Sambalada
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Post by Sambalada on Dec 14, 2017 8:39:36 GMT -5
A very odd kill victim...
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Web
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Post by Web on Dec 14, 2017 9:06:25 GMT -5
Weird kill, idk why mafia didn't go for someone who was cleared considering there were two cleared players.
Sam, please list your current leans with a bit of explanation why.
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Web
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Post by Web on Dec 14, 2017 9:09:42 GMT -5
also Leo I appreciate the idea but this might be easier: greentoo, please vote for who you investigated last night. If they were town, like your own post (the same one with the vote). If they were mafia, like this post.
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Web
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Post by Web on Dec 14, 2017 9:10:49 GMT -5
oh wait I'm dumb if he's blocked then he didn't get a report.
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Leo β
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Post by Leo β on Dec 14, 2017 9:16:49 GMT -5
damnit that's true.
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Web
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Post by Web on Dec 14, 2017 9:31:13 GMT -5
some final thoughts before I head out for my last final of the semester:(!!!!)
I'm still not sure why the mafia didn't go for one of the two cleared players, it seems stupid to shrink the pool of players who you can actually set up for a mislynch. cynthia is a great player and helped the town out a lot with different ideas and scenarios, but now we're left with the final mafia being one of Kunt, zaclord, or Sam, assuming the roleblocker is still with the town.
On that note, I'm not sure why the roleblocker blocked greentoo, either they actually are sided with the mafia and wanted or maybe they're town who didn't know who to silence and didn't realize it would also block greentoo's report? If the roleblocker is part of the mafia we're in mylo (mislynch and lose) so we need to lynch one of the two today, but again not sure why greentoo wasn't blocked earlier if the blocker is scum. Something I have to think about more this day phase.
Finally:
Vote: Sam
voting based on my suspicions at EoD D2 (can restate later if necessary) that hopefully he'll clarify in a leans post later. I'll be back later tonight to catch up with the thread, hopefully everyone has checked in by then.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 17:59:56 GMT -5
I... need to process this. These actions donβt make sense.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 18:04:07 GMT -5
I... need to process this. These actions donβt make sense. Iβll have something up by tonight, btw. Iβm leaving for NYC tomorrow and thereβs no guarantee what kind of time Iβll have once Iβm gone.
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Web
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Post by Web on Dec 14, 2017 18:23:38 GMT -5
so I know I was the one against this idea D3 but maybe we should determine the pros and cons of the blocker claiming D4? At least we could get some clarification on what they've been doing since these block choices are really confusing me. Obviously no claims before further discussion but I think it's worth considering. zaclord π Sambalada you guys checking in at some point? Especially Sam with that list of leans, curious to see who your top suspicion for mafia is (and why) since you couldn't voice anything yesterday.
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Sambalada
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Post by Sambalada on Dec 14, 2017 18:35:02 GMT -5
This is... odd.
We can safely say that the roleblocker is mafia now. Like, why the fuck would a town roleblocker block a greentoo. That also means their decision was made on N2 since they blocked one of the mafias on N1. We should boot the mafia today, preferably the roleblocker.
And questions. Actually, what made me suspicious in your eyes, guys? Please answer in neat sentences and I will respond as much as I can.
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Web
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Post by Web on Dec 14, 2017 18:37:43 GMT -5
This is... odd. We can safely say that the roleblocker is mafia now. Like, why the f**k would a town roleblocker block a greentoo. That also means their decision was made on N2 since they blocked one of the mafias on N1. We should boot the mafia today, preferably the roleblocker. And questions. Actually, what made me suspicious in your eyes, guys? Please answer in neat sentences and I will respond as much as I can. please list your thoughts/leans on the remaining non-cleared players (Kunt, myself, and zaclord) and let us know who you think is the remaining mafia are (or two mafia apparently, since you think the roleblocker is mafia) I can grab my previous thoughts on you that I listed on previous days later tonight when I get some more time, I want to hear your perspective first.
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Web
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Post by Web on Dec 14, 2017 18:42:07 GMT -5
also the "we should boot the mafia today" quote is one of those town cheerleader type posts that rubs me the wrong way. Of course we should try and lynch the mafia, but if you aren't digging around helping us find them then the words don't mean much.
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Sambalada
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Post by Sambalada on Dec 14, 2017 18:56:31 GMT -5
Leo's gameplay is boating and very scummy. I must say I was shocked when greentoo said he was innocent.
I'm a little suspicious of thewebinator because from the start, he is trying to put ideas in people's head. Now that might feels like an exaggeration and he might just trying to get people to talk, but at this point, we have to nitpick on our point of view.
Kunt read as a town for me. Az has said multiple times that he was 100% sure that Kunt is town. He said it was just his feeling, but we all know now that Az is conductor, and that could mean he had investigate Kunt earlier and Kunt is read a townperson. Right?
That leaves zaclord as the other potential scum. Like me, he rarely talked throughout the game so I don't have any base information about this other than a guess.
So assuming the roleblocker is scum (which is more likely now), my leans are
Town greentoo (cleared) Leo (cleared) Me (cleared by myself) Kunt
Scum thewebinator Zaclord
If the roleblocker is town (lol), I'd put zaclord as a town lean since it's odd that thewebinator made it as far as he does even when he's the most informative player from the start.
Granted, other potential scenario is the scums tried to kill him N1 but is prevented by the doctor.
That also leads to other question, who is the doctor? Other questions we have to consider is, what is the roleblocker's motive on blocking me last night?
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Web
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Post by Web on Dec 14, 2017 19:33:08 GMT -5
thanks for the post Sam, not sure why you didn't put a vote down after it but I'll post more on your case later when I get my older posts from D2.
So here are my thoughts on a potential blocker claim this day phase:
Pros: - We get to find out the reasoning behind the blocker's actions and can match it in some way to their posts throughout the game to try and determine if they are lying or not - If the blocker is town affiliated, his usefulness is limited at this point: - if he silences cleared/town players he stops their ability to post and find scum as well as blocks any potential role they may have - if he silences mafia/scummy looking players he handicaps any discussion about them; lynching a silenced player (unless that player is confirmed scum) is hard to justify since the player can't adaquately defend themselves - If the blocker is scum affiliated, at the very least their posts will be under the spotlight and they can be pressed to help reveal their affiliation
Cons: - If blocker is town affiliated, he is revealed and can be killed by the mafia in the night, though I'd imagine a player like greentoo would be a higher priority (no idea why he isn't dead yet?) - We may not be able to determine the blocker's affiliation from analyzing their past posts and their reasoning
Imo I feel that a blocker reveal is more beneficial than detrimental to town for the reasons above, but I want to hear the thoughts of other players before we actually do anything.
I'm comfortable with my vote for now, waiting for analysis from zaclord and Kunt (hope you don't mind if I use the old name for the rest of the game for continuity's sake!) later.
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Leo β
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Post by Leo β on Dec 14, 2017 19:56:56 GMT -5
Sambalada what if Kunt is the roleblocker and Az read him on N1, if that happened, the roleblocker was showed as a town and not as a roleblocker. If Kunt is the roleblocker, he is alligned with mafia now. The kill was strange, like webi said (and this is the reason I think he is town) is why mafia didn't kill one of the revealed players (aka greentoo and me), that's a strange strategy.
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Sambalada
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Post by Sambalada on Dec 14, 2017 20:10:02 GMT -5
Sambalada what if Kunt is the roleblocker and Az read him on N1, if that happened, the roleblocker was showed as a town and not as a roleblocker. If Kunt is the roleblocker, he is alligned with mafia now. Okay. Legit forgot about this. Ugh it makes it even harder now >_<
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Web
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Post by Web on Dec 14, 2017 20:15:53 GMT -5
guys you're forgetting that Az was the mafia nightkill after D2, he only had the chance to inspect a player once on N1 and it's basically confirmed that it he investigated gravey who came back as suspicious. As far as I know power roles don't start with an action before D1 so it's impossible for him to have investigated Kunt or anyone else other than gravey.
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zaclord π
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Post by zaclord π on Dec 14, 2017 20:45:22 GMT -5
Okay let me dig through this and I'll have some comments in a little bit (just getting home from dinner... what a chaotic week ugh)
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zaclord π
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Post by zaclord π on Dec 14, 2017 21:57:12 GMT -5
Weird kill, idk why mafia didn't go for someone who was cleared considering there were two cleared players. Yeah, very confused by killing Cynthia. With greentoo cleared and Leo cleared, there are four of us left, whereas it could've been five with only one cleared which would've been way smarter, imo (honestly how is greentoo still alive?). Cynthia was more active and did analyze some people's postings, but I don't see how she was a better kill than Leo, or especially greentoo. also Leo I appreciate the idea but this might be easier: greentoo, please vote for who you investigated last night. If they were town, like your own post (the same one with the vote). If they were mafia, like this post. This strikes me as odd because I feel like you're an experienced enough player to not forget the roles, especially when roleblock has been under the microscope the entire game. Maybe you just forgot, but maybe you posted this just to make it seem like you were trying to help town out to draw attention away from yourself. On that note, I'm not sure why the roleblocker blocked greentoo, either they actually are sided with the mafia and wanted or maybe they're town who didn't know who to silence and didn't realize it would also block greentoo's report? If the roleblocker is part of the mafia we're in mylo (mislynch and lose) so we need to lynch one of the two today, but again not sure why greentoo wasn't blocked earlier if the blocker is scum. Something I have to think about more this day phase. Definitely agree with this. I have no clue what scum would've had to gain from not blocking OR killing greentoo on N2 (or was it N3? what day is it?) if roleblock was scum. Town Roleblock blocking greentoo today definitely seems strange, but maybe there was reason behind it. thanks for the post Sam, not sure why you didn't put a vote down after it but I'll post more on your case later when I get my older posts from D2. So here are my thoughts on a potential blocker claim this day phase: Pros: - We get to find out the reasoning behind the blocker's actions and can match it in some way to their posts throughout the game to try and determine if they are lying or not - If the blocker is town affiliated, his usefulness is limited at this point: - if he silences cleared/town players he stops their ability to post and find scum as well as blocks any potential role they may have - if he silences mafia/scummy looking players he handicaps any discussion about them; lynching a silenced player (unless that player is confirmed scum) is hard to justify since the player can't adaquately defend themselves
- If the blocker is scum affiliated, at the very least their posts will be under the spotlight and they can be pressed to help reveal their affiliation Cons: - If blocker is town affiliated, he is revealed and can be killed by the mafia in the night, though I'd imagine a player like greentoo would be a higher priority (no idea why he isn't dead yet?) - We may not be able to determine the blocker's affiliation from analyzing their past posts and their reasoning Imo I feel that a blocker reveal is more beneficial than detrimental to town for the reasons above, but I want to hear the thoughts of other players before we actually do anything. I'm comfortable with my vote for now, waiting for analysis from zaclord and Kunt (hope you don't mind if I use the old name for the rest of the game for continuity's sake!) later. Torn on whether or not revealing roleblock is a good idea. It could help clear some things up (like why block greentoo today). But could also out themselves as the roleblock and then there's even slighter chance to stop the mafia (critical tonight if we don't lynch them today) if the mafia kills them. It may be worth the risk, but I'd want to hear everyone else's thoughts before deciding on anything. guys you're forgetting that Az was the mafia nightkill after D2, he only had the chance to inspect a player once on N1 and it's basically confirmed that it he investigated gravey who came back as suspicious. As far as I know power roles don't start with an action before D1 so it's impossible for him to have investigated Kunt or anyone else other than gravey. Yeah, I'm not sure why Sam jumped on agreeing with Leo so quickly when this 100% doesn't make any sense. Maybe like Leo, Sam got mixed up/forgot about the previous events, but literally just agreeing with Leo and saying that this makes it even harder now is just strange to me: Sambalada what if Kunt is the roleblocker and Az read him on N1, if that happened, the roleblocker was showed as a town and not as a roleblocker. If Kunt is the roleblocker, he is alligned with mafia now. Okay. Legit forgot about this. Ugh it makes it even harder now >_< Alright, to comment on Sam's gameplay and why I've been suspicious of him for awhile is the whole game he's played on this overly confident attitude, while also playing up this "I'm a newbie that's still learning so I could be wrong" persona. I know English isn't your first language, so that may be the reasoning, but it has rubbed me the wrong way from the very beginning. See example of a post that feels this way to me below: Is it realistic if greentoo's "random vote" for gravey at the start of the game was just a mask for them? Maybe one of the more experienced players in the scum group told greentoo to do so. Again, just analyzing things, I might be right or might be wrong. I'm still taking shaky steps. Reviewing your posts, you seem to quickly point fingers at people any time there's anything slightly suspicious from them ( gravey and greentoo defending each other D1, Leo basically every time he spoke, now thewebinator just because he's been gunning for you? [you have been a little more committed to your suspicions of him though) without very much to base it off of. Okay what the f**k!? There's an option for the mafias not to kill someone? This also rubbed me the wrong way from the get-go. WHY would the mafia not kill someone on N1? Zero benefit to doing that. Always struck me as you trying to cover up for the fact the doctor saved whoever scum tried to kill. Anyway, a things in your defense just in case I'm reading you incorrectly: Leo's gameplay is boating and very scummy. I must say I was shocked when greentoo said he was innocent. I'm a little suspicious of thewebinator because from the start, he is trying to put ideas in people's head. Now that might feels like an exaggeration and he might just trying to get people to talk, but at this point, we have to nitpick on our point of view. Kunt read as a town for me. Az has said multiple times that he was 100% sure that Kunt is town. He said it was just his feeling, but we all know now that Az is conductor, and that could mean he had investigate Kunt earlier and Kunt is read a townperson. Right?That leaves zaclord as the other potential scum. Like me, he rarely talked throughout the game so I don't have any base information about this other than a guess. So assuming the roleblocker is scum (which is more likely now), my leans are Towngreentoo (cleared) Leo (cleared) Me (cleared by myself) Kunt Scumthewebinator Zaclord If the roleblocker is town (lol), I'd put zaclord as a town lean since it's odd that thewebinator made it as far as he does even when he's the most informative player from the start. Granted, other potential scenario is the scums tried to kill him N1 but is prevented by the doctor. That also leads to other question, who is the doctor? Other questions we have to consider is, what is the roleblocker's motive on blocking me last night? 1. Not sure why you're so confidently trying to clear Kunt, especially with flawed logic. If you were mafia it would make sense to keep everyone as suspects still. Kunt should very much still be thrown in the mix for being a suspect (although he is probably my least suspicious of the 3 remaining players). 2. Really no clue how thewebinator hasn't been killed yet either. Maybe due to greentoo revealing so early and Az's reveal about gravey, the target was taken off of him, but I would've killed him over Cynthia last night for sure if I were maf. Him being mafia would definitely explain that, but I would be extremely confused by his choice of kills (well, at least the lack of killing greentoo) if he were the mafia because he's smarter than to leave him alive - same reason can be applied to Kurt, which is why I'm voting for Sam. Vote: SamNow, Sam, please try and explain why you're so suspicious of thewebinator other than him targeting you and still being alive somehow. Also, what the heck were you trying to tell us when you were silenced? It was so confusing and I almost felt like you were trying to distract/confuse us after awhile. Please elaborate on what was so important for you to communicate to us.
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zaclord π
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Post by zaclord π on Dec 14, 2017 21:59:47 GMT -5
@touch, where you at!? Please update us on your thoughts ASAP! Also, Leo β where are you leaning now? You're a pivotal player here now that you're cleared and we need FOUR votes (out of 6) for a lynch. And greentoo please vote for whichever of the four uncleared players you think is most suspicious. That way we will at least know which way you're leaning right now
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Sambalada
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Post by Sambalada on Dec 14, 2017 22:14:22 GMT -5
Ugh. I'm not being suspicious on thewebinator because he's voting for me. I was suspecting him as a scum because from the start he was moving the votes.
How am I overconfident tho? Lol, I never said something like let's just vote for greentoo and leo because they are obviously aligned mafia. I said what's on my mind, I said what I think needs to be said, I said what I have in mind from reading this thread.
Now for me being a mafia, I have nothing to say to defense myself. I know my posting history in this thread is not good and I agree if I were a watcher who don't have the green room link, I'd think that Sam is scum. But I know I'm not.
Also, I can't understand the logic in a scum roleblocker blocking two teammates twice in a row. Maybe once, to take off suspicion, but not twice and in a row.
I'll try to read back my D2 posting history to analyze the motive why I was blocked.
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Web
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Post by Web on Dec 14, 2017 22:40:28 GMT -5
That also leads to other question, who is the doctor? this part of your response really threw me off. This could be me sticking my head too far down the tunnel but this kind of read to me as a really transparent genuine question from a scum player. I'm not sure why anyone other than a mafia player would want to know the identify of the doctor, or at least ask it in that semi-careless way without any other qualification. also zaclord π based on my post that Sam liked D3 here: Sam, are you asking greentoo to investigate me tonight? Like this post if that's what you mean by the votes. can offer more thoughts later but to clarify gravey is basically confirmed maf in my mind and I'll vote for him later in the day phase. it looks like Sam was trying to tell greentoo to investigate me in the night. He kept voting greentoo > Web, greentoo > Web a few times, so figured maybe he was trying to direct greentoo towards me, which makes sense based on me being his biggest scum read.
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Web
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Post by Web on Dec 14, 2017 22:44:13 GMT -5
also for the record Sam still has yet to vote for me or anyone else this day phase despite stating his list of leans. Any reason for the hesitation Sam?
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Sambalada
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Post by Sambalada on Dec 14, 2017 22:46:23 GMT -5
ALSO About my voting pattern yesterday, when I voted for gravey then voted for myself, I was willing to say that I am not a scum but gravey is. When I voted for greentoo then voted for thewebinator, I was trying to tell greentoo to investigate thewebinator. And here's some other explanations about my suspicion on thewebinator: - When I was silenced yesterday, I told greentoo to investigate thewebinator, which failed today because he was blocked. Thus, greentoo being blocked just now isn't the only anomaly about this night action. If there's anytime for the mafias to silence a reader, it must be the night when the reader was about to expose them. - On Day 2, the day gravey was silenced, thewebinator posted his first analysis of the day (http://pulsemusic.proboards.com/post/6380102/), and there he was suggesting that it is weird greentoo wasn't silenced and the roleblocker blocking me was a tactic to protect me as a mafia member. Maybe I'm just not intelligent enough, but I wouldn't think that far if I were just a townperson, which I am. That tactic can only be thought of by the member of the mafia itself, and they DID it on N2 (gravey being silenced). To all the town players remaining, especially Leo β since you've been targeting me to lynch since forever, please please consider my last two posts since I know you wouldn't want to get into D4 with 2 scums, lol.
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Sambalada
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Post by Sambalada on Dec 14, 2017 22:48:28 GMT -5
also for the record Sam still has yet to vote for me or anyone else this day phase despite stating his list of leans. Any reason for the hesitation Sam? I am scared, lol. I mean I already have a lot of suspicions thrown at my back and me leading everyone to vote for the wrong person will only make things worse.
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Sambalada
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Post by Sambalada on Dec 14, 2017 23:00:28 GMT -5
The roleblocker, whoever they are, has been doing a good job on covering their allegiance by blocking the most suspected player every day (gravey on D1, me on D2), and that leads the townpersons to think that the roleblocker is town... until last night. Come on guys, there must be a reason.
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Leo β
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Post by Leo β on Dec 14, 2017 23:08:09 GMT -5
Ill wait until Kunt gives his opiniΓ³n. I have something on my mind but I cant finish it until that
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Web
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Post by Web on Dec 14, 2017 23:13:28 GMT -5
Sambalada , you shouldn't be afraid of voting for your suspicions, you can always move your vote if someone comes up with a more convincing case on a different player. At this point there are only 4/6 players left who could possibly be mafia so if you aren't mafia then you should be voting and building a case against someone who you think is. I understand feeling overwhelmed by the pressure as a new player but I don't see why you're so scared to vote for someone else when we still have a lot of time to discuss the game and move votes around. To hopefully explain my post a bit I'll do a quick experiment and view the game from your perspective (Sam is cleared town): - Right now either a cleared town (you) is going to be lynched or you could push for someone who is a potential scum to be lynched. - I don't see why you wouldn't be pushing harder against this unless you were afraid that it would compromise you later. - You've stated a few times that you think there are two mafia (Krampus and the blocker) alive, and with only three non-cleared players (zaclord, Web, Kunt) you literally have a 2/3 shot of getting one of them lynched today. The odds are in your favor. I'm probably headed off to bed soon, looking forward to reading @touch 's analysis later.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 23:23:15 GMT -5
I'm around. Went out to celebrate a friend's engagement. Need to start some laundry, then I'm on.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 0:48:21 GMT -5
First and most important of all, everyone pray for me: I left my phone charger at work, my phone is at 20%, and I need to be up tomorrow morning in time for my flight. Anyway, this will be long: -- Next, the night actions. This can go one of two ways depending on the roleblocker, but we'll start with scum!roleblocker as I think this is the most likely scenario. greentoo's roleblock was probably a safety precaution in the event the doctor could still protect greentoo and didn't N2. By outright roleblocking him, they ensure he can't get a read and can only cast a vote. This puts town in MYLO in this scenario, so scum wouldn't care about outing the roleblocker. The problem with this is actually interpreting what the intention was here: it's safe to assume that scum was scared of risking an N3 result from greentoo, and with Sam/thewebinator looking like the most popular choices for N3 that either means scum was scared one of them would be cleared, or scared that one of them would be found guilty. At this point, I'm inclined to think one of them is scum and both can't be, but in either scenario actually getting in their heads is impossible. As far as Cynthia's NK goes... no idea what the logic is behind that and I'm not seeing any other input so I'm assuming we're all on the same page? I can't promise I'll be able to ISO these two, but I'm going to try to tomorrow at some point because I genuinely think that's the ticket. Something about Leo's being cleared, though: There is a possible scenario (depending on night action resolution) in which the roleblocker wasn't formally scum until the start of D3, but this all depends on how the faction selection resolves. This would only matter if the roleblocker was Leo, but my point is a roleblocker could have hypothetically been town during night two, submitted his block and faction shift in the same night, and only registered as "scum" from D3 onward while returning a town result N2. In this scenario, scum never had any influence over the roleblocker until now, but I'm confused as to why the roleblocker would opt to choose mafia *now* when they were down 2/3 members. I think it's safe to rule this out, even if it's possible. I don't really see a scenario in which the roleblocker is town, but given that there is a possible margin of error it's worth at least considering so... yeah? In summation: one of Sam/web are likely scum, roleblocker is probably scum as well. I hate that we've gone out of our way to establish that though, because I think this undermines the point of calling for a claim ( Web ). To the meat of things, though: -- I'm still not sure why the mafia didn't go for one of the two cleared players, it seems stupid to shrink the pool of players who you can actually set up for a mislynch. cynthia is a great player and helped the town out a lot with different ideas and scenarios, but now we're left with the final mafia being one of Kunt, zaclord, or Sam, assuming the roleblocker is still with the town. This is a good point that lends itself to a relatively novice scum team, actually, but that's meta talk more than anything. Still not worth sweeping under the rug. -- We can safely say that the roleblocker is mafia now. Like, why the f**k would a town roleblocker block a greentoo. That also means their decision was made on N2 since they blocked one of the mafias on N1. We should boot the mafia today, preferably the roleblocker.And questions. Actually, what made me suspicious in your eyes, guys? Please answer in neat sentences and I will respond as much as I can. Can you explain why you think we should prioritize the roleblocker? As far as why you're suspicious: mylo totally avoiding you altogether, general lack of content, and everything I outlined on D3. Ngl, I'm not really sure why you're bothering to ask this now but it seems rather defensive. -- Kunt read as a town for me. Az has said multiple times that he was 100% sure that Kunt is town. He said it was just his feeling, but we all know now that Az is conductor, and that could mean he had investigate Kunt earlier and Kunt is read a townperson. Right? I guess we never technically confirmed that he targeted gravey, but I agree with web: gravey was 99.9% who he investigated lol. Mostly saying that because Az was liking posts about it.-- also Leo I appreciate the idea but this might be easier: greentoo , please vote for who you investigated last night. If they were town, like your own post (the same one with the vote). If they were mafia, like this post. This strikes me as odd because I feel like you're an experienced enough player to not forget the roles, especially when roleblock has been under the microscope the entire game. Maybe you just forgot, but maybe you posted this just to make it seem like you were trying to help town out to draw attention away from yourself.This is kind of presumptuous, don't you think? I could definitely see this as suspicious in context of trying to distance himself from the roleblocker (which would confirm it as scum), but that would mean we're going into this with web as scum in the first place. I assume Sam is a stronger scum read though given your vote, correct? -- lmaoooo -- Based on how today is going, vote: Sam. As of this moment, web seems more incidentally scummy and more messy than anything. This could change with the hopeful ISO, though.
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