|
Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on May 14, 2018 23:15:34 GMT -5
So you're just disagreeing for the sake of it. The usual then. I feel like there’s some tension between us and it’s kind of hot ngl Aww, the pubic hair of Pulse is hitting on me!
|
|
Sherane Lamar
2x Platinum Member
Banned
Long live XXX
Joined: February 2016
Posts: 2,900
|
Post by Sherane Lamar on May 14, 2018 23:19:18 GMT -5
Gee. Ok. Hold on a second. Let me ask you a few questions: 1. How many times have you listened to a song at a concert? 2. How many times have you listened to a song in your entire life? 3. Now what is the answer to #1 divided by the answer to #2? Probably something like 1/5,000 right? If you're an avid concert attendee? That's about how much concerts matter in a conversation about popularity. About a factor of 1 in 5000. I.e., completely irrelevant or negligible to the conversation. That's not to say that Ticket Sales likely correlate with fan interest, which can just as easily be observed in how much interest an artist can generate in their debut week. I'll disagree with you here. Concert popularity is a huge indicator of how big an act is considered overall. Being able to tour across the country selling out huge venues is a testament to how big someone is. Post Malone may have just had an album bomb on the album chart but do you think he could announce a tour at this moment and sell out stadiums at every venue in just a couple hours? Key word: considered [by whom?]I think anybody who considers touring to be a relevant factor in popularity is confused. Maybe because touring is a key factor in an artist's revenue. But not in whether or not that artist is popular. Either confused or trying desperately to grasp at an irrelevant factor in order to deride an artist they don't like/pump an artist they do like. Post Malone would be a great example of how ridiculous it could be to require ticket sales as a prerequisite for being considered popular. He's clearly the most listened to artist of 2018. By quite a margin. And therefor, the most popular by definition. If he literally sold zero tickets this year, how would that change that at all? Being able to tour across the country selling out huge venues is a testament to how big someone is.
Don't disagree. But it isn't a requirement. And in addition, if you do great at ticket sales but nobody wants to listen to your music outside of that setting, then you aren't popular. Even the highest selling tours are only a negligible sliver in comparison to streaming, radio, and sales. Trying to discredit Rihanna as artist of the century just because her ticket sales aren't the greatest is ridiculous. If concerts account for .01% of all music consumption, then let's take .01% of Rihanna's overall success away and see if she's still the most successful artist of the 21st century.
|
|
Sherane Lamar
2x Platinum Member
Banned
Long live XXX
Joined: February 2016
Posts: 2,900
|
Post by Sherane Lamar on May 14, 2018 23:24:53 GMT -5
I'll disagree with you here. Concert popularity is a huge indicator of how big an act is considered overall. Being able to tour across the country selling out huge venues is a testament to how big someone is. Post Malone may have just had an album bomb on the album chart but do you think he could announce a tour at this moment and sell out stadiums at every venue in just a couple hours? I agree concerts mean a lot, but that also means country artists like Jason Aldean and Luke Bryan could be considered legends since they have huge tours. I would say that they are, especially within their genre. But only boarder-line. They would probably both be somewhere in the top 70 of all time in terms of weeks spent on the Hot 100. They wouldn't be all that far behind Nicki Minaj, who was mentioned earlier. Another key part of this conversation is that everybody has a different standard for what the term "legend" means. I would say there are probably 100 regular "legends". Plus maybe another 30 special ones like Tupac, or NWA, or Nirvana/Kurt Cobain who were never able to be as successful as others, but left their mark with cultural impact. Anytime this question is asked, it should also be asked just what kind of criteria each person needs for the term.
|
|
Relaxing Cup
Diamond Member
Joined: March 2014
Posts: 14,673
|
Post by Relaxing Cup on May 14, 2018 23:52:10 GMT -5
I feel like there’s some tension between us and it’s kind of hot ngl Aww, the pubic hair of Pulse is hitting on me! Sweetie, now you know these petty insults/attacks are not becoming of you. And to be very very clear, I was not hitting on you, I was being playful with you; Lighten up a bit!
|
|
nick64
Diamond Member
Joined: November 2011
Posts: 14,433
|
Post by nick64 on May 14, 2018 23:56:15 GMT -5
Nah she's not a legend. Hasn't had a big enough cultural impact. Basically, will she be easily remembered when she stops being "current"? Will she immediately come to mind when you think of the biggest and best artists of the century? I don't think so, personally. She's just a fairly consistent hit maker with a lot of respect.
Right now, for this century, I'd say Beyonce, Rihanna, and Taylor have essentially confirmed this status (Britney too if we count her for this century). One more huge album and I'll throw Adele in there. JT is definitely close. Bruno has all the makings of becoming a legend. Katy and Gaga were a little too short lived, despite definite impact, so they both need a comeback. I think Bieber is one to watch in the next few years, as Purpose showed that he's gracefully moved past the teen heartthrob stage. Ariana's the most recent one to show potential, but she's struggling to get that massive ubiquitous hit, not even hitting #1 yet, so she's starting to be more of a Selena-level hitmaker.
On the hip hop front, I'd say Drake, Kendrick, and J. Cole are the most likely to be considered legends in the future (Drake for more commercial reasons than the other two), with Nicki and Lil Wayne being a little too up-and-down career wise. Country hasn't had someone I'd consider legendary since Tim McGraw. And for rock, I'd say only Linkin Park from this century has had enough impact to be considered legendary.
|
|
Relaxing Cup
Diamond Member
Joined: March 2014
Posts: 14,673
|
Post by Relaxing Cup on May 15, 2018 0:11:23 GMT -5
Nah she's not a legend. Hasn't had a big enough cultural impact. Basically, will she be easily remembered when she stops being "current"? Will she immediately come to mind when you think of the biggest and best artists of the century? I don't think so, personally. She's just a fairly consistent hit maker with a lot of respect. Right now, for this century, I'd say Beyonce, Rihanna, and Taylor have essentially confirmed this status (Britney too if we count her for this century). One more huge album and I'll throw Adele in there. JT is definitely close. Bruno has all the makings of becoming a legend. Katy and Gaga were a little too short lived, despite definite impact, so they both need a comeback. I think Bieber is one to watch in the next few years, as Purpose showed that he's gracefully moved past the teen heartthrob stage. Ariana's the most recent one to show potential, but she's struggling to get that massive ubiquitous hit, not even hitting #1 yet, so she's starting to be more of a Selena-level hitmaker. On the hip hop front, I'd say Drake, Kendrick, and J. Cole are the most likely to be considered legends in the future (Drake for more commercial reasons than the other two), with Nicki and Lil Wayne being a little too up-and-down career wise. Country hasn't had someone I'd consider legendary since Tim McGraw. And for rock, I'd say only Linkin Park from this century has had enough impact to be considered legendary. While I don’t think any of the current century artists you named are legends or will be legends except unfortunately Beyoncé due to the hype surrounding her persona, I do agree with your assessment on Ariana.
|
|
Sherane Lamar
2x Platinum Member
Banned
Long live XXX
Joined: February 2016
Posts: 2,900
|
Post by Sherane Lamar on May 15, 2018 0:34:13 GMT -5
Nah she's not a legend. Hasn't had a big enough cultural impact. Basically, will she be easily remembered when she stops being "current"? Will she immediately come to mind when you think of the biggest and best artists of the century? I don't think so, personally. She's just a fairly consistent hit maker with a lot of respect. Right now, for this century, I'd say Beyonce, Rihanna, and Taylor have essentially confirmed this status (Britney too if we count her for this century). One more huge album and I'll throw Adele in there. JT is definitely close. Bruno has all the makings of becoming a legend. Katy and Gaga were a little too short lived, despite definite impact, so they both need a comeback. I think Bieber is one to watch in the next few years, as Purpose showed that he's gracefully moved past the teen heartthrob stage. Ariana's the most recent one to show potential, but she's struggling to get that massive ubiquitous hit, not even hitting #1 yet, so she's starting to be more of a Selena-level hitmaker. On the hip hop front, I'd say Drake, Kendrick, and J. Cole are the most likely to be considered legends in the future (Drake for more commercial reasons than the other two), with Nicki and Lil Wayne being a little too up-and-down career wise. Country hasn't had someone I'd consider legendary since Tim McGraw. And for rock, I'd say only Linkin Park from this century has had enough impact to be considered legendary. In the Hip-Hop community, Wayne is already one of the most respected people ever. And also as one of the most influential rappers of all time, still playing a pivotal role in the modern Hip-Hop scene. Not only is he the godfather to Drake and Nicki, the two biggest rappers of the decade, but also as a godfather of people like Kodak Black, NBA Youngboy, Future, Young Thug, and really the entire slurred sound of modern Hip-Hop. Wayne was also the first artist to show the value of dominating the charts as a featured artist. He did this before Chris Brown, Drake, Nicki, Future, etc. And he also helped to redefine the concept of a mixtape in the 2000's. I don't really know anything about this. But this is what people on Hip-Hop forums say when his legacy is brought up. One thing to remember about Wayne is that his mainstream breakout was 1999 with "Tha Block Is Hot". Not 2008 with "Carter III". So Wayne has been a force on Hip-Hop for roughly half of the genre's existence.
|
|
nick64
Diamond Member
Joined: November 2011
Posts: 14,433
|
Post by nick64 on May 15, 2018 0:47:24 GMT -5
Nah she's not a legend. Hasn't had a big enough cultural impact. Basically, will she be easily remembered when she stops being "current"? Will she immediately come to mind when you think of the biggest and best artists of the century? I don't think so, personally. She's just a fairly consistent hit maker with a lot of respect. Right now, for this century, I'd say Beyonce, Rihanna, and Taylor have essentially confirmed this status (Britney too if we count her for this century). One more huge album and I'll throw Adele in there. JT is definitely close. Bruno has all the makings of becoming a legend. Katy and Gaga were a little too short lived, despite definite impact, so they both need a comeback. I think Bieber is one to watch in the next few years, as Purpose showed that he's gracefully moved past the teen heartthrob stage. Ariana's the most recent one to show potential, but she's struggling to get that massive ubiquitous hit, not even hitting #1 yet, so she's starting to be more of a Selena-level hitmaker. On the hip hop front, I'd say Drake, Kendrick, and J. Cole are the most likely to be considered legends in the future (Drake for more commercial reasons than the other two), with Nicki and Lil Wayne being a little too up-and-down career wise. Country hasn't had someone I'd consider legendary since Tim McGraw. And for rock, I'd say only Linkin Park from this century has had enough impact to be considered legendary. In the Hip-Hop community, Wayne is already one of the most respected people ever. And also as one of the most influential rappers of all time, still playing a pivotal role in the modern Hip-Hop scene. Not only is he the godfather to Drake and Nicki, the two biggest rappers of the decade, but also as a godfather of people like Kodak Black, NBA Youngboy, Future, Young Thug, and really the entire slurred sound of modern Hip-Hop. Wayne was also the first artist to show the value of dominating the charts as a featured artist. He did this before Chris Brown, Drake, Nicki, Future, etc. And he also helped to redefine the concept of a mixtape in the 2000's. I don't really know anything about this. But this is what people on Hip-Hop forums say when his legacy is brought up. One thing to remember about Wayne is that his mainstream breakout was 1999 with "Tha Block Is Hot". Not 2008 with "Carter III". So Wayne has been a force on Hip-Hop for roughly half of the genre's existence. Good points, I'll concede I didn't Weezy enough credit.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 15, 2018 0:52:14 GMT -5
No
|
|
|
Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on May 15, 2018 6:02:31 GMT -5
Aww, the pubic hair of Pulse is hitting on me! Sweetie, now you know these petty insults/attacks are not becoming of you. And to be very very clear, I was not hitting on you, I was being playful with you; Lighten up a bit! Lol. You’re telling me to lighten up after your recent flair ups? Learn to have an actual discussion then ‘sweetie’ and then we’ll talk.
|
|
Relaxing Cup
Diamond Member
Joined: March 2014
Posts: 14,673
|
Post by Relaxing Cup on May 15, 2018 8:54:02 GMT -5
Sweetie, now you know these petty insults/attacks are not becoming of you. And to be very very clear, I was not hitting on you, I was being playful with you; Lighten up a bit! Lol. You’re telling me to lighten up after your recent flair ups? Learn to have an actual discussion then ‘sweetie’ and then we’ll talk. no idea what you’re even referring to but frankly this isn’t the time or place, sweetie. let’s do our best to stay on topic: pink’s (and other artist’s) potential legend status.
|
|
Keelzit
Diamond Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 11,815
|
Post by Keelzit on May 15, 2018 9:22:12 GMT -5
She doesn't have those 'moments' who make certain artists legends. She's been consistently commercially successful for almost 20 years but her top moment is probably that Glitter In The Air Grammys performance and even that fails in comparison to Britney's, Bey's, Madonna's, Cher's etc. countless memorable moments. Not to mention that her music is not diverse enough to even make an argument about any impact she may have had on pop music.
|
|
leonagwen
Diamond Member
#LiteralLegender
Joined: November 2011
Posts: 15,284
|
Post by leonagwen on May 15, 2018 11:20:08 GMT -5
The only artists of this century that can be considered to be a legend are Beyonce, Mariah Carey, Taylor Swift, Rihanna, Lady Gaga and Adele. Beyonce. Mariah and Taylor might already be legends.Bruno and Ed are close too.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 15, 2018 11:23:23 GMT -5
Ed Sheeran?! No.
|
|
dbhmr
Diamond Member
>
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 23,463
|
Post by dbhmr on May 15, 2018 11:46:45 GMT -5
I mean, "legend" has become such a tumblr/message board term that it's almost laughable to think there will ever be any agreement on what a legend is and who qualifies, but I agree with the general consensus that while she's had a stellar career and has kind of flown under the radar to become a huge touring force and an impressive pop mainstay, the music/hits themselves and her general persona/artistry hasn't reached the highs of the established legends of yesteryear and the mostly-agreed-upon current/soon-to-be legends like Beyonce, Rihanna, Bruno, Adele, Kendrick, etc.
For me, there's sort of a subjective, tough-to-describe formula for a legend that combines huge, lasting success, shaping of pop culture, talent, impact, and, yes, charm--you have to endear yourself to the public in some way. For me, that disqualifies a number of the names mentioned here (for now)--Gaga, Katy, Ed, Nicki, and, yeah, Pink.
I do think she's a bit too readily dismissed in general, though, but part of that is her own fault for coasting musically for far too long.
|
|
filthy
3x Platinum Member
Joined: March 2017
Posts: 3,798
|
Post by filthy on May 15, 2018 11:58:05 GMT -5
Opinions.
|
|
leonagwen
Diamond Member
#LiteralLegender
Joined: November 2011
Posts: 15,284
|
Post by leonagwen on May 15, 2018 11:59:32 GMT -5
He could be in the future.Depends on his next couple of albums.
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 35,082
|
Post by jenglisbe on May 15, 2018 12:03:35 GMT -5
I mean, "legend" has become such a tumblr/message board term that it's almost laughable to think there will ever be any agreement on what a legend is and who qualifies True. Words like legend, icon, queen, etc are bandied around like a hacky sack. All of this.
|
|
Gary
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 45,843
|
Post by Gary on May 15, 2018 12:07:12 GMT -5
Maybe not legends today but, will they fit in here?
|
|
Unhinged
7x Platinum Member
2x PMA Winner…and current lurker 😛
Joined: January 2015
Posts: 7,792
|
Post by Unhinged on May 15, 2018 12:17:03 GMT -5
All this talk of legends from this century and still no mention of Eminem. Him, Beyoncé and possibly Britney Spears are the only three that I believe qualify at this point in time. P!nk, while definitely successful and I'd say even iconic, is not a legend. Though in time I think she will be seen as such. Alicia Keys, too.
|
|
Relaxing Cup
Diamond Member
Joined: March 2014
Posts: 14,673
|
Post by Relaxing Cup on May 15, 2018 12:29:38 GMT -5
How about, if you have to ask, it's a "no".
If I ask "Is Michael Jackson a legend?", there's absolutely no question that it's gonna be a "yes" answer. Same with "Is Aretha Franklin a legend?".
If there's any doubt, issa no. case closed lol
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 15, 2018 12:32:54 GMT -5
He could be in the future. That’s technically true of anyone.
|
|
filthy
3x Platinum Member
Joined: March 2017
Posts: 3,798
|
Post by filthy on May 15, 2018 12:34:27 GMT -5
How about, if you have to ask, it's a "no".
If I ask "Is Michael Jackson a legend?", there's absolutely no question that it's gonna be a "yes" answer. Same with "Is Aretha Franklin a legend?". If there's any doubt, issa no. case closed lol well said lmao
|
|
Caviar
Diamond Member
Queen X
Joined: October 2003
Posts: 31,088
My Charts
Pronouns: He/his
|
Post by Caviar on May 15, 2018 13:53:21 GMT -5
LMAO at Taylor and Beyonce legends. They aren't even in their 40s yet! What the hell
|
|
|
Post by when the pawn... on May 15, 2018 14:06:13 GMT -5
It does take time for the title to set in but I think Pink has been around long enough that she isn't. Maybe we wouldn't say it now but it is clear that Beyonce, Lady Gaga, Rihanna, and Nicki Minaj are either there or very close. Pink has been around longer than them all (except Beyonce if you count Destiny's Child) and I don't think it's happening. The lack of an iconic/ubiquitous song, no real defining style or influential album, etc. Nicki Minaj? Beyonce will clearly be considered a legend. Rihanna likely will be on some level. I think Lady Gaga could still go either way; she needs a true comeback to solidify her status because as of now she essentially just had a great few years. Nicki Minaj is nowhere near a legend. Her verse on “Monster” is probably still her main contribution to music. P!nk has been around for awhile, but as has been said, her actual music hasn’t left a legacy. She doesn’t have those career defining songs that other legendary artists have had. What is her I Will Always Love You, We Belong Together, My Heart Wll Go On, Like a Virgin, Single Ladies, etc? Plus those artists all have multiple signature hits. Misundazstood seemed like it might become an iconic album, but somehow it has been a bit forgotten, and she doesn’t have an album that holds the weight of a Rhythm Nation, Whitney Houston, Ray of Light, Emancipation of Mimi, etc. I included Nicki because I think she'll be a legend in her genre. To my knowledge, no other woman in rap has had this much and this consistent success, in rap and pop. Her influence will be felt for a long time. Beyonce, duh. Gaga is an easy one, IMO. Her impact, even just from 2009-2011 will be remembered and felt, she's an absolute icon. Her super bowl performance will be remembered, etc. And yes, Rihanna's STACK of major singles (headlined by the iconic "Umbrella" and "We Found Love") is probably enough but on top of that, she's a fashion icon and morphed into something of an albums artist/uptick in critical acclaim.
|
|
Soundcl🕤ck
Diamond Member
Joined: August 2017
Posts: 10,876
|
Post by Soundcl🕤ck on May 15, 2018 14:08:33 GMT -5
Yes, eventually. Two 10 million selling albums WW, 3 monster hits, big tour artist...
|
|
leonagwen
Diamond Member
#LiteralLegender
Joined: November 2011
Posts: 15,284
|
Post by leonagwen on May 15, 2018 14:20:50 GMT -5
LMAO at Taylor and Beyonce legends. They aren't even in their 40s yet! What the hell I didnt say they were.I said that they might be or could be in the future.In an earlier post I mentioned Michael Jackson, Prince, The Beatles and Madonna.You cant argue those 4.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 15, 2018 14:23:06 GMT -5
Yes, eventually. Two 10 million selling albums WW, 3 monster hits, big tour artist... Not enough to be a legend. He could also flop from here on out for all we know.
|
|
Caviar
Diamond Member
Queen X
Joined: October 2003
Posts: 31,088
My Charts
Pronouns: He/his
|
Post by Caviar on May 15, 2018 14:24:06 GMT -5
Yes, eventually. Two 10 million selling albums WW, 3 monster hits, big tour artist... Not enough to be a legend. He could also flop from here on out for all we know. So could everyone else listed. It's how you bounce back from a flop is what determines legend status.
|
|
Glove Slap
Administrator
Sweetheart
Downloading ༺༒༻ Possibilities
Joined: January 2007
Posts: 29,511
Staff
|
Post by Glove Slap on May 15, 2018 14:28:55 GMT -5
Yes, eventually. Two 10 million selling albums WW, 3 monster hits, big tour artist... Not enough to be a legend. He could also flop from here on out for all we know. If you consider Bruno to be in the running, or close to it, but not Ed, you may be taking too much of a US-centered view. In the States, I'd agree on him having a lot more work to do, but in the UK, I'd say he's one more successful era (even if it's not up to the level his three albums so far have done there) with the proper PR angles to start painting a narrative of him being a legend. I'll do another post that will expand on my general thoughts overall later, but whoever mentioned PR is correct. We had a thread about Taylor or Shania being a bigger legend in the long run or something like that a few years back, and it came up several times that Taylor was more in control and concerned about her having been huge be remembered, and she's nowhere near alone in that.
|
|