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Post by thegreatdivine on Mar 9, 2019 9:38:03 GMT -5
Lmao are people seriously saying that Nice For What is a better song than Shallow? Yes. Fans and a ton of critics agree with that opinion. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 9, 2019 9:41:50 GMT -5
I would also love to live on this planet where Shallow is as big a song as you're insinuating it is. Better hurry! Space is limited |
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Post by thegreatdivine on Mar 9, 2019 9:41:53 GMT -5
It also ruined Justin Timberlake’s career, while Shallow did the opposite for Gaga, so we’ll see. If anything "ruined Justin Timberlake's career", it would be his last album. That entire era for him was a misfire. Almost every single thing he did. Throw in his Super Bowl halftime performance in there, too. His tour was fire, though. I saw him once and it was incredible. Luckily for Justin, his solo career catalog is still strong and his last album is really his only "bad" album. He can make things right again if he does things better with his next release. |
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Post by thegreatdivine on Mar 9, 2019 10:21:06 GMT -5
So, a snippet featuring PARTYNEXTDOOR and Rihanna vocals just leaked online. Could be something, could be nothing. Could be a reference track for Rihanna. It's noteworthy because PARTYNEXTDOOR has written 3 songs for Rihanna since 2016.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Mar 9, 2019 10:46:27 GMT -5
And released in two different points in time. In other words they never went head to head. Who thought one song was better than the other? Who knows, who cares.
"Quality" like other catch-words in these Hot 100 threads, subject to opinion
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 9, 2019 11:08:27 GMT -5
I didn’t say better when I made my first post ‘comparing’ the two. I said bigger. :kii:
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Post by thegreatdivine on Mar 9, 2019 11:09:45 GMT -5
Yes. Fans and a ton of critics agree with that opinion. Which fans? Drake fans? The Scorpion album has a 67 on Metacritic, while the ASIB soundtrack has an 88. Shallow has 380M views, 3M likes, 84k dislikes on Youtube Nice For What has 300M views, 2.1M likes, 119k dislikes on Youtube Either way, it’s a pointless converstion. You can’t really compare two songs from such contrasting genres in terms of quality. What do streams or YouTube views have to do with how good a song is? What does the metacritic scores of the album a song is on have to do with how good a song is? You just listed a bunch of pointless metrics to support your argument that Shallow is a better song and then went on to say it's a pointless conversation to have since they're not songs in the same genre. I'm just here confused. |
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tanooki
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Post by tanooki on Mar 9, 2019 11:13:32 GMT -5
If you think the song is better, then that's just your thing. I personally prefer Nice For What, but that's because I find hip hop songs more quality than pop ballads. But that's my taste, all y'all gave different tastes.
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Post by thegreatdivine on Mar 9, 2019 11:18:30 GMT -5
If you think the song is better, then that's just your thing. I personally prefer Nice For What, but that's because I find hip hop songs more quality than pop ballads. But that's my taste, all y'all gave different tastes. I wasn't even trying to diss Shallow. Those kinds of songs aren't my thing typically, but I've grown to love Shallow. I said what I said based on the reception Nice for What got on arrival. Every critic lauded the song and that carried on till the end of the year when it found placements on a lot of year-end lists. I'm not just saying it because I wanna say it. I was actually surprised at how many critics thought Nice for What was one of Drake's best songs - not just one of his best singles, and one of the best songs of last year. People liked God's Plan and In My Feelings too but you won't ever catch me saying they're better songs than Shallow simply because they're catchy or were #1 hits so I don't know why numbers or figures were ever brought up. |
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lazer
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Post by lazer on Mar 9, 2019 11:30:22 GMT -5
I don't think you can compare pop and hip hop songs. Both have qualities of their own.
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Post by thegreatdivine on Mar 9, 2019 11:43:41 GMT -5
What do streams or YouTube views have to do with how good a song is? What does the metacritic scores of the album a song is on have to do with how good a song is? You just listed a bunch of pointless metrics to suport your argument that shallow is a better song and then went on to say it's a pointless conversation to have since they're not songs in the same genre. I'm just here confused. If you reread my post, you’ll see that I posted the likes/dislikes ratio of Shallow vs Nice For What. What is pointless about that metric? That data needs the Youtube views for context, which is why I posted that. I posted the Metacritic scores of the albums, because I don’t know of any numerical indicator for critical acclaim of individual songs. I believe the like/dislikes metric I posted, plus the reactions I’ve seen online indicate that it’s seen as a “better” song by the GP, but that I don’t agree with comparing songs from different genres like this. Hip-hop fans will like Nice For What, pop fans will like Shallow. What is there to compare? Vocals? Melody? Emotion? You can go to the Wikipedia pages of said songs and see what critics had to say about them, that's one way. Also, sites like Pitchfork give out "Best New Track" honors to new singles. Nice for What got that, Shallow didn't. You can also use the overall reception a song has in pop culture to tell how good it is or how much people think it's good. I never said Shallow was a bad song, all I said was that it wasn't as good as Nice for What and I didn't mean "good" as a personal preference, I meant as a song that was reviewed and critically acclaimed. If I was just talking about personal preference, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now because when you use that, it's all subjective. I love Drake's last album and think it was a solid body of work, but critics and reviews disagree with that opinion. Also using things like likes on YouTube as a way to measure how good a song/video is will never be accurate. There are videos I've disliked on YouTube simply because I could and not because they were terrible necessarily. I'm sure other people do the same. They watch a video they don't like and they dislike it and move on, doesn't make said video bad. |
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Post by thegreatdivine on Mar 9, 2019 11:48:08 GMT -5
I don't think you can compare pop and hip hop songs. Both have qualities of their own. I can understand this, but I feel like all music can be compared based on their quality and reception. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Mar 9, 2019 11:53:05 GMT -5
Who defines quality? Whose opinion of reception?
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 9, 2019 11:58:34 GMT -5
Shallow won Oscars and Grammys and everyone’s grandmother and newborn knows it.
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Post by thegreatdivine on Mar 9, 2019 12:02:51 GMT -5
Who defines quality? Whose opinion of reception? The opinions of critics, especially a large pool of critics. Isn't that what we use to judge the quality all all art? The songs and albums that critics of various publications love are the albums that make the year-end lists of those publications and those year-end lists are usually what are used to judge the best songs/albums released in a calendar year. People also tend to favor the opinions of critics. Lots of people still only see movies or listen to albums critics say are good. The general reception of a song/album also matters because usually when a lot of fans don't enjoy something, it's usually because it isn't good. I don't use any of those to determine what I consume/don't consume. If I'm curious about something, I'll engage with it regardless of what people have said about it, but that's just me. A lot of other people are different and rely a lot on the reception a piece of work has received before deciding whether or not to engage with it. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 9, 2019 12:04:18 GMT -5
I would argue the opinions of peers are the most valuable when it comes to any profession.
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Post by thegreatdivine on Mar 9, 2019 12:05:26 GMT -5
Shallow won Oscars and Grammys and everyone’s grandmother and newborn knows it. And? Adele's 25 won 5 Grammys and was a massively successful and popular album, but a lot of critics and fans didn't think it was a good as 21. A lot more people didn't think it was a good as a bunch of the albums it was up against for those Grammys it won. Both instances can be true. Commercial success doesn't equate to great quality of art. |
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Post by thegreatdivine on Mar 9, 2019 12:08:53 GMT -5
I would argue the opinions of peers are the most valuable when it comes to any profession. I wouldn't say so, especially in entertainment. I could see it for the work place, though. A lot of actors/musicians kiss the asses of their peers. People release just okay/decent albums/put on decent performances in their movies and their peers overexaggerate their quality because that's what most celebrities do. They think everyone's work is great and everyone is the best person ever, lol. Very few celebs are truly honest because if they're honest about the work of a peer and it isn't favorable, it gets interpreted as shade or hate by fans/the media. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Mar 9, 2019 12:18:41 GMT -5
So why is the option of a music critic on quality of a song better than your opinion or my opinion?
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 9, 2019 12:22:37 GMT -5
Shallow won Oscars and Grammys and everyone’s grandmother and newborn knows it. And? Adele's 25 won 5 Grammys and was a massively successful and popular album, but a lot of critics and fans didn't think it was a good as 21. A lot more people didn't think it was a good as a bunch of the albums it was up against for those Grammys it won. Both instances can be true. Commercial success doesn't equate to great quality of art. I will once again repeat - I never once said “better”. I said “bigger”. All of this talk about better is pointless because we like what we like and we don’t need to justify it for anyone else. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 9, 2019 12:25:34 GMT -5
I would argue the opinions of peers are the most valuable when it comes to any profession. I wouldn't say so, especially in entertainment. I could see it for the work place, though. A lot of actors/musicians kiss the asses of their peers. People release just okay/decent albums/put on decent performances in their movies and their peers overexaggerate their quality because that's what most celebrities do. They think everyone's work is great and everyone is the best person ever, lol. Very few celebs are truly honest because if they're honest about the work of a peer and it isn't favorable, it gets interpreted as shade or hate by fans/the media. What you’re saying is two different things. Basically you’re saying people in entertainment say what they think people want to hear, or say things to avoid getting trashed. I don’t disagree. I was referring to their opinion - which most of the time we don’t know because, as you said, they often filter it. But when it comes to their actual opinion, I would trust it more than anyone else because they’re the experts. |
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Post by Naos on Mar 9, 2019 12:38:08 GMT -5
And? Adele's 25 won 5 Grammys and was a massively successful and popular album, but a lot of critics and fans didn't think it was a good as 21. A lot more people didn't think it was a good as a bunch of the albums it was up against for those Grammys it won. Both instances can be true. Commercial success doesn't equate to great quality of art. I will once again repeat - I never once said “better”. I said “bigger”. All of this talk about better is pointless because we like what we like and we don’t need to justify it for anyone else. This has not really indicative of reality. "Can't Stop The Feeling!" is STILL in the Top 200 on iTunes, for Christ's sake. I really doubt "Shallow" is going to have sales (or equivalents) do that well. |
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pancakes
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Post by pancakes on Mar 9, 2019 12:46:34 GMT -5
To be fair to Shallow, songs like it rarely get critical acclaim (from the likes of Pitchfork or poptimism in general) due to their middle-of-the-road qualities. Artists like Ed Sheeran and Coldplay (and their derivatives) are similar examples.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Mar 9, 2019 12:54:55 GMT -5
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fhas
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Post by fhas on Mar 9, 2019 13:03:52 GMT -5
CSTF
1 week at #1 with 64k points - during the peak of One Dance AND Panda. Shallow wouldn't have been close to #1 if its peak week was in May 2016 because OD and Panda were much bigger.
#9 on the 2016 YE chart and #49 on the 2017 YE chart.
15 weeks in the top 10 (13 in the top 5).
73rd biggest hit of the decade using inverse points and top 40 using real points (yes, it's one of the unluckiest hits of the decade).
#1 WW hit of the year in 2016.
Shallow
1 week at #1 with 39k points.
3 weeks in the top 10 so far (I'll be surprised if it reaches 7+).
Missed the 2018 YE and is locked for the 2019 YE but has no chance to go top 10 like CSTF did in '16.
Decade-end chart? Not even close.
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Au$tin
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Post by Au$tin on Mar 9, 2019 13:08:13 GMT -5
Why?
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Xander
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Post by Xander on Mar 9, 2019 13:10:50 GMT -5
Shallow is a terrible song, I don’t understand why it won best original song in every film award show. All the stars was 10x better. It deserved to win over shallow. But yes, nice for what is definitely better.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 9, 2019 13:23:16 GMT -5
I will once again repeat - I never once said “better”. I said “bigger”. All of this talk about better is pointless because we like what we like and we don’t need to justify it for anyone else. This has not really indicative of reality. "Can't Stop The Feeling!" is STILL in the Top 200 on iTunes, for Christ's sake. I really doubt "Shallow" is going to have sales (or equivalents) do that well.Comments like these have been made since the song came out. Even by me. They also hold no bearing to anything right now because none of us can tell the future. |
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Post by Naos on Mar 9, 2019 13:25:35 GMT -5
This has not really indicative of reality. "Can't Stop The Feeling!" is STILL in the Top 200 on iTunes, for Christ's sake. I really doubt "Shallow" is going to have sales (or equivalents) do that well.Comments like these have been made since the song came out. Even by me. They also hold no bearing to anything right now because none of us can tell the future. Considering it wasn't even in the Top 20 the week prior, yeah, I think I can say that with pretty decent certainty. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 9, 2019 13:30:22 GMT -5
Comments like these have been made since the song came out. Even by me. They also hold no bearing to anything right now because none of us can tell the future. Considering it wasn't even in the Top 20 the week prior, yeah, I think I can say that with pretty decent certainty. You used Can't Stop The Feeling being in iTunes as your example. Shallow has consistently been Top 10 on iTunes (or #1) since its release last September. 6 months. Ntbd |
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