Billboard Hot 100: 9/30/2017

[jenglisbe]

Sept 11, 2017 12:20:26 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Sept 11, 2017 8:24:28 GMT -5 felipe said:

Ok, but how does that change my point about current pop stars?

It changes quite a bit, actually, because if you think about the timeline, you'll get your answer. The Internet. Social media. The digital age.

It's hard to have any sort of "event" with everything available at your fingertips whenever you want. "Why would millions gather around to watch the latest VMA performance when you can just look it up later?" says the consumer. "Why put that much effort into it if not as many people are going to see it immensely?" asks the people with the money.

But I would argue that we have plenty of artists giving big hyped events. Taylor Swift, Adele, Justin Bieber, Ariana Grande, Drake, and Rihanna all immediately come to mind. Whenever they do anything, people follow it.

Another problem is that events are now long and drawn out, but is that really a problem? A fan can follow an entire process of the creation of a song or album now. Look at Kelly Clarkson. Her most recent single actually had quite a lot of backstory. We've been seeing videos and pictures of her in the studio for months, so the grand day of release doesn't feel quite as eventful because we've been expecting it. However, as a fan, it's amazing to see all of these things that we used to be in the dark for.

So do you think just as many people are hyped about seeing Biever, Grande, etc as were hyped to see Michael, Madonna, etc?

[areyoureadytojump]

Sept 11, 2017 12:03:48 GMT -5 Enigma. said:

Sept 11, 2017 12:00:30 GMT -5 areyoureadytojump said:

Critically, yes.

Sales wise, flops.

Lorde, perhaps a bit but Lana def no! She was coming from a #2 album which has so far sold under 300k and reached #1 with 107k, only 8k short of its predecessor. Did you really expect her to do better?

Yes, you are correct about Lana! Thanks. I keep thinking about her album which has been on the Billboard 200 for 5 years.

[Enigma.]

Sept 11, 2017 12:38:37 GMT -5 areyoureadytojump said:

Sept 11, 2017 12:03:48 GMT -5 Enigma. said:

Lorde, perhaps a bit but Lana def no! She was coming from a #2 album which has so far sold under 300k and reached #1 with 107k, only 8k short of its predecessor. Did you really expect her to do better?

Yes, you are correct about Lana! Thanks. I keep thinking about her album which has been on the Billboard 200 for 5 years.

BTD is always going to be her best seller, same with Imagine Dragons' Night Visions which acts similarly. They're not going to top them sales-wise.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Sept 11, 2017 9:56:21 GMT -5 chartfreak said:

Sept 11, 2017 7:46:58 GMT -5 felipe said:

While I do agree we have many good "average" stars, such as Ed Sheeran or Sam Smith, I feel like none of them is truly exciting. It's like we don't have those huge stars anymore. When I was a kid I remember people got crazy excited for a new music video or a performance at the VMAs. Now who's ever excited for a new Bruno Mars video? It's just... there.

Have said this before, but it's because of the way we consume music now.

Some of us writing here had to drive to record stores to buy new music and run home from school to watch a video premiere. Now with it being readily available on our phones, etc makes the excitement factor less.

Will agree with this. Music used to be an experience. You physically had to put effort into buying a cd or a record by going to a store and you had to wait for that. Waiting for something you want heightens excitement for it. And there's a psychological term that I can't recall at the moment for people who justify putting time and effort into something by liking it more. Put in this context, waiting for a new Michael Jackson album and going to a record store on release day to buy it, taking it home and listening to it, all that takes time and effort. Is it all worth it? It is if you love the artist you put all that time into.
Today, you click a button and the album is there. There's no investment. You can still enjoy it but there's less obligation. Psychologically speaking, without the obligation, there's no need to convince yourself to like something that took ten seconds to get versus something that took significantly more time and effort to get.

[deepston]

Sept 11, 2017 12:40:50 GMT -5 Enigma. said:

Sept 11, 2017 12:38:37 GMT -5 areyoureadytojump said:

Yes, you are correct about Lana! Thanks. I keep thinking about her album which has been on the Billboard 200 for 5 years.

BTD is always going to be her best seller, same with Imagine Dragons' Night Visions which acts similarly. They're not going to top them sales-wise.

BTD is such a masterpiece, it's really hard to top that.

[inverse]

Sept 11, 2017 8:37:42 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

"Not that long ago" is relative; to a current teen the 90s was awhile ago, but to a 45 year-old, it doesn't seem like that long ago. Why do we always get into these exchanges over a term like "not that long ago" instead of discussing the actual issue in question (i.e. current stars versus ones from the late 90s or whenever)?

How I look at it 90s versus 10s:
Michael Jackson is better than Justin Bieber
Mariah Carey is better than Ariana Grande
Madonna is better than Lady Gaga
Celine is on par with Adele (I prefer Adele but am speaking generally)
Third Eye Blind are on par with Twenty One Pilots (though TOP still have time to surpass)
Kendrick Lamar is on par with Nas...but the 90s also had 2Pac, Biggie, Jay-Z, etc
Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera are better than Selena Gomez
N Sync/Backstreet Boys are on par or better than One Direction
Usher is on par with Bruno Mars (though a lot of Usher extended into the 00s)
Shania Twain, Garth Brooks, and Faith Hill are better than Sam Hunt and Florida Georgia Line (i.e. country crossover)
Sheryl Crow is on par with Pink, but the 90s also had Alanis Morissette, Sarah McLachlan, and Melissa Etheridge
Janet Jackson is better than Rihanna (and the 90s also had Brandy, Monica, etc)
En Vogue is better than Fifth Harmony
Ricky Martin, Enrique Iglesias, and Marc Anthony are better than Luis Fonsi
I don't know who to parallel to Whitney
Current music doesn't even have acts to compare to Radiohead, Smashing Pumpkins, etc
Current music doesn't also doesn't have acts to compare to Boyz II Men, Jodeci, etc
For the 10s, Taylor Swift would be a plus and perhaps has no 90s parallel.

Ok there's a few problems here.

Michael Jackson doesn't belong here. He made the year end list exactly once during this time period with a song that wasn't very good, Butterflies. Nobody is going to deny that MJ at his best blows Bieber out of the water but honestly I'd take Sorry and Cold Water over Butterflies any day. MJ at the time would be a better comparison to maybe Justin Timberlake now, someone who doesn't have all that many hits anymore and they aren't as good as they used to be, and that would be pretty even.

Then there's the comparison between Madonna and Lady Gaga. No disrespect to Madonna, she's made her fair share of classics, but by the 20-15 years ago period we're talking about she really wasn't as good as she used to be and was making songs like Music although Don't Tell Me is admittedly still amazing. In fact she was actually much better in the late 2000s than the earlier part of the decade.

I feel like Ariana Grande would be more accurately compared to Britney and Christina in which case she would win. I know people compare her to Mariah Carey a lot because her singing voice is similar but the music she's making is a lot closer to those two. 

No idea how Sheryl Crow, Sarah McLachlan, and Pink are related. Better comparison would be Christina Perri even though she hasn't had a hit in forever but still. And maybe even Little Big Town, which I'd definitely say is a toss up. Might as well compare Pink with herself because she had hits in the early 2000's and honestly she was better then then she is now.

Janet Jackson is NOT better than Rihanna (I do really miss Brandy and Monica though)

As for Luis Fonsi, I'll give you that Marc Anthony was better but didn't we all decide that Ricky Martin's followup hits to Livin' La Vida Loca were ridiculously lame? And Enrique just like Pink really could just be compared to himself now and honestly I think he's gotten a lot better.

And lastly, the 2010's also have a WAYYYYYY better electronica scene than that time. In just the last few years we had It Ain't Me, Stay, Don't Let Me Down, In The Name Of Love, Stay The Night etc. whereas the 1997-2002 time period had eurodance crap like Blue (Da Ba Dee) and We Like To Party so that's a huge advantage. And the late 90's and early 2000's had a bunch of Post Grunge hits, especially 2002 where on one year end list there was Nickelback, two Creed songs, a solo Chad Kroeger song, Puddle of Mudd, and some godawful hit nobody remembers called Wasting My Time by Default all in the year end top 30. So there were definitely bad trends of the time too.

[rimetm]

Spotify (Day 3 of 7)
1. [The Suicide Hotline song] / Logic feat. Alessia Cara & Khalid (1.380)
2. Bodak Yellow (Money Moves) / Cardi B. (1.097)
3. Too Good at Goodbyes / Sam Smith (1.094)
4. Bank Account / 21 Savage (1.088)
5. Look What You Made Me Do / Taylor Swift (1.021)
6. XO Tour Llif3 / Lil' Uzi Vert (0.931)
7. Jocelyn Flores / XXTENTACION (0.930)
8. Young, Dumb, & Broke / Khalid (0.884)
9. Unforgettable / French Montana feat. Swae Lee (0.829)
10. ...Ready for It? / Taylor Swift (0.794)

1. [The Suicide Hotline song] / Logic feat. Alessia Cara & Khalid (4.397)
2. Too Good at Goodbyes / Sam Smith (3.725)
3. Bank Account / 21 Savage (3.568)
4. Bodak Yellow (Money Moves) / Cardi B. (3.524)
5. Look What You Made Me Do / Taylor Swift (3.386)
6. XO Tour Llif3 / Lil' Uzi Vert (3.090)
7. Jocelyn Flores / XXTENTACION (3.007) (+1)
8. ...Ready for It? / Taylor Swift (2.908) (-1)
9. Young, Dumb, & Broke / Khalid (2.828)
10. Unforgettable / French Montana feat. Swae Lee (2.715)

YouTube (Day 1 of 7) (Cumulative)
1. Look What You Made Me Do / Taylor Swift (3.491)
2. Bodak Yellow (Money Moves) / Cardi B. (3.255)
3. Despacito / Luis Fonsi (2.626)
4. The Race / Tay-K (2.074)
5. Bank Account / 21 Savage (1.911)
6. [The Suicide Hotline Song] / Logic feat. Alessia Cara & Khalid (1.781)
7. I Get the Bag / Gucci Mane feat. Migos (1.512)
8. Rake it Up / Yo Gotti feat. Nicki Minaj (1.309)
9. These Heaux / Bhad Babie (1.274)
10. Unforgettable / French Montana feat. Swae Lee (1.147)

iTunes (Day 3 of 7) (Non-cumulative)
1. Look What You Made Me Do / Taylor Swift
2. Too Good at Goodbyes / Sam Smith (.9868)
3. Sorry Not Sorry / Demi Lovato (.5493)
4. [The Suicide Hotline Song] / Logic feat. Alessia Cara & Khalid (.5492)
5. ...Ready For It / Taylor Swift (.5134)
6. Despacito / Luis Fonsi (.4817)
7. Thunder / Imagine Dragons (.4565)
8. Strip That Down / Liam Payne feat. Quavo (.4220)
9. Feel it Still / Portugal. The Man (.4146)
10. Dusk 'Till Dawn / ZAYN feat. Sia (.3970)

I forgot that Sorry Not Sorry had its clean version performing really well (constitutes about 20% of the total sales), so it may have been stronger as a whole on Day 1 and 2.

Radio (Not until Tuesday, rolling)

[85la]

Sept 11, 2017 10:32:50 GMT -5 @pete said:

I think people that grew up in the 90s will like the music then more than today because that's just how it is, just like teens now will prefer todays music over the songs in the 30s etc

This exactly. It can explain a lot of the disagreements over the last two pages of this thread.

[felipe]

Sept 11, 2017 17:21:03 GMT -5 85la said:

Sept 11, 2017 10:32:50 GMT -5 @pete said:

I think people that grew up in the 90s will like the music then more than today because that's just how it is, just like teens now will prefer todays music over the songs in the 30s etc

This exactly. It can explain a lot of the disagreements over the last two pages of this thread.

So that means that MJ and Whitney are not necessarily better than Bieber and Ariana Grande, and that I just think so because I'm old?

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Sept 11, 2017 18:05:49 GMT -5 felipe said:

Sept 11, 2017 17:21:03 GMT -5 85la said:

This exactly. It can explain a lot of the disagreements over the last two pages of this thread.

So that means that MJ and Whitney are not necessarily better than Bieber and Ariana Grande, and that I just think so because I'm old?

Not necessarily.

I think different generations value different qualities in the music they grow up with. I'd be curious to hear from people who do think Bieber and Grande are superior to MJ and Whitney, not because I want to laugh at them but because I'd be interested in seeing what their reasoning is.

Personally, I do agree that music within the last half a decade has been lacking. And it's not even just the music but the artists behind it, the image, etc. And I do believe a lot of that does stem from how people consume music. What I said earlier about music being less of an all-around experience, I think that might be the basis for why so much is lacking in pop music. But of course, are we the target audience for these new pop acts? I'm in my 30s now. I can't relate to most of the new pop stars. They don't speak to or for me. So maybe my opinion doesn't really matter as far as they're concerned. Are they delivering what their target audience is looking for in music? Maybe music as a whole doesn't play the same role in the lives of teens and 20-somethings the way it did for us when we were that age. There's so much to look at that goes simply beyond our own limited perceptions of what music, the music industry, and the artists who make it up should be. For me, I still try to make music as much of an experience as I did back in the 90s or 2000s. It's harder without actual record stores to go to and it's certainly not as interactive since I listen to 90% of my music on a computer/iphone but my enjoyment is enhanced when the whole package is there. That's something I've decided I'll hold onto for as long as I can.

(I'd like to see this as its own topic because it is an interesting discussion and I'm sure it probably has been at some point)

[felipe]

Sept 11, 2017 18:13:25 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Personally, I do agree that music within the last half a decade has been lacking. And it's not even just the music but the artists behind it, the image, etc. And I do believe a lot of that does stem from how people consume music. What I said earlier about music being less of an all-around experience, I think that might be the basis for why so much is lacking in pop music. But of course, are we the target audience for these new pop acts? I'm in my 30s now. I can't relate to most of the new pop stars. They don't speak to or for me. So maybe my opinion doesn't really matter as far as they're concerned. Are they delivering what their target audience is looking for in music? Maybe music as a whole doesn't play the same role in the lives of teens and 20-somethings the way it did for us when we were that age. There's so much to look at that goes simply beyond our own limited perceptions of what music, the music industry, and the artists who make it up should be. For me, I still try to make music as much of an experience as I did back in the 90s or 2000s. It's harder without actual record stores to go to and it's certainly not as interactive since I listen to 90% of my music on a computer/iphone but my enjoyment is enhanced when the whole package is there. That's something I've decided I'll hold onto for as long as I can.

You have some great points there. I've also wondered about the target audience. I know I'm not the target audience for Ariana Grande, but isn't her audience smaller than what it should/could be. If we feel pop music is somewhat "lacking" it's fair to take into consideration that a lot of these acts are not the megastars we saw on previous decades. If we put Ariana, Selena and Demi together they can't compare to the level os success Britney once had or Mariah before her. Fifth Harmony can't compare to the level of success of Destiny's Child or Spice Girls. And so on. So it's not just a matter of we dont get it because we're old. There's clearly something in there that a large part of the public isn't responding to.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Sept 11, 2017 18:47:59 GMT -5 felipe said:

Sept 11, 2017 18:13:25 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Personally, I do agree that music within the last half a decade has been lacking. And it's not even just the music but the artists behind it, the image, etc. And I do believe a lot of that does stem from how people consume music. What I said earlier about music being less of an all-around experience, I think that might be the basis for why so much is lacking in pop music. But of course, are we the target audience for these new pop acts? I'm in my 30s now. I can't relate to most of the new pop stars. They don't speak to or for me. So maybe my opinion doesn't really matter as far as they're concerned. Are they delivering what their target audience is looking for in music? Maybe music as a whole doesn't play the same role in the lives of teens and 20-somethings the way it did for us when we were that age. There's so much to look at that goes simply beyond our own limited perceptions of what music, the music industry, and the artists who make it up should be. For me, I still try to make music as much of an experience as I did back in the 90s or 2000s. It's harder without actual record stores to go to and it's certainly not as interactive since I listen to 90% of my music on a computer/iphone but my enjoyment is enhanced when the whole package is there. That's something I've decided I'll hold onto for as long as I can.

You have some great points there. I've also wondered about the target audience. I know I'm not the target audience for Ariana Grande, but isn't her audience smaller than what it should/could be. If we feel pop music is somewhat "lacking" it's fair to take into consideration that a lot of these acts are not the megastars we saw on previous decades. If we put Ariana, Selena and Demi together they can't compare to the level os success Britney once had or Mariah before her. Fifth Harmony can't compare to the level of success of Destiny's Child or Spice Girls. And so on. So it's not just a matter of we dont get it because we're old. There's clearly something in there that a large part of the public isn't responding to.

To some degree, since the 90s and probably before, artists have always had a limited target audience. Britney was aimed at teens and pre-teens in her early days. As they aged, there was a need for her to expand her audience as she also aged, to try to appeal to older people. Sometimes an artist can appeal to multiple demographics, like Adele, but it isn't always worth the risk to appeal to multiple demos when you need to first appeal to one primary demographic first.

I'll also add that music today is a LOT more segmented than even 10 and 20 years ago. You have demographics not even by age but by race, class, general background, plus even amongst each demographic, there are people who source their music from different places. That option wasn't there 20 years ago when you had TV and the radio and that was pretty well it.

[Au$tin]

Sept 11, 2017 12:33:39 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Sept 11, 2017 12:20:26 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

It changes quite a bit, actually, because if you think about the timeline, you'll get your answer. The Internet. Social media. The digital age.

It's hard to have any sort of "event" with everything available at your fingertips whenever you want. "Why would millions gather around to watch the latest VMA performance when you can just look it up later?" says the consumer. "Why put that much effort into it if not as many people are going to see it immensely?" asks the people with the money.

But I would argue that we have plenty of artists giving big hyped events. Taylor Swift, Adele, Justin Bieber, Ariana Grande, Drake, and Rihanna all immediately come to mind. Whenever they do anything, people follow it.

Another problem is that events are now long and drawn out, but is that really a problem? A fan can follow an entire process of the creation of a song or album now. Look at Kelly Clarkson. Her most recent single actually had quite a lot of backstory. We've been seeing videos and pictures of her in the studio for months, so the grand day of release doesn't feel quite as eventful because we've been expecting it. However, as a fan, it's amazing to see all of these things that we used to be in the dark for.

So do you think just as many people are hyped about seeing Biever, Grande, etc as were hyped to see Michael, Madonna, etc?

First off, I don't know, because I wasn't alive during their hey day (again, it's been a long time since that was a thing). Second off, I never said that. I only said that there still are hyped releases and events, but I never said they were of the same caliber.

[forg]

Over a year ago I was surprised to see that there were nostalgia pieces about about High School Musical and Hannah Montana already and then I realized they are 10 years old! Lea Michelle recently tweeted about Glee premiering 8 years ago, remember how that show dominated the charts every single episode lol. Time flies so fast

[tanooki]

Why are we comparing new and old artists to each other


what's wrong with just enjoying music for what it is

[jenglisbe]

Sept 11, 2017 14:16:59 GMT -5 inverse said:

Michael Jackson doesn't belong here. He made the year end list exactly once during this time period with a song that wasn't very good, Butterflies. Nobody is going to deny that MJ at his best blows Bieber out of the water but honestly I'd take Sorry and Cold Water over Butterflies any day. MJ at the time would be a better comparison to maybe Justin Timberlake now, someone who doesn't have all that many hits anymore and they aren't as good as they used to be, and that would be pretty even.

Then there's the comparison between Madonna and Lady Gaga. No disrespect to Madonna, she's made her fair share of classics, but by the 20-15 years ago period we're talking about she really wasn't as good as she used to be and was making songs like Music although Don't Tell Me is admittedly still amazing. In fact she was actually much better in the late 2000s than the earlier part of the decade.

I feel like Ariana Grande would be more accurately compared to Britney and Christina in which case she would win. I know people compare her to Mariah Carey a lot because her singing voice is similar but the music she's making is a lot closer to those two. 

No idea how Sheryl Crow, Sarah McLachlan, and Pink are related. Better comparison would be Christina Perri even though she hasn't had a hit in forever but still. And maybe even Little Big Town, which I'd definitely say is a toss up. Might as well compare Pink with herself because she had hits in the early 2000's and honestly she was better then then she is now.

Janet Jackson is NOT better than Rihanna (I do really miss Brandy and Monica though)

As for Luis Fonsi, I'll give you that Marc Anthony was better but didn't we all decide that Ricky Martin's followup hits to Livin' La Vida Loca were ridiculously lame? And Enrique just like Pink really could just be compared to himself now and honestly I think he's gotten a lot better.

And lastly, the 2010's also have a WAYYYYYY better electronica scene than that time. In just the last few years we had It Ain't Me, Stay, Don't Let Me Down, In The Name Of Love, Stay The Night etc. whereas the 1997-2002 time period had eurodance crap like Blue (Da Ba Dee) and We Like To Party so that's a huge advantage. And the late 90's and early 2000's had a bunch of Post Grunge hits, especially 2002 where on one year end list there was Nickelback, two Creed songs, a solo Chad Kroeger song, Puddle of Mudd, and some godawful hit nobody remembers called Wasting My Time by Default all in the year end top 30. So there were definitely bad trends of the time too.

I don't know what year-end list you're talking about, but MJ had plenty of great singles in the 90s - Black or White, Remember the Time, You Are Not Alone, etc.

Madonna also had a lot of great music in the 90s - singles like Secret and Take A Bow, the Ray of Light album, etc.

Actually, it seems like we're talking about two different periods, so I will stop there.

[jenglisbe]

Sept 11, 2017 17:21:03 GMT -5 85la said:

Sept 11, 2017 10:32:50 GMT -5 @pete said:

I think people that grew up in the 90s will like the music then more than today because that's just how it is, just like teens now will prefer todays music over the songs in the 30s etc

This exactly. It can explain a lot of the disagreements over the last two pages of this thread.

There is an element of nostalgia in the music people love, but I think a lot of people can be objective, too. I grew up in the 80s and 90s, but there is plenty of music from the 60s (and 2010s) that I love. Additionally, I can look at measurements like the Hot 100. Mariah Carey had over a dozen #1s in the 90s, plus other hits. The modern day Mariah in terms of artists is Ariana Grande, and in the 10s she hasn't had anywhere near that chart impact. That's an objective measure. There were a lot more country crossover songs in the late 90s than we've had this decade. That's again an objective measure.

Sept 11, 2017 19:41:45 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Sept 11, 2017 12:33:39 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

So do you think just as many people are hyped about seeing Biever, Grande, etc as were hyped to see Michael, Madonna, etc?

First off, I don't know, because I wasn't alive during their hey day (again, it's been a long time since that was a thing). Second off, I never said that. I only said that there still are hyped releases and events, but I never said they were of the same caliber.

What started this whole discussion was someone saying there isn't the same type of hype over current stars as we had 20 years ago. So, I don't see what your intent was if you weren't offering feedback on whether the hype/impact was of the same caliber.

[Gary]

Well...gotta have something to talk about the last few days, until the 9/23 gets revealed as it has finally, there isn't really a lot to say about the 9/30 Hot 100

[rimetm]

We can talk about the data like what I've gathering for my daily mega-post; there's no need to bloat this thread to 3 pages when 1.5 of it is decidedly off-topic...

For example, I wanted to point out that Bodak Yellow is quickly gaining an edge on LWYMMD on streaming, with an actual upperhand on Spotify and a close margin on YouTube. This could be a sign that Taylor's longevity could in fact have an Achille's heel on the most important metric, especially if airplay doesn't catch up fast. Sales are also playing tug of war with Sam Smith, so she could leave the three-figure zone as soon as this week.

[forg]

I'm rooting for 1-800-273-8255, I hope it has a shot for #1

Also rooting for Sorry Not Sorry to hit the top 10. Slow Hands too but I think it's not going there anymore unless airplay continues to rise but I think it may peak soon

Camilla Cabello's Havana has potential to be her solo breakout hit


This is the chart we get 4 1D boys on the same chart with solo singles? If Harry Styles only has a new song or if Sign of the Times had longevity

[felipe]

Sept 11, 2017 12:20:26 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Sept 11, 2017 8:24:28 GMT -5 felipe said:

Ok, but how does that change my point about current pop stars?

It changes quite a bit, actually, because if you think about the timeline, you'll get your answer. The Internet. Social media. The digital age.

It's hard to have any sort of "event" with everything available at your fingertips whenever you want. "Why would millions gather around to watch the latest VMA performance when you can just look it up later?" says the consumer. "Why put that much effort into it if not as many people are going to see it immensely?" asks the people with the money.

But people do see it, maybe even more than in the past. Just like you said, everything is available at your fingertips, so a great VMAs performance can be watched by anyone who wants for weeks (as opposed to just the people who had access to MTV or were able to watch it at a particular time). Just look what the VMAs performance did for Logic (whether it was great or not, it was one of this year's standouts). People are still watching it on YouTube. When you put effort into a video it can generate a lot of hype (Formation, Anaconda, Wrecking Ball). But it seems that lately many acts are putting zero effort on their videos (or performances) and then everyone just throws around the "see, music videos don't create buzz anymore."

[Golden Bluebird]

kworb.net/airadio/

*** = Dropped or added a format

Overall AI (Top 20) - 09/12/2017
1. (=) CHARLIE PUTH - Attention (178.511) (+0.128)
2. (=) SHAWN MENDES - There's Nothing Holdin' Me Back (173.537) (-1.202)
3. (=) DJ KHALED F/RIHANNA/B. TILLER - Wild Thoughts (168.979) (-1.618)
4. (=) IMAGINE DRAGONS - Believer (144.595) (-0.945)
5. (=) NIALL HORAN - Slow Hands (137.215) (+1.575)
6. (=) ED SHEERAN - Shape Of You (112.222) (-0.897)
7. (=) LIAM PAYNE - Strip That Down f/Quavo (112.155) (+0.432) ***
8. (=) FRENCH MONTANA - Unforgettable f/Swae Lee (109.399) (-0.307)
9. (=) BRUNO MARS - That's What I Like (108.017) (-1.041)
10. (=) LUIS FONSI - Despacito f/Daddy Yankee (103.792) (-3.354)
11. (=) ZEDD & ALESSIA CARA - Stay (101.096) (-0.564)
12. (+1) TAYLOR SWIFT - Look What You Made Me Do (99.822) (+2.205)
13. (-1) THE CHAINSMOKERS & COLDPLAY - Something Just Like This (99.240) (-0.250)
14. (=) PORTUGAL. THE MAN - Feel It Still (97.248) (+1.908)
15. (=) SAM HUNT - Body Like A Back Road (89.467) (-3.544)
16. (=) CARDI B - Bodak Yellow (74.948) (+1.418)
17. (+1) DUSTIN LYNCH - Small Town Boy (72.726) (+0.358)
18. (-1) JAMES ARTHUR - Say You Won't Let Go (72.115) (-0.329)
19. (+1) KYGO X SELENA GOMEZ - It Ain't Me (66.625) (-0.994)
20. (+1) P!NK - What About Us (66.441) (+0.536)

Others:
26. (+1) KENDRICK LAMAR - LOYALTY. f/ Rihanna (58.358) (+1.643)
33. (=) MAROON 5 - What Lovers Do f/SZA (52.482) (+2.017)
34. (+1) SZA - Love Galore f/Travis Scott (49.113) (+1.390)
39. (+1) DEMI LOVATO - Sorry Not Sorry (45.435) (+1.143)
51. (+10) SAM SMITH - Too Good At Goodbyes (37.634) (+4.617)
73. (+2) JACQUEES - B.E.D. (26.902) (+1.149)

[forg]

Swift entering top 10 soon

Pink's airplay prowess continues which is good to make up for her very poor streaming

Maroon Five is gaining good as well

[badrobot]

I think this is a really great discussion.

Most interesting to me is the idea of pop stars "evolving" into more timeless artists. I think we've actually seen some more recent artists show a lot of growth.

Beyoncé
From DC to solo pop star to an album artist - Lemonade was a real pop culture moment and I think will stand the test of time.

Rihanna
Probably the most distinctive personality in musical pop culture -- which is amazing since when she started she was considered a bit of a cipher who just churned out singles.

Miley Cyrus
From Hannah Montana to mainstream pop to her singer/songwriter persona, she's evolved a ton -- with a voice to back it up. Not sure about having a lot more pop hits but she certainly has a perspective.

Justin Bieber
He hasn't quite proven he's got a strong artistic POV yet but it's undeniable that he's successfully outgrown the kiddie pop, and he still has room to grow.

Taylor Swift
Certainly the country to pop thing was an evolution, and she has proven she still has commercial firepower. 1989 will probably end up remembered similar to albums like Come On Over and Tragic Kingdom.

Certainly that's not an exhaustive list, just ones that came to mind.

[Dylan :)]

Sorry if this has been said but I think on top of the way we consume music affecting how quickly we get it, we also have much more choice now. For example, when I was younger (I'm only 19 but) the only way I could listen to the songs I liked was by buying the CD (namely Now That's What I Call Music), requesting it on a music channel or hoping to catch it on the radio. I didn't get broadband until 2007/2008 or so, so before then I couldn't just look up a song. However, this also meant I generally only knew about songs from the radio, TV or that a friend would tell me about. Now with Spotify (granted I don't have it but in general), you are not 'forced' to only know the biggest stars, you can listen to a random indie artist from the middle of nowhere in Australia with ten true fans who happened to upload their music to Spotify, and so completely ignore all of the big acts.

I also think the growing popularity in being negative about anything and everything just because has hurt big acts. I even saw it a bit in the VMA thread, people aren't prepared to give big events a chance anymore, it seems. If an event or person becomes big enough, people just want to see it/them crumble. "I'm not even a fan of *big artist*" is 'cool', or whatever. And of course, as others pointed out - nostalgia and looking to the past as "the good old days".

[felipe]

Sept 12, 2017 11:25:52 GMT -5 Dylan :) said:

Sorry if this has been said but I think on top of the way we consume music affecting how quickly we get it, we also have much more choice now. For example, when I was younger (I'm only 19 but) the only way I could listen to the songs I liked was by buying the CD (namely Now That's What I Call Music), requesting it on a music channel or hoping to catch it on the radio. I didn't get broadband until 2007/2008 or so, so before then I couldn't just look up a song. However, this also meant I generally only knew about songs from the radio, TV or that a friend would tell me about. Now with Spotify (granted I don't have it but in general), you are not 'forced' to only know the biggest stars, you can listen to a random indie artist from the middle of nowhere in Australia with ten true fans who happened to upload their music to Spotify, and so completely ignore all of the big acts.

Did you followed music and bought cds when you were 8?

I understand your point about that large variety of options that are available now, and in theory that makes sense. In reality, you take a look at teenagers and it seems they all listen to basically the same acts. Drake, Bieber, Swift, Kendrick...

[Gary]

The only real differences in options bewteen now and 11 years ago was streaming.

11 years ago in 2006, although stores were rapidly shrinking, they still existed and as today, CD sales were on rapid decline.  Even today if you look hard enough, physical CDs are stll available for purchase.

The format of consumption in 2006 showing the biggest growth was digital downloads, on basically many of the same services as today.

[areyoureadytojump]

Wow

hitsdailydouble.com/news&id=308325

Tuesday, September 12, 2017

FIRST WEEK FIGURES ON "GOODBYES"

"Too Good at Goodbyes," the new single from Capitol's Sam Smith, is looking at about 75k in single sales in its first week, and 12-14m streams, or about 160-170k song SPS.

The track is currently #1 on Spotify's Global Top 50, #2 on the U.S. Top 50 and #1 at iTunes in the U.S., U.K. and numerous other territories.

In other Smith digital news, Amazon has unveiled the playlist Sam Smith Side By Side, featuring key songs by the artist along with his commentary on the material and its origins.

[Deleted]

Those numbers are ok but I don't think that's enough to debut that high on Hot 100 then

[jenglisbe]

Sept 12, 2017 14:56:03 GMT -5 Gary said:

The only real differences in options bewteen now and 11 years ago was streaming.

11 years ago in 2006, although stores were rapidly shrinking, they still existed and as today, CD sales were on rapid decline.  Even today if you look hard enough, physical CDs are stll available for purchase.

The format of consumption in 2006 showing the biggest growth was digital downloads, on basically many of the same services as today.

Streaming was available 10+ years ago to a degree. I was using Napster in college in the first half of the 00s. I know it has really developed since then, but my point is more that even that type of listening (along with CDs, mp3s, radio, etc) was available 10-15 years ago.