demographics". You get this all the time. Someone makes the blatantly true and factual generalisation that most One Direction fans are female, and someone replies "But I know a female who hates One Direction" or "I know a male that loves One Direction". ONE PERSON does not make a generalisation not true. Generalisations are referring to groups of sometimes billions of people, one person going against it changes nothing. "Men are taller than women". A blatantly true and factual generalisation. You wouldn't reply to that "I know a woman who's over 6 feet" or "I know a man who's less than 5 feet", would you? It's a generalisation. It's about averages, or general trends. A generalisation does NOT mean "Every person from group A is more of something than every person from group B". People need to understand the difference between words like "some, "most", "more" and "all", basically. Exactly. |
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Nov 4, 2015 17:28:33 GMT -5
Isn't it called demographics? But I said Cher a lot of gay fans. You said that is a stereotype rather than a fact, so that means you disagree with the statement and therefore believe Cher does not have a lot of gay fans, right?
No it is called stereotyping. Making generalizations about groups of people based on your own perceptions of them.
Not going to agree or disagree with your statements about different groups of people, I am just disagreeing with you calling it "demographics".
I don't understand what you're doing. You either don't know Cher has a lot of gay fans or you're pretending to, just to be able to say I'm stereotyping. But why? Justin Bieber has a lot of female fans. Do I need to provide factual figures in order to say that? |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Nov 4, 2015 17:39:23 GMT -5
No it is called stereotyping. Making generalizations about groups of people based on your own perceptions of them.
Not going to agree or disagree with your statements about different groups of people, I am just disagreeing with you calling it "demographics".
I don't understand what you're doing. You either don't know Cher has a lot of gay fans or you're pretending to, just to be able to say I'm stereotyping. But why? It seems some people agree Cher has gay fans, even if you think that's a stereotype: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cher_as_a_gay_iconJustin Bieber has a lot of female fans. Do I need to provide factual figures in order to say that?
Not going to agree or disagree with your statements about Cher, Justin Bieber or anyone else. I get that you are uncomfortable with the label "stereotype". It appears to me that is what you are doing. If you want to slap a different label on it to make you feel more comfortable. That is fine.
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Post by balletgirlmom on Nov 4, 2015 17:44:31 GMT -5
When I posted on here all I was trying to say is it is harder for women in music as they get older. Yes I know it is harder for men too as they get older but the big difference is the older men are not expected to look great. I love older male artists like Paul M, Rod S, Mick Jagger, Stevie W, Bob Dylan and many more. When I see them in concert or in interviews they dress casually (jeans, t-shirts) and don't have to fuss over their looks. With women of the same age, they still have to look the part. I only used Tina Turner and Cher as examples since they are women who had big careers in the 1960's along with the above men. It is not that men care about Tina and Cher looking sexy or that gay men love Tina and Cher but that as women they still have to look good. It is sort of how society judges women.
I have seen comments on Hillary Clinton looking tired or that her make-up was flawed or her outfits were unflattering. I hardly ever hear comments like that aimed at the men running for President.
When I go out with my husband, he makes ZERO effort and throws on whatever he can find. Of course I have to make an effort to find the right dress, fix my hair, make-up, right heels and all the stuff women do. I'm just happy to see Adele doing so well with a career based on her talent and not looks. I hope younger female artists are able to get airplay beyond age 40 and can age without having to worry how they look.
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felipe
3x Platinum Member
Joined: January 2009
Posts: 3,058
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Post by felipe on Nov 4, 2015 17:47:08 GMT -5
I don't understand what you're doing. You either don't know Cher has a lot of gay fans or you're pretending to, just to be able to say I'm stereotyping. But why? It seems some people agree Cher has gay fans, even if you think that's a stereotype: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cher_as_a_gay_iconJustin Bieber has a lot of female fans. Do I need to provide factual figures in order to say that?
Not going to agree or disagree with your statements about Cher, Justin Bieber or anyone else. I get that you are uncomfortable with the label "stereotype". It appears to me that is what you are doing. If you want to slap a different label on it to make you feel more comfortable. That is fine.
Of course the label stereotype bothers me because it implies the statements are not true. And then you don't want to agree or disagree with the statements, because you want to pretend you don't know Cher has gay fans and Bieber has female fans. According to this article, Cher has gay friends: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cher_as_a_gay_icon Is the article based on stereotyping? |
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Gary
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 45,891
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Post by Gary on Nov 4, 2015 17:52:59 GMT -5
More trivia from Adele Top 10 digital sales weeks - 1. Hello - Adele 1,110,000 (11/14/15) 2. Right Round -Flo Rida 636,000 (2/28/09) 3. We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together - Taylor Swift 623,000 (9/1/12) 4. Tik Tok - Ke$ha 610,000 (9/9/10) 5. I Knew You Were Trouble - Taylor Swift 582,000 (1/12/13) 6. Grenade - Bruno Mars 559,000 (1/8/11) 7. Roar - Katy Perry 557,000 (8/13/13) 8. Shake It Off - Taylor Swift 544,000 (9/6/14) 9. Somebody That I Used To Know 542,000 (4/28/12) 10. Boyfriend - Justin Bieber 521,000 (4/14/12) Top 10 sales weeks - Soundscan era 1. Candle In The Wind - Elton John 3,446,000 (10/11/97) 2. Candle In The Wind - Elton John 1,212,000 (10/18/97) 3. Hello - Adele 1,110,000 (11/14/15) 4. candle In The Wind - Elton John 787,000 (10/25/97) 5. Right Round - Flo Rida 636,000 (2/28/09) 6. I Will Always Love You - Whitney Houston 632,000 (1/9/93) 7. We Are never Ever getting Back Together 623,000 (9/1/12) 8. Tik Tok - Ke$ha 610,000 (9/9/10) 9. I Knew You Were Trouble - Taylor Swift 582,000 (1/12/13) 10. I Will Always Love You - Whitney Houston 577,000 (1/2/93) Top Singles Sales Weeks - Soundscan Era 1. Candle In The Wind - Elton John 3,446,000 (10/11/97) 2. Candle In The Wind - Elton John 1,212,000 (10/18/97) 3. candle In The Wind - Elton John 787,000 (10/25/97) 4. I Will Always Love You - Whitney Houston 632,000 (1/9/93) 5. I Will Always Love You - Whitney Houston 577,000 (1/2/93) 6. Candle In The Wind - Elton John 554,000 (11/1/97) 7. I Will Always Love You - Whitney Houston 443,000 (12/26/92) 8. Candle In The Wind - Elton John 408,000 (11/8/97) 9. I Will Always Love You - Whitney Houston 399,0000 (12/19/92) 10. This Is The Night - Clay Aiken 393,000 (6/28/03) So as much as Adele has sold in week 1. It does not seem to hold a "Candle" to the Elton John song from 1997. But the fact that this is the first song since then to even come close to those numbers is pretty interesting.
First 5 weeks of Candle in The Wind was 6.4 million out of the eventual 11 million
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