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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 16:48:56 GMT -5
Did you not watch the 2017 vmas or American idol or the witness videos Like it was mentioned earlier, one underperforming era is not diminishing a whole legacy. Make it make sense. Embarrassing yourself does, I'm not talking bout whiteness failing to get more than one song in the top 40
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 16:51:23 GMT -5
Actual impact on pop culture not just payola and hits cuz of remixes and discounts The entire Teenage Dream era was a pop culture moment. But with your remixes and discounts counter argument, I guess you're saying her whole legacy lies with E.T. and Last Friday Night? When has Katy used payola? If you're talking radio deals, most major artists do that when dropping a new single. Did you not watch the 2017 vmas or American idol or the witness videos First off, barely anyone watches the vmas anymore. Idol has had a decent ratings but I admit they've been slipping lately. I guess that means Lionel Richie's and Luke Bryan's legacies have gone out the window too... As for the Witness music video views: Chained To The Rhythm - 570 million Bon Appetit - 635 million Swish Swish - 520 million Hey Hey Hey - 111 million Not bad for a flop era I suppose... Was it? I remember Born This Way, Loud, and especially 21 being much bigger moments, Katy was just radio, those three albums had pop culture impact, and most if not all the tennage dreams singles are forgotten, only firework is semi remembered. And what are Youtube views suppose to prove? Those can be brought.
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wjr15
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Post by wjr15 on Apr 1, 2019 17:01:13 GMT -5
The entire Teenage Dream era was a pop culture moment. But with your remixes and discounts counter argument, I guess you're saying her whole legacy lies with E.T. and Last Friday Night? When has Katy used payola? If you're talking radio deals, most major artists do that when dropping a new single. First off, barely anyone watches the vmas anymore. Idol has had a decent ratings but I admit they've been slipping lately. I guess that means Lionel Richie's and Luke Bryan's legacies have gone out the window too... As for the Witness music video views: Chained To The Rhythm - 570 million Bon Appetit - 635 million Swish Swish - 520 million Hey Hey Hey - 111 million Not bad for a flop era I suppose... Was it? I remember Born This Way, Loud, and especially 21 being much bigger moments, Katy was just radio, those three albums had pop culture impact, and most if not all the tennage dreams singles are forgotten, only firework is semi remembered.Β And what are Youtube views suppose to prove? Those can be brought. Born This Way the single was a big moment, the era was not. It was still a very successful era tho. How was Loud a bigger moment? The music was the same radio-pondering dancepop that Teenage Dream was. Come to think of it, BTW was the same radio dancepop stuff too. Youtube cracks down on bought views and fixes the numbers accordingly. Obviously you hate Katy, but that doesn't diminish her legacy. Hate on her all you want, because like she said keep calm honey, imma stick around, for more than a minute, get used to it
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Post by Wave. on Apr 1, 2019 17:10:19 GMT -5
Like it was mentioned earlier, one underperforming era is not diminishing a whole legacy. Make it make sense. Embarrassing yourself does, I'm not talking bout whiteness failing to get more than one song in the top 40 Did she say was embarrassing herself or did YOU say it?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 17:12:13 GMT -5
Was it? I remember Born This Way, Loud, and especially 21 being much bigger moments, Katy was just radio, those three albums had pop culture impact, and most if not all the tennage dreams singles are forgotten, only firework is semi remembered. And what are Youtube views suppose to prove? Those can be brought. Born This Way the single was a big moment, the era was not. It was still a very successful era tho. How was Loud a bigger moment? The music was the same radio-pondering dancepop that Teenage Dream was. Come to think of it, BTW was the same radio dancepop stuff too. Youtube cracks down on bought views and fixes the numbers accordingly. Obviously you hate Katy, but that doesn't diminish her legacy. Hate on her all you want, because like she said keep calm honey, imma stick around, for more than a minute, get used to itLoud and Born this way had people talking. The tennage Dream singles did not. Everyone was talking about Rihanna's red hair, her comeback, her international success, the Man Down video sparked ton of controversy and people still talk about it today.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 17:12:46 GMT -5
Embarrassing yourself does, I'm not talking bout whiteness failing to get more than one song in the top 40 Did she say was embarrassing herself or did YOU say it? What are you even talking about, Katy is embarrassing herself a lot and hasn't stopped.
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gabe
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Post by gabe on Apr 1, 2019 17:16:02 GMT -5
Did she say was embarrassing herself or did YOU say it? What are you even talking about, Katy is embarrassing herself a lot and hasn't stopped. damn you talking like you're the millionaire and she's the annoying & insecure keyboard warrior
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wjr15
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Post by wjr15 on Apr 1, 2019 17:16:42 GMT -5
Born This Way the single was a big moment, the era was not. It was still a very successful era tho. How was Loud a bigger moment? The music was the same radio-pondering dancepop that Teenage Dream was. Come to think of it, BTW was the same radio dancepop stuff too. Youtube cracks down on bought views and fixes the numbers accordingly. Obviously you hate Katy, but that doesn't diminish her legacy. Hate on her all you want, because like she said keep calm honey, imma stick around, for more than a minute, get used to itLoud and Born this way had people talking. The tennage Dream singles did not. Everyone was talking about Rihanna's red hair, her comeback, her international success, the Man Down video sparked ton of controversy and people still talk about it today. Obviously you hate Katy, but that doesn't diminish her legacy.
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Post by Wave. on Apr 1, 2019 17:24:57 GMT -5
Did she say was embarrassing herself or did YOU say it? What are you even talking about, Katy is embarrassing herself a lot and hasn't stopped. Because you keep saying she embarrassed herself. YOU keep saying that doesn't mean the overall consensus thought that. But either way, her legacy is still in tact, not diminishing, this is her first underperformance out of all of her erasπ€·π½ββοΈ
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 17:28:43 GMT -5
What are you even talking about, Katy is embarrassing herself a lot and hasn't stopped. Because you keep saying she embarrassed herself. YOU keep saying that doesn't mean the overall consensus thought that. But either way, her legacy is still in tact, not diminishing, this is her first underperformance out of all of her erasπ€·π½ββοΈ Why do you keep saying that I'm not saying that witness flopping is what ruining her legacy
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 17:29:22 GMT -5
What are you even talking about, Katy is embarrassing herself a lot and hasn't stopped. damn you talking like you're the millionaire and she's the annoying & insecure keyboard warrior Please I'm not insecure I love myself, that doesn't change the fact that Katy is quickly removing her legacy
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Post by Wave. on Apr 1, 2019 17:36:39 GMT -5
Because you keep saying she embarrassed herself. YOU keep saying that doesn't mean the overall consensus thought that. But either way, her legacy is still in tact, not diminishing, this is her first underperformance out of all of her erasπ€·π½ββοΈ Why do you keep saying that I'm not saying that witness flopping is what ruining her legacy Cause of ONE flop tho? Ok.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 17:38:40 GMT -5
Why do you keep saying that I'm not saying that witness flopping is what ruining her legacy Cause of ONE flop tho? Ok. It isn't the flop that is ruining her legacy are you reading what I'm saying Witness could of had 6 top tens that all spent a year on the charts and she would still be ruining her legacy cuz of her antics
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Post by leonagwen on Apr 1, 2019 17:41:39 GMT -5
Cause of ONE flop tho? Ok. It isn't the flop that is ruining her legacy are you reading what I'm sayingΒ Β Witness could of had 6 top tens that all spent a year on the charts and she would still be ruining her legacy cuz of her antics What antics? Explain
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 17:43:50 GMT -5
It isn't the flop that is ruining her legacy are you reading what I'm saying Witness could of had 6 top tens that all spent a year on the charts and she would still be ruining her legacy cuz of her antics What antics? Explain Like I said, kissing someone on American idol who didn't wanna be kissed, The entire VMA hosting, the bon appite video, claiming her album would be potlical but it was just basic pop, shaving her head and wearing ugly wigs, her styling, releasing 365 etc
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Post by wjr15 on Apr 1, 2019 17:55:52 GMT -5
Like I said, kissing someone on American idol who didn't wanna be kissed, The entire VMA hosting, the bon appite video, claiming her album would be potlical but it was just basic pop, shaving her head and wearing ugly wigs, her styling, releasing 365 etc She said it would be purposeful pop, not political pop. And it was pretty purposeful to me. She just decided to release the two least purposeful pop songs as singles 2 & 3. Witness, Hey Hey Hey, Power, Deja Vu, Chained To The Rhythm, Bigger Than Me, and Pendulum all fit in with the purposeful theme. How was the Bon Appetit video diminishing her legacy? It's the most successful music video of the era. And not a haircut destroying a legacy! I thought we left this nonsense in 2017? 365 is a bop. Too bad Katy did barely any promo for it outside of a music video.
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Post by Wave. on Apr 1, 2019 17:57:08 GMT -5
Cause of ONE flop tho? Ok. It isn't the flop that is ruining her legacy are you reading what I'm sayingΒ Β Witness could of had 6 top tens that all spent a year on the charts and she would still be ruining her legacy cuz of her antics "Antics" don't always reflect the chart performance but go off you're right. Shes falling off.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 18:31:19 GMT -5
Like I said, kissing someone on American idol who didn't wanna be kissed, The entire VMA hosting, the bon appite video, claiming her album would be potlical but it was just basic pop, shaving her head and wearing ugly wigs, her styling, releasing 365 etc She said it would be purposeful pop, not political pop. And it was pretty purposeful to me. She just decided to release the two least purposeful pop songs as singles 2 & 3. Witness, Hey Hey Hey, Power, Deja Vu, Chained To The Rhythm, Bigger Than Me, and Pendulum all fit in with the purposeful theme. How was the Bon Appetit video diminishing her legacy? It's the most successful music video of the era. And not a haircut destroying a legacy! I thought we left this nonsense in 2017? 365 is a bop. Too bad Katy did barely any promo for it outside of a music video. It's was successful because it was so embarrassing people wanted to see it lmao, and it's ruined it cuz she looked terrible simple facts, and 365 was a terrible song lmao pls
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Post by Caviar on Apr 1, 2019 18:50:11 GMT -5
Lmao itβs April fools. Iβm not falling for your shit.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Apr 1, 2019 19:48:11 GMT -5
I don't think one underperforming era can ruin a legacy. Unless that era was also particularly bad or was, for some reason, a high profile flop. Katy could very well come back from that with no harm done. Or she might not and people would still remember her for her hits and nothing else. When we think about Paula Abdul, do we also think about her underperforming 1995 era Head Over Heels? I never hear about that.
My purpose for starting this thread was to think of situations and examples where an artist somehow sabotaged their legacy (or potential legacy) in some way and an underperforming album typically isn't going to do that.
I meant to add another example to my initial post and that was with U2. I feel like by the late 90s and into the 2000s, they were hailed as one of the biggest longterm rock bands of the time, but as they continued to release albums and remain visible (mainly through Bono's humanitarian efforts as well), not to mention the free iTunes album fiasco, they seemed to have fallen pretty far from where it looked like they were headed.
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Post by wjr15 on Apr 1, 2019 20:11:56 GMT -5
My purpose for starting this thread was to think of situations and examples where an artist somehow sabotaged their legacy (or potential legacy) in some way and an underperforming album typically isn't going to do that. When I think of an artist sabotaging their own legacy, I usually think about an artist who has committed a horrible crime. R. Kelly is the first to come to mind. I refuse to listen to any of his songs anymore and I know many people feel the same. In my opinion, his musical legacy is ruined because it will always be overshadowed by the crimes outlined in Surviving R. Kelly. Another one that comes to mind (at least for me) is Michael Jackson. He has a legendary discography with a lot of amazing songs but I really have trouble listening to his music lately after the HBO documentary and I know many other people who do. However, I'm not sure if MJ is considered such a legend that no matter what accusations he has against him, his legacy will never be diminished. MJ's music still has a large and very vocal group of supporters. I just wonder if it's possible to get so big to the point where no matter what you do, your legacy won't be diminished?
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Apr 1, 2019 22:22:25 GMT -5
My purpose for starting this thread was to think of situations and examples where an artist somehow sabotaged their legacy (or potential legacy) in some way and an underperforming album typically isn't going to do that. When I think of an artist sabotaging their own legacy, I usually think about an artist who has committed a horrible crime. Good point. "Sabotage" is probably a strong word to use, but still I'd be looking for examples where a legacy was tarnished or just lessened due to the activities of the artists themselves, usually unintentional.
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wjr15
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Post by wjr15 on Apr 1, 2019 22:27:21 GMT -5
I don't really follow country music, but would Dixie Chicks count?
I remember hearing after they spoke out against Bush, a lot of radio stations stopped playing their music. But did stations stop playing their current music or did stations also purge their recurrents too? If radio stopped playing their recurrents, I'd say that's a hit on their legacy; if radio stopped just playing their current outputs, I'd say their legacy wasn't hurt.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Apr 1, 2019 22:32:16 GMT -5
I don't really follow country music, but would Dixie Chicks count? I remember hearing after they spoke out against Bush, a lot of radio stations stopped playing their music. But did stations stop playing their current music or did stations also purge their recurrents too? If radio stopped playing their recurrents, I'd say that's a hit on their legacy; if radio stopped just playing their current outputs, I'd say their legacy wasn't hurt. That's an interesting one. I feel like their legacy BECAME all about that incident and is probably more focused on the events that happened after that (including that one album) than the 3 super successful albums that came before. That's an example where an artist's legacy changed completely and they probably have little chance of ever being able to refocus themselves to be about the music. They'll always have a political slant to them. But while they obviously took a hit after that, I do feel like they'll have a place in music history that puts them in a more positive and distinctive light. If that hadn't happened at all, it'd be curious to see where they'd be now. Would they still be releasing country albums and how long until their success started to peter out - which it likely would have sooner than later anyway.
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Post by mkarns on Apr 1, 2019 22:51:24 GMT -5
I don't really follow country music, but would Dixie Chicks count? I remember hearing after they spoke out against Bush, a lot of radio stations stopped playing their music. But did stations stop playing their current music or did stations also purge their recurrents too? If radio stopped playing their recurrents, I'd say that's a hit on their legacy; if radio stopped just playing their current outputs, I'd say their legacy wasn't hurt. That's an interesting one. I feel like their legacy BECAME all about that incident and is probably more focused on the events that happened after that (including that one album) than the 3 super successful albums that came before. That's an example where an artist's legacy changed completely and they probably have little chance of ever being able to refocus themselves to be about the music. They'll always have a political slant to them. But while they obviously took a hit after that, I do feel like they'll have a place in music history that puts them in a more positive and distinctive light. If that hadn't happened at all, it'd be curious to see where they'd be now. Would they still be releasing country albums and how long until their success started to peter out - which it likely would have sooner than later anyway. The Dixie Chicks didn't exactly refocus themselves away from that incident by the time of their next album (2006) when they put out a leadoff single called "Not Ready To Make Nice". Though by then their anti-Bush, antiwar stance was far more popular than when they first made it.
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Post by like2throw on Apr 1, 2019 22:53:37 GMT -5
I don't think one underperforming era can ruin a legacy. Unless that era was also particularly bad or was, for some reason, a high profile flop. Katy could very well come back from that with no harm done. Or she might not and people would still remember her for her hits and nothing else. When we think about Paula Abdul, do we also think about her underperforming 1995 era Head Over Heels? I never hear about that. My purpose for starting this thread was to think of situations and examples where an artist somehow sabotaged their legacy (or potential legacy) in some way and an underperforming album typically isn't going to do that. I meant to add another example to my initial post and that was with U2. I feel like by the late 90s and into the 2000s, they were hailed as one of the biggest longterm rock bands of the time, but as they continued to release albums and remain visible (mainly through Bono's humanitarian efforts as well), not to mention the free iTunes album fiasco, they seemed to have fallen pretty far from where it looked like they were headed. U2 were already headed in that direction after releasing Pop in the late 90s. The only difference is they released two successful rock βcomebackβ albums with a string a singles afterwards, but by that point they were already treading old ground. I donβt think their legacy was going to be more than what it currently is.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Apr 1, 2019 23:02:13 GMT -5
I don't think one underperforming era can ruin a legacy. Unless that era was also particularly bad or was, for some reason, a high profile flop. Katy could very well come back from that with no harm done. Or she might not and people would still remember her for her hits and nothing else. When we think about Paula Abdul, do we also think about her underperforming 1995 era Head Over Heels? I never hear about that. My purpose for starting this thread was to think of situations and examples where an artist somehow sabotaged their legacy (or potential legacy) in some way and an underperforming album typically isn't going to do that. I meant to add another example to my initial post and that was with U2. I feel like by the late 90s and into the 2000s, they were hailed as one of the biggest longterm rock bands of the time, but as they continued to release albums and remain visible (mainly through Bono's humanitarian efforts as well), not to mention the free iTunes album fiasco, they seemed to have fallen pretty far from where it looked like they were headed. U2 were already headed in that direction after releasing Pop in the late 90s. The only difference is they released two successful rock βcomebackβ albums with a string a singles afterwards, but by that point they were already treading old ground. I donβt think their legacy was going to be more than what it currently is. Yeah, possibly. It's interesting to think that sometimes an artist about to enter "legacy act status" is almost better off not releasing new music in an effort to secure that status. Like Fleetwood Mac, for example. They've got a pretty strong legacy and have only released 3 albums since the start of the 90s - the most recent was in 2003. It's like once fans stop checking for new music, the release of anything new after that point waters down the old stuff. Which I guess begs the question: as fans of artists with lengthy careers, is there a point where you think you'd be okay if the artist stopped putting out new music. I can admit that some of my favourites who I've been fans of for at least 2 decades, I almost always go back to their earlier stuff and rarely revisit the newer releases. Alanis Morissette, Chantal Kreviazuk, Jewel to name a few from the 90s who have put out albums into the 2010s.
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wjr15
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Post by wjr15 on Apr 1, 2019 23:13:45 GMT -5
U2 were already headed in that direction after releasing Pop in the late 90s. The only difference is they released two successful rock βcomebackβ albums with a string a singles afterwards, but by that point they were already treading old ground. I donβt think their legacy was going to be more than what it currently is. Which I guess begs the question: as fans of artists with lengthy careers, is there a point where you think you'd be okay if the artist stopped putting out new music. I can admit that some of my favourites who I've been fans of for at least 2 decades, I almost always go back to their earlier stuff and rarely revisit the newer releases. Alanis Morissette, Chantal Kreviazuk, Jewel to name a few from the 90s who have put out albums into the 2010s. I don't think continued musical output damages a legacy if it's already built in the past. While an artist might be releasing music that no longer charts, that usually means the general public doesn't know it's being released. And an out of sight, out of mind mindset would mean it doesn't really affect their past output and accomplishments that they are best known for. For example, I don't think the music released this decade by Madonna, Mariah, or Janet hurt their legacies, even though it is inferior to their stuff in past decades. When I think of these artists I think of things like: Madonna - 3 decades of hits, Like A Prayer, Vogue, trend setting music videos Mariah - Always Be My Baby, Emancipation of Mimi, most #1 singles, those high notes she can reach Janet - Rhythm Nation, What Have You Done For Me Lately, her amazing performances Unless one of those artists says or does something extremely bad or controversial, their current output doesn't affect how I view their legacy.
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Post by leonagwen on Apr 3, 2019 6:17:21 GMT -5
You can arguably say that drugs hurt Whitney Houston's legacy somewhat. The same with Elvis Presley. Whitney was more Cocaine while Elvis was more prescription drugs and alcohol.
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Post by willapted33 on Apr 3, 2019 7:04:24 GMT -5
Eminem is the really obvious one, but apart from him you've got 50 Cent, Ja Rule, Nelly and a bunch of other 2000s pop rappers. In this decade we've already had Fetty Wap, Trinidad James, Rob Stone, OT Genesis etc who all had 1-3 hits then completely dipped.
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