kierz7
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Post by kierz7 on Jun 16, 2020 17:49:55 GMT -5
The discussion was about songs that get insane push first week just to snatch #1 an then free fall.As an album 'Scorpion' doesn't belong in this category. Because it had great longevity. It sold 1,249,000 in 2019(second year). It is the best selling album in the last 4 years in total activity (2017-2020). Albums that belong here are gimmicky #1s like SuperM for example. I still can’t believe ‘SuperM’ blocked ‘Summer Walker’. That became such a depressing week considering she was the front-runner for most of it. Thankfully she’s still charting (with a Classic R&B album) and they’re, well... not. |
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arg991
Charting
Joined: June 2018
Posts: 74 
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Post by arg991 on Jun 16, 2020 17:50:25 GMT -5
Or maybe she’s gaming the system like everyone else. The fact that people are screaming hypocrisy when everyone is doing and she called them out for actually selling more is just people being haters. I'm not even being a hater like good for her if she manages to pull out a second #1 but it does give me the side-eye w/ her past statements prior to getting her #1. I didn’t say you were being a hater just the people who are bashing her for employing the same tactics plenty of artists have been using for the last year or two. I just think it’s weird for people to call it hypocrisy instead of adaptation to the environment. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Jun 16, 2020 17:50:37 GMT -5
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m450n
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Post by m450n on Jun 16, 2020 17:51:38 GMT -5
OK if you say so. Then it is a fact.
Apple Music is just as bad if not worse!
YouTube streams are no longer given as much weight in Billboard’s calculations, not since it was discovered artists were using truncated songs to accumulate streams, which in turn translated to higher chart placement. (Also, if I’m not mistaken, some of Trollz early streams have already been discounted.) This is why nobody is bringing up the YT views. They aren’t given nearly as much weight as other factors considered in Billboard’s chart algorithm. And thats fine to think that, but if GOOBA got over 50 million streams according to Billboard with a majority of that being from Youtube and still hit #3 in a close race with another song using heavy bundles then I see no reason to believe that a song that's doing not significantly worse on streaming but SIGNIFICANTLY better on pure sales won't hit #1 (this is assuming that the Barbz keep the momentum throughout the week) |
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thelegends
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Post by thelegends on Jun 16, 2020 17:52:18 GMT -5
Ah yes, it feels like Marvin’s Room by Drake ... I'm not hearing the similarities. Maybe it’s just me, but I feel that both are downtempo pop. Marvin’s Room is good. |
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annoymous1
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Post by annoymous1 on Jun 16, 2020 17:53:20 GMT -5
I'm not even being a hater like good for her if she manages to pull out a second #1 but it does give me the side-eye w/ her past statements prior to getting her #1. I didn’t say you were being a hater just the people who are bashing her for employing the same tactics plenty of artists have been using for the last year or two. I just think it’s weird for people to call it hypocrisy instead of adaptation to the environment. Okay now that makes sense the last part of your sentence.sorry for misunderstanding your point. |
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Jun 16, 2020 17:53:34 GMT -5
Lmao, this is a prime example of choosing what you want to see. Yes, releasing a bunch of different versions and asking fans to buy them has been done before. Heartless had like 50 versions, Travis Scott's recent #1's had like 20 versions each, Taylor had the audacity to release rehearsal audio for sale, Yummy also had like 10 versions and he begged his fans to stream/buy, Stuck With U also had like 20 versions and all were discounted. For you to sit here and choose which instances are desperate and which aren't at this point is silly. You're just being very selective with what you want to see as desperate. "Well they only released 20 versions, not 25 versions like Trollz so they're not as desperate" umm ok. It's all the same thing at this point. The artist has to come on Twitter and directly ask fans to buy it for you to finally see it as desperate? You couldn't see the desperation when they threw together 50 different versions of 1 song for sale, that don't ship for 5 months after? Girl shut up. “You’re just being very selective” looking a**. I’m calling out two artists that have literally done nothing but complain about the powers at be doing everything possible to seek recognition from the very institutions they heavily criticize, using the same tactics they demonized other artists for employing. It goes beyond desperation...I feel like there’s an actual name for this. Nicki Minaj, who is 40 with a husband and has been in this game for over a decade with an established career and legacy, is so desperate to get a hit that she’s willing to violate her own moral code by collaborating with a known informant, all to obtain an accolade from an institution that she shitted on for hours on her radio show. The same with 6ix9ine...Why are you so desperate to be crowned by an institution you claim is blackballing you? I don’t like the message or the look...and for the record, I could give two shits about what happens in the pop world. I’m not a Taylor fan or an Ariana fan. I’m commenting on this situation because it impacts my culture, my community. Just like I criticized Doja Cat for her anti-black sentiments despite being considered a “colored” woman herself. (However, to me, the tactics her team used to get Say So to go number 1 in no way stacks up to the machinations of 6ix9ine and Nicki Minaj. Say So was already top 5 before the remix and ultimately moved to the top of the charts because of airplay, regardless of how many version of the song they released. Their airplay streams for that week blew everyone else’s out of the water.) I don’t like Doja, at all, but, I’m also not going to draw a false equivalency out of a DESPERATE need to validate the antics of a woman who is almost 15 years older than she is.. I take issue also with a so-called pro-black artist, who lamented for hours about vultures infiltrating the culture, placing a higher value on riding waves by collaborating with someone who has consistently exploited the black community for financial gain than protecting the integrity of the art and culture she claims to love. It’s a nasty showing. Okay... so you don’t like what Nicki Minaj & 6IX9INE represent personally and you have an issue with them on a personal level. That has nothing to do with the chart discussion of Trollz on Hot 100. I don’t know why many of you feel the need to bring up your personal feelings of an artist as if that’s relevant. That’s been going on way too long and the mods need to start shutting that down. How you feel about Nicki being desperate for validation at 40 and disrespecting the culture she is apart of doesn’t merit any discussion in a conversation of charts, it’d make more sense in a general discussion thread of that artist My points were made in reference of the charts. Them being desperate by having fans buy countless versions is something that has unfortunately been building in the industry in general with these new singles. Some instances may have not had the artists be as transparent, but it’s clear they’re all gaming the charts for #1 with mass fan purchasing. |
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strongerq
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Posts: 1,508
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Post by strongerq on Jun 16, 2020 17:54:18 GMT -5
OK if you say so. Then it is a fact. Apple Music is just as bad if not worse!
I like how you left out my entire first part of my argument that it already has 100 million views on Youtube. My main point was that GOOBA's primary streaming service was YouTube just like TROLLZ... I just replied because the second part is incorrect. You claimed that both parts were correct. A and B are both correct. so here is some math. A=1 What you said is true B=0 What you said is false So what you said as a whole is false.
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kierz7
2x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2018
Posts: 2,642
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Post by kierz7 on Jun 16, 2020 17:54:39 GMT -5
Well she saw how they were when her album dropped and the bundles weren't counted or so. So now that she has the same mgmt as Travis Scott,(I'm sure 69's mgmt has a hand in this as well), why not go for the gusto then. Tekashi seems to be the one more active about hitting number one ever since he flipped about "GOOBA" being close to debuting at #1. Lol at her being "desperate". That just needs to stop. But think what you want😉 The moment when she said that she'll open a OnlyFans account if the song goes #1 that theory got thrown at the window. She is just as involved. EYE- Who, in their right mind, actually believed that? Those pour souls who presumed that’d become a reality... ☠️ |
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chebad
Charting
Joined: July 2018
Posts: 82
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Post by chebad on Jun 16, 2020 17:54:59 GMT -5
YouTube streams are no longer given as much weight in Billboard’s calculations, not since it was discovered artists were using truncated songs to accumulate streams, which in turn translated to higher chart placement. (Also, if I’m not mistaken, some of Trollz early streams have already been discounted.) This is why nobody is bringing up the YT views. They aren’t given nearly as much weight as other factors considered in Billboard’s chart algorithm. And thats fine to think that, but if GOOBA got over 50 million streams according to Billboard with a majority of that being from Youtube and still hit #3 in a close race with another song using heavy bundles then I see no reason to believe that a song that's doing not significantly worse on streaming but SIGNIFICANTLY better on pure sales won't hit #1 (this is assuming that the Barbz keep the momentum throughout the week) Gooba had higher streams on Apple and Spotify. Trollz hasn’t even cracked top 10 on Spotify. It hit 15 and has trended down ever since. |
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m450n
Gold Member
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Posts: 878
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Post by m450n on Jun 16, 2020 17:57:40 GMT -5
I like how you left out my entire first part of my argument that it already has 100 million views on Youtube. My main point was that GOOBA's primary streaming service was YouTube just like TROLLZ... I just replied because the second part is incorrect. You claimed that both parts were correct. A and B are both correct. so here is some math. A=1 What you said is true B=0 What you said is false So what you said as a whole is false.
The thing is I don't know what you're saying??? And also why are you trying to fight me? All I was trying to do by post that was bring a valid argument to why TROLLZ could go #1. A lot of people on this discussion have negated TROLLZ streams as a whole. By fighting (or mansplaining) me, you're just adding to the fire. The fire being that in no way, shape, or form TROLLZ could ever hit #1 because of some random reason. |
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annoymous1
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Post by annoymous1 on Jun 16, 2020 17:57:55 GMT -5
Dang if 6ix9ine gets us all riled up.Imagine when another hip hop artist finally drops his album.
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m450n
Gold Member
Joined: November 2019
Posts: 878
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Post by m450n on Jun 16, 2020 18:02:38 GMT -5
And thats fine to think that, but if GOOBA got over 50 million streams according to Billboard with a majority of that being from Youtube and still hit #3 in a close race with another song using heavy bundles then I see no reason to believe that a song that's doing not significantly worse on streaming but SIGNIFICANTLY better on pure sales won't hit #1 (this is assuming that the Barbz keep the momentum throughout the week) Gooba had higher streams on Apple and Spotify. Trollz hasn’t even cracked top 10 on Spotify. It hit 15 and has trended down ever since. GOOBA had 55.3 million U.S. streams that counted for Billboard. 9.5 million of those came from Spotify. Let's say TROLLZ gets about 3.5-4 million from Spotify, and does a little less than what it did on Apple Music (it has stayed stable in the top 5 the entire week so far). As long as TROLLZ keeps momentum in both Youtube and Apple Music without crashing randomly, there is a possibility that TROLLZ could get around 35-40 million U.s. streams. Again... just trying to provide a valid argument. |
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strongerq
Platinum Member
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Post by strongerq on Jun 16, 2020 18:03:19 GMT -5
Dang if 6ix9ine gets us all riled up.imagine when another hip hop artist finally drops his album. |
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chebad
Charting
Joined: July 2018
Posts: 82
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Post by chebad on Jun 16, 2020 18:30:13 GMT -5
Girl shut up. “You’re just being very selective” looking a**. I’m calling out two artists that have literally done nothing but complain about the powers at be doing everything possible to seek recognition from the very institutions they heavily criticize, using the same tactics they demonized other artists for employing. It goes beyond desperation...I feel like there’s an actual name for this. Nicki Minaj, who is 40 with a husband and has been in this game for over a decade with an established career and legacy, is so desperate to get a hit that she’s willing to violate her own moral code by collaborating with a known informant, all to obtain an accolade from an institution that she shitted on for hours on her radio show. The same with 6ix9ine...Why are you so desperate to be crowned by an institution you claim is blackballing you? I don’t like the message or the look...and for the record, I could give two shits about what happens in the pop world. I’m not a Taylor fan or an Ariana fan. I’m commenting on this situation because it impacts my culture, my community. Just like I criticized Doja Cat for her anti-black sentiments despite being considered a “colored” woman herself. (However, to me, the tactics her team used to get Say So to go number 1 in no way stacks up to the machinations of 6ix9ine and Nicki Minaj. Say So was already top 5 before the remix and ultimately moved to the top of the charts because of airplay, regardless of how many version of the song they released. Their airplay streams for that week blew everyone else’s out of the water.) I don’t like Doja, at all, but, I’m also not going to draw a false equivalency out of a DESPERATE need to validate the antics of a woman who is almost 15 years older than she is.. I take issue also with a so-called pro-black artist, who lamented for hours about vultures infiltrating the culture, placing a higher value on riding waves by collaborating with someone who has consistently exploited the black community for financial gain than protecting the integrity of the art and culture she claims to love. It’s a nasty showing. Okay... so you don’t like what Nicki Minaj & 6IX9INE represent personally and you have an issue with them on a personal level. That has nothing to do with the chart discussion of Trollz on Hot 100. I don’t know why many of you feel the need to bring up your personal feelings of an artist as if that’s relevant. That’s been going on way too long and the mods need to start shutting that down. How you feel about Nicki being desperate for validation at 40 and disrespecting the culture she is apart of doesn’t merit any discussion in a conversation of charts, it’d make more sense in a general discussion thread of that artist My points were made in reference of the charts. Them being desperate by having fans buy countless versions is something that has unfortunately been building in the industry in general with these new singles. Some instances may have not had the artists be as transparent, but it’s clear they’re all gaming the charts for #1 with mass fan purchasing. My comments pertain to their antics as it relates to a chart they previously dismissed and how it also connects to Hip Hop and the black community overall. All of which is connected to one another. Right...to truly evaluate whether or not Nicki and 6ix9ine are desperate in seeking a number one in this manner, you don’t only compare them to others who may or may not have used similar tactics; you can also measure it against their previous remarks and sentiments on the subject. Only stacking them against previous talent, without taking into consideration other notable factors, is actually a fallacy. In this case, I’m considering the fact that both Nicki and 6ix9ine are seeking recognition from an institution they’ve both lamented about for hours; the legacy of the two artists (whether they’re established in their respective fields); the types of machinations employed (Onlyfans, offering content creators 10k, encouraging fans to use illegal tactics); and moral stance (are these artists engaging in behavior that is outside of the bounds of their previously stated moral authority. And because Hip Hop is in its own lane, I am also measuring them against other acts specifically in this genre. When I look at everything in totality, I find them both to be very desperate. 1) Both have denounced Billboard in the past 2) Both have criticized other artists for using similar tactics 3) Nicki has vehemently denounced culture vultures yet has laid down her moral compass to work with someone who represents everything she once claimed to resent...fir the sake of a number 1. 4) Nicki is an established career woman - yet her eagerness and willingness to do anything possible to secure this number 1, belies her legacy. To emphasize this, people put her in the same vein as the Jay-Zs, Lil Wayne’s, Drakes, and other Hip Hop legends like Beyoncé, who have never felt the need to demean themselves in the way Nicki has over the past week, for the sake of Billboard fame. That she’s willing to ride the coattails of someone who embodies what she claims to disdain, is indicative of someone who is desperate. 5) Doja Cat is 24 years old and is just starting out. In no way shape or form does her antics justify Nicki Minaj’s, who is near 40 and already considered a legend in her own right. (And as mentioned, airplay largely helped this song out.) Say So was already predicted to go number 1 before the remix was released. Ariana Grande, Taylor Swift, and Lady Gaga didn’t offer to set up an Onlyfans or start a last minute, $10k competition amongst Tic Toc creators to promote their records. None of these artists went online to beg their fans (2 days in a row) to purchase up to 4 copies, like 6ix9ine did. Also, how many versions of their contending songs did the other artists you mentioned release? Did they discount their songs? Was it the artists or the fans that were encouraging faulty tactics? Nicki and 6ix9ine’s behavior and how they’ve engaged with their respective fanbases around this single, has been very different from their contemporaries. All of this collectively, spells desperation. That I also worry about the long-term impact of giving a culture vulture an opportunity to once again exploit, is just the icing on top...but in no way diminishes the very real points that I brought up that speak to their desperate behavior. |
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thelegends
2x Platinum Member
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Post by thelegends on Jun 16, 2020 18:31:44 GMT -5
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wavey.
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Post by wavey. on Jun 16, 2020 18:37:57 GMT -5
Jesus. Whew. Wow.
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chebad
Charting
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Posts: 82
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Post by chebad on Jun 16, 2020 18:42:42 GMT -5
Gooba had higher streams on Apple and Spotify. Trollz hasn’t even cracked top 10 on Spotify. It hit 15 and has trended down ever since. GOOBA had 55.3 million U.S. streams that counted for Billboard. 9.5 million of those came from Spotify. Let's say TROLLZ gets about 3.5-4 million from Spotify, and does a little less than what it did on Apple Music (it has stayed stable in the top 5 the entire week so far). As long as TROLLZ keeps momentum in both Youtube and Apple Music without crashing randomly, there is a possibility that TROLLZ could get around 35-40 million U.s. streams. Again... just trying to provide a valid argument. My argument was that Trollz, considering its underperformed it’s predecessor, is unlikely to take the top position this week. Their sales would need to be astronomical to overcome the lack of radio play and low streams. |
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Post by thegreatdivine on Jun 16, 2020 18:44:45 GMT -5
This thread has really gone to sh*t.
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wavey.
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Post by wavey. on Jun 16, 2020 18:47:05 GMT -5
This thread has really gone to sh*t. Mannnnn. Unfortunately, it is chart related😥🙃. |
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kimberly
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act i RENAISSANCE
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Post by kimberly on Jun 16, 2020 18:49:16 GMT -5
this is a chart forum to discuss things like this. don't come on here if you don't want to read this. no one's forcing you to. and I do have a life, probably better than yours. Obviously you don’t if you whining like a lil bish over someone trying to get a no. 1. Imagine how pathetic YOU ARE to be putting that much energy into complaining about their tactics. I'll take this as a compliment, as I put exactly 2 minutes into writing that and moved on. I advise you do the same. Imagine the possibilities of what I could do if I actually put my energy into it! |
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thelegends
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Post by thelegends on Jun 16, 2020 18:49:35 GMT -5
GOOBA had 55.3 million U.S. streams that counted for Billboard. 9.5 million of those came from Spotify. Let's say TROLLZ gets about 3.5-4 million from Spotify, and does a little less than what it did on Apple Music (it has stayed stable in the top 5 the entire week so far). As long as TROLLZ keeps momentum in both Youtube and Apple Music without crashing randomly, there is a possibility that TROLLZ could get around 35-40 million U.s. streams. Again... just trying to provide a valid argument. My argument was that Trollz, considering its underperformed it’s predecessor, is unlikely to take the top position this week. Their sales would need to be astronomical to overcome the lack of radio play and low streams. 1 - How many points did Gooba get? 2 - How much is the difference between high sales of Trollz and high paid streams for Gooba 3 - How many points did the #2 and #1 get during Gooba week? |
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thelegends
2x Platinum Member
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Joe Biden : “You ain’t black”
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Post by thelegends on Jun 16, 2020 18:50:51 GMT -5
This thread has really gone to sh*t. Mannnnn. Unfortunately, it is chart related😥🙃. Please quarantine/lock this thread for 24 hours |
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Post by rosalina4812 on Jun 16, 2020 18:52:56 GMT -5
Little kid looks up Trolls
Misspells Trolls
Clicks on Trollz music video
Gets scarred for life
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annoymous1
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Post by annoymous1 on Jun 16, 2020 18:54:38 GMT -5
15 Pages wow..
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m450n
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Post by m450n on Jun 16, 2020 18:55:59 GMT -5
Nicki and 6ix9ine get pulse riled up. |
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wavey.
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Post by wavey. on Jun 16, 2020 18:56:06 GMT -5
Mannnnn. Unfortunately, it is chart related😥🙃. Please quarantine/lock this thread for 24 hours If it gets heated again. Right now the metric discussion is in line with the guidelines of the thread. Let try to keep it that way. Remember, we can go to the Hot 100 Chart Disscussion section if everyone wants to talk about the artists being discussed right now. |
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Jun 16, 2020 18:56:10 GMT -5
Okay... so you don’t like what Nicki Minaj & 6IX9INE represent personally and you have an issue with them on a personal level. That has nothing to do with the chart discussion of Trollz on Hot 100. I don’t know why many of you feel the need to bring up your personal feelings of an artist as if that’s relevant. That’s been going on way too long and the mods need to start shutting that down. How you feel about Nicki being desperate for validation at 40 and disrespecting the culture she is apart of doesn’t merit any discussion in a conversation of charts, it’d make more sense in a general discussion thread of that artist My points were made in reference of the charts. Them being desperate by having fans buy countless versions is something that has unfortunately been building in the industry in general with these new singles. Some instances may have not had the artists be as transparent, but it’s clear they’re all gaming the charts for #1 with mass fan purchasing. My comments pertain to their antics as it relates to a chart they previously dismissed and how it also connects to Hip Hop and the black community overall. All of which is connected to one another. Right...to truly evaluate whether or not Nicki and 6ix9ine are desperate in seeking a number one in this manner, you don’t only compare them to others who may or may not have used similar tactics; you can also measure it against their previous remarks and sentiments on the subject. Only stacking them against previous talent, without taking into consideration other notable factors, is actually a fallacy. In this case, I’m considering the fact that both Nicki and 6ix9ine are seeking recognition from an institution they’ve both lamented about for hours; the legacy of the two artists (whether they’re established in their respective fields); the types of machinations employed (Onlyfans, offering content creators 10k, encouraging fans to use illegal tactics); and moral stance (are these artists engaging in behavior that is outside of the bounds of their previously stated moral authority. And because Hip Hop is in its own lane, I am also measuring them against other acts specifically in this genre. When I look at everything in totality, I find them both to be very desperate. 1) Both have denounced Billboard in the past 2) Both have criticized other artists for using similar tactics 3) Nicki has vehemently denounced culture vultures yet has laid down her moral compass to work with someone who represents everything she once claimed to resent...fir the sake of a number 1. 4) Nicki is an established career woman - yet her eagerness and willingness to do anything possible to secure this number 1, belies her legacy. To emphasize this, people put her in the same vein as the Jay-Zs, Lil Wayne’s, Drakes, and other Hip Hop legends like Beyoncé, who have never felt the need to demean themselves in the way Nicki has over the past week, for the sake of Billboard fame. That she’s willing to ride the coattails of someone who embodies what she claims to disdain, is indicative of someone who is desperate. 5) Doja Cat is 24 years old and is just starting out. In no way shape or form does her antics justify Nicki Minaj’s, who is near 40 and already considered a legend in her own right. (And as mentioned, airplay largely helped this song out.) Say So was already predicted to go number 1 before the remix was released. Ariana Grande, Taylor Swift, and Lady Gaga didn’t offer to set up an Onlyfans or start a last minute, $10k competition amongst Tic Toc creators to promote their records. None of these artists went online to beg their fans (2 days in a row) to purchase up to 4 copies, like 6ix9ine did. Also, how many versions of their contending songs did the other artists you mentioned release? Did they discount their songs? Was it the artists or the fans that were encouraging faulty tactics? Nicki and 6ix9ine’s behavior and how they’ve engaged with their respective fanbases around this single, has been very different from their contemporaries. All of this collectively, spells desperation. That I also worry about the long-term impact of giving a culture vulture an opportunity to once again exploit, is just the icing on top...but in no way diminishes the very real points that I brought up that speak to their desperate behavior. You keep bringing up Nicki being 40 years old... literally nothing to do in relation to this chart discussion. Moral compass also has NOTHING to do with discussing Hot 100 performance and the things they are doing to boost streams/sales. I am not even a fan of Nicki & can't stand her on a personal level (+ definitely not 69) however stop trying to push your personal feelings and disses into a chart discussion and then excusing it as necessary to the discussion at that. Calling her/those two desperate in the sense of doing shameless gimmicks to go #1, yes, it's pretty obvious with the amount of effort they are exuding promotion wise. However, also trying to personally judge and nitpick how desperate their character is will just go nowhere and derails completely into something different. |
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strongerq
Platinum Member
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Post by strongerq on Jun 16, 2020 18:56:58 GMT -5
1 - How many points did Gooba get? 2 - How much is the difference between high sales of Trollz and high paid streams for Gooba 3 - How many points did the #2 and #1 get during Gooba week? About 2
Based on this they need + 11.5K sales (70K total)
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Xander
Charting
Joined: September 2018
Posts: 316
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Post by Xander on Jun 16, 2020 18:58:19 GMT -5
I think this week will be difficult to predict. Well never really find out trollz’ sales from bundling, till Monday. Unless, Billboard releases an article with an estimated number.
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