Billboard Hot 100: 06/26/2021

[Amnesiac]

Jun 13, 2021 12:36:53 GMT -5 thegreatdivine said:

I think why chartdata wouldn't get into trouble with Billboard the way TOTC did is because they post most of their Billboard stats as soon as Billboard posts them. That goes for Hot 100/Billboard 200 stats, radio stats and streaming stats. The only thing I know they post before Billboard are digital sales. The album projections they post comes from HDD and chartdata will only post about a song competing for a #1 debut when they see multiple chart prediction accounts say so or when the song's dominance is so massive that it's clear it'll be debuting at #1 so they're not posting anything on their account that isn't public information already.

TOTC did a lot more than just post weekly Hot 100 projections. They posted building Hot 100 year-end projections and their website (which I believe is the main reason Billboard has an issue with them) referenced material by Billboard that wasn't public knowledge and that Billboard would probably like to remain the sole publishers of. Stuff like the radio estimates and digital sales tracker probably didn't bother Billboard but stuff like their GOAT list, etc probably did.

I'd say Billboard should just let them be as all they do is inform everyday music fans who are curious about the inner-workings of charts but Billboard has every right to shut down anyone they feel is sharing private information that they haven't permitted them to and that's simply the truth.

I hope TOTC keeps sharing as much information as they can within the scopes of what's legal/allowed. They're definitely a valuable resource.

A little late to this discussion, but I called TOTC eventually getting a C&D from the moment they announced that site. Only question was when. It put a big spotlight on them and Billboard was going to get to them sooner or later. It's like guessing when Nintendo is going to bring the hammer down on a fan game once it gets enough media attention. It was so inevitable from the jump that all I could do was guess how long it had to live. I thought it would make it until at least July, though.

I think this post by thegreatdivine hits the nail on the head. The big difference between TOTC and places like Chartdata and aCharts is that those places wait until Billboard actually publishes that data, whereas TOTC publishes chart predictions for both year-end and weekly charts and there's the grey area with the data they're using to do those. Same difference between TOTC and Wikipedia and Joel Whitburn's Record Research, although those are very special cases (Wiki is an encyclopedia that published chart placements as a matter of fact and never allows predictions because they're unencyclopedic, while Whitburn is a long-time Billboard licensee). TOTC's criticism of Billboard and their year-end predictions that used potentially private data material methods (like Soundscan?) absolutely put a target on their back.

[meg]

BTS is releasing new single on June 9. They just announced it. Also Butter CD single.

[thabb]

Jun 13, 2021 18:21:22 GMT -5 KeepDeanWeird said:

Billboard only exists to make money, which is used partly to employee workers. Billboard is not a government agency or a not-for-profit. They have every right to protect what is legally theirs.

The H100 is interesting, but it's never been the 'definitive' source of popularity - the RSO/Casablanca scandals in the 70s, during the 80s there were GOLD genre singles 'Juicy Fruit,' 'Swingin'' that missed the Top 40, excluding airplay-only until 1998, switching from a pop radio only/all sales to an all-genre radio (with nearly no sales) until iTunes, adjusting formulas, etc.

No predictions - no worries. It'll make the actual reveals far more interesting - like the 'old' days.

I have a vague idea of what you're talking about here; I know the rumours about Baker Street, and I know Casablanca's Kiss folly in 1978 when they shipped the solo albums into platinum status with none of the albums selling well, but what else?

[Fears in the Fire]

Jun 14, 2021 1:49:37 GMT -5 oliviafan101 said:

Also another question, did the TOTC discord server get taken down or deleted?

No it’s still up

[Lost In Musical Reverie]

Jun 13, 2021 18:47:11 GMT -5 atg said:

Imagine trying to shut up a group of people who are clearly fans of your work and only predict what will happen next on your charts. Tell me why we haven’t migrated to Rolling Stone yet..

While Billboard and its current methodology are far from perfect, I'd still take them over the Rolling Stone chart, and I don't understand how some insist it should be used as a superior alternative to measuring popular music. I know radio is often out-of-touch with what's popular on streaming, but like it or not, it's still a significant metric when considering music consumption among all demographics, and it's also a measure of how much the industry is supporting certain artists and genres. For me, it seems like some chart watchers want the charts to fit their vision of what should be popular based on how they consume music.

Even disregarding how they exclude radio, YouTube apparently isn't factored in as well, which makes no sense. And I'm sorry, but it's ridiculous to have songs like "boyfriend", "Hot Girl Summer", "Baby Pluto", "Mr. Right Now", "Anyone", and "i n t e r l u d e" considered #1 hits according to their charts. These really diminish their credibility, even more so than "TROLLZ" (#3 on RS) and "Life Goes On" (#11 on RS, like HGS' #11 on the Hot 100), since at least we have the excuse of mass buying from devoted stans.

Finally, just like the equally flawed UK Charts, the lack of recurrent rules makes their Year-End charts a joke, to put it bluntly. "Wow.", "Ocean Eyes", "Beautiful Crazy", and "Tennessee Whiskey" all made the 2020 Year-End, but songs like "The Bigger Picture", "Break My Heart", and all Luke Combs' proper 2020 singles didn't.

Just some food for thought here. 

[Amnesiac]

Jun 14, 2021 10:47:10 GMT -5 Lost In Musical Reverie said:

Jun 13, 2021 18:47:11 GMT -5 atg said:

Imagine trying to shut up a group of people who are clearly fans of your work and only predict what will happen next on your charts. Tell me why we haven’t migrated to Rolling Stone yet..

While Billboard and its current methodology are far from perfect, I'd still take them over the Rolling Stone chart, and I don't understand how some insist it should be used as a superior alternative to measuring popular music. I know radio is often out-of-touch with what's popular on streaming, but like it or not, it's still a significant metric when considering music consumption among all demographics, and it's also a measure of how much the industry is supporting certain artists and genres. For me, it seems like some chart watchers want the charts to fit their vision of what should be popular based on how they consume music.

Also, just a reminder that Billboard and Rolling Stone are now owned by the same company.

Billboard is never going to drop radio from the Hot 100. It's been a core element of the Hot 100 since it started in 1958, and it's not going away the way of, say, the jukebox or the ringtone (Both of which used to have their own dedicated Billboard chart). Radio is still an important promotional tool, people still listen to it, and getting your song on the radio still means a lot to artists, even though a lot of stations are owned by two or three companies. Radio still tells you a lot about what is and isn't popular.

[dremolus - solarpunk]

US Spotify - 06/13/21

1(=) Olivia Rodrigo - good 4 u 2,274,045 (-302,025)
2(=) Doja Cat - Kiss Me More 1,254,700 (-167,331)
3(+1) Olivia Rodrigo - deja vu 1,171,913 (-141,676)
4(-1) Polo G - RAPSTAR 1,170,917 (-204,427)
5(=) Olivia Rodrigo - traitor 1,101,005 (-113,745)
6(=) Dua Lipa - Levitating 1,003,079 (-129,140)
7(+1) Lil Nas X - MONTERO (Call Me By Your Name) 922,371 (-96,106)
8(-1) Bad Bunny - Yonaguni 885,250 (-152,757)
9(+1) Olivia Rodrigo - favorite crime 847,960 (-80,949)
10(+2) happier 821,285 (-79,743)

Polo G - Hall of Fame
26(-6) Black Hearted 567,293 (-183,367)
28(-3) GANG GANG 557,420 (-142,146)
32(-9) No Return 518,328 (-203,060)
61(-16) Toxic 344,894 (-152,149)
68(-15) Clueless 323,229 (-138,080)
86(-15) Party Lyfe 299,403 (-124,826)
87(-33) Painting Pictures 298,457 (-157,495)
89(-30) Boom 293,262 (-134,649)
92(-29) Epidemic 285,325 (-119,649)

Migos - Culture III
17(-8) Having Our Way 688,879 (-278,090)
34(-6) Straightenin 495,272 (-157,778)
48(-16) Avalanche 421,463 (-185,871)
54(-16) Malibu 366,889 (-164,472)
69(-17) Modern Day 323,229 (-143,677)
73(-16) Jane 315,324 (-119,213)

Olivia Rodrigo - SOUR
11(=) brutal 811,338 (-90,652)
14(+3) drivers license 763,342 (-87,591)
20(+1) jealousy, jealous 653,815 (-72,050)
24(+3) enough for you 598,611 (-65,590)
31(+4) 1 step forward, 3 steps back 527,475 (-59,333)
42(+2) hope ur ok 450,318 (-48,394)
Total Streams: 10,021,107

Others:
12(+2) Justin Bieber - Peaches 771,315 (-93,304)
13(+5) Drake - Wants and Needs 770,749 (-61,970)
15(+1) Doja Cat - Need to Know 696,083 (-157,266)
16(+3) Glass Animals - Heat Waves 694,636 (-66,532)
18(-3) Megan Thee Stallion - Thot Shit 682,182 (-178,679)
19(-6) Lorde - Solar Power 676,543 (-206,062)
21(+1) Masked Wolf - Astronaut In The Ocean 641,301 (-83,786)
22(+2) Rauw Alejandro - Todo De Ti 622,613 (-93,235)
23(+3) Bruno Mars, Anderson .Paak, Silk Sonic - Leave the Door Open 605,934 (-70,394)
25(+4) WILLOW - t r a n s p a r e n t s o u l 592,171 (-58,471)
27(+3) BTS - Butter 558,804 (-68,256)
29(+2) The Weeknd - Save Your Tears Remix 544,241 (-70,876)
30(+3) Maroon 5 - Beautiful Mistakes 537,904 (-68,786)
33(+1) Billie Eilish - Lost Cause 505,714 (-84,942)
35(+1) Saweetie - Best Friend 495,032 (-74,268)
36(+1) Cardi B - Up 484,642 (-74,812)
37(+2) Giveon - Heartbreak Anniversary 472,881 (-50,081)
39(+3) Trippie Redd - Miss the Rage 456,264 (-45,401)
40(=) Roddy Ricch - Late At Night 453,092 (-57,985)
41(+8) Cochise, $NOT - Tell Em 451,825 (-37,267)
43(+7) Luke Combs - Forever After All 449,583 (-35,517)
44(+2) Kali Uchis - telepatía 445,641 (-44,805)
45(-2) J. Cole - m y . l i f e 440,850 (-58,389)
46(+2) Bella Poarch - Build a Bitch 440,752 (-48,534)
49(+2) J. Cole - p r i d e . i s . t h e . d e v i l 411,857 (-61,503)
55(+5) Lil Baby, Lil Durk - Hats Off 363,378 (-62,410)
57(+8) Lil Tecca - Never Left 354,229 (-47,802)
59(+10) DJ Khaled - EVERY CHANCE I GET 349,330 (-41,107)
62(+15) Bo Burnham - All Eyes On Me 343,909 (-33,098)
65(+13) Marshmello - Leave Before You Love Me 335,376 (-37,355)
66(+14) Bo Burnham - Welcome to the Internet 332,900 (-31,574)
67(+23) Surf Curse - Freaks 327,437 (-21,751)
71(+12) MoneyBagg Yo - Wockesha 318,525 (-36,470)
75(+19) Nelly, Florida Georgia Line - Lil Bit 313,130 (-25,085)
76(+16) The Kid LAROI - WITHOUT YOU 312,549 (-32,782)
79(+42) Jhay Cortez - Christian Dior 305,281 (+9,877)
82(+17) The Weeknd - Save Your Tears 303,185 (-27,466)
83(+6) Nicki Minaj - Seeing Green 302,682 (-46,745)
91(-4) Kelsea Ballerini, LANY - I Quit Drinking 288,780 (-61,790)
100(+17) Bo Burnham - Look Who's Inside Again 275,565 (-28,070)

109(+72) Ast3p - Close to Me 266,130 (+26,376)
108(+4) Los Legendarios, Wisin, Jhay Cortez - Fiel 266,527 (-45,360)
113(+15) Matt Maltese - As the World Caves In 263,263 (-26,474)
123(+13) Chris Young, Kane Brown - Famous Friends 253,774 (-20,419)
124(+15) Ryan Hurd - Chasing After You 253,266 (-19,290)
127(-5) BIA - WHOLE LOTTA MONEY 251,915 (-43,285)
128(+7) Young Stoner Life, Young Thug, Gunna - Ski 251,053 (-27,814)
134(+6) Bo Burnham - Shit 243,410 (-27,783)
135(+6) StarBoi3 - Dick 242,382 (-25,417)
137(+6) Lil Nas X - SUN GOES DOWN 238,484 (-26,288)
143(+1) Billie Eilish - Your Power 236,434 (-28,133)
151(+4) Bo Burnham - Goodbye 228,130 (-30,845)
161(-10) Burnham - Content 222,842 (-37,943)
164(+21) Duncan Laurence - Arcade 220,795 (-15,479)
170(-5) Bo Burnham - That Funny Feeling 218,740 (-32,932)
190(debut) Dylan Scott - Nobody 208,495

Total Streams for Save Your Tears: 847,426

[dremolus - solarpunk]

WILLOW really needs to send transparentsoul to Pop Radio asap
Alt Radio is being bullshit and isn't giving her time to shine, she'll probably do better on pop the same way telepatia did better on pop than on Latin radio

[Groovy]

I was today years old when I found out this Willow y’all are talking about is Will Smith’s daughter.

[nathanalbright]

Some artists wait to get genre support, but that shouldn't hold up Willow. That redemption tour can't wait.

[kindofbiased]

Do we know if this new BTS is like a legit single or just part of the Butter CDs? From what I can tell it’s the latter but maybe I missed something

[gikem]

Jun 14, 2021 10:47:10 GMT -5 Lost In Musical Reverie said:

Jun 13, 2021 18:47:11 GMT -5 atg said:

Imagine trying to shut up a group of people who are clearly fans of your work and only predict what will happen next on your charts. Tell me why we haven’t migrated to Rolling Stone yet..

While Billboard and its current methodology are far from perfect, I'd still take them over the Rolling Stone chart, and I don't understand how some insist it should be used as a superior alternative to measuring popular music. I know radio is often out-of-touch with what's popular on streaming, but like it or not, it's still a significant metric when considering music consumption among all demographics, and it's also a measure of how much the industry is supporting certain artists and genres. For me, it seems like some chart watchers want the charts to fit their vision of what should be popular based on how they consume music.

Even disregarding how they exclude radio, YouTube apparently isn't factored in as well, which makes no sense. And I'm sorry, but it's ridiculous to have songs like "boyfriend", "Hot Girl Summer", "Baby Pluto", "Mr. Right Now", "Anyone", and "i n t e r l u d e" considered #1 hits according to their charts. These really diminish their credibility, even more so than "TROLLZ" (#3 on RS) and "Life Goes On" (#11 on RS, like HGS' #11 on the Hot 100), since at least we have the excuse of mass buying from devoted stans.

Finally, just like the equally flawed UK Charts, the lack of recurrent rules makes their Year-End charts a joke, to put it bluntly. "Wow.", "Ocean Eyes", "Beautiful Crazy", and "Tennessee Whiskey" all made the 2020 Year-End, but songs like "The Bigger Picture", "Break My Heart", and all Luke Combs' proper 2020 singles didn't.

Just some food for thought here. 

Rolling Stone's charts, I feel, are meant to be viewed more on a week-to-week basis and less on a larger perspective the same way you can with Billboard. I personally don't mind the constant turnover at #1 because that's just the way the chart was meant to be interpreted, whereas it's frustrating that Billboard's charts over the past 18 months or so have been losing credibility in terms of what surges to #1 because sales are so heavily weighted and can easily be manipulated. And while I like following along with weekly Year-End predictions for Billboard (and hopefully TOTC will be allowed to continue those when they return, even if in a less detailed format), it's clear that their methodology and time periods for determining those is screwed up (no way Dynamite should be in the top half of the 2021 YE). I find myself coming back to the January-December YE's thread on Pulse more than the ones Billboard has published themselves for that reason.

However, more than both Rolling Stone and Billboard, I do find myself coming back to RDKOfficial's V30 charts on Crownnote these days. I think they've created a perfect balance between song consumption and radio support in their formula, plus adding in a 3-week rule that makes #1 debuts extremely rare.

[nathanalbright]

Jun 14, 2021 11:29:36 GMT -5 Groovy said:

I was today years old when I found out this Willow y’all are talking about is Will Smith’s daughter.

Wait until you find out that she already has a top 20 hit.

[meg]

Jun 14, 2021 11:33:11 GMT -5 kindofbiased said:

Do we know if this new BTS is like a legit single or just part of the Butter CDs? From what I can tell it’s the latter but maybe I missed something

I also think it's a just b-side to the single and will not be on streaming sites. But at the same time it's being released at mindnight in the US. There's gonna be more information in couple of days. But I'm pretty sure it's just gift for fans for Army day on July 9th.

[Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ]

Jun 14, 2021 11:40:12 GMT -5 meg said:

Jun 14, 2021 11:33:11 GMT -5 kindofbiased said:

Do we know if this new BTS is like a legit single or just part of the Butter CDs? From what I can tell it’s the latter but maybe I missed something

But I'm pretty sure it's just gift for fans for Army day on June 9th.

[dremolus - solarpunk]

Jun 14, 2021 11:34:37 GMT -5 nathanalbright said:

Jun 14, 2021 11:29:36 GMT -5 Groovy said:

I was today years old when I found out this Willow y’all are talking about is Will Smith’s daughter.

Wait until you find out that she already has a top 20 hit.

Even more of a wait: y'all should see that Wait a Minute! already has 370M streams on Spotify. She's had a cult following in the alt R&B scene since 2015

[meg]

Jun 14, 2021 11:46:24 GMT -5 Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ said:

Jun 14, 2021 11:40:12 GMT -5 meg said:

But I'm pretty sure it's just gift for fans for Army day on June 9th.

I'm mixing June and July the same way as Tuesday and Thursday. Let me be.

[bbdenney94]

Jun 13, 2021 21:21:46 GMT -5 𝕡𝕙𝕖𝕖𝕓𝕤 said:

I’m kinda grumpy w this whole thing because TOTC does all the chart s**t better than BB, but BB charges me $11 a month while TOTC is free

I’d like BB to take notes from them or even collab on a user-friendly chart search feature??? I don’t know!! I just hate that they shut down a good website to make us pay for their site (which DOESNT WORK btw. Their chart search is SHIT). I’m being forced to switch from Coke to soda water-y Mountain Dew

welcome to monopolistic companies under capitalism, it stinks! 

[thegreatdivine]

Jun 14, 2021 11:29:36 GMT -5 Groovy said:

I was today years old when I found out this Willow y’all are talking about is Will Smith’s daughter.

But you do know that Jaden, the musician, is also Will Smith's child, right?

[Limited Edition]

Jun 14, 2021 10:47:10 GMT -5 Lost In Musical Reverie said:

Jun 13, 2021 18:47:11 GMT -5 atg said:

Imagine trying to shut up a group of people who are clearly fans of your work and only predict what will happen next on your charts. Tell me why we haven’t migrated to Rolling Stone yet..

Finally, just like the equally flawed UK Charts, the lack of recurrent rules makes their Year-End charts a joke, to put it bluntly. "Wow.", "Ocean Eyes", "Beautiful Crazy", and "Tennessee Whiskey" all made the 2020 Year-End, but songs like "The Bigger Picture", "Break My Heart", and all Luke Combs' proper 2020 singles didn't.

I don't see anything wrong with this. If songs like Wow and the rest sold more units in 2020 in the UK than the ones you mentioned, they were indeed bigger and deserve to be on the year-end list. It's basically chart manipulation to exclude songs just because they are older. The only problem with the UK chart is the ACR rule which makes no sense. 

[gikem]

Jun 14, 2021 12:44:52 GMT -5 Limited Edition said:

Jun 14, 2021 10:47:10 GMT -5 Lost In Musical Reverie said:

Finally, just like the equally flawed UK Charts, the lack of recurrent rules makes their Year-End charts a joke, to put it bluntly. "Wow.", "Ocean Eyes", "Beautiful Crazy", and "Tennessee Whiskey" all made the 2020 Year-End, but songs like "The Bigger Picture", "Break My Heart", and all Luke Combs' proper 2020 singles didn't.

I don't see anything wrong with this. If songs like Wow and the rest sold more units in 2020 in the UK than the ones you mentioned, they were indeed bigger and deserve to be on the year-end list. It's basically chart manipulation to exclude songs just because they are older. The only problem with the UK chart is the ACR rule which makes no sense. 

They were talking about Rolling Stone, not the UK Singles chart, though their YEs are somewhat similar in that regard (hi, Mr. Brightside).

Overall, I don't mind the UK charts, but I agree that the ACR and 3-songs-per-artist rules are just weird.

[Lost In Musical Reverie]

Jun 14, 2021 12:44:52 GMT -5 Limited Edition said:

Jun 14, 2021 10:47:10 GMT -5 Lost In Musical Reverie said:

Finally, just like the equally flawed UK Charts, the lack of recurrent rules makes their Year-End charts a joke, to put it bluntly. "Wow.", "Ocean Eyes", "Beautiful Crazy", and "Tennessee Whiskey" all made the 2020 Year-End, but songs like "The Bigger Picture", "Break My Heart", and all Luke Combs' proper 2020 singles didn't.

I don't see anything wrong with this. If songs like Wow and the rest sold more units in 2020 in the UK than the ones you mentioned, they were indeed bigger and deserve to be on the year-end list. It's basically chart manipulation to exclude songs just because they are older. The only problem with the UK chart is the ACR rule which makes no sense. 

I'm referring to the Rolling Stone charts here, so we're talking about the American market, and I struggle to believe "Wow." and "Ocean Eyes" sold more units and got more streams than "The Bigger Picture". This is just wrong. "Break My Heart" was mostly carried by radio, admittedly, but these cases show that completely excluding radio results in some significant omissions from the mainstream music scene of 2020, whereas old songs benefitting from the lack of recurrency can sneak in their place.

You are entitled to your opinion, but for me, recurrent rules are not chart manipulation, but a way to keep the charts fresh and more representative of new music being consumed. Considering the majority of the general population consumes music passively (streaming-wise, by putting a playlist on shuffle), these songs aren't necessarily gaining, but just stagnant due to automatic plays. If an older song is legitimately getting new momentum, they are still able to chart - from "Dreams" to "Alone" and the Christmas songs. But there's no use having a bunch of stagnant stuff taking up space below the top 50. Billboard did great by having a separate Recurrent Chart.

As for the UK Charts, ACR makes no sense, the three-songs-per-artist rule is ridiculous (one you could argue is chart manipulation), and once again, lack of recurrent rules make songs like "Mr. Brightside" and "Perfect" locked to make every single Year-End. It's impressive how they have become recurrent staples among music listeners, but that doesn't mean they should be included in lists meant to represent the biggest hit songs of the year. 

Again, this is just my opinion on it, since I feel certain influencers in the chart watching community have glorified the Rolling Stone charts as a solution to Billboard's flaws, when it's just as, if not much more flawed.

[degen]

Is BTS done releasing remixes titled after Chicken McNugget sauces? Or are we still waiting on a Sweet and Sour remix?

[lurker2]

Is something up with Christian Dior and Close To Me? They aren't charting at all on Apple.

[arg991]

Jun 11, 2021 10:41:28 GMT -5 thegreatdivine said:

Jun 11, 2021 10:40:15 GMT -5 Mayman said:

Oh really? Didn't she just have a #1 single last year? If that's not commercial success, then what is?

When last did she score a solo/lead artist hit? That's probably what that person is referring to.

2008. She only had five top tens in the entire 2010-2019 decade of which only one of them was solo and three of them were her in the featured role.

[Groovy]

Jun 14, 2021 11:34:37 GMT -5 nathanalbright said:

Jun 14, 2021 11:29:36 GMT -5 Groovy said:

I was today years old when I found out this Willow y’all are talking about is Will Smith’s daughter.

Wait until you find out that she already has a top 20 hit.

I already knew this.

[Push The Button]

Billboard’s website fucking blows and it’s real damn sad that they shut down TOTC who actually had a competent algorithm and easily navigable website. They need to take some notes instead of stepping on those who are doing their job better.

[HamedM1 💔]

Billboard really do be a walking fossil these days

[ZERO]

Jun 14, 2021 14:39:25 GMT -5 lurker2 said:

Is something up with Christian Dior and Close To Me? They aren't charting at all on Apple.

"Close to Me" is another one of those botted fodder songs like "Future" and "Big Bros" (both of which are currently charting).

While "Christian Dior" is a legitimate song, I do find it weird that it's not even listed on Kworb's AM list. If I had to guess, it's probably using the same Spotify shenanigans that "911" by Sech used

[Deleted]

I know this has been said before and me saying it again a whole day or two later is not going to change anything overnight (or at all), but I think we as chart watchers just need to have a coming to Jesus moment about how relevant Billboard actually is vs. how much we keep them relevant bc the thought of having to start from scratch somewhere else and leaving behind a bunch of 'historical' data in the process just freaks us out too much.

So with that having been said, I think TOTC should take this time to regroup and rebrand with their own chart system (I believe Soundclock alluded to this a few pages ago). They have an obviously good grasp on all the component numbers for each week, and in all but one instance there'a free and equally accurate alternative to Nielsen/SS data which they can use.* Billboard just owns *their* data sources and their particular way of compiling and presenting them - so honestly eff a prediction, right? Just say 'hey, here's OUR official TOTC chart' and keep it moving. With time they might become a perceived 'legitimate' chart in their own right...shoot, they're probably already a step or two above the Rolling Stone chart at this point. But if nothing else, they'd be a really well-run music account/site and that alone would be worth it IMO.

And I wouldn't be mad at them if they made some of their data subscriber-based and turned it into a real hustle! Billboard charges $11 a month for literally everyone to say their whole site is a buggy and unsearchable piece of trash. I'd have no qualms paying $5 a month for a new site that's starting from the ground up just as a show of support. TOTC built up a following in less than a year just by having well-run social media, accurate and transparent information, and clean presentation. They have the bonus advantage of being in touch with what the majority of hardcore chart nerds actually want to see in an 'accurate' (e.g., don't ditch radio bc that's the main reason people won't gravitate to the RS chart; create different weights for the components to more accurately match how people feel about the relevance of sales/radio/streaming; BE TRANSPARENT with said formula and announce when changes are going to be made before they are made; create a different set of recurrent rules and/or have a separate 'recurrentless' chart; etc.). Why not go for the gamble?

*This is mainly a quandary for a singles chart as I can't think of any other source for single sales, but I'm sure there are ways around this. If TOTC wants to create its own album charts or stats it would probably be best to just use BuzzAngle/HDD, which is typically not far off from the BB 200 except in tight-race situations; for radio they can use Mediabase.

Jun 13, 2021 7:31:59 GMT -5 Enigma. said:

I totally understand it because as far as I know, the Hot 100 is a trademarked product of Billboard and what TOTC has done on their website is a bit grey area publishing extensive content without permission.

I get it but don't get it at the same time.

The purpose of trademark protection is to prevent "unfair competition" by giving the trademark holder a distinguishable business and prevent consumer confusion with other entities. No one looking at TOTC thought that TOTC was Billboard or an official extension of it. And presumably BB still offers things that even TOTC doesn't like access to various genre charts and other historical data. If Billboard genuinely feels it is losing subscribers to the competition that TOTC presents they should consider how much of that loss is really because of TOTC (who clearly weren't trying to pose a threat to BB - their entire reason for existing was because of BB and as far as I could tell, they didn't rely on any paywalled data) and how much is simply because Billboard offers a s**tty product and needs to step its pussy up. It seems the grey is really just "at what point does 'unfair competition' end and 'how long could we continue forcing people to buy into a mediocre, half-assed product if this free site run by some young fans didn't exist and make us actually couble-check and correct our own data before posting s**t' begin?" and it's frustrating. Even the argument that TOTC was posting YE and weekly charts before BB could is kind of shaky to me because everything was billed as a prediction, not official word, and if you're the kind of person who doesn't want to be spoiled then you're free to do the obvious and just not follow TOTC. Clearly, several people prefer to be spoiled.

The 'trade publication' argument I've seen doesn't really hold to me either because the magazine was always available for purchase to the general public, as is the website subscription as well. If BB wants to be a trade-only pub then they need to go the Mediabase route and completely cut off the subscription model to 'regular' consumers, and hike up the price so that only a label or someone else connected to the industry could afford it. The reality is that Billboard has always relied on the interest of 'regular' consumers to stay relevant, and when readership started falling off in the mid 2010s their response was to aim even harder for the lowest common denominator in order to attract chart-obsessed fans. If they want to continue staying relevant to all consumers, cracking down on chart-watching websites while obfuscating formula numbers is not the way to do it. It only furthers the sense of unfairness and distrust that has been growing over the past several years - and I realize there are a lot of older people who don't believe this bc we watched the RS chart launch and immediately go nowhere, but these younger millennial and gen z chart watchers are built different. They WILL find their own thing to follow and let you slowly die out.