SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Jul 18, 2023 23:26:49 GMT -5
I can't think of another artist who's had a career peak to this level the way Taylor is right now 17 years into it. People have mentioned Madonna and Cher, both of whom had major late-career peaks, but 17 years into Madonna's career was around Ray of Light or Music, both of which were hugely successful but they weren't this level. Similarly with Cher, has she ever had an album that was considered a blockbuster? Believe was one of the biggest comebacks of all time, and introduced Cher to a successful chapter of her career that continues today, but it wasn't as widespread as what Taylor is now. All this is made even more impressive by the fact that she's already had eras as big as Red and 1989 before this, either of which would have been considered impressively respectable career peaks. But the 1-2-3 punch of her folk albums, the TV re-recordings, and now the insane popularity of her tour have made her truly next-level. It's easy to look back on past (and still-present) stars as having legacies, and that's something that remains to be seen for Taylor, but her savvy business sense, the number of hits and chart success she's had, and her songwriting are certainly more than enough to cement her status as one of the biggest artists of all time. We won't really be able to see her in that terms until the dust begins to settle and as of now, the dust has been blown up all over the place again so it'll be a while yet before she even enters the legacy phase of her career because she's done the impossible by turning her old music new again anyway. I mean...there was no internet during Ray of Light and "Believe".
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Philippe
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Post by Philippe on Jul 19, 2023 5:49:15 GMT -5
I can't think of another artist who's had a career peak to this level the way Taylor is right now 17 years into it. People have mentioned Madonna and Cher, both of whom had major late-career peaks, but 17 years into Madonna's career was around Ray of Light or Music, both of which were hugely successful but they weren't this level. Similarly with Cher, has she ever had an album that was considered a blockbuster? Believe was one of the biggest comebacks of all time, and introduced Cher to a successful chapter of her career that continues today, but it wasn't as widespread as what Taylor is now. All this is made even more impressive by the fact that she's already had eras as big as Red and 1989 before this, either of which would have been considered impressively respectable career peaks. But the 1-2-3 punch of her folk albums, the TV re-recordings, and now the insane popularity of her tour have made her truly next-level. It's easy to look back on past (and still-present) stars as having legacies, and that's something that remains to be seen for Taylor, but her savvy business sense, the number of hits and chart success she's had, and her songwriting are certainly more than enough to cement her status as one of the biggest artists of all time. We won't really be able to see her in that terms until the dust begins to settle and as of now, the dust has been blown up all over the place again so it'll be a while yet before she even enters the legacy phase of her career because she's done the impossible by turning her old music new again anyway. I mean...there was no internet during Ray of Light and "Believe". This. Not to underestimate her success (which is unbelievable) but internet, and more particularly streaming, changed the industry. Who knows what kind of numbers the 80-90’ A gamers(even before - ex. Beatles) would have pulled with streaming. It’s just hard, see impossible to compare.
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Jul 19, 2023 5:54:47 GMT -5
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HOT AC: 19 13 TAYLOR SWIFT Cruel Summer 2487 1700 787 10.463
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AC: 125 32 TAYLOR SWIFT Cruel Summer 36 2 34 0.186
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SPINS: 3267 Spins from #1, Rema/Selena (+514) 3240 Spins from #2, Karma (+554) 2733 Spins from #3, Miguel (+586) 241 Spins from #1, Morgan Wallen (+507)
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Dammn Baby
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Post by Dammn Baby on Jul 19, 2023 5:58:59 GMT -5
I can't think of another artist who's had a career peak to this level the way Taylor is right now 17 years into it. People have mentioned Madonna and Cher, both of whom had major late-career peaks, but 17 years into Madonna's career was around Ray of Light or Music, both of which were hugely successful but they weren't this level. Similarly with Cher, has she ever had an album that was considered a blockbuster? Believe was one of the biggest comebacks of all time, and introduced Cher to a successful chapter of her career that continues today, but it wasn't as widespread as what Taylor is now. All this is made even more impressive by the fact that she's already had eras as big as Red and 1989 before this, either of which would have been considered impressively respectable career peaks. But the 1-2-3 punch of her folk albums, the TV re-recordings, and now the insane popularity of her tour have made her truly next-level. It's easy to look back on past (and still-present) stars as having legacies, and that's something that remains to be seen for Taylor, but her savvy business sense, the number of hits and chart success she's had, and her songwriting are certainly more than enough to cement her status as one of the biggest artists of all time. We won't really be able to see her in that terms until the dust begins to settle and as of now, the dust has been blown up all over the place again so it'll be a while yet before she even enters the legacy phase of her career because she's done the impossible by turning her old music new again anyway. Not really possible for an apples-to-apples comparison since Billboard charts converted to measuring consumption instead of pure sales in response to a changing industry. This enables much greater chart longeivity.
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Dylan :)
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Post by Dylan :) on Jul 19, 2023 6:44:04 GMT -5
#6 (-1) on US Spotify, pushed down by a debut
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wjr15
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Post by wjr15 on Jul 19, 2023 7:17:07 GMT -5
Honestly, I feel like the re-recordings and her Eras Tour which highlights her entire discography is what really elevated her to this level. These two things are re-introducing a whole new generation to her discography. There were so many teens and kids at her show who were either toddlers or not even born yet when she started her career. Re-releasing her first 6 albums has brought incredible interest to her already popular discography.
Plus, we’re in a time where an artist’s back catalog is more valuable now than ever before. There are many instances where an artist’s older songs are streaming better and have more interest than their newer music. And with streaming and TikTok, any older song can become a big hit these days. Honestly, the timing couldn’t be better for Taylor to re-visit her older discography and she’s reaping the rewards of it.
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skizzo
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Post by skizzo on Jul 19, 2023 8:05:46 GMT -5
I can't think of another artist who's had a career peak to this level the way Taylor is right now 17 years into it. People have mentioned Madonna and Cher, both of whom had major late-career peaks, but 17 years into Madonna's career was around Ray of Light or Music, both of which were hugely successful but they weren't this level. Similarly with Cher, has she ever had an album that was considered a blockbuster? Believe was one of the biggest comebacks of all time, and introduced Cher to a successful chapter of her career that continues today, but it wasn't as widespread as what Taylor is now. All this is made even more impressive by the fact that she's already had eras as big as Red and 1989 before this, either of which would have been considered impressively respectable career peaks. But the 1-2-3 punch of her folk albums, the TV re-recordings, and now the insane popularity of her tour have made her truly next-level. It's easy to look back on past (and still-present) stars as having legacies, and that's something that remains to be seen for Taylor, but her savvy business sense, the number of hits and chart success she's had, and her songwriting are certainly more than enough to cement her status as one of the biggest artists of all time. We won't really be able to see her in that terms until the dust begins to settle and as of now, the dust has been blown up all over the place again so it'll be a while yet before she even enters the legacy phase of her career because she's done the impossible by turning her old music new again anyway. I mean...there was no internet during Ray of Light and "Believe". Not to mention "Believe" was over 30 years into her career
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2023 8:07:30 GMT -5
It feels ridiculous to say, but the stats don't lie. Taylor is in the process of creating a legacy that will absolutely put her in the same conversations as The Beatles, Michael Jackson, Elvis, Madonna, Whitney Houston, etc. Like, at this point, it's no longer modern icon level like Beyoncé or Britney Spears, this is something else. Something I don't think we've seen this millennium. Even Adele, Justin Bieber, Ed Sheeran, and Drake can't compete despite their enormous peaks in the last ~decade as well. We're witnessing an all-time legendary musician create that mark in real time. It's exciting! Even when Midnights dropped and Anti-Hero smashed, this didn't seem to be the case. It really feels like, surprisingly, the tour is what got us here. Obviously, yes, the tour is responsible for this particular song smashing, but the good grace, inescapable public identity, and massive gains of the back catalog really didn't hit full force until the tour. Kind of wild to think about. Of course, it should be noted it's not that the tour is solely responsible, it's what has occured over the last 4 years coming to a head and being completely encapsulated in the tour: the re-recordings, the COVID inspired albums, the new smash pop album, it all slowly built something that is truly remarkable. Imagine going back to 2006 and telling someone hearing "Tim McGraw" for the first time what was going to happen. Hell, even going back to the 1989 days, this still would sound absurd. I agree with most of this, except the only thing missing (that might keep her out of the highest tier of legends) is breaking boundaries and pioneering with her music. Her legacy (as of now) will mainly be her historic commercial dominance. Even if that was true (which it isn't), that's literally and I know this pains a lot of people online what matters in the real world. Nobody from the GP cares whether or not the musicians they listen to broke boundaries. People just listen to music they like and enjoy. It's not as deep as some stans make it out to be.
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aldo01
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Post by aldo01 on Jul 19, 2023 8:35:12 GMT -5
On a side note, I wish she already had a music video out for this. If she had, it would already be well over 150M views and projected to become one of her most succesful music videos. All her most viewed music videos are on Big Machine, so they should not waste any precious time and film it/put it out soon as possible.
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Maximillian
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Post by Maximillian on Jul 19, 2023 8:48:02 GMT -5
On a side note, I wish she already had a music video out for this. If she had, it would already be well over 150M views and projected to become one of her most succesful music videos. All her most viewed music videos are on Big Machine, so they should not waste any precious time and film it/put it out soon as possible. I get it, but people act like she has all this extra time to go film new videos and record new albums while on tour. I hope we get a video but I think this is doing about as incredible as one can expect, given the circumstances.
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aldo01
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Post by aldo01 on Jul 19, 2023 9:02:07 GMT -5
On a side note, I wish she already had a music video out for this. If she had, it would already be well over 150M views and projected to become one of her most succesful music videos. All her most viewed music videos are on Big Machine, so they should not waste any precious time and film it/put it out soon as possible. I get it, but people act like she has all this extra time to go film new videos and record new albums while on tour. I hope we get a video but I think this is doing about as incredible as one can expect, given the circumstances. I agree, but my suspicion is that they might already have something filmed and that they might be holding it so that they don't turn any attention off of SNTV.
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Marooned@Midnight
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Post by Marooned@Midnight on Jul 19, 2023 9:05:02 GMT -5
On a side note, I wish she already had a music video out for this. If she had, it would already be well over 150M views and projected to become one of her most succesful music videos. All her most viewed music videos are on Big Machine, so they should not waste any precious time and film it/put it out soon as possible. I get it, but people act like she has all this extra time to go film new videos and record new albums while on tour. I hope we get a video but I think this is doing about as incredible as one can expect, given the circumstances. Also, she’s literally recording a new album while on tour. She’s been photographed multiple times at a recording studio in between stops. The devil works hard but TS works harder.
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Marooned@Midnight
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Post by Marooned@Midnight on Jul 19, 2023 9:06:04 GMT -5
On a side note, I wish she already had a music video out for this. If she had, it would already be well over 150M views and projected to become one of her most succesful music videos. All her most viewed music videos are on Big Machine, so they should not waste any precious time and film it/put it out soon as possible. I get it, but people act like she has all this extra time to go film new videos and record new albums while on tour. I hope we get a video but I think this is doing about as incredible as one can expect, given the circumstances. Also, she’s literally recording a new album while on tour. She’s been photographed multiple times at a recording studio in between stops. Wasn’t the ICSY video recorded during the tour as well?? The devil works hard but TS works harder.
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Jul 19, 2023 9:44:48 GMT -5
Also let's not act like Youtube is suddenly gonna give this 150M views. Anti Hero is at 148m after 8 months lol. It's a declining platform for music, people have moved on to Spotify and Apple.
I'd love a video but unless it ignites social media, like, say LWYMMD did, it won't help that much aside from a one week boost (and youtube plays help way less than paid streams)
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Post by Mayman on Jul 19, 2023 10:00:52 GMT -5
she is already bigger than Madonna imo because of the massive accessibility of stan culture, and I wont deny it, but did i read something about her "fashion era" making an impact? lol That's not what I said at all but read what you want to read.
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Philippe
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Post by Philippe on Jul 19, 2023 11:10:38 GMT -5
I get it, but people act like she has all this extra time to go film new videos and record new albums while on tour. I hope we get a video but I think this is doing about as incredible as one can expect, given the circumstances. Also, she’s literally recording a new album while on tour. She’s been photographed multiple times at a recording studio in between stops. The devil works hard but TS works harder. I read that (aka she’s recording a new album) a couple times. How do we know it’s a new album? She has 3 other re-recordings to do. How do we know she’s not working on those instead?
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aldo01
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Post by aldo01 on Jul 19, 2023 12:22:43 GMT -5
Also let's not act like Youtube is suddenly gonna give this 150M views. Anti Hero is at 148m after 8 months lol. It's a declining platform for music, people have moved on to Spotify and Apple. I'd love a video but unless it ignites social media, like, say LWYMMD did, it won't help that much aside from a one week boost (and youtube plays help way less than paid streams) Not saying it would have done 150M in a week obviously, but had it been released when the song was announced as a single, it could have done some damage. Do you know how many views the official audio for the song gets any day? How many user-made lyric videos get uploaded any day on YouTube and get significant numbers of views? You can find user-made videos uploaded yesterday that already have more than 100k views each. And I am not even counting the missed playlist placement opportunities on YouTube for not having a music video. Also, in many cases views depend on the quality of the music video, and the response it gets from viewers. Does Anti-Hero have a great music video? Sure, but it's probably not something that has Blank Space replay value. Is YouTube declining? Sure. But as long as we have acts who can get +500M views on their music videos, I am sure that Taylor can do it too.
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Dylan :)
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Post by Dylan :) on Jul 19, 2023 12:56:31 GMT -5
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velaxti
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Post by velaxti on Jul 19, 2023 14:49:20 GMT -5
I can't think of another artist who's had a career peak to this level the way Taylor is right now 17 years into it. People have mentioned Madonna and Cher, both of whom had major late-career peaks, but 17 years into Madonna's career was around Ray of Light or Music, both of which were hugely successful but they weren't this level. Similarly with Cher, has she ever had an album that was considered a blockbuster? Believe was one of the biggest comebacks of all time, and introduced Cher to a successful chapter of her career that continues today, but it wasn't as widespread as what Taylor is now. All this is made even more impressive by the fact that she's already had eras as big as Red and 1989 before this, either of which would have been considered impressively respectable career peaks. But the 1-2-3 punch of her folk albums, the TV re-recordings, and now the insane popularity of her tour have made her truly next-level. It's easy to look back on past (and still-present) stars as having legacies, and that's something that remains to be seen for Taylor, but her savvy business sense, the number of hits and chart success she's had, and her songwriting are certainly more than enough to cement her status as one of the biggest artists of all time. We won't really be able to see her in that terms until the dust begins to settle and as of now, the dust has been blown up all over the place again so it'll be a while yet before she even enters the legacy phase of her career because she's done the impossible by turning her old music new again anyway. This is a good question, and I don't know the answer. Although I do think Believe (which I remember when it came out) was a bigger hit than anything Taylor has ever released. But as for Cher as an artist, or her album at the time, I don't know if those surpass Taylor at the moment, maybe not. But I don't think it's even fair to compare. Today people can choose to listen to whatever they want, whenever they want. Back then there wasn't quite the same liberty, so songs could be "forced" on the public easier. Probably today there are a fair few people who've been avoiding Taylor relatively well the past few years, I don't think we get truly unavoidable songs anymore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2023 14:58:01 GMT -5
I can't think of another artist who's had a career peak to this level the way Taylor is right now 17 years into it. People have mentioned Madonna and Cher, both of whom had major late-career peaks, but 17 years into Madonna's career was around Ray of Light or Music, both of which were hugely successful but they weren't this level. Similarly with Cher, has she ever had an album that was considered a blockbuster? Believe was one of the biggest comebacks of all time, and introduced Cher to a successful chapter of her career that continues today, but it wasn't as widespread as what Taylor is now. All this is made even more impressive by the fact that she's already had eras as big as Red and 1989 before this, either of which would have been considered impressively respectable career peaks. But the 1-2-3 punch of her folk albums, the TV re-recordings, and now the insane popularity of her tour have made her truly next-level. It's easy to look back on past (and still-present) stars as having legacies, and that's something that remains to be seen for Taylor, but her savvy business sense, the number of hits and chart success she's had, and her songwriting are certainly more than enough to cement her status as one of the biggest artists of all time. We won't really be able to see her in that terms until the dust begins to settle and as of now, the dust has been blown up all over the place again so it'll be a while yet before she even enters the legacy phase of her career because she's done the impossible by turning her old music new again anyway. This is a good question, and I don't know the answer. Although I do think Believe (which I remember when it came out) was a bigger hit than anything Taylor has ever released. But as for Cher as an artist, or her album at the time, I don't know if those surpass Taylor at the moment, maybe not. But I don't think it's even fair to compare. Today people can choose to listen to whatever they want, whenever they want. Back then there wasn't quite the same liberty, so songs could be "forced" on the public easier. Probably today there are a fair few people who've been avoiding Taylor relatively well the past few years, I don't think we get truly unavoidable songs anymore. Believe is a club staple tho. I think it's unfair to compare that to Taylor's everyday music.
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Marooned@Midnight
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Post by Marooned@Midnight on Jul 19, 2023 15:52:04 GMT -5
Also, she’s literally recording a new album while on tour. She’s been photographed multiple times at a recording studio in between stops. The devil works hard but TS works harder. I read that (aka she’s recording a new album) a couple times. How do we know it’s a new album? She has 3 other re-recordings to do. How do we know she’s not working on those instead? I thought it had been strongly hinted that she had finished the re-recordings. I could be wrong about that, but either way, if it’s that or a new album, she’s still clocking studio time in between tour stops.
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avamaxstan
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Post by avamaxstan on Jul 19, 2023 18:38:17 GMT -5
One-off comeback songs/eras don’t compare in any way to Taylor utterly dominating the music industry for 15 years and then ascending *higher* to levels truly unseen.
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Post by ificanthaveyou on Jul 19, 2023 19:13:25 GMT -5
I truly believe Taylor still has her “biggest Hot 100” single in store for us. While I think Blank Space/Anti-Hero were massive, I think she has one more in her that will reach crazy new heights and at least 10 weeks at #1
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jul 19, 2023 19:26:55 GMT -5
I didn't mean to ruffle so many feathers with my post yesterday. What I meant was that Taylor seems to actually be at a career peak now in her 17th year, not so much with her singles, which on paper, aren't performing any better than her 1989 era (unless "Cruel Summer" somehow becomes her overall biggest hit). I was mostly referring to her as a star. Her albums are dominating, and yes, streaming and availability definitely plays a huge part into that, but her tour is also dominating. Not just selling out, but dominating headlines far beyond the entertainment section. Even comparing her right now to the heights of recent pop stars like Adele, Gaga and Katy Perry, I genuinely feel that Taylor, in this precise moment, in an overall sense, has surpassed them as far as career peaks are concerned. And at their peaks, they were all huge and untouchable and everything they did was golden. This is Taylor's imperial era.
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ampersand
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Post by ampersand on Jul 19, 2023 23:58:23 GMT -5
During the Fearless era (when I was not quite a fan yet), I thought she could never get any bigger than she was then. But then 1989 happened (by that point I was a fan), and I again thought she could never get any bigger. And now here we are, almost a decade since what we thought was her most successful album, and she is somehow even bigger than she ever has been. Who knows where she'll be in another ten years?
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avamaxstan
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Post by avamaxstan on Jul 20, 2023 1:46:07 GMT -5
Even comparing her right now to the heights of recent pop stars like Adele, Gaga and Katy Perry, I genuinely feel that Taylor, in this precise moment, in an overall sense, has surpassed them as far as career peaks are concerned. Taylor outpeaked all three of them long long long ago. The only time Gaga was bigger than Taylor was for a few months in 2009. Adele was never a superstar public figure, her main notoriety was selling a gazillion albums. Katy was a big star and her Teenage Dream peak was major, but in the end she was a radio hit girl and the public dropped like a hot potato as soon as the hits stopped coming. She never commanded an ounce of Taylor’s impact or power.
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Dylan :)
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Post by Dylan :) on Jul 20, 2023 4:49:12 GMT -5
#5 (+1) on US Spotify
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jdanton2
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Post by jdanton2 on Jul 20, 2023 4:55:44 GMT -5
the 3735 weekly gain today must be among the biggest this high up on the charts.
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fearlessarrow
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Post by fearlessarrow on Jul 20, 2023 5:07:30 GMT -5
POP: 10 4 TAYLOR SWIFT Cruel Summer 12771 9036 3735 41.655
+486 Spins +45 Bullet +1.486 Audience
HOT AC: 18 11 TAYLOR SWIFT Cruel Summer 2582 1800 782 10.736
+95 Spins -5 Bullet +0.273 Audience
AC: 125 31 TAYLOR SWIFT Cruel Summer 46 2 44 0.255
+10 Spins +10 Bullet +0.069 Audience
Spins Watch: 2189 spins from #3, "Sure Thing" (+544) 2639 spins from #2, "Karma"(+601) 2791 spins from #1, "Calm Down" (+476)
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jul 20, 2023 6:01:27 GMT -5
Even comparing her right now to the heights of recent pop stars like Adele, Gaga and Katy Perry, I genuinely feel that Taylor, in this precise moment, in an overall sense, has surpassed them as far as career peaks are concerned. Taylor outpeaked all three of them long long long ago. The only time Gaga was bigger than Taylor was for a few months in 2009. Adele was never a superstar public figure, her main notoriety was selling a gazillion albums. Katy was a big star and her Teenage Dream peak was major, but in the end she was a radio hit girl and the public dropped like a hot potato as soon as the hits stopped coming. She never commanded an ounce of Taylor’s impact or power. I’m fine to agree to disagree. Gaga and Adele definitely had moments in their careers where they were seemingly unstoppable, particularly leading up to Born This Way and Hello respectively. Points where all eyes were on them and the hype was through the roof. Of course it’s all perceptive. To me, nobody had surpassed both points in time as far as sheer hype and domination of pop culture.
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