Web
3x Platinum Member
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 3,985
|
Post by Web on Dec 17, 2017 19:18:56 GMT -5
at the end of the day I wasn't sure if I could have moved Sam, greentoo and Leo to create a zaclord wagon (since everyone was MIA) in order to execute the foolproof plan with like 7 hours left in the day and I was 100% confident on Sam as maf so stuck on him. Didn't want to leave the town with no lynch and was too confident to consider alternatives. yeah lol Sambalada where did you go? Why didn't you vote for anyone?
|
|
Libra
Diamond Member
The One Who Knows Where All the Bodies Are Buried
:)
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 14,376
My Charts
|
Post by Libra on Dec 17, 2017 19:30:00 GMT -5
I really wish Sam would have voted for anyone D4, or appeared at all for the rest of the day (I assumed he gave up) Shouldn't have locked into tunnel-vision mode so early but after Sam made the guess about what happened N1 and was on point there was a 0% chance I was changing my vote. Town probably should have at least had one more shot at this - see the Green Room - but yeah as far as mistakes go that was a doozy. I do apologize to everyone about the balance issues. Honestly not sure I'll host one of these again, used to love hosting them but it just isn't working for me now but for anyone who wants to host in the future I definitely would like to try and play! Who knows maybe sometime down the road I'll give it another try with a co-host but not sure at this time. I don't think this game played all that badly all things considered (other than maybe a little more overall inactivity than there should have been, but that is obviously not your fault), but if you want to have your next game set-up looked over before starting it then that's cool too. In any case I think you deserve a lot of credit for managing to get Pulse Mafia going again; TBQH if anyone had told me that someone would succeed in doing so this year I would have told them they were fucking crazy (or something like that). I really was that pessimistic about people getting interested in this again. I simply suck at this game lol #bye The only way you will improve in this game is through practice! Take the lessons you learn here and use them to become a better player. The same goes for all newer/less-experience players. For instance Sam had scum figured out exactly, where he faltered was in not pushing his case more strongly/convincingly. (That said, see above - in all likelihood, this result of Town going down in flames was probably not avoidable.) I'll sit back now and see what other people have to say about this game. Oh and @touch is Cynthia's rumor accurate that you have a game waiting in the wings?
|
|
Web
3x Platinum Member
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 3,985
|
Post by Web on Dec 17, 2017 19:36:56 GMT -5
lmao just read the green room web punching bag convention edit - also idk exactly what your old ruleset was but I support moving to a "majority vote ends the day" rule in the future. The current setup makes it way too easy for people to pile onto wagons with no consequences imo, it happened a few times this game.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 19:38:24 GMT -5
Lmaoooo
Anyway I’m modding next game. Dibs. I’ll say more when I’m back home but I’m headed to a party bye
|
|
|
Post by castleoblivion26 on Dec 17, 2017 19:51:46 GMT -5
I do apologize to everyone about the balance issues. Honestly not sure I'll host one of these again, used to love hosting them but it just isn't working for me now but for anyone who wants to host in the future I definitely would like to try and play! Who knows maybe sometime down the road I'll give it another try with a co-host but not sure at this time. I don't think this game played all that badly all things considered (other than maybe a little more overall inactivity than there should have been, but that is obviously not your fault), but if you want to have your next game set-up looked over before starting it then that's cool too. In any case I think you deserve a lot of credit for managing to get Pulse Mafia going again; TBQH if anyone had told me that someone would succeed in doing so this year I would have told them they were f**king crazy (or something like that). I really was that pessimistic about people getting interested in this again. I would definitely like to have someone look over the game next time I go to do it if I ever do. I am glad that I did get these going again because I love these games and I really look forward to the chance to play! I simply suck at this game lol #bye The only way you will improve in this game is through practice! Take the lessons you learn here and use them to become a better player. The same goes for all newer/less-experience players. For instance Sam had scum figured out exactly, where he faltered was in not pushing his case more strongly/convincingly. (That said, see above - in all likelihood, this result of Town going down in flames was probably not avoidable.) I want to echo this, these games can be a lot of fun but can also be a bit overwhelming if you don't know what you are doing but if you keep playing and get used to the way the games play then you may end up enjoying them more, so I do hope everyone will give these games another try!
|
|
Sambalada
8x Platinum Member
Founder of Rankdown ca. 2016
Mmmmmmmm....
Joined: June 2016
Posts: 8,686
|
Post by Sambalada on Dec 17, 2017 20:09:32 GMT -5
Lol I didn't even bother to post towards the end of D4 because web is too stuck-up on his ass, and everything I'd say would only be read as a scum trying to defense themselves.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 21:35:53 GMT -5
I should say here (b/c I don't think I really made it clear in the green room), you're a good host castle! I think you just need to have someone there to overlook your setups as this one was imbalanced. And also it's always good to have a second set of eyes to make sure everything is correct before sending out role pms and whatnot. Leo ✔ I second the opinion that you will get better as you play more games so don't give up just yet. Sambalada for example really started clicking with the game on that last day - he's the one who immediately clocked that the roleblocker had to be scum, and would not budge from that - but unfortunately got discouraged by what was an insurmountable wagon against him and I assume that is why he didn't bother to check back in. The main thing you two are guilty of is simply that you didn't go back and read over stuff on your own. Yes, it feels tedious to re-read the same posts every 'day,' but in mafia it is important to do this because you will always find something new that you didn't pick up on before. For example if I had not reviewed the whole thread on Day 3 I would not have found that Az clue about gravey. Never trust your memory to be good enough to justify not reading. One, your memory is garbage and cannot be trusted. Two, you can't 'quote' your memory but you can quote a post, and a quoted post will always get you further when it comes to convincing other players of something. Three, reading over stuff will (hopefully) prevent you from blindly following another player who might either be well-hidden scum or a town player who is very wrong about something. If a player isn't a confirmed investigative role you should never play follow the leader with them. I openly admitted my reads on players are wrong all the time which is why I was so willing to change my theories every five minutes. As for me I am making a note to self to always think out loud because I forget to do this constantly. There was SO much s**t I didn't say on Day 3 that would have been useful on day 4. e.g., I picked up on Az's liking of posts enough to know that Sam wasn't suspicious, but didn't say it out loud, and once I was gone there was no one left to pick up on it. Toward the end of day 3 I was slowly ramping up my suspicion of zac, but not nearly enough for any player to take note and consider it. I basically left my suspicion of Kunt unspoken because he's someone that I find easier to gun for on a Day 4 than a Day 2 or 3, but I was dead by then. MVPs of the game - Kunt obviously for mafia even though tbh he wasn't hiding as well as we're giving him credit for lol; Az for town (since he is the one who left the gravey clue that kept town alive on D3).
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 21:47:25 GMT -5
Lol I didn't even bother to post towards the end of D4 because web is too stuck-up on his ass, and everything I'd say would only be read as a scum trying to defense themselves. I'm honestly surprised you didn't react with a vote on him right away, just because his actions didn't make any logical town sense. I exited D3 thinking he might be Santa, but without knowing for sure I think my first reaction on D4 would have been 'only a scum player would try to convince me that a town roleblocker would target the good elf!' *vote* Town would have been screwed over either way because of that but tbh that line of thought would have made way more sense than the 'Sam just logged in to type something, therefore he must be scum' place that web's mind reached. But web is hardly the first person to tunnel and likely won't be the last.
|
|
Web
3x Platinum Member
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 3,985
|
Post by Web on Dec 17, 2017 21:58:45 GMT -5
yeah the reason I was still stuck on the "roleblocker might be town" thing is because I thought Leo was the blocker (since he seemed to be explaining the blocker's actions) and came out swinging with his plan (trying to get greentoo to like the post with his report) at the start of the day without Leo realizing it also blocked greentoo's report.
I thought Leo was roleblocker up until zaclord's claim, and then I was too far down the tunnel to operate with any semblance of logic.
|
|
Az Paynter
Diamond Member
On Dsico's Block List™
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 110,452
|
Post by Az Paynter on Dec 17, 2017 22:16:20 GMT -5
I also said this in the rant thread green room, but for me it didn't matter who the roleblocker WAS, what was important was what they did and why. It should have been abundantly clear on D4 when Greentoo got blocked that the blocker could not possibly have been Town. Sam understood this; a Town roleblocker would NEVER cripple his faction this way, and looking back on Zac's justification for it, that is also bulls**t lol, a Town blocker would never try to block the cop because 'oh they'll be dead anyway', they would be trying to block whoever they think is Krampus to PREVENT the Cop from getting killed.
I'd like to think these were conclusions I'd come to if I were still alive at the time, and not just because I was dead and already had all the answers in the green room.
Strictly speaking, scum lost the game with their N3 actions. Process of elimination SHOULD have made the game a slam dunk. Zac got too eager D3 and his posts were shady af, which he tried to pass off as 'oh I was just getting into Gravey's scum mindset' when bish you slipped big time lmao. Kunt was absolutely harder to pin down, but Webi, between you and Sam at the beginning of D4 you could easily have blown the game wide open between you.
Sam knew: Himself, Greentoo, Leo. All he needed was to know you were the Doctor, and by process of elimination Kunt/Zac were the remaining scum. You knew: Yourself, Greentoo, Leo. With Greentoo's D4 block, you should have realized the blocker was scum, and because Sam was a victim of blocking, he was NOT the blocker. True, that still meant in theory he could have been the blocker's partner, but why would the scum blocker block their teammate? Simply put, they wouldn't. Eliminating that possibility ONLY left Zac and Kunt.
Had the two of you ended up on this path together, Leo and Greentoo would have followed you.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 22:25:02 GMT -5
I’m tipsy and this party sucks but reading the green room I’m a little miffed because a lot of posts are operating under the pretense of knowing everything. I’m actually vaguely annoyed with some things towards the end of the game lol.
But yes Cynthia is right, I didn’t hide as well as I could have but with two investigative roles and a doctor that was kind of hard. As far as the N3 night actions zac and I had a reason for that (and it worked clearly so stay mad) but yeah again I’ll go into more detail later.
Really the biggest issue with this game was the rubber band balancing, but that doesn’t make castle a bad host absolutely.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 22:27:19 GMT -5
Also about Sam: sure Sam would have had it pegged but zac and I put in work to make sure he wasn’t believable by D4. How in the world has he supposed to even argue that? “Kunt, who everyone thinks is town today, is clearly scum and I’m innocent because web is the doctor now even though I’ve been suspicious of him all day” doesn’t really work as a defense. He was doing all he could in this scenario, lol.
|
|
Libra
Diamond Member
The One Who Knows Where All the Bodies Are Buried
:)
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 14,376
My Charts
|
Post by Libra on Dec 17, 2017 22:28:29 GMT -5
From the Mafia QT: (They were thinking Cynthia was the doctor - a few posts before this give further context but no way am I quoting those wordwalls here, LOL) Sorry but this is hilarious. @antigonerising they were SO sure!
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 22:33:16 GMT -5
Oh my logic about that was because Cynthia had been on web’s dick prior, but after posting about whoever the doctor protected N1 being cleared and knowing we had tried to kill web and seeing her give him a free pass for being dumb D3 I assumed she had mentally cleared him because she knew this. Wasn’t the case but it didn’t matter anyway.
The plan was kill the doctor, block the cop so only Leo would be cleared and D4 would go in with two viable mislynch targets in web and Sam who I’d already set up as targets D3. That didn’t work obviously but on paper it was nice lmao
|
|
Libra
Diamond Member
The One Who Knows Where All the Bodies Are Buried
:)
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 14,376
My Charts
|
Post by Libra on Dec 17, 2017 22:37:36 GMT -5
With Greentoo's D4 block, you should have realized the blocker was scum, and because Sam was a victim of blocking, he was NOT the blocker. True, that still meant in theory he could have been the blocker's partner, but why would the scum blocker block their teammate? Simply put, they wouldn't. Eliminating that possibility ONLY left Zac and Kunt. You're forgetting that scum already DID block their own partner gravey N1.
|
|
Web
3x Platinum Member
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 3,985
|
Post by Web on Dec 17, 2017 23:06:49 GMT -5
^yeah a scum blocker could have easily blocked maf!gravey N1 and maf!Sam N2 to get heat off of both of them for at least a day phase. I don't see why it's so outlandish to imagine a scum blocker blocking their teammates.
It's a huge bonus for the silenced scum because they get an entire day phase where they can't say anything so can't slip at all and get to come into the next day phase saying:
"oh yeah my leans are town's current conventional wisdom but I couldn't say them because I was silenced"
|
|
Az Paynter
Diamond Member
On Dsico's Block List™
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 110,452
|
Post by Az Paynter on Dec 17, 2017 23:20:04 GMT -5
With Greentoo's D4 block, you should have realized the blocker was scum, and because Sam was a victim of blocking, he was NOT the blocker. True, that still meant in theory he could have been the blocker's partner, but why would the scum blocker block their teammate? Simply put, they wouldn't. Eliminating that possibility ONLY left Zac and Kunt. You're forgetting that scum already DID block their own partner gravey N1. That is too WIFOM-y for me. It would've been so much easier to just assume scum wouldn't be so convoluted. Sure, they WANT Town to think 'oh, maybe this' or 'maybe that' so Town confuses themselves into second-guessing things, but at the same time why would they want to handicap themselves that way, at that point in the game? Gravey was toast, blocking scum!Sam wouldn't have helped in the slightest.
|
|
Web
3x Platinum Member
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 3,985
|
Post by Web on Dec 17, 2017 23:25:38 GMT -5
You're forgetting that scum already DID block their own partner gravey N1. That is too WIFOM-y for me. It would've been so much easier to just assume scum wouldn't be so convoluted. Sure, they WANT Town to think 'oh, maybe this' or 'maybe that' so Town confuses themselves into second-guessing things, but at the same time why would they want to handicap themselves that way? gravey was already pretty compromised after his semi-scummy play D1, it made a lot of sense to block him so he couldn't be lynched D2. I would have pushed on him as a lynch target at the start of D2 (I said as much in game), but his silencing bought him an extra day of survival since he couldn't adequately defend himself. I think you're just arriving at these conclusions because you knew all of the roles from the start, if you read back at some of Sam's posts and look at his voting history D1-3 they didn't look great. His D4 was his best and it's a shame I was too far down the tunnel to realize it at that point. However if you know he's town from the start you're going to disregard the scummy-looking posts almost immediately.
|
|
Albie
Administrator
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 16,232
Staff
|
Post by Albie on Dec 17, 2017 23:37:43 GMT -5
-If Sam is town (which is such a tiny chance that it's not really worth considering imo), then either Kunt is solo mafia and he should be lynched tomorrow or it's Kunt and Zaclord and game is over with them winning anyway. Again, this is so unlikely that I'm not even sure why I wasted the time typing it out but oh well. Aww webi this post made me sad. Great game Kunt and zaclord. Congrats mafia for finally getting a win again!
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 2:27:04 GMT -5
Re: Kunt, I see now why he thought I was the doc, but it's somewhat ironic since the reason I got off web's back was because he gave himself away as the doc when you got cagey about my suggestion that we all role claim on D3. It also explained why web was so certain that greentoo would be shielded on N2; he knew that he had protected someone else N1 (namely himself - which on one hand, good, but OTOH kind of sucked b/c it rendered my 'doc should now know his N1 target is a clear' theory moot and did not help him narrow down suspects as I hoped it would). yeah the reason I was still stuck on the "roleblocker might be town" thing is because I thought Leo was the blocker (since he seemed to be explaining the blocker's actions) and came out swinging with his plan (trying to get greentoo to like the post with his report) at the start of the day without Leo realizing it also blocked greentoo's report. I thought Leo was roleblocker up until zaclord's claim, and then I was too far down the tunnel to operate with any semblance of logic. I kind of understand this because I also thought Leo was roleblocker on D3, based on him agreeing with a post that suggested the roleblocker was a town player targeting who he thought was scum. I guess you took it a step further and thought he was a roleblocker who misunderstood his role as a newbie. The problem with this however is, why would he suddenly misunderstand the full extent of his block after having already used it two nights in a row? You pretty much did this thing the entire game - you even lowkey did it a little bit with me - where once you decided someone was town or scum, you looked for ways to make their words fit your town/scum assumptions. I had problems not with your bad reads, but with you being so rigidly attached to them that you shut your brain off to any other possibilities. TBH if your only justification for this is 'well he's been looking scummy for three whole days so why would I suddenly believe him on day four, even though what he was saying makes sense if I could be bothered to consider it' then that says more about your player faults than his? You came off as if you had no use for any views that differed from your own, and it sunk the ship. There's just no way around that. But again...you aren't the first and won't be the last. I'm definitely guilty of getting caught up in a blindspot or three which is why I played the way I did this time. I'm trying to get away from that. And yes, Az is somewhat grilling you b/c he knew that Sam was town, but we're both grilling you more so because you made a simple logic fail that has nothing to do with how scummy any player in particular looked (which ftr, I do not think Sam's post/vote history looked any scummier than mine, and I missed all of Day 1! Nor was he playing any worse than Leo, who until greentoo cleared him was high on the suspect list). It's the way you reached your conclusion more than the conclusion itself.
|
|
greentoo
Gold Member
Joined: January 2017
Posts: 648
|
Post by greentoo on Dec 18, 2017 2:41:34 GMT -5
Thanks Castle so much for hosting! I’m glad I got to have such a fun first game. I hope I can learn from my mistakes in here and improve for the next game.
|
|
Libra
Diamond Member
The One Who Knows Where All the Bodies Are Buried
:)
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 14,376
My Charts
|
Post by Libra on Dec 18, 2017 23:30:08 GMT -5
Lmaoooo Anyway I’m modding next game. Dibs. I’ll say more when I’m back home but I’m headed to a party bye
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 10:36:28 GMT -5
Bitch I’m busy I’m on vacation
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 14:49:17 GMT -5
Ok i have a minute.
So fist the balancing: the roleblocker role makes this game almost bastard in nature because of how volatile it was. Built-in choose your own wincon, the ability to mislead the cop depending on when they’re investigated and when they choose a side, and the potential to end the game N1 for scum. For this reason alone I’m inclined to think that the game was way too favorable to scum, but all three power roles making into D2 tipped it in town’s favor. Idc if the doctor can’t target consecutively: two investigative roles and a doctor almost royally f**ked over mafia this game and the only reason they got two correct was because of the investigative roles (would have had a third had the doctor been anyone else other than web imo). Keep in mind that doctor can clear players who get protected from a kill, so like... yeah lmao the green room taking about me cutting people was spot on. Gravey and mylo both had to go, but thank god they were good sports about it. You guys nailed it. Anyway, if you’re hitting the point in the game where scum is having to micro-analyze every exchange trying to figure out who has what role because they’re going to get f**ked by default that’s not really fair because although they aren’t out in the open and can kill, they’re still inherently outnumbered. TL;DR y’all can stay mad that me and zac were apparently obvious and web didn’t notice this, but that’s also saying me and zac played like s**t and placed the responsibility of town’s success or failure entirely on web—neither of those are fair. Again, when y’all know absolutely everything it’s easy to point out why stuff should be obvious. If it really was that easy then most of these games wouldn’t end with a scum victory as they usually do, lmao. Not saying everyone played a perfect game either, but the game wasn’t as messy as the greenroom makes it out to be.
I also cannot tell you how salty I was that Az was liking posts about investigating gravey. If THAT didnt inehrently break the game idk what did; but also castle confirming how the alignment switch with the roleblocker worked was kind of unnecessary because bro it’s the responsibility of the roleblocker to explain their role when they claim and it’s a way for scum to actually hide accurately. That really irritated me at the time, lol, especially because it definitely wasn’t (or shouldnt have been) hard-confirmed that gravey was investigated. It wasn’t very likely, but with Az dead and him making conflicting statements (gravey is 100% scum, I’m 100% town) town getting confused is not THAT implausible. That also goes for the green room yelling at everyone: even if Sam was wrong he was at least reading back and honestly this should’ve been the moment he looked town more than anything. Up until he stopped giving a f**k he was easily the most engaged person in the room. I just find it weird everyone got all in their feelings because that was confirmed when it wasn’t, and even if it was let’s five credit where’s its due: good on Sam for getting into it at the time even as a new player.
As far as my gameplay one of my biggest mistakes was probably not being assertive enough. The game would’ve gone very differently had I not stopped giving a f**k after everyone wanted to kill web even though I said like 5 posts earlier he’d be the likely doctor target anyway. Didn’t want to come across as controlling since I have a habit of doing that, lol. Also should have been paying more attention to my teammates—when I sajd mylo was parroting everyone on D2, i really hoped nobody would check that because the person he specifically parroted almost word for word was me and it was super obvious. Once he was lynched everyone let that be, thank god, but it could’ve been very bad. Agreed zac had spoken too much about being the roleblocker but we’d set it up that by D4 it wouldn’t have matter if he flipped anyway and we had everyone convinced he was town by D3 too, so I’m not inclined to say it was a bad move. If anything he made the play of the game by figuring out Az was the conductor.
—
As for the new game, expect it to start after New Years. Will have a set cap for players and a predetermined setup, which will be introductory level and straightforward. Not all roles will be random, depending on the signup list. We will be reverting back to the old ruleset, and safe claims in role PMs will be provided.
I’ll explain in greater detail when I’m back home tomorrow in the main thread.
|
|
Albie
Administrator
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 16,232
Staff
|
Post by Albie on Dec 19, 2017 15:16:53 GMT -5
No wonder you've been at a party since 2 days ago.
but for real, I'll be ready for the new game! Your mafia games are always a riot.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 15:32:23 GMT -5
I haven’t been sober for more than 4 hours since Friday
|
|
Web
3x Platinum Member
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 3,985
|
Post by Web on Dec 19, 2017 18:40:25 GMT -5
A few final thoughts, my biggest (somewhat obvious) lesson from this game is to not to take assumptions that aren't 100% proven for granted regardless of how confident you feel about them, since there was still a pretty good chance town could have won the game if I had pushed for lynching zaclord. Idk if Sam, greentoo and Leo would have all been online and active to switch votes but it was definitely better than sitting out the last 8 hours of the game without trying it. I completely planned out a foolproof scenario for a town victory based on the current state of the game but then ignored it because I guess I wanted the game to end quicker? Definitely won't let that happen again lol I didn't read back through the thread enough this game and do deep dives/ISOs on players compared to last game. Last game that helped me clear Galaxy Girl and narrow the final maf team to lynch Codex. Was a combination of finals stealing a lot of my time and less motivation to engage with the game this time around for some reason. I think overall inactivity was a problem for town and since everyone was not that active, Kunt and zaclord could also relax and hide out more during day phases. (zaclord especially took advantage of this). I didn't feel like tagging everyone every 5 hours to try and get the town started again and tuned out, and when I came back in relied on my previous assumptions rather than forming new leads. Looking forward to your game @touch , probably will be my last for at least a little while since next semester is going to be crazy busy for me. (thankfully don't go back until late January) Thanks again for hosting these castleoblivion26 , I hadn't played forum mafia in a year or two before you brought these back to Pulse and I've had a blast getting back into it, looking forward to seeing your playstyle next game! Also belated apologies to willapted33 for lynching you D1 on very limited info (probably confusing the s**t out of you lol) and of course to Sambalada for D4, hopefully both of you will play again in the future!
|
|