Gary
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Post by Gary on Mar 9, 2019 13:30:22 GMT -5
Shallow has been at or near the top of the sales chart for a while now
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Night Senses
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Post by Night Senses on Mar 9, 2019 13:40:40 GMT -5
It also ruined Justin Timberlake’s career, while Shallow did the opposite for Gaga, so we’ll see. Luckily for Justin, his solo career catalog is still strong and his last album is really his only "bad" album. He can make things right again if he does things better with his next release. I would argue that his last album was his second consecutive body of trash. The follow up to the first part of The 20/06 Experience was terrible. And no, that wasn’t a typo. |
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Post by Exclusive on Mar 9, 2019 14:43:07 GMT -5
Why do we keep recycling the same conversation over and over of whether a song is good or bad? It's bewildering at the point tbh. And what's more baffling is comparing songs of different genres with completely different messages and using chart peaks to justify these statements. Is there nothing better to do in these threads other filling it with nonsense and clusterf*cks?. Shout out to the few persons who actually contribute to the conversation providing stats and info related to the various chart metrics, but the rest...
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Post by Naos on Mar 9, 2019 14:46:15 GMT -5
Considering it wasn't even in the Top 20 the week prior, yeah, I think I can say that with pretty decent certainty. You used Can't Stop The Feeling being in iTunes as your example. Shallow has consistently been Top 10 on iTunes (or #1) since its release last September. 6 months. Ntbd Let's see then... Can't Stop The Feeling! - 62 weeks on the chart, 10 weeks at #1. Full digital chart run: 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-4-3-3-7-6-8-13-12-15-15-19-21-22-17-21-24-14-15-19-29-36-45-37-30-22-31-32-30-31-38-30-35-6-19-29-31-31-36-39-OUT-42-OUT-44-48-46-36-39-37-39-38-41-OUT-OUT. It came back in August of 2017, then fell out again. However, it returned again in February of 2018, to reach #14. Shallow - 23 weeks on the chart, 7 weeks at #1. Full digital chart run: 14-1-1-1-1-1-2-3-2-4-5-4-9-12-6-3-3-4-2-2-1-2-1 "Can't Stop The Feeling!"'s first week, it sold 379,000, compared to "Shallow"'s 58,000. By the end of 2017, the former has 3.2 million digital copies sold. I don't even think she has that much when adding streaming. While "Shallow" has had a decent run, it's nowhere near on the level that "Can't Stop The Feeling!" had. While she had more weeks in the top 10, and his song hovered around lower positions, he got his huge numbers through sheer longevity, the fact it wouldn't die. On the radio, too, which "Shallow" didn't have nowhere near as much. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Mar 9, 2019 14:52:36 GMT -5
LOL - why? Of course Can't Stop The feeling sold more than Shallow, Digital Sales were still a thing back then Also, Shallow doesn't have the 62 week longevity because it hasn't been out that long
The dangers of comparing success of songs in two different time periods. These stats don't work
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Post by thegreatdivine on Mar 9, 2019 14:56:52 GMT -5
Luckily for Justin, his solo career catalog is still strong and his last album is really his only "bad" album. He can make things right again if he does things better with his next release. I would argue that his last album was his second consecutive body of trash. The follow up to the first part of The 20/06 Experience was terrible. And no, that wasn’t a typo. I wouldn't go as far as calling the part 2 of the 20/20 experience TRASH, but it definitely didn't hold a candle to the first and it was a mostly forgettable sequel. I'll agree with you. He's now released two "bad" albums. |
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Post by thegreatdivine on Mar 9, 2019 15:01:09 GMT -5
Why do we keep recycling the same conversation over and over of whether a song is good or bad? It's bewildering at the point tbh. And what's more baffling is comparing songs of different genres with completely different messages and using chart peaks to justify these statements. Is there nothing better to do in these threads other filling it with nonsense and clusterf*cks?. Shout out to the few persons who actually contribute to the conversation providing stats and info related to the various chart metrics, but the rest...
It's really not that serious and I'm partly to blame for striking up this discussion, but this is a discussion thread after all. When we're not going over literally figures based on chart movements, it's always nice have music discussions that's not necessarily based on numbers and stats. If such discussions aren't for you, you can always ignore them or bring up something else for us to discuss or debate about. |
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Post by thegreatdivine on Mar 9, 2019 15:04:00 GMT -5
So why is the option of a music critic on quality of a song better than your opinion or my opinion? I never said it was. I specifically said I don't use the opinions of critics or anyone else decide how I engage with content. All I said was that the opinions of critics hold a lot of weight with a lot of people. I've seen movies perform better at the box office because of good reviews. I've seen albums move more units than predicted in their debut week because of good reviews. Reviews actively direct how some actors/movies win awards. They're not the most important thing, but they are important. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 9, 2019 15:08:52 GMT -5
CSTF 1 week at #1 with 64k points - during the peak of One Dance AND Panda. Shallow wouldn't have been close to #1 if its peak week was in May 2016 because OD and Panda were much bigger. #9 on the 2016 YE chart and #49 on the 2017 YE chart. 15 weeks in the top 10 (13 in the top 5). 73rd biggest hit of the decade using inverse points and top 40 using real points (yes, it's one of the unluckiest hits of the decade). #1 WW hit of the year in 2016. Shallow 1 week at #1 with 39k points. 3 weeks in the top 10 so far (I'll be surprised if it reaches 7+). Missed the 2018 YE and is locked for the 2019 YE but has no chance to go top 10 like CSTF did in '16. Decade-end chart? Not even close. Using Billboard stats? They are but one measurement among many others and that's not even taking into account how unreliable they can be when determining how big something is. These stats work great within context but alone, it's like finishing one edge of a jigsaw puzzle and dropping a mic. All you've got is an unfinished puzzle and a broken microphone. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 9, 2019 15:10:12 GMT -5
You used Can't Stop The Feeling being in iTunes as your example. Shallow has consistently been Top 10 on iTunes (or #1) since its release last September. 6 months. Ntbd Let's see then... Can't Stop The Feeling! - 62 weeks on the chart, 10 weeks at #1. Full digital chart run: 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-4-3-3-7-6-8-13-12-15-15-19-21-22-17-21-24-14-15-19-29-36-45-37-30-22-31-32-30-31-38-30-35-6-19-29-31-31-36-39-OUT-42-OUT-44-48-46-36-39-37-39-38-41-OUT-OUT. It came back in August of 2017, then fell out again. However, it returned again in February of 2018, to reach #14. Shallow - 23 weeks on the chart, 7 weeks at #1. Full digital chart run: 14-1-1-1-1-1-2-3-2-4-5-4-9-12-6-3-3-4-2-2-1-2-1 "Can't Stop The Feeling!"'s first week, it sold 379,000, compared to "Shallow"'s 58,000. By the end of 2017, the former has 3.2 million digital copies sold. I don't even think she has that much when adding streaming. While "Shallow" has had a decent run, it's nowhere near on the level that "Can't Stop The Feeling!" had. While she had more weeks in the top 10, and his song hovered around lower positions, he got his huge numbers through sheer longevity, the fact it wouldn't die. On the radio, too, which "Shallow" didn't have nowhere near as much. Yeah, sure. When digital sales have tanked in the last few years. Everyone and their mamas know both songs. tbh, I'm not even sure how JT's song came into the conversation. I don't even dispute that his song is bigger. For now. |
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Post by thegreatdivine on Mar 9, 2019 15:11:19 GMT -5
LOL - why? Of course Can't Stop The feeling sold more than Shallow, Digital Sales were still a thing back then Also, Shallow doesn't have the 62 week longevity because it hasn't been out that long
The dangers of comparing success of songs in two different time periods. These stats don't work
I agree, but still, Can't Stop the Feeling's digital sale numbers were really impressive for 2016. It was the best selling single that year if I'm not mistaken and much "bigger" hits were released that year like One Dance and Work. It's futile to compare songs/albums/artists of different eras, but we still do. We always will. People will compare the music icons of today with the music legends of decades ago despite the vast difference in conditions. It's just the way it is. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Mar 9, 2019 15:13:16 GMT -5
So why is the option of a music critic on quality of a song better than your opinion or my opinion? I never said it was. I specifically said I don't use the opinions of critics or anyone else decide how I engage with content. All I said was that the opinions of critics hold a lot of weight with a lot of people. I've seen movies perform better at the box office because of good reviews. I've seen albums move units than predicted in their debut week because of good reviews. Reviews actively direct how some actors/movies win awards. They're not the most important thing, but they are important. A review of a critic is an opinion, no different than yours or mine. I have seen movies and albums perform well because of good reviews, I have also seen movies and albums perform well without the support of professional critics. I have also seen the reverse, critically acclaimed albums and movies that fail. Sometimes, I have also enjoyed movies that had poor reviews and hated movies that had good reviews. In the end the professional critic is just offering an opinion. Success or failure of an album or a movie is not dependent on professional critics, it is just another opinion. The only reason it is different than yours or mine is more people will read those than the opinion I just typed up. Can it have an impact, yes. Does it always? No. In the end, it is about whether it resonates with the entertainment public, who ultimately will decide if it is a success or not. That would be you, me and anyone else who listens to an album or watches a movie. |
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korbel16
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Post by korbel16 on Mar 9, 2019 15:39:41 GMT -5
lmao
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Post by Naos on Mar 9, 2019 15:48:42 GMT -5
Let's see then... Can't Stop The Feeling! - 62 weeks on the chart, 10 weeks at #1. Full digital chart run: 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-4-3-3-7-6-8-13-12-15-15-19-21-22-17-21-24-14-15-19-29-36-45-37-30-22-31-32-30-31-38-30-35-6-19-29-31-31-36-39-OUT-42-OUT-44-48-46-36-39-37-39-38-41-OUT-OUT. It came back in August of 2017, then fell out again. However, it returned again in February of 2018, to reach #14. Shallow - 23 weeks on the chart, 7 weeks at #1. Full digital chart run: 14-1-1-1-1-1-2-3-2-4-5-4-9-12-6-3-3-4-2-2-1-2-1 "Can't Stop The Feeling!"'s first week, it sold 379,000, compared to "Shallow"'s 58,000. By the end of 2017, the former has 3.2 million digital copies sold. I don't even think she has that much when adding streaming. While "Shallow" has had a decent run, it's nowhere near on the level that "Can't Stop The Feeling!" had. While she had more weeks in the top 10, and his song hovered around lower positions, he got his huge numbers through sheer longevity, the fact it wouldn't die. On the radio, too, which "Shallow" didn't have nowhere near as much. Yeah, sure. When digital sales have tanked in the last few years. Everyone and their mamas know both songs. tbh, I'm not even sure how JT's song came into the conversation. I don't even dispute that his song is bigger. For now. "Shallow"'s streaming certainly isn't making up for it, so that's not really an excuse. Especially since JT's song is still in the Top 200 on iTunes. When we look at relative chart performance, Timberlake's song is still likely to do better on the Hot 100. I doubt "Shallow" will even last 52 weeks. Shallow is bigger than every number one of the last few years minus probably a couple Ariana songs and I Like It 👄 That's how. "Few" generally means three or four I'd say. And this is very false. I pointed out "Can't Stop The Feeling!" specifically because it was a soundtrack song. Other songs from the past couple years obviously bigger than "Shallow": "Hello", "Sorry", "Work", "One Dance", "Closer", "Shape Of You", "Despacito", "Look What You Made Me Do", "God's Plan", "Girls Like You". Mostly crap songs, but still. Bigger. |
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shangrila
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Post by shangrila on Mar 9, 2019 16:01:55 GMT -5
How much would 22 Million US Views on youtube be in chart points?
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fhas
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Post by fhas on Mar 9, 2019 16:59:01 GMT -5
How much would 22 Million US Views on youtube be in chart points? 9,778 points |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Mar 9, 2019 17:06:25 GMT -5
It also ruined Justin Timberlake’s career, while Shallow did the opposite for Gaga, so we’ll see. How did "CSTF" ruin Timberlake's career? And more so, you can't really compare the effects of the two until Gaga does something else. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 17:49:07 GMT -5
Shallow is a moderate hit that got lucky to be #1 on the Hot 100. Just Dance, Poker Face, and Bad Romance are still Lady Gaga's biggest hits IMO.
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Post by Naos on Mar 9, 2019 18:09:00 GMT -5
LOL - why? Of course Can't Stop The feeling sold more than Shallow, Digital Sales were still a thing back then Also, Shallow doesn't have the 62 week longevity because it hasn't been out that long
The dangers of comparing success of songs in two different time periods. These stats don't work
Except not really. It isn't a "different time period". That'd be like saying you can only compare songs released within the same year. It's longevity won't last that long. And as I already said, its streaming does not make up for the sales loss, therefore you can't use that as an excuse. Even looking at Hot 100 performance, Timberlake's song is far better performing than Gaga's, which was hovering around the 20s prior to the Oscars. And it seems like it'll have a quick descent down back to that area. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Mar 9, 2019 18:24:02 GMT -5
You can compare any time period you want if you adjust for the differences.
But first 2016 is a different period than now
In 2016 #1's were averaging 30M a week in streaming and 150K a week in digital sales
The last year by comparison #1's were streaming 57.7M a week and 55K a week in digital sales
So clearly two different time periods two different markets
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Mar 9, 2019 18:28:57 GMT -5
As far as "different time periods" goes, I will go one further and say last week is a different time period than this week.
Albeit the closer the two time periods are the fewer the things you need to consider to make an even comparision
But yeah 2016, when Justin Timberlake was hitting with that song, dramatically different market
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Mar 9, 2019 20:30:54 GMT -5
As far as "different time periods" goes, I will go one further and say last week is a different time period than this week. Albeit the closer the two time periods are the fewer the things you need to consider to make an even comparision But yeah 2016, when Justin Timberlake was hitting with that song, dramatically different market We can just look at their chart runs to see what's bigger. Unless "Shallow" now sticks around, "CSTF" is going to have a lot more weeks in the top 2, top 5, etc. Not sure how we got stuck on comparing it to "CSTF," though, when Rose "Payola" Nylund said it was bigger than every #1 the past few years except some Ariana songs and "I Like It." I think that's trolling, though. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Mar 9, 2019 20:57:17 GMT -5
Not arguing the choice over what is better or bigger or whatver. It really doesn't matter. I am questioning the methods used to arrive at the conclusion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 22:01:40 GMT -5
I can't see Lady Gaga's next single doing well at all
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g8erboi
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Post by g8erboi on Mar 9, 2019 22:06:21 GMT -5
I can't see Lady Gaga's next single doing well at all  |
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owenlovesmusic
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Post by owenlovesmusic on Mar 9, 2019 22:34:13 GMT -5
Robbery is going top 10 next week
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mako
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formerly known as "the one letter"
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Post by mako on Mar 9, 2019 22:34:59 GMT -5
I agree with this statement. Why do we have pointless conversations every damn week? |
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pnobelysk
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Post by pnobelysk on Mar 9, 2019 23:30:04 GMT -5
The sales arguments between can’t stop the feeling and shallow are silly. Digital sales collapsed and are only becoming more obsolete as the months (not years go by)
Can’t stop the feeling was the only song from that Time frame to sell 3 million (closer is super close if not already there) showing it’s a leader
Shallow will be one of three songs released in 2018 to pass 1 million in sales.
Gods plan has sold 1.05 million and girls like you is around ~975k. In a few months time shallow could be the best selling song from 2018 and showing it’s a leader.
Both songs are sales monsters and neither was bigger than the other in the sales department when adjudsted for the decline in digital sales
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Mar 9, 2019 23:32:41 GMT -5
The sales arguments between can’t stop the feeling and shallow are silly. Digital sales collapsed and are only becoming more obsolete as the months (not years go by) Can’t stop the feeling was the only song from that Time frame to sell 3 million (closer is super close if not already there) showing it’s a leader Shallow will be one of three songs released in 2018 to pass 1 million in sales. Gods plan has sold 1.05 million and girls like you is around ~975k. In a few months time shallow could be the best selling song from 2018 and showing it’s a leader. Both songs are sales monsters and neither was bigger than the other in the sales department when adjudsted for the decline in digital sales Why are only sales being compared? |
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Post by Naos on Mar 9, 2019 23:37:18 GMT -5
You could just look at SPS, and just general chart runs... and Timberlake's song has done far better in both regards.
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