Billboard Hot 100: 12/30/2017

[Gary]

Dec 18, 2017 21:34:49 GMT -5 Libra said:

Dec 18, 2017 21:19:04 GMT -5 Gary said:

If 2017 rules apply to 1994 - Album tracks chart without airplay, generates more exposure for the song, perhaps gets played more and pressure gets put on the label to release a single

In other words, a whole lot of "if"s. This rests so much on speculation/things that could not be guaranteed that I simply cannot buy into the assertion.

Not just wild speculation. An educated assumption.  Limited singles were released all the time during that era.

But regardless - see my previous post.

I believe this song already would have already been top 10 if the rules over 23 year had been applied consistently.

If that is wrong, then by reaching a new peak,  it really has reached a new level of popularity unseen since it came out in 1994  (the last part of that sentence, implied by the new peak)


Pick one

Anyway - it is #9 this week.   Holiday songs in general rarely get that high, so it is fun to see.

[jenglisbe]

Dec 18, 2017 21:33:06 GMT -5 Gary said:

Dec 18, 2017 21:21:41 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Show me one person who has said people are just now/finally catching onto the song.

Pick one:

My original point - This song is finally top ten due primarily to looser rule changes over time for Christmas songs rather than an increase in popularity, as this song has always been big 

Or: This song is finally top ten after 23 years and reached a new level of popularity and a chart position not seen in the prior 23 years


You decide.    

Not interested in a pointless argument

That example doesn't prove your point at all. Saying people are "just now" catching onto the song implies it wasn't popular before. The post you quote mentions it reaching "a new level of popularity," which actually implies it was already popular (so people had already caught on). I don't think there's any denying the song is more popular now than it was in the 90s. That dosn't mean it was unknown in the 90s, though.

[brady47]

I wonder how many top 10 weeks AIWFCIY would've gotten since 1994.

It has to be one of her biggest worldwide hits after "Without You".

[Gary]

Dec 18, 2017 21:45:02 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Dec 18, 2017 21:33:06 GMT -5 Gary said:

Pick one:

My original point - This song is finally top ten due primarily to looser rule changes over time for Christmas songs rather than an increase in popularity, as this song has always been big 

Or: This song is finally top ten after 23 years and reached a new level of popularity and a chart position not seen in the prior 23 years


You decide.    

Not interested in a pointless argument

That example doesn't prove your point at all. Saying people are "just now" catching onto the song implies it wasn't popular before. The post you quote mentions it reaching "a new level of popularity," which actually implies it was already popular (so people had already caught on). I don't think there's any denying the song is more popular now than it was in the 90s. That dosn't mean it was unknown in the 90s, though.

Pick one - it is either one or the other.

Sometime these discussions that go more than a couple posts tend to get fixated on words that were not part of what I was originally trying to say.

This is how arguments start.   Not interested.

But hey - #9 this week, holiday songs rarely get this high in any generation and under any rules or any era.  Fun to see.

Now...On with the countdown.....   :))

[Deleted]

There is nothing to debate the greatest Christmas song by the queen of Christmas and my mother!!! Tonight is about celebration. Coco is back!!! We are back on the billboard charts hoes! YassssssT slaymequeen!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Virgin mother du queen!

[mako]

Dec 17, 2017 18:08:58 GMT -5 Soulsista said:

01 01 I Will Always Love You - Whitney Houston 6th of 14 weeks at #1)

Wait, Whitney Houston sung that? All my life i thought it was Janet Jackson      

[forg]

Looking at the Holiday songs chart, three modern holiday songs could potentially be a yearly staple as well: Ariana Grande's Santa Tell Me, Justin Bieber's Mistletoe and Kelly Clarkson's Underneath the Tree. Time will tell of course

[Spidey]

Dec 18, 2017 23:29:27 GMT -5 forg said:

Looking at the Holiday songs chart, three modern holiday songs could potentially be a yearly staple as well: Ariana Grande's Santa Tell Me, Justin Bieber's Mistletoe and Kelly Clarkson's Underneath the Tree. Time will tell of course

I've been hearing this song a lot this holiday season.

[Libra]

Dec 18, 2017 21:49:47 GMT -5 Gary said:

Sometime these discussions that go more than a couple posts tend to get fixated on words that were not part of what I was originally trying to say.

This is how arguments start.   Not interested.

But hey - #9 this week, holiday songs rarely get this high in any generation and under any rules or any era.  Fun to see.

Dec 18, 2017 20:15:08 GMT -5 Libra said:

Of course, since 2005 was her big comeback year then in all likelihood that would also have been the year it would have racked up enough sales to go Top 10. (And very likely higher up than #9 - didn't someone post earlier in this thread that it topped Digital Songs during the 2005 holiday season?)

That being said it HAS had wider recognition as a holiday classic now than it has had previously, so I do think that justifies saying that it has indeed reached a new level of popularity independent of strict chart say-so (but still reflected in its hitting the Top 10).

[85la]

I hope AIWFCIY stays in the top ten next week, and all logistical signs indicate it will, as it's the last full week before Christmas when all the metrics will be counted, and it doesn't seem to be losing points anywhere. The following week will be weird though, because it will get 4 days up to and including Christmas day for sales and streaming, but only one day (Christmas day) of airplay, so it will drop significantly, but hopefully it will stay on the chart.

[Deleted]

Dec 18, 2017 23:16:50 GMT -5 mako said:

Dec 17, 2017 18:08:58 GMT -5 Soulsista said:

01 01 I Will Always Love You - Whitney Houston 6th of 14 weeks at #1)

Wait, Whitney Houston sung that? All my life i thought it was Janet Jackson      

Wow someone actually said that? Wasn't the fact it was sung and belted out and not whispered a giveaway? Janet could dance her ass of to that song but I'm sorry what's is going on with Dem ears "soul" "sista"

[Gary]

Dec 19, 2017 0:18:07 GMT -5 Libra said:

Dec 18, 2017 21:49:47 GMT -5 Gary said:

Sometime these discussions that go more than a couple posts tend to get fixated on words that were not part of what I was originally trying to say.

This is how arguments start.   Not interested.

But hey - #9 this week, holiday songs rarely get this high in any generation and under any rules or any era.  Fun to see.

Dec 18, 2017 20:15:08 GMT -5 Libra said:

Of course, since 2005 was her big comeback year then in all likelihood that would also have been the year it would have racked up enough sales to go Top 10. (And very likely higher up than #9 - didn't someone post earlier in this thread that it topped Digital Songs during the 2005 holiday season?)

That being said it HAS had wider recognition as a holiday classic now than it has had previously, so I do think that justifies saying that it has indeed reached a new level of popularity independent of strict chart say-so (but still reflected in its hitting the Top 10).

So it has reached a new level of popularity this year and has now finally taken its rightful place in the top ten

It was denied entry in the top ten for twenty two years because it was never really as big as it is now

Fine

[felipe]

Dec 18, 2017 21:33:06 GMT -5 Gary said:

Dec 18, 2017 21:21:41 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Show me one person who has said people are just now/finally catching onto the song.

Pick one:

My original point - This song is finally top ten due primarily to looser rule changes over time for Christmas songs rather than an increase in popularity, as this song has always been big 

Or: This song is finally top ten after 23 years and reached a new level of popularity and a chart position not seen in the prior 23 years


You decide.    

Not interested in a pointless argument

What are the rule changes that made it possible for it to chart this year but not last year?

[mako]

(12/30/17)

6. MotorSport (+9)
9. All I Want For Christmas Is Peace On The Hot 100 Threads You (+2)
12. Gummo (+1)
14. New Rules (+3)
16. Let You Down (+6)
19. I Fall Apart (+4)
23. Shape Of You (+2)
24. The Way Life Goes (+5)
25. Love. (+2)
28. Meant To Be (+3)
30. Silence (+3)
34. Rockin' Around The Christmas Tree (+3)
35. It's The Most Wonderful Time Of The Year (+10)
37. ...Ready For It? (+6)
38. The Christmas Song (+4)
41. A Holly Jolly Christmas (+6)
44. Last Christmas (RE)
47. Humble. (+3)
50. Kooda (+11)
51. Roll In Peace (+5)
54. Like I Loved You (+8)
58. Lemon (+2)
59. Lights Down Low (+7)
60. I'll Name The Dogs (+3)
61. Never Be The Same (NEW)
67. Go Legend (NEW)
72. Dark Knight Dummo (NEW)
77. My Dawg (NEW)
80. Pull Up N Wreck (RE)
82. Danger (NEW)
86. Untouchable (NEW)
92. Marry Me (+5)
93. No Smoke (RE)
95. Five More Minutes (+3)
99. Legends (RE)

SPOILER: Click to show

{My Opinion}
Humble has literally went 46-48-50-49-50-48-50-47
Die already

[Deleted]

Dec 19, 2017 6:10:23 GMT -5 mako said:

50. Kooda (+11)

I can just see the comments on tomorrow's TheTesteeTop50 upload.

"I just started the video and it started with 6ix9ine?! Smh America making no talent rappers famous 🤦‍♂️"

[imbondz]

Dec 19, 2017 6:19:08 GMT -5 Codex said:

Dec 18, 2017 21:34:49 GMT -5 Libra said:

In other words, a whole lot of "if"s. This rests so much on speculation/things that could not be guaranteed that I simply cannot buy into the assertion.

Who’s to say that this wouldn’t have applied for countless other songs, blocking Mariah from the top 10 even after a physical single release?

Great point. I think both are happening - new chart rules / streaming, and it’s reaching new levels of popularity.

[mako]

Dec 19, 2017 7:28:44 GMT -5 @statemusix said:

Dec 19, 2017 6:10:23 GMT -5 mako said:

50. Kooda (+11)

I can just see the comments on tomorrow's TheTesteeTop50 upload.

"I just started the video and it started with 6ix9ine?! Smh America making no talent rappers famous 🤦‍♂️"

hmmm, are you that trilogy trilogy trilogy guy on youtube

[boysilver400]

HUMBLE. can keep doing what it’s doing

[𝓲𝓽'𝓼.𝓰𝓿]

Dec 19, 2017 6:10:23 GMT -5 mako said:

(12/30/17)

6. MotorSport (+9)
9. All I Want For Christmas Is Peace On The Hot 100 Threads You (+2)
12. Gummo (+1)
14. New Rules (+3)
16. Let You Down (+6)
19. I Fall Apart (+4)
23. Shape Of You (+2)
24. The Way Life Goes (+5)
25. Love. (+2)
28. Meant To Be (+3)
30. Silence (+3)
34. Rockin' Around The Christmas Tree (+3)
35. It's The Most Wonderful Time Of The Year (+10)
37. ...Ready For It? (+6)
38. The Christmas Song (+4)
41. A Holly Jolly Christmas (+6)
44. Last Christmas (RE)
47. Humble. (+3)
50. Kooda (+11)
51. Roll In Peace (+5)
54. Like I Loved You (+8)
58. Lemon (+2)
59. Lights Down Low (+7)
60. I'll Name The Dogs (+3)
61. Never Be The Same (NEW)
67. Go Legend (NEW)
72. Dark Knight Dummo (NEW)
77. My Dawg (NEW)
80. Pull Up N Wreck (RE)
82. Danger (NEW)
86. Untouchable (NEW)
92. Marry Me (+5)
93. No Smoke (RE)
95. Five More Minutes (+3)
99. Legends (RE)

SPOILER: Click to show

{My Opinion}
Humble has literally went 46-48-50-49-50-48-50-47
Die already

If the song in bold has succeeded in the US Hot 100, I'd would definitely love to see that happen.  :)

P.S. Other songs from Bright: The Album should enter, especially World Gone Mad  :))

[jenglisbe]

Dec 19, 2017 0:56:00 GMT -5 85la said:

I hope AIWFCIY stays in the top ten next week, and all logistical signs indicate it will, as it's the last full week before Christmas when all the metrics will be counted, and it doesn't seem to be losing points anywhere. The following week will be weird though, because it will get 4 days up to and including Christmas day for sales and streaming, but only one day (Christmas day) of airplay, so it will drop significantly, but hopefully it will stay on the chart.

It didn't do as well in streams and downloads this past weekend as it had done the first two weekends of December. Airplay will rise more, though. As of now it will probably maintain about the same chart points, so it's more about whether other songs rise/fall. Of course, it could rise in streams as the week goes on as Christmas nears (its pattern has been to decline during the week and rise on the weekend).

[mako]

Biggest Radio Gains 12/19/17

2. (=) PERFECT - ED SHEERAN 163.635 (+2.586)
5. (=) BAD AT LOVE - HALSEY 123.373 (+2.023)
19. (+2) END GAME - TAYLOR SWIFT F/FUTURE & ED SHEERAN 58.891 (+1.882)
64. (+2) HIM & I - G-EAZY & HALSEY 30.204 (+1.747)
9. (+1) NEW RULES - DUA LIPA 87.764 (+1.613)
23. (+3) WOLVES - SELENA GOMEZ X MARSHMELLO 55.371 (+1.197)
74. (+2) PLAIN JANE - A$AP FERG 26.380 (+1.171)
17. (=) LIKE I LOVED YOU - BRETT YOUNG 64.950 (+1.106)
211. (+31) NEVER BE THE SAME - CAMILA CABELLO 7.458 (+1.038)
256. (+30) RIVER - EMINEM F/ED SHEERAN 6.026 (+0.893)
80. (+3) MEANT TO BE - BEBE REXHA F/F.G.L. 23.710 (+0.862)

[renfield75]

I really hope "Last Christmas" can finally make the top 40 this year.

[Baby Yoda Hot100Fan]

^Next week we'll find out ... I also think the whole top 10 of Holiday Songs could be in the Hot 100.

[Deleted]

Waiting for 6IX9INE to drop KEKE, GUMMO probably won't hit Top 10 at this point, happy to see it at #12 though

[Deleted]

Dec 18, 2017 16:37:26 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Dec 18, 2017 14:37:01 GMT -5 @mello said:

"Ed Sheeran with Beyonce or Andrea Bocelli" since they are both "with"

Why would Bocelli get an official credit when remixes for songs like "Unforgettable" and "Havana" didn't get the guest artist a credit?

It comes down to numbers and ratios, and I suspect things have changed since streaming came into play.  If a version of the song that includes another artist is a significant source of points for the week, then they credit that artist(s).  In this case, both the Beyonce and Andrea Bocelli versions are selling well enough to give both credit next week.  It looks like Beyonce remained credited this week despite a sales dip (although still top 10) with the duet's strong streaming numbers, and it looks like it's still doing really well there.  

I don't have figures in front of me, but I can only assume that the remixes you mentioned didn't contribute enough points to warrant credit.  

I personally can't recall a situation since streaming happened where a 2nd version of a song did this well in both sales and streaming without the artist getting credit.  It's hard for me to have a problem with Beyonce getting credit for a 2nd week when it's still top 10 on both iTunes and Spotify.  (Currently, Voice songs have invaded the top 10, pushing it down to #18, yet remains green.)

[leonagwen]

www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/8071011/billboard-chart-magazine-dates-release-week-change?utm_source=twitter

[Deleted]

I personally think streaming is making it possible for holiday songs to chart so well on the Hot 100 in recent years - and increasingly so. It allows for many people to play their favorite holiday songs without having to buy them individually. I know - duh, right? I'm just saying - that's a big deal for many and it's being proven as streaming becomes increasingly widespread.  Same goes for all these trendy viral hip-hop hits.  I don't think they'd be doing as well if they were only available via individual purchase.

The differences between way back then and now are very significant, so it's charting or not charting is all just technicality for me. I remember AIWFCIY being EXTREMELY popular upon its release and the inability to buy it as a single at retail was a major hot button. It went for many years as a radio-only track (unless you bought the album), so it at least seemed less popular, and maybe due to availability it was.  Then iTunes came into play in the 00s and it started showing its popularity again. Now, with streaming and its continued growth as a platform, it's all engines go for holiday songs... and will only get better for awhile as the platform reaches more people.

I'm of the opinion that AIWFCIY could have easily been a Hot 100 #1 in 94 (maybe even 95 and 96, too) with a commercial release. I witnessed the demand, and it was huge.

[KeepDeanWeird]

Dec 19, 2017 11:23:53 GMT -5 leonagwen said:

www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/8071011/billboard-chart-magazine-dates-release-week-change?utm_source=twitter

It only took 2.5+ years since the release date change. I never understood the logic of 'print' aka newsstand date in this era.

[Deleted]

Dec 19, 2017 11:40:52 GMT -5 KeepDeanWeird said:

Dec 19, 2017 11:23:53 GMT -5 leonagwen said:

www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/8071011/billboard-chart-magazine-dates-release-week-change?utm_source=twitter

It only took 2.5+ years since the release date change. I never understood the logic of 'print' aka newsstand date in this era.

I didn't understand the logic either.

Finally they are changing the date to the Saturday immediately following the Tuesday reveal.  'Bout time!

[badrobot]

I still am dumbfounded why they didn't align airplay tracking with sales and streaming.