jdanton2
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Post by jdanton2 on Dec 19, 2021 13:10:11 GMT -5
in recent years alot of 90's acts have had some success on the r&b/urban charts . Boyz II Men could try to release music for that format and maybe would be successful as well.
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Luckie Starchild
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Post by Luckie Starchild on Dec 19, 2021 14:06:48 GMT -5
Anyway, I think a lot of R&B acts that were popular once upon suffer from this. Look at R&B groups with longevity like The O'Jays and The Whispers. They are exciting live acts.
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degen
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Post by degen on Dec 19, 2021 14:39:52 GMT -5
I never really understood why we dissect Boys 2 Men’s downfall. Just like every group, pop or R&b, their mainstream success only lasted for a couple albums. This happened to TLC, Backstreet Boys, Nsync, the Spice Girls, etc. Really can anyone name me a band from the 90s that lasted more than 2-3 albums? It just doesn’t happen.
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Luckie Starchild
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Post by Luckie Starchild on Dec 19, 2021 15:23:07 GMT -5
I never really understood why we dissect Boys 2 Men’s downfall. Just like every group, pop or R&b, their mainstream success only lasted for a couple albums. This happened to TLC, Backstreet Boys, Nsync, the Spice Girls, etc. Really can anyone name me a band from the 90s that lasted more than 2-3 albums? It just doesn’t happen.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Dec 19, 2021 16:05:21 GMT -5
I never really understood why we dissect Boys 2 Men’s downfall. Just like every group, pop or R&b, their mainstream success only lasted for a couple albums. This happened to TLC, Backstreet Boys, Nsync, the Spice Girls, etc. Really can anyone name me a band from the 90s that lasted more than 2-3 albums? It just doesn’t happen. These acts had more of a fade out, though. As I said, BIIM went 9-12-2 in terms of sales. TLC went 4-12-6-1 so they were more scattered (and also not as sharp of a drop). BSB went 14-13-8-1 so yes a marked decline, but not quite as sharp in terms of a specific back-to-back. Spice Girls did really tank with their third album, but their second album had been a decline from their first so that's still a bit different. I'm curious who comes to mind for you. Well just looking at the 90s, in terms of the tragic falls there are more famous ones like Milli Vanilli, MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice, Lauryn Hill (though honestly you could also make a case for all of the members of the Fugees), etc. But then there are also ones that lasted shorter and aren't as glamorous like Vanessa Williams, Toni Braxton, Brandy, Monica, many of the boy bands not named Backstreet Boys, almost ALL of the girl groups that got any hits. I mean we could also lump it in with trends changing but some of these acts could've adapted to trends. Milli Vanilli is different for a very obvious reason, and Lauryn Hill never released a true follow-up album so she's an exception as well. MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice were one album wonders, so again not the same as BIIM with their two huge albums.
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Post by Private Dancer on Dec 19, 2021 20:56:55 GMT -5
Now that I think about it Boyz II Men didn't fade from pop culture. They have made their marks and they will always be apart of it. But they more so faded from the mainstream, which every artist does. That's just like saying Whitney or Madonna fading from pop culture. They won't ever fade from pop culture, but they are noonger mainstream.
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Post by Private Dancer on Dec 19, 2021 21:07:01 GMT -5
Another note, their songs are classics and staples in music.
End Of The Road-still sung at funerals, graduations, talent shows etc...
Motownphilly- known as one of the 1st songs to usher in the New Jack Swing era
Song for Mama- Used on Mother Day's
I'll Make Love To You- weddings, anniversaries, etc...
It's So Hard To Say Goodbye- known as one of the hardest songs to sing for males and still performed in talent shows today
On Bended Knee- Anniversaries, etc...
They are legends even though they had a short time in the mainstream. So they will always stay in pop culture, just won't be as huge as they once were.
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dremolus - solarpunk
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Dec 20, 2021 0:03:22 GMT -5
Well just looking at the 90s, in terms of the tragic falls there are more famous ones like Milli Vanilli, MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice, Lauryn Hill (though honestly you could also make a case for all of the members of the Fugees), etc. But then there are also ones that lasted shorter and aren't as glamorous like Vanessa Williams, Toni Braxton, Brandy, Monica, many of the boy bands not named Backstreet Boys, almost ALL of the girl groups that got any hits. I mean we could also lump it in with trends changing but some of these acts could've adapted to trends. Milli Vanilli is different for a very obvious reason, and Lauryn Hill never released a true follow-up album so she's an exception as well. MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice were one album wonders, so again not the same as BIIM with their two huge albums. I never said they were the same as B2M, just that there were more drastic fades and falls from the mainstream (and as for Lauryn, it's not just her not releasing another album)
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degen
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Post by degen on Dec 20, 2021 4:06:30 GMT -5
I never really understood why we dissect Boys 2 Men’s downfall. Just like every group, pop or R&b, their mainstream success only lasted for a couple albums. This happened to TLC, Backstreet Boys, Nsync, the Spice Girls, etc. Really can anyone name me a band from the 90s that lasted more than 2-3 albums? It just doesn’t happen. These acts had more of a fade out, though. As I said, BIIM went 9-12-2 in terms of sales. TLC went 4-12-6-1 so they were more scattered (and also not as sharp of a drop). BSB went 14-13-8-1 so yes a marked decline, but not quite as sharp in terms of a specific back-to-back. Spice Girls did really tank with their third album, but their second album had been a decline from their first so that's still a bit different. Well just looking at the 90s, in terms of the tragic falls there are more famous ones like Milli Vanilli, MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice, Lauryn Hill (though honestly you could also make a case for all of the members of the Fugees), etc. But then there are also ones that lasted shorter and aren't as glamorous like Vanessa Williams, Toni Braxton, Brandy, Monica, many of the boy bands not named Backstreet Boys, almost ALL of the girl groups that got any hits. I mean we could also lump it in with trends changing but some of these acts could've adapted to trends. Milli Vanilli is different for a very obvious reason, and Lauryn Hill never released a true follow-up album so she's an exception as well. MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice were one album wonders, so again not the same as BIIM with their two huge albums. So you agree? Highest peak of Commercial success always happens within the first 2 eras for most of bands/groups.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Dec 20, 2021 9:04:50 GMT -5
These acts had more of a fade out, though. As I said, BIIM went 9-12-2 in terms of sales. TLC went 4-12-6-1 so they were more scattered (and also not as sharp of a drop). BSB went 14-13-8-1 so yes a marked decline, but not quite as sharp in terms of a specific back-to-back. Spice Girls did really tank with their third album, but their second album had been a decline from their first so that's still a bit different. Milli Vanilli is different for a very obvious reason, and Lauryn Hill never released a true follow-up album so she's an exception as well. MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice were one album wonders, so again not the same as BIIM with their two huge albums. So you agree? Highest peak of Commercial success always happens within the first 2 eras for most of bands/groups. I don't agree, or more so I'd need to think about it. I also don't understand what that question has to do with the topic question, but whatever.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 12:54:26 GMT -5
I only like their first album, that new jack swing one. I think they went into slippery road trying to please public, of course they were unbelievably successful, but after End Of the Road their music was unexciting MOR ballads, which cannot carry for long. They were simply turned into money making machine. And also as they did not write their hits, it all depended too much on others and giving just vocals to their art is not something long lasting. Anyway, Boyz 2 Men surpassed their potential of success enormously, so the fall was very quick as well. I would not compare them to The Whispers or O´Jays, because these groups make their own music and are on different level than Boys 2 Men. By the way, their name even limited their period of success...
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degen
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Post by degen on Dec 20, 2021 18:36:17 GMT -5
So you agree? Highest peak of Commercial success always happens within the first 2 eras for most of bands/groups. I don't agree, or more so I'd need to think about it. I also don't understand what that question has to do with the topic question, but whatever. I’m not quite sure. I mean Britney went 14-10-4 in less of a time period than Boys 2 Men’s drop. Yes their drop was drastic, but at least not as drastic as Alanis’ drop. I think the idea of a major star/group having more than 2 huge albums was getting more rare by that point. They had a good 5 year stretch and knew how to milk their momentum. They never really took a break during this time and just kept pumping out the hits. They also had a lot of side projects. Whereas TLC and other groups took longer breaks. They have some major stats for what they accomplished with those 2 eras. So to me I’d consider them one of the biggest R&B groups of all time. I agree though, they have been mismanaged since that 3rd album. They could’ve started doing Vegas shows and other things legacy acts do long before they actually did. Their legacy is still intact, but their money not so much.
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bat1990
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Post by bat1990 on Dec 20, 2021 20:38:47 GMT -5
I never really understood why we dissect Boys 2 Men’s downfall. Just like every group, pop or R&b, their mainstream success only lasted for a couple albums. This happened to TLC, Backstreet Boys, Nsync, the Spice Girls, etc. Really can anyone name me a band from the 90s that lasted more than 2-3 albums? It just doesn’t happen. OMG H looks so hot in that thumbnail!!
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Dec 20, 2021 20:46:59 GMT -5
I’m not quite sure. I mean Britney went 14-10-4 in less of a time period than Boys 2 Men’s drop. 10 to 4 (and it should be 5x platinum) isn't as big of a drop as 12 to 2, though. No, but Alanis only had 1 huge album, and her follow-up went in a different direction than JLP so that drop makes sense to me. Does she have the biggest single drop from one album to the next?
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Luckie Starchild
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Post by Luckie Starchild on Dec 20, 2021 22:32:22 GMT -5
OMG H looks so hot in that thumbnail!! FYI, they all go to the same dermatologist... Dr. Mohan in Marylebone, I believe.
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Joe1240
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Post by Joe1240 on Dec 20, 2021 22:43:33 GMT -5
I’m not quite sure. I mean Britney went 14-10-4 in less of a time period than Boys 2 Men’s drop. 10 to 4 (and it should be 5x platinum) isn't as big of a drop as 12 to 2, though. No, but Alanis only had 1 huge album, and her follow-up went in a different direction than JLP so that drop makes sense to me. Does she have the biggest single drop from one album to the next? I would say Hootie & The Blowfish had a huge drop, Their 2nd album produced less hits than their debut and they shortly dropped off after.
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degen
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Post by degen on Dec 21, 2021 19:04:06 GMT -5
I’m not quite sure. I mean Britney went 14-10-4 in less of a time period than Boys 2 Men’s drop. 10 to 4 (and it should be 5x platinum) isn't as big of a drop as 12 to 2, though. No, but Alanis only had 1 huge album, and her follow-up went in a different direction than JLP so that drop makes sense to me. Does she have the biggest single drop from one album to the next? My point was Britney’s drop happened over a 2-3 year period, whereas Boys II Men were still considered pretty big up until 1997. They were everywhere from 1991-1997. So a sharp decline was bound to come. Why their legacy isn’t where it should be now isn’t because of what more they could’ve accomplished, but more so not using what they already had, and building a consistent brand even after the hits stopped coming.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Dec 21, 2021 19:30:41 GMT -5
10 to 4 (and it should be 5x platinum) isn't as big of a drop as 12 to 2, though. No, but Alanis only had 1 huge album, and her follow-up went in a different direction than JLP so that drop makes sense to me. Does she have the biggest single drop from one album to the next? I would say Hootie & The Blowfish had a huge drop, Their 2nd album produced less hits than their debut and they shortly dropped off after. Yup. They went from 21x platinum (!!) to 3x platinum, so that's probably the single biggest decline from one album to the next. BIIM had two huge albums, though, with their second doing even better than the first, so they had avoided the sophomore jinx that Alanis, Hootie, and others had. 10 to 4 (and it should be 5x platinum) isn't as big of a drop as 12 to 2, though. No, but Alanis only had 1 huge album, and her follow-up went in a different direction than JLP so that drop makes sense to me. Does she have the biggest single drop from one album to the next? My point was Britney’s drop happened over a 2-3 year period, whereas Boys II Men were still considered pretty big up until 1997. They were everywhere from 1991-1997. So a sharp decline was bound to come. Why their legacy isn’t where it should be now isn’t because of what more they could’ve accomplished, but more so not using what they already had, and building a consistent brand even after the hits stopped coming. Britney was still considered big and was everywhere during the time you are saying she dropped; she had much much of a presence in 2001 than BIIM had in 1997. But again, a drop from 10x platinum to 4x platinum is not as steep as the BIIM drop either (and considering Britney's third album hasn't been certified since the year it came out, I'm sure it should be 5-6x platinum.
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degen
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Post by degen on Dec 22, 2021 2:57:56 GMT -5
I would say Hootie & The Blowfish had a huge drop, Their 2nd album produced less hits than their debut and they shortly dropped off after. Yup. They went from 21x platinum (!!) to 3x platinum, so that's probably the single biggest decline from one album to the next. BIIM had two huge albums, though, with their second doing even better than the first, so they had avoided the sophomore jinx that Alanis, Hootie, and others had. My point was Britney’s drop happened over a 2-3 year period, whereas Boys II Men were still considered pretty big up until 1997. They were everywhere from 1991-1997. So a sharp decline was bound to come. Why their legacy isn’t where it should be now isn’t because of what more they could’ve accomplished, but more so not using what they already had, and building a consistent brand even after the hits stopped coming. Britney was still considered big and was everywhere during the time you are saying she dropped; she had much much of a presence in 2001 than BIIM had in 1997. But again, a drop from 10x platinum to 4x platinum is not as steep as the BIIM drop either (and considering Britney's third album hasn't been certified since the year it came out, I'm sure it should be 5-6x platinum. I don’t recall Britney spending 45 + weeks at #1 on the Hot 100 though. And their first two albums pretty much sold as much as hers. So I feel like their 3rd album success is on par with a lot of big acts. They still had a #1 hit in 1997 and a follow up top ten, so to me that’s still commercial success.
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bjordan
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Post by bjordan on Dec 22, 2021 15:25:31 GMT -5
I do agree that they had trouble adapting to the changing trends back in the 2000’s. Think about, a lot of the R&B records began to be more hip hop oriented. Boyz II Men’s time has passed IMO. They had great crossover hits back in the 90’s but that’s over. Sucks but that’s the way it goes.
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degen
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Post by degen on Dec 22, 2021 17:02:19 GMT -5
I do agree that they had trouble adapting to the changing trends back in the 2000’s. Think about, a lot of the R&B records began to be more hip hop oriented. Boyz II Men’s time has passed IMO. They had great crossover hits back in the 90’s but that’s over. Sucks but that’s the way it goes. This is true: I feel like their style of big R&B ballads hit a brick wall in the late 90s. The only R&B hits I can recall from late 90s/early 00s are mid-uptempo ones. Usher/R.Kelly may be the exception but even their slow-mid tempo songs weren’t really ballads. I can recall “Unbreak My Heart” and “I Believe I Can Fly” in 1997/1998 being the last big R&B ballad hits of the decade. Boys II Men never bothered exploring outside of the R&B ballad/doo-wop style. By the time their 3rd album dropped they were sticking to a formula and style that was on its way out. Ironically “MotownPhilly,” was their first and only uptempo that became a hit. But they never bothered releasing anymore songs in that vein. Once “End of the Road” became an unexpected monster hit, this was the formula they stuck to very stubbornly.
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Luckie Starchild
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Post by Luckie Starchild on Dec 22, 2021 23:41:44 GMT -5
For them, I think it was a bit hard for the public to accept the optics of seeing a quartet to suddenly seeing a trio. Patti LaBelle and the Bluebelles were able to successfully transition from being a quartet when Cindy left but they totally reinvented themselves to become Labelle.
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elementd5
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Post by elementd5 on Dec 23, 2021 2:09:21 GMT -5
I do agree that they had trouble adapting to the changing trends back in the 2000’s. Think about, a lot of the R&B records began to be more hip hop oriented. Boyz II Men’s time has passed IMO. They had great crossover hits back in the 90’s but that’s over. Sucks but that’s the way it goes. This is true: I feel like their style of big R&B ballads hit a brick wall in the late 90s. The only R&B hits I can recall from late 90s/early 00s are mid-uptempo ones. Usher/R.Kelly may be the exception but even their slow-mid tempo songs weren’t really ballads. I can recall “Unbreak My Heart” and “I Believe I Can Fly” in 1997/1998 being the last big R&B ballad hits of the decade. Boys II Men never bothered exploring outside of the R&B ballad/doo-wop style. By the time their 3rd album dropped they were sticking to a formula and style that was on its way out. Ironically “MotownPhilly,” was their first and only uptempo that became a hit. But they never bothered releasing anymore songs in that vein. Once “End of the Road” became an unexpected monster hit, this was the formula they stuck to very stubbornly. A lot of the solo male R&B #1s of 1999-2001 are ballads? Maxwell, Eric Benet, Next/RL, Avant, Jagged Edge, Case, Ginuwine, Usher, Carl Thomas, Sisqo, 112. Seems like they could of made the transition for a couple more years, but maybe they were viewed as too “ol skool” and not “hip” by then.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2021 20:37:51 GMT -5
OMG H looks so hot in that thumbnail!! FYI, they all go to the same dermatologist... Dr. Mohan in Marylebone, I believe. 😂🙌🏾
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Jay D83
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Post by Jay D83 on Dec 24, 2021 9:39:42 GMT -5
For them, I think it was a bit hard for the public to accept the optics of seeing a quartet to suddenly seeing a trio. Patti LaBelle and the Bluebelles were able to successfully transition from being a quartet when Cindy left but they totally reinvented themselves to become Labelle. Michael McCary didn't leave until 2003 though.
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Luckie Starchild
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Post by Luckie Starchild on Dec 24, 2021 13:26:02 GMT -5
For them, I think it was a bit hard for the public to accept the optics of seeing a quartet to suddenly seeing a trio. Patti LaBelle and the Bluebelles were able to successfully transition from being a quartet when Cindy left but they totally reinvented themselves to become Labelle. Michael McCary didn't leave until 2003 though. I'm thinking more about their appeal and success as a live act today (and not their past track record as a singles artist). Whereas Alanis, New Edition, Steps, and Hootie still play arenas, Boyz II Men play casinos and smaller venues.
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mkarns
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Post by mkarns on Dec 24, 2021 14:05:41 GMT -5
Michael McCary didn't leave until 2003 though. I'm thinking more about their appeal and success as a live act today (and not their past track record as a singles artist). Whereas Alanis, New Edition, Steps, and Hootie still play arenas, Boyz II Men play casinos and smaller venues. In terms of live performance and stage presence, B2M may vary up their setlist at times, with more dancing and visual presentation. But most people probably want to hear the hits, which were mostly ballads which are still pleasant to hear on the radio at times but don't necessarily make for a particularly exciting live show.
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Jay D83
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Post by Jay D83 on Dec 24, 2021 14:50:46 GMT -5
Michael McCary didn't leave until 2003 though. I'm thinking more about their appeal and success as a live act today (and not their past track record as a singles artist). Whereas Alanis, New Edition, Steps, and Hootie still play arenas, Boyz II Men play casinos and smaller venues. Oh I absolutely understand now. They are just like En Vogue that way.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2021 20:59:29 GMT -5
I'll forever be grateful for the many great singles they have given me. I was never big into their albums but they had classic songs including one of my favorite Christmas songs!!
Their decline is predictable. They relied on their one signature sound and look and never tried to switch it up or adapt. They havent done a good job of promoting themselves or their catalog and so the decline was partly their own damn fault but also due to modern changes they never really understood.
Besides even if they had done everything right on their end it wouldn't have mattered. Groups were on the out anyways and unless you had breakout solo star emerge your group would have faded out of society minds
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2022 23:46:38 GMT -5
Their classics are still widely known. I looovee Boyz 2 Men, I’ve actually seen them live twice over the past decade. Crazy how the whole crowd sings every riff and run from the big ballads.
Tbh they deserve more — they should sing the national anthem at the Super Bowl one year. They can still sing their asses off and their harmonies are always on point.
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