85la
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Post by 85la on Apr 18, 2018 23:10:29 GMT -5
There shouldn't be this much confusion, honestly, about Elvis' count. We all said, rather recently, how we have different ways of looking at the pre-Hot 100 #1's, I for one said that I count with the ones from the best sellers list, but the fact of the matter is there was already an all-encompassing top 100 dating back to November 1955 that comprehends, along with the Hot 100, all of Presley's career. And he had 7 #1's on that list; with the 7 he had on the Hot 100, he has 14, the same as Rihanna, not the same as Mariah or just under her. Top 100: Heartbreak Hotel Don't Be Cruel Love Me Tender All Shook Up (Let Me Be Your) Teddy Bear Jailhouse Rock Don't Hot 100: A Big Hunk o' Love Stuck on You It's Now or Never Are You Lonesome Tonight? Surrender Good Luck Charm Suspicious Minds There. Problem solved. I wouldn't know about top 10 hits, don't have a source for that, if anyone does I'd appreciate it greatly. Well, we (or at least I) was actually referring mainly to the specific double-sided #1 Don't Be Cruel/Hound Dog and how it charted on one chart, the Best Sellers in stores list, and whether it was counted as one or two hits based on that chart, not how to tally Elvis's total hits when considering all the different charts (Best Sellers list, Top 100, Hot 100, etc.), but it doesn't matter to me a whole lot because I realize there is no one definitive answer and there are several ways of looking at it. And your point Gary about Don't Be Cruel and Hound Dog switching lead credits at #1 is an interesting fact that probably added to the confusion and historical debate. Nice discussion! |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 19, 2018 9:42:26 GMT -5
There shouldn't be this much confusion, honestly, about Elvis' count. We all said, rather recently, how we have different ways of looking at the pre-Hot 100 #1's, I for one said that I count with the ones from the best sellers list, but the fact of the matter is there was already an all-encompassing top 100 dating back to November 1955 that comprehends, along with the Hot 100, all of Presley's career. And he had 7 #1's on that list; with the 7 he had on the Hot 100, he has 14, the same as Rihanna, not the same as Mariah or just under her. Top 100: Heartbreak Hotel Don't Be Cruel Love Me Tender All Shook Up (Let Me Be Your) Teddy Bear Jailhouse Rock Don't Hot 100: A Big Hunk o' Love Stuck on You It's Now or Never Are You Lonesome Tonight? Surrender Good Luck Charm Suspicious Minds There. Problem solved. I wouldn't know about top 10 hits, don't have a source for that, if anyone does I'd appreciate it greatly. What’s the difference in the Top 100 and whatever chart helps him get to 18 per Whitburn? |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Apr 19, 2018 10:02:04 GMT -5
Hot 100 Chart Moves: Cardi B Adds Her Fifth Top 10, J Balvin Earns His Second & Bad Bunny Notches His First
"I Like It" starts at No. 8. Plus, action for Famous Dex & Kenny Chesney.
Cardi B collects her first top 10 debut on the Billboard Hot 100 chart (dated April 21), as "I Like It," with Bad Bunny and J Balvin, opens at No. 8.
Following its first full week of tracking after its April 6 release, on Cardi B's debut LP Invasion of Privacy -- which debuts at No. 1 on the Billboard 200 -- the track arrives with 25.9 million U.S. streams, 4.9 million radio audience impressions and 47,000 downloads sold, according to Nielsen Music. The song starts at No. 2 on Digital Song Sales and No. 9 on Streaming Songs.
"I Like It" arrives as Cardi B's fifth Hot 100 top 10.
Cardi B's Billboard Hot 100 Top 10s
No. 1 (3 weeks), "Bodak Yellow (Money Moves)," Oct. 7, 2017
No. 6, "MotorSport," with Migos & Nicki Minaj, Dec. 30, 2017
No. 4, "No Limit," G-Eazy featuring A$AP Rocky & Cardi B, Jan. 6, 2018
No. 3, "Finesse," with Bruno Mars, Jan. 20, 2018
No. 8 (to date), "I Like It," with Bad Bunny & J Balvin, April 21, 2018
Cardi B charts 13 total songs on the latest Hot 100, passing Beyoncé for the most simultaneous entries by a woman.
Latin stars Bad Bunny and Balvin earn their first and second Hot 100 top 10s, respectively. In three prior visits, Bad Bunny had reached a No. 74 high in December as featured on Becky G's "Mayores." Balvin has tallied a No. 3 best with "Mi Gente," his collaboration with Willy William and remix featuring Beyoncé, in October.
"I Like It" reworks the classic "I Like It Like That," originally performed by Pete Rodriguez in 1967 and taken to No. 25 on the Hot 100 in 1997 (titled "I Like It") by The Blackout Allstars.
Who else makes moves on the Hot 100?
"Japan," Famous Dex
The rapper earns his first top 40 Hot 100, hit, as "Japan" vaults 53-29. It surges by 59 percent to 22.6 million U.S. streams, as parent LP Dex Meets Dexter debuts at No. 10 on Top R&B/Hip-Hop Albums.
As for the song's title … it earns Famous Dex the highest-charting Hot 100 hit with "Japan" in its name, besting The Vapors' 1980 new wave classic:
No. 29 (to date), "Japan," Famous Dex, April 7, 2018
No. 36, "Turning Japanese," The Vapors, Nov. 29, 1980
No. 64, "Lost in Japan," Shawn Mendes, April 7, 2018
No. 66, "Big in Japan," Alphaville, Jan. 12, 1985
No. 74, "Me Japanese Boy I Love You," Bobby Goldsboro, Sept. 12, 1964
"Get Along," Kenny Chesney
Chesney's positive-message anthem arrives at No. 85 on the Hot 100 with 26,000 downloads sold and surges 37-11 on Hot Country Songs. He performed the song at the 53rd Academy of Country Music Awards, broadcast on CBS, April 15.
Chesney celebrates nearly 20 years of charting on the Hot 100, as "That's Why I'm Here," the first of his 52 entries, bowed on May 9, 1998. He has sent at least one title onto the Hot 100 every year since.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Apr 19, 2018 10:03:52 GMT -5
There shouldn't be this much confusion, honestly, about Elvis' count. We all said, rather recently, how we have different ways of looking at the pre-Hot 100 #1's, I for one said that I count with the ones from the best sellers list, but the fact of the matter is there was already an all-encompassing top 100 dating back to November 1955 that comprehends, along with the Hot 100, all of Presley's career. And he had 7 #1's on that list; with the 7 he had on the Hot 100, he has 14, the same as Rihanna, not the same as Mariah or just under her. Top 100: Heartbreak Hotel Don't Be Cruel Love Me Tender All Shook Up (Let Me Be Your) Teddy Bear Jailhouse Rock Don't Hot 100: A Big Hunk o' Love Stuck on You It's Now or Never Are You Lonesome Tonight? Surrender Good Luck Charm Suspicious Minds There. Problem solved. I wouldn't know about top 10 hits, don't have a source for that, if anyone does I'd appreciate it greatly. What’s the difference in the Top 100 and whatever chart helps him get to 18 per Whitburn? What is the count then in your opinion? Best Sellers in Stores is the main chart from 55-58. Best Sellers in Stores gets the count to 17 --- it goes to 18 if you believe that Don't Be Cruel and Hound Dog are two songs and not one |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 19, 2018 10:06:22 GMT -5
What’s the difference in the Top 100 and whatever chart helps him get to 18 per Whitburn? What is the count then in your opinion? Best Sellers in Stores is the main chart from 55-58. Best Sellers in Stores gets the count to 17 --- it goes to 18 if you believe that Don't Be Cruel and Hound Dog are two songs and not one Oh 10-4 on counting those two separate, which in a sense I agree with because both are such big songs. Of course that’s different than a technical chart credit. If the Top 100 - which I don’t know much about - somehow combines metrics, I’d personally use it. I don’t think just Best Sellers is representative enough as, I’ve said before, it would be like only using Digital Songs ion 2018. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Apr 19, 2018 10:13:10 GMT -5
Best Sellers in Stores is what is used in most when referencing music from 55 to 58
So when you here that such and such song went to #1 in 1957 in one writeup or another, they mean #1 on Best Sellers in Stores
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renaboss
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Post by renaboss on Apr 19, 2018 14:52:49 GMT -5
There shouldn't be this much confusion, honestly, about Elvis' count. We all said, rather recently, how we have different ways of looking at the pre-Hot 100 #1's, I for one said that I count with the ones from the best sellers list, but the fact of the matter is there was already an all-encompassing top 100 dating back to November 1955 that comprehends, along with the Hot 100, all of Presley's career. And he had 7 #1's on that list; with the 7 he had on the Hot 100, he has 14, the same as Rihanna, not the same as Mariah or just under her. Top 100: Heartbreak Hotel Don't Be Cruel Love Me Tender All Shook Up (Let Me Be Your) Teddy Bear Jailhouse Rock Don't Hot 100: A Big Hunk o' Love Stuck on You It's Now or Never Are You Lonesome Tonight? Surrender Good Luck Charm Suspicious Minds There. Problem solved. I wouldn't know about top 10 hits, don't have a source for that, if anyone does I'd appreciate it greatly. What’s the difference in the Top 100 and whatever chart helps him get to 18 per Whitburn? The top 100, as the Hot 100's predecessor, averaged all the metrics, for sales, jukeboxes and airplay. It therefore makes more sense to me to use that as a source for the most popular songs in the country at the time, using the same basic data as the chart that followed it (that nuked all others). Whitburn resorts only to the best sellers' list, which kinda makes sense out of the three that existed, but is still pretty arbitrary: why that one and not the others? And I still don't fully get how "Don't Be Cruel" and "Hound Dog" would be counted as two separate #1's if the double A-sided single reigned for eleven straight weeks at a time when singles could get double billing. Apparently the credits switched, but, it's all still one record, right? Just so happens that both songs were hits. Not that different then - I presume, wasn't there, wouldn't know, I believe you're the one who told me both were big but "It's Too Late" was bigger - from Carole King's 1971 #1: two big hits, one single, one #1 accounted for. And even with the credits changing, I mean, I know it's not the same, but I'll be damned if I cound Sheeran's "Perfect" as two #1's, with and without Beyonce. |
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renaboss
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Post by renaboss on Apr 19, 2018 15:00:19 GMT -5
Another thing that's rather arbitrary about Joel Whitburn is how he starts counting with "Rock Around the Clock", which wasn't even the first #1 of 1955 - peaked in July, actually. Even that website I shared yesterday (https://weeklytop40.wordpress.com/1955-all-charts/) starts its archive with that issue. (Btw, I plan to go over said archive and count Presley's top 10 hits on the top 100 and on the best sellers's list, I'll let you guys know when I'm done)
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Apr 19, 2018 15:10:48 GMT -5
Another thing that's rather arbitrary about Joel Whitburn is how he starts counting with "Rock Around the Clock", which wasn't even the first #1 of 1955 - peaked in July, actually. Even that website I shared yesterday (https://weeklytop40.wordpress.com/1955-all-charts/) starts its archive with that issue. (Btw, I plan to go over said archive and count Presley's top 10 hits on the top 100 and on the best sellers's list, I'll let you guys know when I'm done) Not arbitrary at all Before chart followers got all cozy with the idea that music charts began in August of 1958, with the start of the Hot 100, there was the time period called the "Rock era", Rock Around The Clock is the universally recognized song that kicked off the rock era as being the first rock song to go to #1 There is no significant difference in the music that topped the charts in July 1958 and August 1958 - however |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Apr 19, 2018 15:17:12 GMT -5
What’s the difference in the Top 100 and whatever chart helps him get to 18 per Whitburn? The top 100, as the Hot 100's predecessor, averaged all the metrics, for sales, jukeboxes and airplay. It therefore makes more sense to me to use that as a source for the most popular songs in the country at the time, using the same basic data as the chart that followed it (that nuked all others). Whitburn resorts only to the best sellers' list, which kinda makes sense out of the three that existed, but is still pretty arbitrary: why that one and not the others? And I still don't fully get how "Don't Be Cruel" and "Hound Dog" would be counted as two separate #1's if the double A-sided single reigned for eleven straight weeks at a time when singles could get double billing. Apparently the credits switched, but, it's all still one record, right? Just so happens that both songs were hits. Not that different then - I presume, wasn't there, wouldn't know, I believe you're the one who told me both were big but "It's Too Late" was bigger - from Carole King's 1971 #1: two big hits, one single, one #1 accounted for. And even with the credits changing, I mean, I know it's not the same, but I'll be damned if I cound Sheeran's "Perfect" as two #1's, with and without Beyonce. The books describe the best sellers list as the "definitive popularity chart" prior to the Hot 100 The Top 100 was new and only out a couple years |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Apr 19, 2018 15:20:48 GMT -5
Regarding Elvis
It is 38 top 10's and 18 #1's using Best Sellers -- acknowledged in the Whitburn books
25 top 10's and 7 #1's using the Hot 100
When comparing to Mariah Carey and Madonna, Billboard ruled Don't Be Cruel/Hound Dog as one hit, not two
Therefore 37 and 17
Statistics are a funny thing, you can dress them up to tell any story you want and believe whatever result you would like
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garrettlen
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Post by garrettlen on Apr 19, 2018 19:27:02 GMT -5
The top 100, as the Hot 100's predecessor, averaged all the metrics, for sales, jukeboxes and airplay. It therefore makes more sense to me to use that as a source for the most popular songs in the country at the time, using the same basic data as the chart that followed it (that nuked all others). Whitburn resorts only to the best sellers' list, which kinda makes sense out of the three that existed, but is still pretty arbitrary: why that one and not the others? And I still don't fully get how "Don't Be Cruel" and "Hound Dog" would be counted as two separate #1's if the double A-sided single reigned for eleven straight weeks at a time when singles could get double billing. Apparently the credits switched, but, it's all still one record, right? Just so happens that both songs were hits. Not that different then - I presume, wasn't there, wouldn't know, I believe you're the one who told me both were big but "It's Too Late" was bigger - from Carole King's 1971 #1: two big hits, one single, one #1 accounted for. And even with the credits changing, I mean, I know it's not the same, but I'll be damned if I cound Sheeran's "Perfect" as two #1's, with and without Beyonce. The books describe the best sellers list as the "definitive popularity chart" prior to the Hot 100 The Top 100 was new and only out a couple years When Fred Bronson was still compiling the "Billboard Book of #1 Hits" he too always used the Best Sellers list for pre-Hot 100 chart toppers; and he also began with "(We're Gonna) Rock Around the Clock" as the beginning of the rock era. BTW, there are exactly 39 Billboard chart toppers from July 1955 thru July 1958 just before the Hot 100 debuted. I really liked those books, I wish somebody else would pick up the mantle. |
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garrettlen
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Post by garrettlen on Apr 19, 2018 19:33:51 GMT -5
Another thing that's rather arbitrary about Joel Whitburn is how he starts counting with "Rock Around the Clock", which wasn't even the first #1 of 1955 - peaked in July, actually. Even that website I shared yesterday (https://weeklytop40.wordpress.com/1955-all-charts/) starts its archive with that issue. (Btw, I plan to go over said archive and count Presley's top 10 hits on the top 100 and on the best sellers's list, I'll let you guys know when I'm done) Thanks for sharing that website. I checked it out and there is some really interesting info on there. |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 20, 2018 16:35:52 GMT -5
What’s the difference in the Top 100 and whatever chart helps him get to 18 per Whitburn? The top 100, as the Hot 100's predecessor, averaged all the metrics, for sales, jukeboxes and airplay. It therefore makes more sense to me to use that as a source for the most popular songs in the country at the time, using the same basic data as the chart that followed it (that nuked all others). Whitburn resorts only to the best sellers' list, which kinda makes sense out of the three that existed, but is still pretty arbitrary: why that one and not the others? And I still don't fully get how "Don't Be Cruel" and "Hound Dog" would be counted as two separate #1's if the double A-sided single reigned for eleven straight weeks at a time when singles could get double billing. Apparently the credits switched, but, it's all still one record, right? Just so happens that both songs were hits. Not that different then - I presume, wasn't there, wouldn't know, I believe you're the one who told me both were big but "It's Too Late" was bigger - from Carole King's 1971 #1: two big hits, one single, one #1 accounted for. And even with the credits changing, I mean, I know it's not the same, but I'll be damned if I cound Sheeran's "Perfect" as two #1's, with and without Beyonce. I just meant that subjectively those are both huge songs I see as #1s. Technically I know they are seen as 1 single. Of course, Jewel and others have had double-sided singles that counted as two hits. |
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jebsib
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Post by jebsib on Apr 21, 2018 7:09:15 GMT -5
The problem with relying on the Top 100 is that it wasn’t weekly. It was published sporadically or at best once every 2 weeks. This made it unreliable as a pure precursor to the Hot 100. Also Whitburn doesn’t just rely on the Best Seller chart - that’s Fred Bronson and Billboard. Whitburn uses data from all 4 pop charts in the 50s and the peak position he uses is a song’s highest position on one of those competing charts. Imperfect, but inclusive.
Regarding flip side #1s, I am reminded of Elton John’s Candle 1997 single: Before it became the Pulse Music board, this was the Radio & Records message board and there were people ‘here’ arguing that ‘Something About the Way You Look Tonight’ should be treated separately as an 11 week #1 because it was listed first on the chart.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Apr 21, 2018 9:49:57 GMT -5
The problem with relying on the Top 100 is that it wasn’t weekly. It was published sporadically or at best once every 2 weeks. This made it unreliable as a pure precursor to the Hot 100. Also Whitburn doesn’t just rely on the Best Seller chart - that’s Fred Bronson and Billboard. Whitburn uses data from all 4 pop charts in the 50s and the peak position he uses is a song’s highest position on one of those competing charts. Imperfect, but inclusive. Regarding flip side #1s, I am reminded of Elton John’s Candle 1997 single: Before it became the Pulse Music board, this was the Radio & Records message board and there were people ‘here’ arguing that ‘Something About the Way You Look Tonight’ should be treated separately as an 11 week #1 because it was listed first on the chart. Uses all 4 in his current books. Leans heavily towards Best Sellers. The top 10 books - America's Greatest Hits 1940-2015 uses Best Sellers pre-Hot 100 |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Apr 21, 2018 10:15:34 GMT -5
13 Things to Know About the Charts This Week: Cardi B Bows & Drake Replaces Himself at No. 1
News
By Xander Zellner | April 21, 2018 9:00 AM EDT
Cardi B rules the Billboard charts this week, as her debut album Invasion of Privacy arrives at No. 1 on the Billboard 200. The set also sparks her first week at No. 1 on the Billboard Artist 100.
Plus, Drake replaces himself atop the Billboard Hot 100, as “Nice for What” becomes his second consecutive No. 1 debut, while “God’s Plan” dips to No. 2.
Here are 13 other things to know about the charts this week:
1. With Invasion of Privacy, Cardi B becomes just the fifth female rapper with a No. 1 album on the Billboard 200. Click here to see the other four rappers.
2. More Cardi news: The MC lands 13 total songs on the Hot 100, which breaks Beyonce’s record for the most simultaneous Hot 100 hits among women. Click here to read about the historic achievement.
3. As Drake replaces himself at No. 1 on the Hot 100 with “Nice for What,” we look back at all the other acts who have achieved the feat, from Taylor Swift to The Beatles. Click here to see the list.
4. “Nice for What” earns Drake his 25th top 10 Hot 100 hit, which ties Elvis Presley for the fourth-most top 10s of all time among solo males. Click here to read the story.
5. After just one day of streaming and sales tracking, Nicki Minaj’s latest releases “Barbie Tingz” and “Chun-Li” debut on the Hot 100. They’re expected to make an even bigger splash next week. Click here to read the article.
6. Looking ahead to next week’s Billboard 200, Jason Aldean’s Rearview Town is slated to earn the country singer his fourth consecutive No. 1 album. Click here to read the Billboard 200 forecast.
7. Thanks to the Academy of Country Music Awards on April 15, Carrie Underwood, Thomas Rhett, Kane Brown and more see a 427% sales gain. Click here to read the story.
8. Speaking of the ACMs, Gary Trust and Billboard’s West Coast editor Melinda Newman recap the show. Later, Trust and Billboard’s rock, streaming and social charts manager Kevin Rutherford chat with Bad Wolves frontman Tommy Vext about their remake of The Cranberries’ “Zombie.” Click here to listen.
9. Over on the Pop Shop Podcast, Keith Caulfield and Katie Atkinson are joined by Sabrina Carpenter and Jonas Blue to discuss how the pair met on Twitter and their top 20 Hot Dance/Electronic Songs hit “Alien.” Click here to listen.
10. Lovelytheband scores its first No. 1 on any Billboard chart, as “Broken” rises 3-1 on the Alternative Songs chart. Click here to read about the up-and-comers.
11. Alina Baraz rules the Top TV Songs chart, for March, with “Electric,” featuring Khalid, thanks to its appearance in Netflix’s On My Block. Click here to read the story.
12. Alicia Keys hits No. 1 on the Top Facebook Live Videos chart, thanks to her video celebrating International Women’s Day on March 8. Plus, a trio of videos from Ultra Music Festival occupy Nos. 2, 3, and 4. Click here to read the story.
13. In the latest edition of “This Week in Billboard Chart History,” we look back at Madonna’s Like A Prayer, which led the Billboard 200 for the first time on April 22, 1989. Click here to read the story.
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