raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on Jul 27, 2018 12:13:40 GMT -5
I don't find the callout scores very flawed or dishonest. I at least don't think the callout is rigged against female voices. I will say a lot of people I've talked too don't like female voices at all in country music. Which while I don't per se agree with, I do think there is at least a good amount of country music fans who can't stand female voices and are anti female voices/don't care for women to succeed. That's because when radio listeners are being fed music that 95% of the time is sung by men, the female voices stand out, usually not in a good way. That's what .indulgecountry was talking about -- the listening audience has been conditioned to like men more than women, because that's basically all they hear. True but I felt like indulge was implying the casual radio listners line of thinking was wrong, which I don't agree with and understand and don't dislike their line of thinking.
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jhomes87
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Post by jhomes87 on Jul 27, 2018 12:27:32 GMT -5
That's because when radio listeners are being fed music that 95% of the time is sung by men, the female voices stand out, usually not in a good way. That's what .indulgecountry was talking about -- the listening audience has been conditioned to like men more than women, because that's basically all they hear. True but I felt like indulge was implying the casual radio listners line of thinking was wrong, which I don't agree with and understand and don't dislike their line of thinking. I don't really think it's about right and wrong here. People are free to like or dislike what/who they want. It's more about conditioning, and when someone has been conditioned, they're likely to be biased. For example, if you grew up with parents who are politically conservative/republican, you're more likely to be conservative as well (doesn't mean all kids with conservative parents will be conservative, but it's more likely that they'll lean conservative rather than liberal). If you grew up in a Christian family, you're more likely to have Christian beliefs than Buddhist ones. And if you listen to the radio and hear only male voices, you're more likely to think that male artists are better or more popular than female artists. Those examples aren't perfect analogies, but hopefully you see what I'm saying. My main point is that country radio has been playing music by men almost exclusively for so long now that anything that sounds a little different (such as a song with female vocals) is going to stick out like a sore thumb.
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14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on Jul 27, 2018 12:58:43 GMT -5
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Post by travelrocks24 on Jul 28, 2018 18:21:38 GMT -5
is it possible that callouts are not an accurate way to determine whether a song will do well or not? What is the sample size of callouts? Callout is seriously flawed and typically skews in favor of the safer, simply radio fodder, and heavily in favor of anything with male lead vocals. Women tend to test pretty poorly, even the successful ones, because the handful of people feeding into that research are now conditioned against hearing female voices on the radio. Unfortunately, radio does seem to allow the callout research to dictate what they play more than they probably should, over other factors like how a song is connecting in streams/sales. Thanks for the response and I read what followed.
I find it hard believe that people are not interested in female artists. If you want to make a streaming argument, look at Sandra Lynn on Spotify. I doubt radio is playing her, unless she found a way to boost her numbers, she has 2 songs with over half a million streams, but radio hasn't given her the time of day (other than The Highway and Radio Disney).
But back to the song at hand, I think Carrie released this too early. Granted, she will sell albums come September, but I am not sure she will sell as many as a later release would have provided.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Jul 28, 2018 19:29:30 GMT -5
It's taken me longer to warm up to Cry Pretty than any other Carrie Underwood single. Hell, I was hooked on her last single, Dirty Laundry practically on first listen. I am excluding The Fighter as that was a Keith Urban single. That said, I could listen to that duet all day long versus Cry Pretty. I hope the second single really gets Underwood back on track.
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Anticonformity
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Post by Anticonformity on Jul 29, 2018 4:55:05 GMT -5
It's taken me longer to warm up to Cry Pretty than any other Carrie Underwood single. Hell, I was hooked on her last single, Dirty Laundry practically on first listen. I am excluding The Fighter as that was a Keith Urban single. That said, I could listen to that duet all day long versus Cry Pretty. I hope the second single really gets Underwood back on track. So. SO. SO AGREE!
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Post by Carriefan1190 on Jul 29, 2018 18:44:47 GMT -5
Once Keith peaks on Monday, Capitol/UMG better put everything they have into this, and at least get a top 5 peak. The song is basically stagnant and as a result, older songs are starting to pass her. I think they should’ve released the album in July or August. September is too far away and this is almost dead, so they’ll have to release a second single to keep the buzz going.
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raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on Jul 29, 2018 18:59:08 GMT -5
I'm looking at the chart and assuming CCUSA co-host schedule sticks. I expect 3 to 4 weeks left of promo for this song. I think within the next month, "Cry Pretty" will get a Top 5, but maintaining that Top 3 streak is going to be hard.
I will say this as well. That when an A-list artist has a flop or an underwhelming performing single, it always shows a crack in the armor. Sometimes artists pivot right back (Jason Aldean), but othertimes the first flop leads to inconsistent radio success (Brad Paisley, Lady Antebellum). I do think Carrie Underwood will be more of a Jason Aldean than a Lady Antebellum. Just interesting to note I guess.
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Post by Carriefan1190 on Jul 29, 2018 20:27:58 GMT -5
I'm looking at the chart and assuming CCUSA co-host schedule sticks. I expect 3 to 4 weeks left of promo for this song. I think within the next month, "Cry Pretty" will get a Top 5, but maintaining that Top 3 streak is going to be hard. I will say this as well. That when an A-list artist has a flop or an underwhelming performing single, it always shows a crack in the armor. Sometimes artists pivot right back (Jason Aldean), but othertimes the first flop leads to inconsistent radio success (Brad Paisley, Lady Antebellum). I do think Carrie Underwood will be more of a Jason Aldean than a Lady Antebellum. Just interesting to note I guess. Honestly, if CP ends up peaking in the top 5 and being her worst performing single, then she’s not doing too badly, especially when you consider that she’s being doing this for 13 years now. Carrie is at the point in her career where there’s nothing left to prove and she can just make the music she wants to make. Plus, I’ve started to accept that at age 35, she probably will start declining as far as radio plays go, but she has already started to cement her legacy.
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14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on Jul 29, 2018 20:46:07 GMT -5
I will say this as well. That when an A-list artist has a flop or an underwhelming performing single, it always shows a crack in the armor. Sometimes artists pivot right back (Jason Aldean), but othertimes the first flop leads to inconsistent radio success (Brad Paisley, Lady Antebellum). I do think Carrie Underwood will be more of a Jason Aldean than a Lady Antebellum. Just interesting to note I guess. Hasn’t Luke Bryan peaked at #5 a bunch of times, at the height of his success? This kind of sweeping generalization is rooted in certain examples; not consistent patterns. Anyways, she won’t be a Jason Aldean or a Lady Antebellum; she’ll be a Carrie Underwood. At this point in her career, she has arguably the best track record at country radio out of literally any other artist in the history of the genre. She isn’t a comparison to anyone or their chart success. She’s the one everyone else gets compared to.
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gardyfan
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Post by gardyfan on Jul 29, 2018 21:21:26 GMT -5
LOL Luke has had 2 songs not get to #1 on the Airlplay chart. And one them did top the Hot Country Songs Chart.
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raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on Jul 29, 2018 22:03:10 GMT -5
I will say this as well. That when an A-list artist has a flop or an underwhelming performing single, it always shows a crack in the armor. Sometimes artists pivot right back (Jason Aldean), but othertimes the first flop leads to inconsistent radio success (Brad Paisley, Lady Antebellum). I do think Carrie Underwood will be more of a Jason Aldean than a Lady Antebellum. Just interesting to note I guess. Hasn’t Luke Bryan peaked at #5 a bunch of times, at the height of his success? This kind of sweeping generalization is rooted in certain examples; not consistent patterns. Anyways, she won’t be a Jason Aldean or a Lady Antebellum; she’ll be a Carrie Underwood. At this point in her career, she has arguably the best track record at country radio out of literally any other artist in the history of the genre. She isn’t a comparison to anyone or their chart success. She’s the one everyone else gets compared to. No. Someone correct me if I am wrong but Luke Bryan has yet to have a song miss the Top 3 since "Do I". My point was that when an A-list artist has a dud or an underperformer. They bounce back like Jason Aldean did with post "1994". Or go Lady Antebellum where the success really starts to slow down and get more scarce. I think that Carrie Underwood would be more of a Jason Aldean in the sense that this song underperforms a bit with radio and than she'll just bounce back with the second single from the album. I mean I'll compare Carrie Underwood to whoever I want because she should not be and while she has had more years in success. I do consider her, Luke Bryan, Jason Aldean as essentially equals more or less in terms of A-list status since all broke out pretty big within about 5 years of each other. She hasn't really had a big hit since I'd say "Something In The Water" and since she was on it as a feature I will give partial credit to "The Fighter". Meanwhile Luke Bryan has had very successful big hit singles in the last few years "Kick The Dust Up", "Huntin Fishing Loving Every Day", and "Most People Are Good", all come to mind (Just for the record I consider big hit singlr to be the stuff that is in contention for the year end list all genre, so it goes beyond a radio #1 peak), and with Jason Aldean he arguably has like just taken a stranglehold as one of the Top artists in the genre with both of his singles this year just being massive it seems like. Like none of Carrie Underwood's own solo music the last couple of years has felt big. They just come and go in terms of impact it seems like, not an undeserving #1 with radio. But nothing that will be remembered even 3 years from the general public. Carrie Underwood is not immune from comparison to other artists especially A-listers. She just isn't in my eyes. I do see where you are coming from, I just don't agree at all.
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14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on Jul 30, 2018 0:59:39 GMT -5
LOL Luke has had 2 songs not get to #1 on the Airlplay chart. And one them did top the Hot Country Songs Chart. Ah! I was looking at his Billboard charts. My b.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Jul 30, 2018 6:36:45 GMT -5
Country Girl Shake It For Me peaked at #4 in 2011.
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raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on Jul 30, 2018 6:45:56 GMT -5
Country Girl Shake It For Me peaked at #4 in 2011. Oh wow. I just assumed with how massive that was, it got Top 3 at least with radio. Well at least post "Country Girl Shake It For Me" Luke Bryan has yet to miss the Top 3 which while not as impressive as Carrie Underwood is nothing to scoff at.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 6:58:01 GMT -5
I honestly think that this era is about more about Carrie personally, than professionally. She's making the music for her and her fans, not as much for radio (although, they'll obviously still try for hits). I feel she's experiencing more freedom in her work with the label switch and we'll see that more when the album comes out.
Personally, I would rather her have incredible songs that only make the top 10, than predictable songs that reach #1. She's already carved out her place in country history, so she's really got nothing left to prove. I'm excited to hear this album. Just a month and half!
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austin
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Post by austin on Jul 30, 2018 7:16:33 GMT -5
I think everyone's dream with A list artists is they start to experiment and focus on quality more than commercial success. If Carrie is doing that, it's all anyone could ask for. I just hope it means true quality and not snoozers like this song.
The only people that care about the Top 3 streak are her diehard fans. Unless it is a #1 streak, you'd be how surprised how little that kind of stuff matters to an artist versus connecting with their fans and producing work they are proud of. Whether it is my cup of tea or not, I think Carrie is extremely passionate about this project, and that is what matters for her. I do hope the second single is more radio friendly, though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 8:23:58 GMT -5
I think everyone's dream with A list artists is they start to experiment and focus on quality more than commercial success. If Carrie is doing that, it's all anyone could ask for. I just hope it means true quality and not snoozers like this song. The only people that care about the Top 3 streak are her diehard fans. Unless it is a #1 streak, you'd be how surprised how little that kind of stuff matters to an artist versus connecting with their fans and producing work they are proud of. Whether it is my cup of tea or not, I think Carrie is extremely passionate about this project, and that is what matters for her. I do hope the second single is more radio friendly, though. I love this song, so if the album overall was similar, I wouldn't mind. I am a diehard fan of hers, and I'd definitely like to see the streak continue, but I know realistically it can't go on forever, and I'm okay with that. She's had an unprecedented run of top 3s and top 10s (which is still going at the very least). But, I definitely agree, that this project seems more important than any other one she's creating. Hopefully, it will make the industry (mostly the country industry) take more notice of her as a deeper more serious artist. She's building on her legacy at this point, and that's exciting.
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robrt30
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Post by robrt30 on Jul 30, 2018 15:07:46 GMT -5
I'm looking at the chart and assuming CCUSA co-host schedule sticks. I expect 3 to 4 weeks left of promo for this song. I think within the next month, "Cry Pretty" will get a Top 5, but maintaining that Top 3 streak is going to be hard. I will say this as well. That when an A-list artist has a flop or an underwhelming performing single, it always shows a crack in the armor. Sometimes artists pivot right back (Jason Aldean), but othertimes the first flop leads to inconsistent radio success (Brad Paisley, Lady Antebellum). I do think Carrie Underwood will be more of a Jason Aldean than a Lady Antebellum. Just interesting to note I guess. Honestly, if CP ends up peaking in the top 5 and being her worst performing single, then she’s not doing too badly, especially when you consider that she’s being doing this for 13 years now. Carrie is at the point in her career where there’s nothing left to prove and she can just make the music she wants to make. Plus, I’ve started to accept that at age 35, she probably will start declining as far as radio plays go, but she has already started to cement her legacy. I had been thinking about this recently (for the past month or so) myself, although that's not a whole lot of comparable data that can be applied in the current era of country radio. There used to be a relatively firm age where radio airplay would predictably decline, but I think whatever age that is, that bar is moving higher and higher -- and that's probably due to the age of country radio listeners getting older and older too. Kenny Chesney and Keith Urban are both 50, and they're still going strong. Luke Bryan is 42, and he's as sure fire to #1 as it gets on country radio. Of course, one could argue that are a lot more spots on country radio for male artists since they get 80%-90% of the airplay. So turning to female artists (which is where the comparable data gets tricky), there's that "unwritten rule" that country radio has only room for three staple women artists at a time. The two artists that immediately come to mind are Faith Hill and Shania Twain, but both were somewhat damaged at country radio when they set out for crossover success in an era where country radio didn't like it when country artists weren't loyal to country. (Which is now laughable in the current era). Faith Hill recovered with a comeback album just a few months before she turned 38, had four top ten hits (three went top five, including one #1), but hasn't released another solo studio album since then (other than a holiday album). After turning 37, Shania had three top ten hits from Up! but then went 15 years before releasing a new studio album of all new material. Jo Dee Messina was big in her late 20s/early 30s, but she too then went 5 years before releasing a studio album of all new material. At that point, she was pushing 35. The lead single did go to #1, but she's had nothing in the top 20 at country radio since then. Maybe the best comparison is Martina McBride, who churned out consistent top 5 hits through the age of 37, but then only had two top 5 hits after that (although did still manage to have a handful of top 20 hits). Martina seemed to be pushed aside at radio from one of those coveted three spots when the likes of Carrie Underwood and Taylor Swift broke through. Gretchen Wilson was just breaking through before the prior two, and Miranda Lambert started slower at country radio, but eventually got into the top three spots with Carrie and Taylor. So when trying to project a possible decline, the question who is in those top three spots now and who would she be replaced by? Even though Cry Pretty hasn't been as strong as a radio hit as we're used to seeing by Carrie, she's still in the top three. Kelsea Ballerini has gotten to the point where Gretchen Wilson was at this point at the start of her chart career, and Kelsea is almost a decade younger than where Gretchen was at this point, so it doesn't seem like she's about to drop off any time soon. But who is in that #3 spot right now? No one really knows. You can rattle off four or five female artists that have had a top 10 hit the past three years, but none have really been able to build off the success of that one big hit just yet. Miranda had a spot in the top three until country radio seemed to largely side with Blake in the Blake-Miranda ("war," at least among listeners). The critics still really seem to like Miranda, but country radio hasn't been as forgiving. Therefore, until another female artist steps up to become a reliable #3, it doesn't seem like Carrie or Kelsea will be dropping off any time soon...unless they have two or three singles in a row that really, really just don't connect at all with listeners. It's always possible that could happen, but it just doesn't seem likely to happen any time soon.
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thewp
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Post by thewp on Jul 30, 2018 15:21:44 GMT -5
Miranda was still charting high until she released “Little Red Wagon” which is godawful. It still peaked higher than it frankly should have.
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raylatch98
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Post by raylatch98 on Jul 30, 2018 15:29:41 GMT -5
Miranda was still charting high until she released “Little Red Wagon” which is godawful. It still peaked higher than it frankly should have. It is amazing we are about to hit 4 years of Miranda Lambert not being in the Top 10 with her own singles. Radio has really had Miranda Lambert at a decently low priority post "Little Red Wagon" chart run. I do think if she has a radio friendly song as a lead single for her next album she will be fine. But it's still amazing how much radio has lowered on her.
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stanches2318
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Post by stanches2318 on Jul 30, 2018 15:37:06 GMT -5
Miranda was still charting high until she released “Little Red Wagon” which is godawful. It still peaked higher than it frankly should have. It is amazing we are about to hit 4 years of Miranda Lambert not being in the Top 10 with her own singles. Radio has really had Miranda Lambert at a decently low priority post "Little Red Wagon" chart run. I do think if she has a radio friendly song as a lead single for her next album she will be fine. But it's still amazing how much radio has lowered on her. I’ve alsways said since after “House That Built Me” she was overrated and the award committee bought in the sub par music she was releasing.
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thewp
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Post by thewp on Jul 30, 2018 15:42:37 GMT -5
It is amazing we are about to hit 4 years of Miranda Lambert not being in the Top 10 with her own singles. Radio has really had Miranda Lambert at a decently low priority post "Little Red Wagon" chart run. I do think if she has a radio friendly song as a lead single for her next album she will be fine. But it's still amazing how much radio has lowered on her. I’ve alsways said since after “House That Built Me” she was overrated and the award committee bought in the sub par music she was releasing. Agreed. I think there would be a very different conversation about her if she didn’t have the voting block advantage in getting all those awards. I also was thinking- I’m not sure Gretchen Wilson had great singles either. I tried listening to one the album after redneck woman (not sure of the song offhand) and I had to delete it off my phone, which is kinda a bummer, because I like the image/ swagger she projected.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Jul 30, 2018 18:29:00 GMT -5
It is amazing we are about to hit 4 years of Miranda Lambert not being in the Top 10 with her own singles. Radio has really had Miranda Lambert at a decently low priority post "Little Red Wagon" chart run. I do think if she has a radio friendly song as a lead single for her next album she will be fine. But it's still amazing how much radio has lowered on her. I’ve alsways said since after “House That Built Me” she was overrated and the award committee bought in the sub par music she was releasing. I’ve alsways said since after “House That Built Me” she was overrated and the award committee bought in the sub par music she was releasing. Agreed. I think there would be a very different conversation about her if she didn’t have the voting block advantage in getting all those awards. Getting a little off-topic here, but while Miranda Lambert gets probably more awards than she would without the 'voting block advantage' at the country awards shows, that has no effect on the fact that she's a critically acclaimed artist. Maybe she isn't everyone's cup of tea and that's totally fair, but it's a fact that from a critical standpoint she is consistently ranked as one of the best females in the genre. Her singles and albums are always praised across the spectrum and her music always puts up strong numbers on Metacritic ( see link). The only other current country female who can touch her in that regard is Kacey Musgraves.
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stanches2318
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Post by stanches2318 on Jul 30, 2018 19:00:53 GMT -5
in my opinion, Kacey's music has gotten worst with every release. her first album was super, her second one was so-and-so. her latest one was terrible. to get back on topic. Carrie has been better than these two put together for yrs.
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collinkottke
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Post by collinkottke on Jul 30, 2018 19:17:55 GMT -5
in my opinion, Kacey's music has gotten worst with every release. her first album was super, her second one was so-and-so. her latest one was terrible. to get back on topic. Carrie has been better than these two put together for yrs. I strongly disagree with this whole post. Every word of it.
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Post by bboat11 on Jul 30, 2018 19:31:56 GMT -5
robrt30 I love the analysis! I would personally include Maren Morris as one of the 3 right now. It remains to be seen if her second album will connect with radio the way that her first one did, but right now she seems the most likely to have longevity out of just about any other newer female artist, imo. I think that Martina is a valid artist for comparison, as she had the most normal career arc out of all her peers. She didn't just abruptly stop recording for whatever reason the way that her peers like Faith, Trisha, Shania, and Jo Dee did. But I will also point out that Martina did herself no favors by releasing Timeless and essentially allowing herself to disappear from radio for 2 years right in the middle of her commercial peak... It was unfortunate timing for her that Carrie and Taylor exploded simultaneously in the meantime, but it was a risk that she was ready to take at that point in her career. The damage done to her radio career ended up being irreversible, but I feel like the critical acclaim that came with it helped cement her legacy. Carrie is certainly bigger at her peak than Martina was (whether she has reached it yet or not), so I fully expect her to be fine for several more eras. It is possible that this could be when she is starting to focus more on critical acclaim, but I think we will need to hear more about this album before we can fully reach that conclusion. It is possible that this is just a small misstep a la "Still Holding On" barely missing the top 10 right before "A Broken Wing" became one of Martina's biggest hits and ultimately led to her biggest album era. Or it is also possible that this will be her Timeless moment, where she starts chasing more creative passions without concern for radio. Regardless, I expect Carrie to have no problems with radio in the immediate future. Even if this song breaks her top 3 streak, I have a hunch that her top 10 streak could be alive for at least 2-3 more album eras!
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stanches2318
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Post by stanches2318 on Jul 30, 2018 19:36:41 GMT -5
robrt30 I love the analysis! I would personally include Maren Morris as one of the 3 right now. It remains to be seen if her second album will connect with radio the way that her first one did, but right now she seems the most likely to have longevity out of just about any other newer female artist, imo. I think that Martina is a valid artist for comparison, as she had the most normal career arc out of all her peers. She didn't just abruptly stop recording for whatever reason the way that her peers like Faith, Trisha, Shania, and Jo Dee did. But I will also point out that Martina did herself no favors by releasing Timeless and essentially allowing herself to disappear from radio for 2 years right in the middle of her commercial peak... It was unfortunate timing for her that Carrie and Taylor exploded simultaneously in the meantime, but it was a risk that she was ready to take at that point in her career. The damage done to her radio career ended up being irreversible, but I feel like the critical acclaim that came with it helped cement her legacy. Carrie is certainly bigger at her peak than Martina was (whether she has reached it yet or not), so I fully expect her to be fine for several more eras. It is possible that this could be when she is starting to focus more on critical acclaim, but I think we will need to hear more about this album before we can fully reach that conclusion. It is possible that this is just a small misstep a la "Still Holding On" barely missing the top 10 right before "A Broken Wing" became one of Martina's biggest hits and ultimately led to her biggest album era. Or it is also possible that this will be her Timeless moment, where she starts chasing more creative passions without concern for radio. Regardless, I expect Carrie to have no problems with radio in the immediate future. Even if this song breaks her top 3 streak, I have a hunch that her top 10 streak could be alive for at least 2-3 more album eras! A lot of the unplayed females imo are making the best music.
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Post by bboat11 on Jul 30, 2018 19:41:34 GMT -5
robrt30 I love the analysis! I would personally include Maren Morris as one of the 3 right now. It remains to be seen if her second album will connect with radio the way that her first one did, but right now she seems the most likely to have longevity out of just about any other newer female artist, imo. I think that Martina is a valid artist for comparison, as she had the most normal career arc out of all her peers. She didn't just abruptly stop recording for whatever reason the way that her peers like Faith, Trisha, Shania, and Jo Dee did. But I will also point out that Martina did herself no favors by releasing Timeless and essentially allowing herself to disappear from radio for 2 years right in the middle of her commercial peak... It was unfortunate timing for her that Carrie and Taylor exploded simultaneously in the meantime, but it was a risk that she was ready to take at that point in her career. The damage done to her radio career ended up being irreversible, but I feel like the critical acclaim that came with it helped cement her legacy. Carrie is certainly bigger at her peak than Martina was (whether she has reached it yet or not), so I fully expect her to be fine for several more eras. It is possible that this could be when she is starting to focus more on critical acclaim, but I think we will need to hear more about this album before we can fully reach that conclusion. It is possible that this is just a small misstep a la "Still Holding On" barely missing the top 10 right before "A Broken Wing" became one of Martina's biggest hits and ultimately led to her biggest album era. Or it is also possible that this will be her Timeless moment, where she starts chasing more creative passions without concern for radio. Regardless, I expect Carrie to have no problems with radio in the immediate future. Even if this song breaks her top 3 streak, I have a hunch that her top 10 streak could be alive for at least 2-3 more album eras! A lot of the unplayed females imo are making the best music. Is that so?
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g8erboi
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Joined: September 2015
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Post by g8erboi on Aug 5, 2018 11:28:49 GMT -5
I’m glad radio isn’t dropping this just yet, but this is crashing on iTunes. They should discount it if they haven’t already.
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