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Post by .It'sGriffin on Sept 11, 2017 7:25:03 GMT -5
I was wondering... I feel like the "pop" scene looks somewhat boring nowadays. Not that long ago we had MJ, Madonna, Janet, and then Britney, NSYNC and so on. Every awards show was promising and exciting as the "superstars" would be sure to put out great performances. Now what do we have to look forward to? Selena Gomez? Demi Lovato? Justin Bieber? I don't mean to sound like one of those old people who complain about the younger generation, but I just don't think Selena Gomes compares to the greats before her at all. I feel like the closest we came to exciting superstars was Rihanna and Kanye, and even that seems like a decade ago since now they're more interested in being "artistic." What are you guys' takes on this? I think that the opposite is true. Although the best stars aren't as great, the average artist is better and the worst are miles ahead. We have Bruno Mars, The Weeknd, Twenty One Pilots, Kendrick Lamar, Logic, Ariana Grande, Sam Smith, Lorde, Ed Sheeran... |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Sept 11, 2017 7:40:55 GMT -5
I was wondering... I feel like the "pop" scene looks somewhat boring nowadays. Not that long ago we had MJ, Madonna, Janet, and then Britney, NSYNC and so on. Every awards show was promising and exciting as the "superstars" would be sure to put out great performances. Now what do we have to look forward to? Selena Gomez? Demi Lovato? Justin Bieber? I don't mean to sound like one of those old people who complain about the younger generation, but I just don't think Selena Gomes compares to the greats before her at all. I feel like the closest we came to exciting superstars was Rihanna and Kanye, and even that seems like a decade ago since now they're more interested in being "artistic." What are you guys' takes on this? I think that the opposite is true. Although the best stars aren't as great, the average artist is better and the worst are miles ahead. We have Bruno Mars, The Weeknd, Twenty One Pilots, Kendrick Lamar, Logic, Ariana Grande, Sam Smith, Lorde, Ed Sheeran... Well, you are going beyond "pop" there. If we encompass popularity in general, the late 90s had Britney, Christina, the boy bands, etc but also Jay-Z, Radiohead, Shania Twain, Usher, Third Eye Blind, Sheryl Crow, Brandy, Spice Girls, Sarah McLachlan, TLC, Sugar Ray, Smashing Pumpkins, Jewel, Goo Goo Dolls, Dixie Chicks etc along with veterans like Madonna, Janet, Mariah, and Whitney. I'd put nearly all of them above their current counterparts. Even the next level of singers from them - Deborah Cox, for instance - could blow current stars out of the box. But I think the intent of the original post was to say in the 80s and 90s the big artists released 'event' records and had 'event' performances. |
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Sept 11, 2017 7:46:58 GMT -5
I think that the opposite is true. Although the best stars aren't as great, the average artist is better and the worst are miles ahead. We have Bruno Mars, The Weeknd, Twenty One Pilots, Kendrick Lamar, Logic, Ariana Grande, Sam Smith, Lorde, Ed Sheeran... While I do agree we have many good "average" stars, such as Ed Sheeran or Sam Smith, I feel like none of them is truly exciting. It's like we don't have those huge stars anymore. When I was a kid I remember people got crazy excited for a new music video or a performance at the VMAs. Now who's ever excited for a new Bruno Mars video? It's just... there. |
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Glove Slap
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Post by Glove Slap on Sept 11, 2017 7:50:24 GMT -5
I was wondering... I feel like the "pop" scene looks somewhat boring nowadays. Not that long ago we had MJ, Madonna, Janet, and then Britney, NSYNC and so on. Every awards show was promising and exciting as the "superstars" would be sure to put out great performances. Now what do we have to look forward to? Selena Gomez? Demi Lovato? Justin Bieber? I don't mean to sound like one of those old people who complain about the younger generation, but I just don't think Selena Gomes compares to the greats before her at all. I feel like the closest we came to exciting superstars was Rihanna and Kanye, and even that seems like a decade ago since now they're more interested in being "artistic." What are you guys' takes on this? We're coming up on 20 years on the period you're mentioning fairly soonish, that's not what I'd consider "not that long ago". |
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Post by Enigma. on Sept 11, 2017 7:56:18 GMT -5
"Not that long ago we had MJ, Madonna, Janet, and then Britney, NSYNC and so on." Uhm 20 yrs "not that long ago"?
EDIT: So basically what Glove Slap said lol
Anyway I don't know what you're after by putting NSYNC and MJ in the same sentence but:
Taylor Swift
Lady Gaga
Rihanna
Beyoncé
Bruno Mars
Kanye West
Justin Bieber
Adele
Pink
I've seen most of them live and they're brilliant, even Bieber who like Britney lip syncs the whole show through but with style.
The artistic legacy comes with years, it doesn't happen overnight. Selena Gomez and especially Ariana Grande are getting there imo.
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Sept 11, 2017 8:15:03 GMT -5
I was wondering... I feel like the "pop" scene looks somewhat boring nowadays. Not that long ago we had MJ, Madonna, Janet, and then Britney, NSYNC and so on. Every awards show was promising and exciting as the "superstars" would be sure to put out great performances. Now what do we have to look forward to? Selena Gomez? Demi Lovato? Justin Bieber? I don't mean to sound like one of those old people who complain about the younger generation, but I just don't think Selena Gomes compares to the greats before her at all. I feel like the closest we came to exciting superstars was Rihanna and Kanye, and even that seems like a decade ago since now they're more interested in being "artistic." What are you guys' takes on this? We're coming up on 20 years on the period you're mentioning fairly soonish, that's not what I'd consider "not that long ago". Many of those I mentioned were still relevant and putting out exciting music and performances at the beginning of the 2000s, so I don't think it was that long ago. It's not like I'm comparing current artists to Elvis or The Beatles. But even if I remove "not that long ago" from the post, the point is still the same. |
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Post by Au$tin on Sept 11, 2017 8:22:28 GMT -5
The beginning of the 2000s is still 17 years ago.  |
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Post by felipe on Sept 11, 2017 8:22:59 GMT -5
Selena Gomez and especially Ariana Grande are getting there imo. Definitely not overnight, but hasn't Selena been making music for 8 years now? |
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Post by felipe on Sept 11, 2017 8:24:28 GMT -5
The beginning of the 2000s is still 17 years ago.  Ok, but how does that change my point about current pop stars? |
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Post by jenglisbe on Sept 11, 2017 8:37:42 GMT -5
"Not that long ago" is relative; to a current teen the 90s was awhile ago, but to a 45 year-old, it doesn't seem like that long ago. Why do we always get into these exchanges over a term like "not that long ago" instead of discussing the actual issue in question (i.e. current stars versus ones from the late 90s or whenever)?
How I look at it 90s versus 10s:
Michael Jackson is better than Justin Bieber
Mariah Carey is better than Ariana Grande
Madonna is better than Lady Gaga
Celine is on par with Adele (I prefer Adele but am speaking generally)
Third Eye Blind are on par with Twenty One Pilots (though TOP still have time to surpass)
Kendrick Lamar is on par with Nas...but the 90s also had 2Pac, Biggie, Jay-Z, etc
Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera are better than Selena Gomez
N Sync/Backstreet Boys are on par or better than One Direction
Usher is on par with Bruno Mars (though a lot of Usher extended into the 00s)
Shania Twain, Garth Brooks, and Faith Hill are better than Sam Hunt and Florida Georgia Line (i.e. country crossover)
Sheryl Crow is on par with Pink, but the 90s also had Alanis Morissette, Sarah McLachlan, and Melissa Etheridge
Janet Jackson is better than Rihanna (and the 90s also had Brandy, Monica, etc)
En Vogue is better than Fifth Harmony
Ricky Martin, Enrique Iglesias, and Marc Anthony are better than Luis Fonsi
I don't know who to parallel to Whitney
Current music doesn't even have acts to compare to Radiohead, Smashing Pumpkins, etc
Current music doesn't also doesn't have acts to compare to Boyz II Men, Jodeci, etc
For the 10s, Taylor Swift would be a plus and perhaps has no 90s parallel.
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Post by Enigma. on Sept 11, 2017 8:40:05 GMT -5
That Beyoncé shade lol
"If you say so" covers most of the post (to compare MJ to Bieber is ridiculous for both)
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Post by jenglisbe on Sept 11, 2017 8:41:43 GMT -5
If that's directed at me, maybe consider Beyonce wasn't a solo artist in the 90s and more so doesn't fit into either decade in question (as in, I can't identify her as a 10s artist either, even if she's released music). |
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Post by Enigma. on Sept 11, 2017 8:43:39 GMT -5
If that's directed at me, maybe consider Beyonce wasn't a solo artist in the 90s and more so doesn't fit into either decade in question (as in, I can't identify her as a 10s artist either, even if she's released music). Most of the big stars of this current decade are still to evolve. I'd say Beyoncé has reached her status on this decade but of course it's somewhat debatable. |
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Post by jenglisbe on Sept 11, 2017 8:44:50 GMT -5
That Beyoncé shade lol "If you say so" covers most of the post (to compare MJ to Bieber is ridiculous for both) The point of a discussion board is to have discussion, so instead of a blanket comment, why not address specifics? The one you mention - MJ and Bieber - is ridiculous to you; but why? The biggest male pop star of the late 80s and 90s was MJ. The current biggest male pop star is Bieber. I suppose you could swap out Bieber for Bruno. More so I'd say Michael and Usher are a parallel to Bruno and Bieber. Either way, to me the former trumps. |
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Post by jenglisbe on Sept 11, 2017 8:49:24 GMT -5
If that's directed at me, maybe consider Beyonce wasn't a solo artist in the 90s and more so doesn't fit into either decade in question (as in, I can't identify her as a 10s artist either, even if she's released music). Most of the big stars of this current decade are still to evolve. I'd say Beyoncé has reached her status on this decade but of course it's somewhat debatable. When you say "most," who do you mean? Short of miraculous comebacks, artists like Lady Gaga and Kanye West have lost general commercial relevance. Artists like Selena Gomez and Ariana Grande still produce hits but don't seem to be taking their music to another level a la Ray of Light, Butterfly, etc. Beyonce reached a higher level artistically in the 10s, but in terms of relevance (i.e. hits) she's identified with the 00s. Every single one of her biggest hits was released in the 00s. My post still didn't even mention acts like Destiny's Child and Dixie Chicks who started in the 90s, but had even more success in the 00s. I also forgot R Kelly, who had a ton of hits in the 90s. And Toni Braxton. |
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Post by felipe on Sept 11, 2017 9:03:21 GMT -5
If that's directed at me, maybe consider Beyonce wasn't a solo artist in the 90s and more so doesn't fit into either decade in question (as in, I can't identify her as a 10s artist either, even if she's released music). Most of the big stars of this current decade are still to evolve. I'd say Beyoncé has reached her status on this decade but of course it's somewhat debatable. Most are still evolving? I'd say most of the names being thrown around here as examples of current music have already peaked actually. Kanye, Gaga, Pink have all peaked already. Also has Eminem. Though somewhat debatable I'd say Rihanna, Bruno and Katy have also peaked. |
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Post by Enigma. on Sept 11, 2017 9:04:10 GMT -5
How would you rank the 90s compared to 80s, to 70s, to 60s? The Beatles were huge, did 90s have an equivalent to them? Bee Gees were huge, what was the Bee Gees of the 90s? I am myself a 90s kid (born in 1983) but this way of thinking seems weird to me.
I am not saying you're wrong, those artists you mention are amazing. I just find that kind of comparison quite odd. And in the 90s there were several Mases to one 2Pac, just like now there are many Quavos to one Kendrick Lamar.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Sept 11, 2017 9:10:01 GMT -5
How would you rank the 90s compared to 80s, to 70s, to 60s? The Beatles were huge, did 90s have an equivalent to them? Bee Gees were huge, what was the Bee Gees of the 90s? I am myself a 90s kid (born in 1983) but this way of thinking seems weird to me. I am not saying you're wrong, those artists you mention are amazing. I just find that kind of comparison quite odd. And in the 90s there were several Mases to one 2Pac, just like now there are many Quavos to one Kendrick Lamar. I don't see where picking out one act from a decade (i.e. The Beatles) means much in and of itself. It would need to be more comprehensive. I don't mind doing that, but this thread is probably not the place for it. It's fine these comparisons are weird to you, but other people like them. If you find it pointless, then just don't participate. |
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Post by felipe on Sept 11, 2017 9:28:36 GMT -5
How would you rank the 90s compared to 80s, to 70s, to 60s? The Beatles were huge, did 90s have an equivalent to them? Bee Gees were huge, what was the Bee Gees of the 90s? I am myself a 90s kid (born in 1983) but this way of thinking seems weird to me. I am not saying you're wrong, those artists you mention are amazing. I just find that kind of comparison quite odd. And in the 90s there were several Mases to one 2Pac, just like now there are many Quavos to one Kendrick Lamar. I'm a 90s kid also so it's hard for me to compare to previous decades. Music seemed to have changed way more from the 60s to the 90s than from the 90s to the 2010s. Still, You could say the 90s had no Beatles but it had Michael, Whitney and Madonna. Nowadays we have no Beatles or Michael or Whitney, but we have... Taylor Swift and Bruno Mars? |
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Post by chartfreak on Sept 11, 2017 9:56:21 GMT -5
I think that the opposite is true. Although the best stars aren't as great, the average artist is better and the worst are miles ahead. We have Bruno Mars, The Weeknd, Twenty One Pilots, Kendrick Lamar, Logic, Ariana Grande, Sam Smith, Lorde, Ed Sheeran... While I do agree we have many good "average" stars, such as Ed Sheeran or Sam Smith, I feel like none of them is truly exciting. It's like we don't have those huge stars anymore. When I was a kid I remember people got crazy excited for a new music video or a performance at the VMAs. Now who's ever excited for a new Bruno Mars video? It's just... there. Have said this before, but it's because of the way we consume music now. Some of us writing here had to drive to record stores to buy new music and run home from school to watch a video premiere. Now with it being readily available on our phones, etc makes the excitement factor less. |
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Post by Gary on Sept 11, 2017 10:19:12 GMT -5
We still have "event" albums are artists.
Adele has won artist of the year three times this decade, with two "event" albums.
A Taylor Swift release is clearly still an "event" that gets people excited.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 10:32:50 GMT -5
I think people that grew up in the 90s will like the music then more than today because that's just how it is, just like teens now will prefer todays music over the songs in the 30s etc
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Post by jebsib on Sept 11, 2017 11:05:20 GMT -5
I think you are taping into something.
Every five to seven years after a pop explosion there is a hangover period - a doldrum downturn - where the creative excitement is over for a few years.
These periods used to be relegated to the first few years of each decade, and get stirred up when the decade finds its identity & then their superstars and then the corresponding image / sounds / songs.
We are now in a heavy hangover phase from the Gaga / Katy / BEP / EDM era. Justin B's recent cooling off suggests that the GP is looking for something new. Historically (with the exception of the early 80s (post disco implosion)) the void is filled heavily with current r&b. This is starting to happen this year (thanks to streaming). So I expect a few more years until 'Pop" music is seen as new, and fresh again.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Sept 11, 2017 11:09:55 GMT -5
^And there's a glut of pop females right now.
Katy Perry, Lorde, Lana Del Ray disappointed.
We have new albums coming from Fergie, Miley Cyrus, Pink, Taylor Swift. Kelly Clarkson, Selena Gomez and Demi Lovato.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Sept 11, 2017 11:23:15 GMT -5
Shush, Lana and Lorde didn't disappoint!!
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Sept 11, 2017 11:26:09 GMT -5
Just like any other 4th quarter only a few of those will prevail.
The streaming trend should continue and make non-pop genres continue to thrive
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Sept 11, 2017 12:00:30 GMT -5
Shush, Lana and Lorde didn't disappoint!! Critically, yes. Sales wise, flops. |
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Post by Enigma. on Sept 11, 2017 12:03:48 GMT -5
Shush, Lana and Lorde didn't disappoint!! Critically, yes. Sales wise, flops. Lorde, perhaps a bit but Lana def no! She was coming from a #2 album which has so far sold under 300k and reached #1 with 107k, only 8k short of its predecessor. Did you really expect her to do better? |
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Post by deepston on Sept 11, 2017 12:08:38 GMT -5
Shush, Lana and Lorde didn't disappoint!! Critically, yes. Sales wise, flops. Neither of them flopped sales-wise. Their albums just aren't mainstream... Tell me 1 indie pop/rock artist that sells more than Lana. |
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Post by Au$tin on Sept 11, 2017 12:20:26 GMT -5
The beginning of the 2000s is still 17 years ago. Ok, but how does that change my point about current pop stars? It changes quite a bit, actually, because if you think about the timeline, you'll get your answer. The Internet. Social media. The digital age. It's hard to have any sort of "event" with everything available at your fingertips whenever you want. "Why would millions gather around to watch the latest VMA performance when you can just look it up later?" says the consumer. "Why put that much effort into it if not as many people are going to see it immensely?" asks the people with the money. But I would argue that we have plenty of artists giving big hyped events. Taylor Swift, Adele, Justin Bieber, Ariana Grande, Drake, and Rihanna all immediately come to mind. Whenever they do anything, people follow it. Another problem is that events are now long and drawn out, but is that really a problem? A fan can follow an entire process of the creation of a song or album now. Look at Kelly Clarkson. Her most recent single actually had quite a lot of backstory. We've been seeing videos and pictures of her in the studio for months, so the grand day of release doesn't feel quite as eventful because we've been expecting it. However, as a fan, it's amazing to see all of these things that we used to be in the dark for. |
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